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How has "As The World Turns" handled its gay storyline?And while Logan thinks the show’s producers are nervous about a potential backlash, he also thinks they deserve credit for what they are doing. ”I understand the impatience [of Nuke fans],” Logan said, “but I don't see any reason to blast these folks. I've written about the soaps forever and I see progress being made. I'm encouraged to stick with it. There are a lot of pressures on soaps these days. They are shaky and have to answer to a lot. These are no longer the days where they can do what they please. There is way too much focus groups, way too much research. What they are doing is difficult to do here as opposed to primetime.” Logan added, “The Luke and Noah storyline requires a different handling. ATWT and Guiding Light are considered the most conservative of soaps and more is happening on younger, ballsier shows. That ATWT has it not happening in non-sensationalistic terms is amazing. Chris Goutman who runs the show is a smart cool guy. He's not a jerk and he's very ballsy as a producer. This is not a case of somebody laying down at the command of the networks or Procter & Gamble and doing what they say. I credit him for sticking with it.” Logan noted that the story is still playing out. “This past week it seems like they aren't scared of this storyline,” he said, “but it could be a weird aberration because of the writers’ strike. We’re definitely on to new material and we all know the executive producer is supervising writing.” Logan also said that at the very least ATWT has stuck with their gay character as opposed to General Hospital which introduced a gay character only to then have him be gay-bashed, before simply disappearing. But Logan doesn’t think viewers should expect to see Luke and Noah in bed anytime soon. “We didn't see that with Eden Riegel (Riegel played the lesbian character Bianca on ABC’s All My Children) so I doubt we’ll see it here as that would've been a little more palatable. If we're talking hot steamy bedroom action, will they acknowledge it? It will be a real cheat for the audience if they take it that far and don't show it, but I’m not expecting it.”
When asked about fans’ impatience with the storyline and why they should stick with it, Cahill said, “We hope all our passionate fans stick with As The World Turns because they feel connected to their favorite characters, including Luke and Noah. We appreciate the positive outpouring of support we’ve received from our fans and hope they continue to tune in to watch Luke and Noah deal with love and life as part of the larger community of Oakdale.” What might happen with Nuke’s storyline in the upcoming weeks and will Luke and Noah be allowed to kiss again? Cahill said, “I can’t give away the whole story, but I can tell you that a young woman from Colonel Mayer’s past will come to Oakdale and have a tremendous impact on Luke and Noah’s lives – and no, not in the way you might think! Luke and Noah will grow closer as the three young people deal with love, friendship and prejudice.” Asked if those involved with ATWT ever feel frustrated by the criticism over the Nuke storyline, Cahill said “We have been making groundbreaking television for over fifty years and understand the issues surrounding being ’the first.’ We’ve come to expect that our audience is very passionate about their opinions and devoted to their favorite characters and storylines. We wouldn’t have it any other way.” Is the show missing an opportunity to build on the popularity of Luke and Noah by not featuring them more? Logan pointed out it was hard to say just how popular the couple actually is, especially since Nuke’s fans tend to be more vocal and a larger presence on the Internet, while the show’s hard core audience tends to be older and more conservative. Indeed, Logan thinks that in order to reach out to those more traditional viewers, the writers had Luke’s grandmother Emma specifically react negatively to the boys’ relationship by laying down certain rules when they spent Christmas on the farm. ”I thought it was kind of a swell thing to have the beloved matriarch of the show expressing a pretty obvious display of maybe not homophobia, but discomfort with their relationship. I took it to be the show expressing the other point of view, someone who had been on the show and done and seen it all. It was a little salute to that audience.” According to Logan, the audience is probably more tolerant than they are given credit for as evidenced by the fact that there hasn’t been a mass organized revolt. As to where the storyline will go next, Logan said, “I really don’t know.” But he noted, “The ratings for the show are up. Now they are generally number three in households where a year ago they were number six or seven. And Luke and Noah’s first kiss now has over a million views on YouTube.com. That is not something the show’s producers can ignore. It’s a monster number that fits right in with the network strategy of ‘How do we get the young people hooked?’ That alone could’ve saved the storyline.” Whatever happens next, Logan believes the storyline has already been groundbreaking. “I think it will be looked back on as something pioneering. This is a big deal, a huge thing. However it winds up, it will be a big step. But I get the impatience. I really do.” Submitted by on Tue, 2008-02-12 22:14. |
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Is Brian Cahill a Terminator Robot?
