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Gay Teens Finally Kiss Again on "As the World Turns"
211 days, 14 hours, 45 minutes, and 45 seconds. That’s how long it had been since As the World Turns had shown its two gay teen characters, Luke Snyder (Van Hansis) and Noah Mayer (Jake Silbermann), kissing. But in an episode airing today, the CBS soap opera caught viewers off guard with surprisingly steamy kisses between the two. News of the kisses had not been previously leaked. “As The World Turns remains committed to telling the story of Luke and Noah,” said the producers of the show in a statement to AfterElton.com. “We continue to tell this and all our stories based on what we think is best creatively. This kiss is the natural evolution of the relationship between Luke and Noah.” Daytime television’s only gay couple, often referred to as “Nuke” by fans, last kissed on September 26, 2007. Since then, there has been plenty of kissing between the show’s heterosexual couples, but a series of interruptions and pan-aways whenever it seemed like the gay teens might kiss. In the most well-publicized example, during last year’s Christmas episode, the characters leaned in to kiss, but at the last moment, the camera passed upward to mistletoe hanging above the doorway—an “artistic decision,” according to Brian T. Cahill, Sr. V.P., Managing Director for TeleVest Daytime Programs. But the seeming double standard set off a firestorm of controversy, with fans targeting the show’s producers with letters and venting their frustration in internet forums. One viewer even started a “Kiss Campaign" in December, encouraging fans to send bags of Hershey’s Kisses to CBS and Procter & Gamble Productions, which produces the show, encouraging them to show “Nuke” kissing again. AfterElton.com started a “Nuke Liplock Clock,” counting the days and minutes since they last kissed.
After the February Valentine’s Day episode, which showed each of the show’s main couples sharing a romantic kiss except Luke and Noah, another group of fans launched a media blitz that led to worldwide publicity over fans’ demands that the characters be allowed to kiss. The campaign led to major coverage on CNN, BBC, FOX, and in newspapers nationwide. Those involved with the show have always denied that the lack of same-sex kissing on the show is the result of any pressure from sponsors, anti-gay protest groups, or the network, calling it solely an artistic decision. “I understand why all this makes people scream,” Barbara Bloom, CBS Senior Vice President for Daytime, told TV Guide’s Michael Logan earlier this month. “The only thing you're going to get out of me is that the pacing is slower with Luke and Noah than it is with other romances on As the World Turns. But that's good storytelling. We're in the business of getting people to watch more.”
According to sources, the show’s upcoming “Nuke” storyline will have Luke moving in with Noah and Ameera, an Iraqi character that Noah has a “greencard marriage” with. Ameera surrenders the bedroom she had shared with Noah to Luke. When Ameera’s presence stilll gets in the way of his relationship with Noah, Luke decides to leave, causing Noah to tell Ameera he wants to end the marriage.
Submitted by on Wed, 2008-04-23 14:43. |
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pretty....
Great news
I'm Wit Ya!
haha...
dennis, we never argued...simply debated in a friendly manner. ;-)
you just have psychic feelings or something about luke and noah..... what else do you see forsee in their future? :-P
OK, I'll Bite
Liz - You asked, so here's my prediction for what's coming up.
As we know now, Ameera is seriously in love with Noah. Unlike some posters have suggested, there is NO chance that Noah even wavers a bit because of that. The drama of her unrequited love will likely drag out for awhile, since that's what the show does. The big question is whether Ameera is a fraud, set up by Noah's father. We know he appears again soon. If so, she also has genuinely fallen for him, despite the fraud. There's a chance she could go all "Fatal Attraction", which would actually be an interesting idea, but it's more likely she'll be devastated and Casey will save her.
After this storyline plays out, Noah and Luke will go on the back burner for awhile, though they will appear periodically, live together and ultimately be shown in bed. It will be "chaste" at first, but will eventually be more steamy.
Unfortunately, after a quiet period of being happy together, another "plot device" of some kind will appear. It won't be as blatantly stupid as the Ameera plot device, but it will be obviously contrived. And posters here will complain that it represents homophobia.
Behind the scenes, P&G has decided to allow the relationship to progress, but far slower than we'd like. That's a business decision. They want to somehow keep the new viewers without losing many of the old. Related to that, they think a slow progression will allow their older and/or more conservative viewers to gradually accept the relationship, even if they don't like it. We've speculated about the true nature of P&G. I suspect it's a mixed bag, with some of the execs being homophobic. But the ones that carry the day are those who don't give a rat's behind about the gay issue, but see the upside it provides the show. Those people will win.
Hopefully the spoiler is true
Can't wait to find out. This is turning into a very gay positive spring.
1. Luke Macfarlane comes out.
2. Kevin and Scotty get "married"
3. NUKE kisses for a third time on screen (We should make today a gay holiday)
4. Hopefully - Noah grows some and get's rid of the plot device. Bye, Bye.
Not only should he end the marriage--
It's about time!
