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News, Reviews & Commentary on Gay and Bisexual Men in Entertainment and the Media

Survival of the Fab-est: How Gay TV Characters Evolve

Given this tendency, it’s all the more remarkable that TV’s reigning gay assistants, Entourage’s Lloyd (Rex Lee) and Ugly Betty’s Marc (Michael Urie), have been able to claw their way out of the shadows of the terrifying, predatory overlords they serve. Both are at the beck and call of tyrannical, egomaniacal bosses who boom out orders. But they’re hardly eclipsed by them, and they’ve quickly emerged as figures of interest in their own right, with their own voices, points of view, and as we’ve recently learned, none-too-shabby love lives, including Marc’s very own Cliff.

Which brings us full circle of life back to the beginning …Homo Sloppian.

In conceiving of a boyfriend for Ugly Betty’s très fabulous Marc, the show’s writers clearly went for his polar opposite, a scenario that naturally led to various comic and dramatic developments. In this sense, there’s nothing new here. The “opposites attract” storyline dates back even earlier than the days when TVs had rabbit ears and dials. Except, of course, the opposites attracting were always of the opposite sex.

But average-guy Cliff (David Blue) not only directly contrasted Marc, he also humanized him, teaching this fashionista/bitchy queen that there’s more to life than perfect abs and Versace pants. But what made him such an important evolutionary step forward was that Marc’s efforts to change him in response were kept to a bare minimum.

Contrast this with an early appearance of the Homo Sloppian on a 2003 episode of Will & Grace titled “Fagmalion,” which depicted Will and Jack’s efforts to makeover a shlub named Barry (Dan Futterman), forcing him to undergo crash diets and cosmetic surgery until he emerged hot enough for them both to desire. On Betty, Cliff’s makeover moment came at his own instigation and involved nothing more severe than a new suit and haircut. As appropriate for a show whose great theme is the importance of being true to oneself, Ugly Betty enables the Homo Sloppian to assert himself exactly as who he is.

This is not just a step forward for the Gay Shlub, but for gay character types in general, one that doesn’t reflect long-standing stereotypes or negative characteristics, who is particularly comfortable in his own skin. Let’s just hope that, like such mythological TV creatures as talking horses, variety show performers, and sassy maids, he’s not destined for extinction.

And let’s also hope we’re soon introduced to even more new types of Televisia Gayguyus for future TVologists to unveil, and that the pinnacle of evolution ultimately rises higher than the couch.

Bobbyjoe's picture

Spin City's Carter Heywood.

Great article, though I have to admit I disagree with putting Spin City's Carter Heywood (Michael Boatman) under the category of "Barely There" gays. Carter was a prominent character throughout the show's run, and, in fact, the pilot episode is basically centered around Carter's presence as a gay man working for the Mayor (watch it and see). The character wasn't like NYPD Blue's John Irvin, who was lucky to get a line other than "Detective, phone call on line four" every seven episodes or so.

Carter plays as much a role on Spin City in pretty much every episode as anyone else in the main cast, short of the show's star, Michael J. Fox. As played by Michael Boatman, Carter is, at once, a non-stereotypical character (i.e., not the usual flamboyant queen we saw so much of at the time), but he also didn't play the character as just a straight man with the label "gay." (And don't forget the moment when Carter is literally swept off his feet by Lou Diamond Phillips in his navy uniform, in an homage to "An Officer and a Gentleman.") I sometimes wonder if the show (and Boatman) get enough credit for how grondbreaking the role was, compared to everything else on the air for the major networks at that time.

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netogeno's picture

I am inclined to agree with

I am inclined to agree with Bobbyjoe on Carter Heywood. Good article, very interesting read this one.
Jeremymlad's picture

A Spot of Praise

Ok, this is fantastic writing, and jewels like this is why I keep coming back to this site. Well put together, and it made me think and smile. Thanks.
Frank's picture

Great article

What I love about gay characters like Kevin (Brothers & Sisters) is that they are just like any other guy. I especially love his sarcastic remarks. I'm so tired of shows portraying gays as effeminate, artistic, whatever (even though I love effeminate guys). I mean, I'm a normal guy. I like cars, sports, computers, and I don't like shopping or decorating. I'm usually wearing jeans, sweaters/t-shirts and sneakers, and I even like women. I just fall in love with guys, and I like having sex with them. I tend to think that this is pretty much all that distinguishes me from straight guys.
Psionycx's picture

An Interesting Thing...