Interesting article.
Interesting article. Michael, as a fellow journalist I sympathize with you; Brian Cahill didn't give you a lot to work with! I'm glad you waited and got comments from Michael Logan, though I certainly hope he's wrong in his pessimism regarding whether we'll ever see Luke and Noah in bed.
The next few weeks will be very interesting. The "young woman from Colonel Mayer's past" is set to arrive on Friday the 22nd; dare we hope that the kiss drought will end before she appears?
It didn't work in the 80's, and it sure as heck doesn't work now
We introduce a gay character so lets just be happy about that? What is this? Dynasty?
Sorry, but this idea of accepting and appreciating mediocrity just doesn't fly anymore. In terms of gay visibility and the treatment of its gay characters, shows like Brothers and Sisters and Degrassi deserve props and accolades. ATWT? Not so much.
I appreciate the article, but all it really did was confirm to me that the boys are being treated differently, and there is no reason to believe it won't change in the future. Which is sad, because a storyline that had so much promise in the beginning has now become a shell of its former self.
OMG!!!!:)
Luke & Noah R.I.P.
M. Jensen, thanks so much for trying to draw blood from a stone. It seems that not even Chinese water torture could have gotten Cahill to deviate from his well-rehearsed mantra about cyclicality, patience, and how well everything is going on ATWT.
To me, the following two quotes say it all:
“Since Luke and Noah became an on-screen couple several months ago, we’ve heard from numerous loyal viewers of the show – many of whom support the storyline and some who do not. We continue to tell Luke and Noah’s story in an authentic way that engages our entire audience. The decision to focus on the mistletoe at the end of that scene was an artistic decision.”
“The vast majority of the feedback we've received about the Luke/Noah storyline has been supportive.”
My conclusion is that “many” (meaning the vast majority) are going to continue getting hosed at the expense of “some” (meaning a few) who do or might object. A Karl Rove-type must be campaigning on behalf of an undetermined minority.
M. Logan’s commentary is usually on the money with little of the butt-kissing is out there. I obviously agree with him about the mistletoe, but disagree with him in that Nuke is somehow being treated as a romantic couple would yesteryear. I’d love to SEE real romance even if Luke and Noah never went all the way ON SCREEN. Meg-like thrusting not required.
I also no longer buy that the show-runners deserve credit for anything except for starting the story. It ends there. While it might indeed be hard to determine the true couple’s popularity based on how vocal apparently Nuke fans are and how we have larger internet presence than non fans, it does not take a rocket scientist to see that the ratings boost (all Nielsen-based) for the show has matched the introduction of the Luke and Noah pairing.
I'd include an Excel spreadsheet, but you can check it out for yourselves. This ratings increase is extremely important as it’s happening at a time when the show is being universally slammed for being in one of its worst creative slumps ever. Longtime fans are disgusted as this character-driven show has become a violent cartoon that is only retro is the hateful way that it is treating its female characters.
New Nuke fans might be unhappy that our guys are rarely on/not getting any, but it does not compare to the frustration vocalized by fans with lifetime investments in characters that are being written into the ground. These are the fans who have been calling for the show-runners canned. While I have watched the show for over 20 years, my gender and sexual orientation make me perceptions/actions less important to the advertisers, but just in case.... Today for the first time since I owned my DVR, I erased the show without even watching a second of it. I also took it off my list of shows to record. Pinky-swear!
I just stopped caring about characters like Carly, Lily, Holden, Jack, and all the old-timers that were such a nice part of my day. Luke and Noah became very important frosting on the cake and, along with the possibility of sneaking a peek at Lucinda, postponed my jumping ship sooner. Part me believes that the show-runners purposely waited months to show Nuke in any capacity to test how faithful the new wider audience would be to the show, even without showing the characters at all. The new fans have turned out to be a faithful bunch and CBS now knows it.