Is setled.
Apparently No One Knew About the Kiss
Over at soapoperadigest.com they're steaming mad about not knowing the kiss was coming up. Apparently they're none too pleased with how the show has handled the Noameera situation, and how they shoved Martha Byrne (Lily) out the door.
Check it out, it's kinda funny: http://soapoperadigest.com/opinions/carolyn-hinsey-blog/
Look...he's just gonna beat you again.
SIX
Echo
Lets not get ahead of ourselfs
I Think.....
Whatever the reason kudos
This is HUGE! Can the world start turning again?
Am I the only gay man in America who was made sick to his stomach by the picture here of Noah kissing Luke with his “wedding” band proudly displayed front and center?
Am I the only gay person in America who's more offended by the disgusting marriage storyline than he is by how many days have gone by since Luke and Noah kiss?
Am I the only one who feels that the storyline that had Noah jumping to marry a total stranger, instantly giving his relationship with Ameera more legal/religious/societal/cultural significance and validity than anything he could EVER achieve with the man he claims to really love, not only shows Luke and Noah's lack of respect for their relationship and for each other but also plays into the accusations that anti-gay people in the REAL world are making that gay people don’t deserve marriage equality because they don’t respect the institution or tradition of marriage and only want to use marriage as a means to get benefits; or that gay men’s relationships are shallow, so shallow that one man in a relationship can marry a woman and still keep his legal stranger boyfriend on the side for jollies; or that gay men marry poor innocent women for nefarious purposes; or that gay men, when given the chance, would prefer to play straight than live honestly and openly with a same sex partner?
Even though I stopped watching this show the very day they previewed the episode where Noah told Luke he was going to marry Ameera and Luke agreed, I can’t help but feel that ATWT is having a good chuckle at how quickly and easily gay men will lap up an offensive and degrading storyline as long as they get a little tongue action thrown at them every once in a while.
Sadly, It seems they’re right. We are shallow and we will lap up crappy storyline as long as we get to see two men kiss on screen.
Over-Analyzing
Actually, you're badly over-analyzing the situation, with an eye toward assuming the worst. I get accused of over-analyzing things all the time, so I recognize it when I see it!
The ONLY thing that's going on here with the inclusion of Ameera is an effort to create plot tension and what they see as good drama. Nothing more or less. I'm embarrassed to admit it, but I've been watching ATWT off and on for years. This fits in perfectly with the sort of things they've done many times before. Think of it: if you have a gay couple, one of whom recently realized he was gay after trying to make it with women, what would be the most logical plot device to generate the most tension and problems? Well, what could possibly be better than a woman with the hots for the guy, who can somehow coerce him into marriage that threatens his new identity? No one's chuckling behind the scenes, no one's trying to stick it to us, no one's trying to make any comments about the marriage situation.
When I saw Ameera standing there facing Noah at the end today, all "prettied up" for him, the scenario totally hit home as completely in line with what this show has done for years, i.e., create intentional dramatic situations, no matter how far off the logical tracks they have to go. If you look at the story lines of other characters you constantly see that sort of manipulation and plot machinations.
For what it's worth, when I started watching the show it was superb, overseen by Douglas Marland, a genuine genius of daytime TV. Sadly, he died several years ago, and the show immediately went downhill. I only started watching again when Luke realized he was gay.
The world stands still.
TampaZeke, I agree with your analysis, but a set up for a story that looks offensive can turn out to be beautiful depending on how and why the story is told. It could be argued that the sham wedding actually shows how real Luke and Noah's commitment is, even without the blessing of a church. Perhaps the story will be about a gay couple who are more devoted than your typical straight couple and show that they deserve the benefits of marriage, something that is sadly denied them. (the jewelry store scene alluded to that). The contrast with this sham marriage and a real commitment can work for or against gay relationships. Let's hope P&G have the balls to do the right thing.
awesome
Saved by the kiss
P&G saved themselves the embarrassment of having Noah and Ameera kiss more times than Luke and Noah. That is if they actually can be embarrassed. Also, it took the gaze away from Martha Byrne's last day.
"We continue to tell this and all our stories based on what we think is best creatively. This kiss is the natural evolution of the relationship between Luke and Noah."
It's too little too late for me. I don't know if I can ever believe in Nuke or ATWT again. I can't wait another 211 days, 14 hours, 45 minutes, and 45 seconds, for P&G to decide they can once again find the creativity necessary to be inclusive and show that Luke and Noah aren't second class citizens. Artistic license does not come with a free homophobia clause.
"But the seeming double standard" You're writing that it wasn't a double standard, it only seemed that way? Very poor reporting, AfterElton seems like the last place I'd read an article skewed for homophobia.
P.S. thanks for the spoilers.