An interesting thing about this is that you group some of these characters by their relationship to straight characters in their shows rather than by their own attributes.

For example, while Jodie Dallas and Steven Carrington are indeed "problem sons", all other resemblence ends there. Jodie played to virtually every gay stereotype available to the writers at the time (for obvious reasons they couldn't show onscreen sexual promiscuity). Steven however exhibited virtually no stereotypes.

Yes, he was a model-handsome fashion plate, but so were the straight men on Dynasty. But he was never effeminate, or shown to be a sissy. Indeed, he was perfectly willing to get into all out brawls with other characters, usually his brother Adam, but also his future partner Bart.

The irony being that, while Steven is commonly derided mostly because of his two (failed) attempts at hetero marital bliss, he was a significant advance in gay depiction on TV in that he was a gay man who was not shown as being less "masculine" than the straight male characters on his show.

We lost this for more than a decade after that, and even in recent years the closest parallels were either violent killers (as on Oz) or our first action hero Captain Jack on Torchwood, whose bisexuality is seemingly there to make him just a tad more "butch" for straight audiences (although virtually all gay male and straight female viewers would be fine if he were exclusively with Ianto).

Much as I love Kevin on Brothers & Sisters, I do feel that he is depicted as being the least "manly" of his brothers (and possibly less than Kitty, or especially Sarah!). 

While the gay schlub is a victory of sorts I would like to see more strong (non-psychotic) gay men on TV.  It still feels like we are generally depicted as inferior to straight men.

Great article!

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kevinfan's picture

Re: An Interesting Thing...

Quote:
Much as I love Kevin on Brothers & Sisters, I do feel that he is depicted as being the least "manly" of his brothers (and possibly less than Kitty, or especially Sarah!). 

This only becomes a problem if Kevin's non-masculine traits are treated as somehow inferior.  But IMO they're not.  He's a successful lawyer and is depicted as no less strong or effective a person than his brothers (and in some areas, stronger).  Take that great scene a few eps back where Kevin had to use his mediation "skills" to forge a truce between Tommy and Justin.  It was Kevin who held the power there.

Psionycx's picture

The stereotype reasserts itself

To me it matters because one thing we are definitely seeing the resurgence of on TV is the idea that gay men are basically women in male bodies.  We're depicted as creatures of language, thought and creativity.  At the same time we're depicted as incapable of handling anything more mechanical than a cell phone, are always seen as physically inferior to "real" men and are all too often the sidekicks/support mechanisms of female characters, and now male ones too.

Kevin is a great character don't get me wrong.  I'm glad to see a gay man with a reasonable life on TV.  But he's also his family's tool.  The scene you cite was a great one, but his success in handling his brothers had more to do with the threat of Nora getting into their conflict over the blonde bimbo than Kevin's forceful personality.  In fact, I'm often astonished that he, a successful lawyer, fails to have comebacks for most of the bullshit thrown his way, especially in political disputes with Kitty and Robert.  Also, it's been made a running joke in the show that Kevin is (surprise) technically inept (for example, cracking his overheated radiator by pouring Evian into it).

He's consistently shown as less masculine than his brothers (and at least one of his sisters, possibly both).  To some extent I think that this is meant to reassure the audience that he really is gay.  This is in many ways similar to how Will grew progressively more stereotypical on Will & Grace, as if they felt that they needed to underline his gayness by undermining his masculinity so that the audience would get that he was gay and wouldn't be marrying Grace no matter how many seasons the show ran.

Add in the proliferation of gay "sidekick" characters and we really are being depicted more as a lifestyle accessory than anything else on TV nowadays.

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kevinfan's picture

Re: Kevin

Quote:
The scene you cite was a great one, but his success in handling his brothers had more to do with the threat of Nora getting into their conflict over the blonde bimbo than Kevin's forceful personality.

Actually, he did it because Sarah pleaded with him to do it--as usual, Kevin's the one sought out when there's problem because he can be relied upn to get things done.  Here again, he was instrumental in trying to save face around their mom. 

Quote:
He's consistently shown as less masculine than his brothers (and at least one of his sisters, possibly both). 