Cahill hopes that “all our passionate fans stick with As The World Turns because they feel connected to their favorite characters, including Luke and Noah. We appreciate the positive outpouring of support we’ve received from our fans and hope they continue to tune in to watch Luke and Noah deal with love and life as part of the larger community of Oakdale.” Not this fan of 20+ years. Reading this interview only makes me feel better about my decision. I don’t want to reward them anymore as they seem to be overjoyed with their ratings bonanza. I am going to try and seek out Nuke episodes to exclusively support them.
Unlike Logan, I think that the show-runners should be blasted in every respect as that is one way to get change, esp. when waiting does not work. I know that many people will disagree with me and are happy to see anything that represents a step forward. It's not like this is Richard Simmons being run down by a car, so I do understand how some are just happy to see anything gay in this genre, esp. more when played by such engaging actors, esp. Van Hansis, who will win an Emmy for his role as Luke Snyder.
Don't give up!
Perhaps I'm an eternal optimist, but I do think we'll see Nuke consummate their relationship; it may not be a Meg/Paul or Chris/Emily type lovemaking, but something has to happen, and TPTB know it.
Also, the last few episodes have been the best for the show in months. Back around late November, I stopped watching the non-Nuke episodes, but this past week and a half I've actually watched every episode through, and Monday and Tuesday's eps this week literally had me on the edge of my seat (props to Mick Hazen, who plays Parker--deserves an Emmy nomination for his work here). Whoever is writing the show now has remembered what it is that us long-time viewers love about ATWT: the interaction of family and friends, of how the community of Oakdale interact with each other. It's really been great. Now, if only they can really commit to Nuke....
Mr. Logan tells it like it
Mr. Logan tells it like it is!
Regarding the Nuke kiss under the mistletoe- the ''artistic reasons'' excuse is hilarious. It's obvious they just didn't want to show them kissing.
Though I have to give ATWT credit the way they have gone with the Nuke storyline. About the physical aspect about their relationship? Not so much.
Great article, Michael!
Could it be more glaringly obvious the difference in tone between the responses by Brian Cahill and Michael Logan? Cahill's answers seem so scripted that he must be quoting directly from the Official ATWT Nuke Media Handbook (tm).
But what's most significant is not what he said but what he DIDN'T say. All protestations aside, ATWT is clearly treating the Nuke storyline differently.
I think Logan hit the nail on the head when he observed that the Nuke storyline is unfolding like the soap romances of the past. To get the older, more conservative fans to accept the relationship, they're using the strategy of kindling a romance to build tolerance. The irony is that by doing things this way for Nuke, it has actually resulted in writing that's superior to anything else on the show.
Btw, Michael, I think you should acknowledge the fact that while Nuke has attracted a lot of gay viewers, there are probably even more fans who are straight women. I don't think gay fans alone could have generated even half of those million-plus views of The Kiss on YouTube.
Nukely-er reaction
And as a straight woman...
...I have to give you the amen to your last phrase...I absolutely love Luke and Noah together, their chemistry is something any hetero on screen couple could envy...and the way Van's portraying Luke is very convincing, i love when his face and eyes are telling more than they should:)And can't wait their love scene...hopefuly will see it soon...yup i'm an incurable romantic and have faith in the american society, a free country where you can be whomever you want to, even gay. Happy Valentine's Day for all!
I knew exactly who I was when I woke up, but since then it seems I've changed...
That was incredibly painful.
uhhhh.....
Second chance...
When I read this last night, I was feeling really disappointed by the non-answers Cahill was giving. I figured maybe I was just tired and cranky and decided to read it again this morning, give it another chance.
I'm still disappointed. And I see everyone else is too.
Bummer.
Nuke Radioactivity is Gone
They have a chance with Nuke
Nuke Half-Life
Guess we're seeing the predictable breakdown of a radioactive element.
The Nuke story started off a lot better than it has become. It has been steadily losing energy the last few months and it's hard to say if they can get it back. The stock answers provided don't really hold up to scrutiny. Also, with the rise of shows like Brothers & Sisters their handling of Nuke on ATWT comes across as frankly rather dated.
