The State of Gay TV Today

Jensen: On Brothers & Sisters, the Matthew Rhys and Luke MacFarlane characters are proving that straight women, at least, will watch a romance between two male characters.

Plotnick: It’s two men?

Jensen: Yes, Rhys and MacFarlane’s characters. And they’re in a big ensemble cast, with Sally Field and Calista Flockhart. I initially expected them to be shoved to the background, but they’re really not. There was an episode where all the show’s characters went on this romantic weekend and Kevin [Rhys’ character] and Scotty [MacFarlane’s character] were clear they were going for the exact same reason. … And another episode featured two on-screen kisses between them. In a way, it’s appalling that that should be a big deal, but it is.

Romine: Well, it wasn’t many years ago when the same [type of] episode received a lot of flack for this same thing on thirtysomething. Perhaps the trick now is not to promote it like it is such a big deal.

Plotnick: If thirtysomething wasn’t that long ago, why do I feel so old thinking back on it?

Fuller: It’s true that people do push the scandal button. If you put something out there as scandal-worthy, then you get a big reaction. If you just let it be, then nothing happens.

Jensen: Well, I think it’s noteworthy that fans of the show are really going for this relationship. It feels like a breakthrough to me, and I hope it’s a sign of what could come.

Romine: What Bryan just said about the idea of something being scandal-worthy makes me think of The Book of Daniel. There was all that buildup last year and a lot of button-pushing before the show even aired. [If that hadn’t happened,] the show might have had more of a chance to gain an audience before so many groups started taking whacks at it.

Jensen: Another question I’m interested in asking involves Brothers & Sisters and how it was created by Jon Robin Baitz, an openly gay playwright. And then you have Marco Pennette with Crumbs and then Desperate Housewives with Marc Cherry and The Class [produced by David Crane and Jeffrey Klarik] — all shows featuring gay characters and all created by gay men. Is that what it takes to get gay characters on the air: a gay writer to create them?

Fuller: I don’t know that it’s an absolute. There is that argument, though. Gays and lesbians are at the forefront of having their voices heard. I’m reminded of a story Joel Schumacher told James Burrows about Will & Grace, and the big caution was, “Don’t make America think about anal sex.” So there is that kind of self-censorship. … You can only go so far. If you go too far, people push back and you lose ground.

Romine: I know I mentioned South of Nowhere on The N, which is the Noggin network’s programming for teens. I’m heartened by the fact that the show was created by a straight man who has been doing children’s TV for years and wanted to tell a different kind of story. He saw a need and an audience and took a chance by pitching this show to Viacom about two lesbian teenaged girls. I hope this opened some doors and created the possibility that other creative folks who aren’t necessarily gay [might] make the same kind of effort.

Plotnick: Yeah, it’s strange that a straight man would be interested in lesbians having sex.

[Laughter.]

Fuller: I think some writers — gay or straight — create gay characters because it allows them to write from a unique point of view. Those of us in the industry are always looking for ways to express ourselves through our characters, so it’s natural for somebody who’s straight to look through a gay person’s eyes in order to gain perspective. That, or an older person or a younger person or somebody who is another race. It doesn’t always have the political weight to it, either. Sometimes it just comes to what would be a good story to tell.

Jensen: What about reality shows and the way gays and lesbians are presented there? What’s the upside? The downside?

Fuller: There’s a downside, I suppose, in that reality shows tend to attract big personality types, and in the gay community that translates to stereotypes. And it’s a worry that the tendency might be to increase stereotypes of the gay community, like the queeny guy with the sassy one-liners. Like on Project Runway — and I like that show, but my stomach sank when I saw [the scene where the two contestants] were more or less dishing gossip together, and I felt I was watching the stereotype of the gossipy queen. But then again you look at shows like The Real World, and some of the gay characters have been quite functional and quiet and as normal as their [straight] counterparts.

Jensen: I think it’s interesting when you see how gay people [on reality shows] sometimes compare to their heterosexual counterparts. On Amazing Race, there was a gay couple from New York, and CBS was completely upfront about the relationship. And [the boyfriends] were so great and supportive with each other, especially compared to many of the heterosexual couples. And it was also interesting to see two gay people form such a great relationship with another couple [on the show] from Kentucky, a coal miner and his wife. With everything you’d think about how this rural couple might get along with the gay couple, they turned out to be incredibly great friends. And this was a really interesting thing for middle America to see. So reality television has provided some really positive representation in that sense.

Fuller: People getting along regardless of sexual orientation, people getting along and behaving nicely — that stands out especially because most of the time these people [on reality shows] are behaving badly.