Really?  Because most people I know who watch the show have commented on how masculine Kevin is.  Because generally speaking, he does not conform to most stereotypes.  He can take control when needed, doesn't back down when the argument is important, and is generally speaking self-assured person.  (Though let's not get into his romantic life, LOL)

And I think you take things too far when you essentially require that Kevin not have any stereotypical traits, no matter how truthful they may be.  So he doesn't particularly like football and he's not great at mechnical things.  Neither am I.  On the whole, he comes across as a real person, with most of his traits actually not conforming to stereotypes.

I don't want gay characters to be stereotypical caricatures.  But at the same time, I don't want gay characters to be absolutely devoid of any traits that could possibly be seen as conforming with some stereotype of gay men.  A balance must be struck, or else we'll be seeing characters on TV who call themselves gay, but who (in my personal experience) don't resemble any of the gay man I know, even as diverse as they are.

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Psionycx's picture

Kevin the victim

kevinfan, you do realize that you're only reinforcing my point right?

Kevin is consistently depicted as being enslaved to the unceasing demands of his family more than any other character on the show, including even Nora!  Once you subtract the amount of time he spends solving his siblings' and mother's problems he only barely has a life of his own, which is pretty consistent with the popular depiction of gays existing to serve the needs of straight people requiring docile but capable helpers to make their lives work.

Given that we have an over-abundance of characters on TV right now with stereotypical gay traits I don't think that I'm out of line in wanting one that doesn't conform to stereotypical notions of what a gay man should be.  There's a question of balance to consider here after all.

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kevinfan's picture

Re: Kevin

Quote:
Once you subtract the amount of time he spends solving his siblings' and mother's problems he only barely has a life of his own,

Conistently enslaved?  Barely has a life of his own?  We must be watching a different show, because of the one I saw, the lion's share of his screentime this season has been devoted to his romantic life and trials (so much so that many viewers I know want to see less of his romantic life and more of his career).  Yes, he helped Sarah out with her divorce and yes he helped Justin shortly after he returned with his war injury.  IMO that makes him a good and compassionate brother, not a weakling only serving the straights as you describe.  (And all the family members help each other out in various ways, Nora easily being the most prominent in this regard.  Kevin doesn't hold a candle to her in terms of tending to the needs of the family.)

Again, if you polled viewers of the show, I would bet you good money that most would agree that Kevin (as a whole) is a decidedly unstereotypical gay character.  I have very little doubt about that...but I understand your mileage may vary.

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Dennis's picture

An Intresting Thing

I agree with you on most points. I personally am not an effamanite man, I usually wear jeans, and t-shirts, or in the summer go barefoot in shorts or wear flip flops, fasion be damed. What most people don't know is that all of gay society is not found in gay bars where all the pretty boys are, being swishy or macho, whichever they think fits them, there are gay people who seldom go to gay bars and don't try to fit the sterotypes that gay men there impose on themselves.

Your point about Jodie was perfect, I don't think the producers of Soap missed a stero-type. I'm more of a Stephen myself, I've been in fights, I don't back down from assholes who want to play fag baiting. ( of course, I'm not near as good looking, lol).

I think what you left out was the way the two charachters played off the rest of the cast. Jodie, for instance, would drop in a lin in conversation that his sister was too picky and he'd take her BF if she couldn't appreciate him.

Anyway, I alway's enjoy reading you comments, keep up the good work.

Dennis

Jacob's picture

Excellent list, and I think

Excellent list, and I think the best part is the growing number of characters with no room on the list for inclusion. I love looking at how far we've come, even if we have a long ways still to go. Speaking as a self-identified gay schlub following the mold of Frank and Steve from the Sarah Silverman show, w00t.
David Ehrenstein's picture

Quite true, Kevinfan.

It's pretty obvious that the Walker family would totally collapse without Kevin. He's the first person any one of the turns to in a crisis. And when it comes to gay assistants, don't forget the Beyond Fabulous Alec Mapa in just about anything. I've never seen an actor who enjoyed being typecast more than he does.
Argiebear's picture

Homo Sloppian!

Great analysis. As a full blown Homo Sloppian ( love the name ), I welcome the appearance of Cliff and the Orange Guys in the SSP. What I wonder is what their reception has been in the straight watching community? Do they find them more threatening? Less threatening? I'd love to pull a Nielsen on the subject. One other thing about Cliff ( and Marc, and Alexis ) is that he's on a top network, 8PM slot show for all ages, which I think it's also a first of sorts.
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Alex Sarmiento's picture

Gay men are NOT accessories, and should not be viewed as such.