Still, I remain convinced that the worry is how Middle American housewives watching during the daytime will view the storyline, rather than the crowd watching at night on TiVo. As much hype as there is around Nuke, and all the hot (but misleading) publicity stills they put out, the are orders of magnitude more tame than comparable gay characters on European soaps.
What about the other demographic?
Demographic Shift
It's often hard for television producers to cope with changes in their viewer demographics, or else to deal with radically different groups at the same time.
Queer as Folk was targeted mainly at younger and middle-aged straight women, with gay men as a secondary target. There was never a strong assumption that older women or straight men would become strong viewers. This is an example of targeting.
ATWT is such an old, established soap that a huge chunk of their audience has been watching it for decades. It's hard to attract a younger audience because there are a lot fewer people that are not working at 2:00pm nowadays. Housewives are less numerous among younger women than in previous generations. And unlike most other shows, soaps generally don't repeat, so your audience is timeslot driven.
The rise of DVR technology has reopened the market and allowed soaps to look for new audiences again. But it's an awkward proposition. The audience they're chasing consists of people who have been watching "mature" shows at night and on premium channels. To people who've been consuming Sex in the City, Nip/Tuck, Brothers & Sisters, Queer as Folk, Six Feet Under and The L Word, traditional soap operas may actually seem a little trite in comparison.
Adapting to that can be challenging, since they still worry about their core audience whom they're not sure can handle radical change. It's not a coincidence that Nuke launched during a Summer season when younger viewers had more time for real-time viewing. But they pushed the limits with a couple of kisses and then withdrew from the edge. Kevin did more kissing in the last episode of B&S than I think Nuke have done in their entire run.
It remains to be seen if P&G will trust their core audience not to abandon the show en masse as they try to appeal to new viewers. Personally I think they have more leeway than they realize.
I would agree with you if they were sticking to tradition
Core traditional viewers don't enjoy all this talk of Sam the ventriloquist and Kit taking their puppet to bed, or having beloved characters (Kim, Jessica, Lisa, John, Nancy, Susan, Barbara, Lucinda) disappear for months/years, only to have them replaced by a "youth" movement (Sofie, Aaron, Ali, Cole, Casey, Bonnie, Dallas, Chris) that is lacking in acting shops, connection to the show, and living their lives around how to have/sell/steal/find babies. We don't want our larger than life heroines (Carly, Barbara, Rosanna) being beaten down by all the men on the show for having opinions. Core fans grew up with families holding up the fort, a mixture of fantasy and real women who men fought for, adventure, romance, and a short-hand of sorts.
I bring this up because no matter how they frame it, the show has already put that audience aside, hoping that it will hang on as they chase the "kids" with cartoonish plot-driven stories, stock characters that come and go (murdered or fired), and a fast pace focusing on self-contained episodes. Daytime, even more than primetime, prizes women 18-34 and then there are even single digit ages that interest them more than their core audience or men. The show has fully embraced the internet with their InTurn contest.
I am not a fan of the reinvention, but it's working for them big time as they are not bleeding viewers the way all other daytime shows are. Part of that is based on Nuke-bassed. If there is room for Katie and Brad to hump on command, for Emily to play Lolita (little girl dress, pigtails and all) for bucks and to be shown beaten raw by a john, there is room for one of the show's biggest draws to be a part of the mess. Maybe we're lucky that they are not.
I am glad that these guys managed to exist in this new reinvented show, and give us a kiss and a towel dance that I'll never forget. I'd love to see Van Hansis become the next Leonardo Dicaprio. No one could argue that doing daytime in 2008 is hard, as no one seems happy and there are less viewers every day; however there is still much money to be made and the showrunners are trying to figure out how to generate as much of it as possible. I don't blame then for that. They are doing something right as they keep managed to keep enough core viewers with show (maybe out of habit) and bring in new viewers with nutty tales, a couple of gay guys, and a factory-line attitude that seems to throw enough crap against the wall for enough of it to stick, if only for one episode.
I am not sure if this can last, but they are much brighter than I am. What I can't stand is the excuse that they are somehow being mindful of core viewers anytime that they don't proceed with something. Core fans and Nuke fans want both want romance and old fashioned story-telling for their favorite characters. I am not sure if that can work anymore but we'll never find out as none of the remaning shows is going to take that step back. The future of daytime is here so I'll watch from afar out of curiosity.
My How Things Have Changed
I have fond memories from the late 70's and early 80's of running home from school to watch General Hospital. In the summer it was worse--I'd start at 12:30 p.m. with Ryan's Hope and work my way through AMC, OLTL, finally GH.
But I have to wonder what my reaction would have been at 14 if I'd been watching GH and two hot young guys suddenly grabbed each other for some wet, sloppy spit swappin'. I suspect my mother would have come home and found nothing but a puddle on the couch where I'd been sitting.
I'm sorry the Luke/Noah story line seem to be left out to dry but I hope that young GLBT kids today can take solace from the fact that the media offers so much proof that yes, there are indeed other people out there just like they are.
Mikey
Pffffffffffffft...
What a load of crappy answers! "Cowards" that's the word! So weird this tip-toeing around this issue. What Is The Big Deal? Someone mentioned soaps in Europe - there is one German series (Marienhof) who recently showed a gay couple (coming-out story) where the viewer could see very hot hot scenes between the two guys. Grant you, the storyline has come to an end now (one guy left the show, the other one - who came out - is now back to being his usual self (which does not mean hetero, I hope), acting like nothing big at all just happened in his life..) and the soap is also not as old as ATWT and has a much younger fan-base, I'm guessing. But the show had other same-sex couples in the past and was never shying away from showing same-sex interaction, if you know what I mean.
Then there is another German series (Verboten Liebe - Forbidden Love) that has a recurrent gay character. The current storyline involves Olli who has fallen for his 'straight' flatmate, who in turn, is in the middle of finding out, that he is not quite that straight.. They have already shown kisses between the two (even a camp fire scene with very very obvious and similar music to Brokeback Mountain) [side-note: one thing that bugs me immensly about Olli though, is that the actor who portrays him, is crap! - but I watch anyway.. :o]. And there are more series in Europe, without scenes that for artistic-driven purposes.. show mistletoe instead of a kiss (and more) between gay characters.
I had never heard of ATWT until last summer or so, when I read about Luke and Noah somewhere on the net. I live in Europe and don't have ABC, but gawd was I glad to be able to watch the NUKE clips on YouTube! I've stopped watching them though, because of mistletoe-moments. I haven't even seen that bit (only read about it here) and don't want to watch it - the frustration would be too big! In any case, I really like both actors. They are fantastic and I hope that bigger things on tv or the big screen awaits them both!
BTW, if the NUKE kisses have reached 1.000.000+ views on YouTube that's only natural! I mean, every NUKE fan is craving for more in every episode of ATWT and since that's not happening, we watch the YouTube clips. Over and over!
You can watch some excerpts of Marienhof here (careful, cheezy music.. ): www.myvideo.de/watch/2424063 and www.myvideo.de/watch/2459137.
R.I.P. - Heath Ledger [1979 - 2008] - in my heart forever!
Cahill and Logan
After reading the article I'm really annoyed with Brian T. Cahill's "answers". That "artistic decision" nonsense was the kind of response that a corrupt stonewalling politician would give. Insulting to any thinking, honest person.
Michael Logan wasn't much better. His comments started off well but degenerated from there. I don't for a second fall for Logan's retro romance theory of why Luke & Noah are being treated differently, how fans should be patient because "the Luke and Noah storyline requires a different handling" as he put it. The fact is the Luke & Noah storyline is being treated differently simply because they are gay.
Cahill and Logan should be ashamed of themselves.
Wimp out on the Valentine's Day Episode
Bull****
Bull***t!(pardon my french)
"You bit the hand, Marty, You bit the hand!"
Most unsatisfying Valentine's Day episode
Watch out for the gal!
St. Patrick's Day
Guys,
For all you guys out there that are soooooooo offended by the current and blatantly anti-gay s/l of Luke & Noah...Happy St. Patrick's Day!!! (see weblink below)
http://aastwo.blogspot.com/2008/03/aas-fit-lads-100-kisses-from-man-to-man.html
ENJOY!!!!!
Amadeus27