Someone had it right when they said that gay men were being treated as accessories. I personally would be offended if I were treated like that. I am NOT a fashion accessory. I am not something to be fucked with, worn around the neck like a pashmina, or flaunted like the hottest clothing from Milan.I would love to see the day, hopefully during this lifetime, that a gay man can be portrayed on American network television, in a significant role, as a fundamentally good person with a strong personality, a few flaws here and there, and a good sense of self without coming across as bitchy, demanding, demonstrative, stereotypical in any extreme, and a joke.
Curtis's picture

CAMERA......ACTIONS........I FORGOT MY LIFE

The bad thing is just the fact that many gay characters and gay storylines on tv and in movies start off being a concept, an ideal. When you have to work a gay character in or add one to an already up and running show, it can be a bit difficult or at least I heard. As gay people we are truly everywhere and come in many shades, shapes and sizes. Some of us are very complexed and intriguing in everyway, others are just your average 9 to 5 people, trying to raise families and live the best live we can lead. We are rich and live the glamorous live and others are poor like myself and live paycheck to paycheck. One thing that we all share is the universal theme and that shouldn't be too hard to conceptualize and that is freedom to be ourselves and love the people we love. I used to sit back and think that it was the writers fault for characters not be gay to my standards, liking or my needs. I know better now and would quickly change my entire tune or the song. It not only takes the writers, that should create a script and dialogue from a place that is personal but the actor(s) as well. The script can actually be lousy but if the actor breathes life into the role where it's believable than it's a win-win situation. Sean Haynes(Jack)on W&G played that character to the hilt and the good and bad part is, he might have type-cast himself for life. He played it so well that it's at least hard for me to see him doing anything else but Just Jack. There was a little watched show on Logo called "Noah's Arc" and many of those characters were played with the same intensity, where you couldn't tell if they were acting or being serious. I know that I appreciate and respect actors, writers and shows/movies that are willing to go the extra mile, to give gay persons a voice and making us more visible and more for real. If you haven't noticed but for a very long while on the screen gay people have almost been reduced to a really good dream, that you don't want to ever wake up from or a really bad one that borders a nightmare. I have to say thank God for Logo because there are many shows, documentaries and movies that I would have never been able to come across or have access to. Many of my gay peers are fickle and won't sit back and watch something just because it's has gay characters or a gay theme. To me, that is even more reason to watch and to find something about the story or about the character, that I can relate to or get something out of it. All the shows or movies might not be likable characters or a great story but there is something magical about finally being visible and recognized in cinema. That alone just seems even more important than just saying something was horrible and unwatchable.
pundit's picture

Ianto?

Can we discuss Ianto please? Previously deeply in love with a woman, we all know he's "dabbling" (his word) with Jack and exploring a seemingly new sexual world with which he is not always comfortable (Ianto was very stiff -NO PUN INTENDED!! during last night's slow dance) especially with other people's knowledge of it. Do you see him as bisexual, previously repressed, gay & out, or gay & closeted except to his co-workers?Furthermore, how do you see Jack's role in Ianto's new sexuality? Jack initiated all the kisses until ep 2:03. Do you think he took advantage of Ianto's gratitude for being allowed to stay at TW? Remember, after snogging him back to life, Jack was ready to shoot him if Ianto didn't take out cyberLisa. So at that point I don't think you could say Jack was trying to start a relationship with him. So where does Ianto fit into the gay character family tree? Furthermore, do you see/believe Ianto will continue dating men when Jack breaks his heart? IMO if TW continues the writers will asked to put Jack w/ one or more women, just to keep the pan in pansexual. "Oh, you said antioxident! I thought you said antiDachshund!!
Psionycx's picture

Ianto

Well, I think that for starters Ianto sits firmly in the bisexual camp, as do most of the Torchwood Three team with the exception of Gwen.

Ianto is a very private person by nature, and he went through a rather traumatic period after Canary Wharf with what happened to Lisa, and Jack's admittedly heavy-handed method of dealing with the situation when Lisa's cyberman programming took over.  But I think that Jack, enraged as he was at the time, understands the idea of doing crazy things for love and as early as 1:05 was starting to reach out to Ianto again.  It's worth noting that in 1:08 it was Ianto who propositioned Jack.

I think that Ianto is definitely falling in love with Jack, and as of 2:09 is beginning to be possessive of him.  Jack's feelings are unclear.  He definitely seems to care for Ianto and has indirectly said he loves him.  But Jack also has a (still unexplained) thing for Gwen.  He's also promiscuous in general so it's not really clear that he would be 100% faithful to anyone.

From Ianto's point of view Jack fulfills a number of needs.  He's a very talented sexual partner, which Ianto has admitted to Martha.  Ianto's also a bit of a follower by nature and Jack provides a focus for his adoration.  Plus, as has been discussed amongst the team before, dating is very difficult working for Torchwood and being with Jack neatly side-steps the issue.  Finally, he and Jack have great chemistry together just watching their scenes (which is why Gwen remains inexplicable because she and Jack don't).

Will Jack be faithful?  Probably not.  Will Ianto continue to swing both ways?  Probably.

Dan's picture

Ianto

When you see 2:11 it may change some of your perceptions about Jack and Ianto's relationship.  I think they really do work best together and it is spparent from this episode, which shows their first intial meetings, there was chemistry right away.  I think there is a lot more we don't get to see sadly.  But in the last few episodes there seems to be more to Ianto than meets the eye.

Ihave always felt that Jack does want to settle down for a change.  He even said to Ianto that he wants to stay here in this time in this place.  So I guess we'll see.  

pundit's picture

Ianto v. Gwen & chemistry

I hate to be the bearer of bad news to this board, but on straight forums plenty of women see LOTS of chemistry between Jack & Gwen. They don't mind seeing him w/ Ianto (who would?) but can see what's left unsaid btwn Jack & Gwen. Eve Myles says as much in TW confidential. The writers are putting sexual tension in deliberatly. Gay men might not see it; may not want to see it, but as a straight woman I'm telling you it's there!And why not? As a pansexual he is/should be charming, attractive to and attractED to both sexes. As evidenced by the closing scene of 2.09 Jack has been married and is familiar with the problems of mixed im/mortalmarriages so I don't see Janto as a long term pairing. As a writer I can't see writing my most interesting character into a box. Of course what the TW writers will do is unknown. Although the TWMag #2 confirmed on thing I'd posited. The writers do write independently which explains many of the inconsistancies. "Oh, you said antioxident! I thought you said antiDachshund!!
Sizequeen's picture

Ianto's Is No Fool

I actually don't think that Tosh, Owen and Gwen are bisexual.  The time that we've seen Gwen and Tosh with women, they were under alien iunfluence.  The time that Owen was kissed by a man, that man was also uder alien influence, and Owen did not return the kiss.  Otherwise, all of their interactions have been entirely straight. I mean, it's hard to imagine that Jack recruited the team based on sexual preference.

 Ianto may be bisexual, but he may also be under the influence of Jack.  I think that Jack could make Pat Buchanon question his sexuality.

 I do think that people underestimate Ianto.  Some seem to think Ianto is some porr woobie whose being used by Jack, and that jack really loves Gwen.  Yet, I've never seen Ianto express one whit of jealousy towards Gwen.  All through the season, he has been friendly to her.  Ianto knows where he stands with Jack, knows that jack has feelings for Gwen, and seems comfortable in their relationship.

 I also think that the idea of Ianto being used underestimates Jack.  Jack does not strike me as a cold hearted seducer.  In fact, it's the warmth, compassion, and joyfulness of his sexuality makes his sluttishness adorable.  I think that Jack cares for Ianto deeply, and he may or may not be amenable to monogamy, but so far, I haven't gotten the sense that is one of Ianto's demands.

 Now that Gwen has firmly chosen Rhys, I doubt that Jack will do anything to harm that relationship.  I do wish, though, that Jack would clearly choose Ianto and plainly express how he feels for Ianto.

 

dkellergrl2001's picture

A Different POV from another straight female viewer

I hate to be the bearer of bad news to this board, but on straight forums plenty of women see LOTS of chemistry between Jack & Gwen. They don't mind seeing him w/ Ianto (who would?) but can see what's left unsaid btwn Jack & Gwen. Eve Myles says as much in TW confidential. The writers are putting sexual tension in deliberatly. Gay men might not see it; may not want to see it, but as a straight woman I'm telling you it's there!And why not? As a pansexual he is/should be charming, attractive to and attractED to both sexes. As evidenced by the closing scene of 2.09 Jack has been married and is familiar with the problems of mixed im/mortalmarriages so I don't see Janto as a long term pairing. As a writer I can't see writing my most interesting character into a box. Of course what the TW writers will do is unknown. Although the TWMag #2 confirmed on thing I'd posited. The writers do write independently which explains many of the inconsistancies. "Oh, you said antioxident! I thought you said antiDachshund!!

Yes, Jack IS a bisexual, but I see it as the writers trying to placate some of the female audience who need to see Jack pining over a female character (ie Gwen) in order to make sure that they don't offend that demographic. Not for nothing, Gwen is supposed to be the "everyday person" the "one" who "humanizes" Jack, but what about Owen, Tosh and Ianto? Don't they also "humanize" him? They have an affect on him as well, so for this viewer, it isn't "All About Gwen".

Especially when Gwen already has someone in her life. Her husband, Rhys, who's been lied to, cheated on, accidentially killed, revived and belittled by the one person he's been in love with, since she's been associated with Torchwood. At least in this season, the writers, have made Gwen aware of what she could have lost (a life with Rhys) with her own obession over Jack.

Psionycx's picture

The thing with Gwen

Is that when it's there it's there very strong.  But most of the time it's just not there.  Gwen is merely wrapped up in her own problems or else her current personal crusade.  She's the least interactive of the characters on the team.  That's why I say that the chemistry between her and Jack is inexplicable.  With Ianto and Jack it's there pretty much all of the time as an undercurrent to their whole interaction with one another.  But there are a lot of times when it seems like Gwen is barely even aware that Jack is there unless he stops her from doing something she wants to.  Then again, that's how she is with the entire team.

Personally I've felt better chemistry between Jack and Tosh than between Jack and Gwen.  But that may be because I find Tosh a more generally sympathetic character than I do Gwen.  But Tosh's interactions with Jack have a more intimate feeling. But I guess the writers figured that Gwen was a plucky sort of girl like Rose and that they wanted to see if they could get the same sort of effect.

Maybe Jack just likes the way Gwen is always arguing with him?  Either way, I still see him more as being in a threeway with Ianto and Martha than in any kind of relationship with Gwen.

Janet's picture

The Jack/Tosh chemistry....

....I only really noticed in episode 1.12. It was clearly there as they were depending on each other for so much and Tosh took the opportunity to learn more about what makes Jack tick. Also, the tears in her eyes as she watched the Jack/Jack dance were real as revealed by Naoko in Declassified. I've never really felt anything other than a boss/employee relationship between them in any other episodes.

And like I said, the chemistry between Jack and Gwen does not feel sexual but more like kinship of a certain type, like they recognize certain traits in each other, that remind them of themselves. That in turn breeds a closeness. Of course not every show bothers to indicate this because I don't believe it is really meant to be all that relevant in the long run. I do believe the writers have been swayed by rampant fandom begging for the Ianto/Jack romance. I also think they are not going to give the fans everything they want. Unless all the fans want is nooky between them.

I'm actually liking the direction they are going with Ianto, as he is not all that he seems. He is getting very interesting, but I think it would wreck it if he shows weakness by falling in love with Jack. He is very possessive of Jack and that may even tip over into obsessiveness. Which, if true, Jack's flings with others would drive him nuts.

Frankly, the thought of Jack with a woman doesn't ring true for me. And I think that it would feel contrived. But that could be just because we all know John so well! I seen far too many talk shows!

 

I say we take the warning labels off everything and let nature take it's course.

pundit's picture

Gwen's Role at Torchwood

According to RTD the part of Gwen was written to be 'everyman's insight into the "reality" of the changes coming in the 21st century. The other team members represented specific "types" (computer geek, egocentric doctor, coffee boy). Do you remember ep 1.02 when the team discusses Jack's sexual orientation? Tosh says he's straight; Owen says he's gay; and Ianto says it doesn't matter. At the time I thought it was the writer's way of presenting the audiences 3 possible takes on Jack and each stereotyped character gave the predictable response. If Owen had said it didn't matter, I wouldn't have believed him. I have always responded to Ianto because of that response because it was *my* response. I have nothing in common with Tosh or Owen and have often wished their characters would get written off. Can you imagine my disappointment when Owen died and is *still* there? Grrrrr. Perhaps the role of Gwen is now to keep the straight close minded women watching (and open their eyes a bit by her acceptance of Janto) while still caring more than she should for Jack. She's being developed by committee and interpreted by an actress with her own thoughts on the part. We the dience can only react to what we're given.
Sizequeen's picture

Loev Triangles and Straight Girls on Torchwood

I don't think that Jack's relationship with Gwem is designed to placate anyone. It has been shown in shows like Queer as Folk that straight women gravitate towards shows that portray gay relationships. 

 In addition, making Jack fall in love with a woman is just as true to his character as having him fall for a man-- he is, to use a 21st century term, bisexual. 

Let's look at the relationships on Torchwood.  Ianto loves Lisa and (at least) cares for Jack.  Jack loves Gwen and Ianto.  Gwen loves Rhys and Jack.  Tosh cares for Frozen Tommy and loves Owen. Creating an entirely jealousy-free triangle between Jack, Gwen and Ianto creates a complexity of characterization that is entirely Torchwood.

Janet's picture

Ianto, etc.....possible spoilers...

Well, I've just watched ep. 12 and I still agree with Psionycx's assessment of Ianto and Jack except for the confusion over the Jack and Gwen friendship. I do think they have chemistry, just not sexual chemistry. I think it's a deeper understanding of each other's motives and or maybe just a desire for that understanding by both of them. Ianto has always seemed to be a "boy friday" but I think that is a ruse as was shown in ep. 11 by his going behind Jack's back. Without giving anything away, you will see in ep. 12 that Ianto is an instigator. He is motivated by a private agenda and so ultimately, still waters run deep. Jack is being led by his sexual desires as he seems unable to control his attraction to anything and everyone. To him, it's all a game. But to Ianto, it's something else.

 

 

I say we take the warning labels off everything and let nature take it's course.

daniel82's picture

One thing about Jodie Dallas...

Though I agree with the statement that "Soap"'s Jodie was drawn a bit too broadly, virtually all of the show's characters were drawn broadly, given a host of oddball character quirks in order to maximize the comedy potential. I mean, in the opening episodes Jodie's brother was a mobster; his stepfather thought he could make himself invisible; one stepbrother talked with a ventriloquist's dummy and behaved as if the dummy was a real person; and his other stepbrother was a tennis pro having affairs with Jodie's aunt and her daughter. And this was just *his* side of the family in the first season. After that first season where Jodie tried to kill himself over his failed relationship, they depicted him as the only SANE one in the family. He had his own stories (TV's first gay man to sue for and win custody of his child, for one thing) but functioned much more as the voice of the viewer, making snide comments about the wacky goings-on in his family and offering good advice to other family members who weren't coping well with their melodramatic problems. Actually, I think after that early bit with wearing Mary's wigs, etc. they did a really good job of making Jodie a more guy-next-door kind of character. Perhaps Susan Harris felt that in order to get Jodie on the air at all, she had to write the "suicidal homosexual Jodie" to fill what the network thought a gay character ought to be. Then, after he was on the air, she could write the more well-rounded and reasonably sane character that we saw in seasons 2-4.
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Zam's picture

Soap and The Class

Thanks for the better explanation of Jodie Dallas.

I would also take issue with the writer's assertion about "The Class".  I enjoyed the show had to offer and wish they had extended it. 

The writer begins and ends his discussion of "The Class" with Perry (Sam Harris), omitting two other gay characters on the show, Kyle (hottie Sean Maguire) and his partner Aaron (Cristian de la Fuente).  Kyle and Aaron were a good-functioning and romantic couple.  I don't recall kisses, but they were shown sharing a bed starting with the pilot ep.  Yes, Perry was a swishy over-the-top fem case, but he was hardly the only gay representation on the show.

It's nice to occasionally try to fit entertainment and gay representation into cookie-cutter "types", but a lot of times these charaters don't fit these molds, especially when taken in the context of a show (as shown by your example).

Cylon's picture

A couple of comments

Re: Jack.
even Jack is far more a Han Solo-like rogue than a Luke Skywalker do-gooder.

I don't know if that's necessarily a bad thing (though Jack is certainly more altruistic now than he was when he first appeared in Doctor Who).

Re: Vito

While Vito was no saint, I don't think he was a heartless sociopath. If anyone was sociopath on The Sopranos, it would be someone like Ralph Cifaretto, who beat his girlfriend to death. Vito has more in common with Omar, another criminal, than he does with Keller.