Gay but not Teen
You titled the article Gay Teens Finally Kiss Again on "As the World Turns"
While Luke is technically a teen, Noah's age has yet to be determined. Seeing as he is almost through with his 2nd year of college, it's safe to assume he is at least 20 years old and no longer a teen. Luke's age has been set at 18. Neither actor looks younger than 23 to me. It seems like you are trying hard, like P&G, to put a spin on the fact that this is a neutered a gay couple who if they were straight would be making out and having sex at this point. It doesn't read to me like you're telling it like it is.
It seems like they threw you a couple of bones and now you're wagging your tail.
Noah....
I think Noah is in his first year of college as well. I seem to recall when he started last year he was looking forward to his first year at Northwestern University. He wound up at Oakdale U instead. So he would still be a teenager. And no, neither of look like teenagers as both actors are well into their 20's, but neither did Luke Perry and he was playing a teen in his 30's.
And I know it's hard to let up the relentless bashing of ATWT because it's so much 'fun', bu a good thing happen yesterday and AE chose to acknowledge that, which is what they are here for. And there's nothing wrong with them looking at positively because on it's face, it could be just that, the tide has turned or whatnot. If ATWT continues to move forward with depicting the boys in romantic situations on screen, I'm sure AE will (gladly) take note, just as they will take note if it's another 200 odd days before the kiss again.
Not relentless, On top
I am sorry if it sounds like relentless bashing, but I am not ready or willing to give P&G a break. I commend them for allowing Nuke to kiss after 211 days, 14 hours, 45 minutes, and 45 seconds, But is also helps to keep fans after Martha's last day. Pretty sad thing to celebrate.
Listen, this might be fun for you, but it isn't fun for me. It hurts.
I think there is something terribly wrong for a site whose purpose is to show a gay view point on entertainment to turn a story in order to hide homophobia. That may not be what is happening. But these messages are like a letter to the editor.
Noah was an intern at the theater in Branson where he went to school. That establishes this as his second year, whether he had aspirations to go to Western or not. I would also like to point out that in every genre I recall, "teen" love stories involve high school aged kids. After high school these stories are referred to as "young adult" stories. P&G have also referred to Nuke as "young boys" which to me is like calling a black man, "boy."
P&G have neutered Nuke, and used their youth as an excuse. It's a ridiculously poor excuse. Also, it is insulting to have to make gay love infantile, as if it isn't the same as straight love, or to make the lovers childish so as to not make gay folks threatening. That's what the title of this article says to me, and that does a disservice to the gay community, in my mind.
.
Finding it difficult to get very excited about this...
Yes, it's great that they finally kissed. But I wouldn't be so fast to dismiss the power of well-organized & funded anti-gay groups to turn up the heat on P&G and put this portrayal of a same-sex relationship in peril.
I definitely do not share Dennis' optimism that we'll eventually see them doing anything the least bit suggestive in bed. If we're lucky, we'll see them sitting up in bed, shirtless, but with a good foot or more of space between them.
Which isn't to say that ATWT won't happily surprise us and prove me wrong. I'm just not going to get my hopes up, especially after the way they've so completely ruined the storyline. I'm not ready to go back to watching the show with any regularity, even when they're scheduled to be on. I'll keep tabs via the live blog, but nothing more. They're going to have to do a LOT more than a single kissing scene to regain my interest and trust.
I can't help but wonder if this sudden change of direction by ATWT has something to do with all the international excitement over Verbotene Liebe's Christolli same-sex storyline. And make no mistake - it definitely is a change of direction for ATWT - I don't care what kind of propaganda they and their apologists try to sell us. Pretty hard to go back to Nuke after watching Christolli.
You can look at the situation a couple of ways. You can keep hoping that the equal treatment will eventually happen, but only if we stay supportive of the show and encourage the producers for the good while shrugging off the bad.
Or you can save yourself the emotional rollercoaster ride and look for that equality from other sources that are already getting it right. Three cheers for the Internet and Verbotene Liebe in particular. But I can't spare much more than a raised eyebrow at this point for ATWT.
Ehhhh, still not convinced
I'd Bet You a Dinner!
Tim - If you lived around here I'd bet you a dinner on this one. You can see my fearless prediction for Nuke earlier in this thread. You also might be interested in the recent comments of the ATWT producer here: http://www.soapoperadigest.com/features/atwt/goutman-luke-noah-kiss/
His comments strike me as a bit disingenuous, but only partially. I first started watching ATWT at exactly the time that Holden met Lily, in the late 80s. The ATWT guy is totally correct - that relationship was EXCEEDINLY slow to develop, and it was a LONG time before they kissed. He says 3 years, which seems longer than I remember, but it WAS a long time. The show has always been very circumspect about sex with young people. (Obviously not with older people!) Despite that, it's apparent that they have deferred to older and longtime viewers, and also to conservative groups, but I maintain that the story is far more complex than the homophobia and exploitation alleged constantly by others. I'm sticking to my earlier predictions.
I'd cook you dinner.
Mainly because I know how to. Dennis, I appreciate your dedication to the show but the truth is, as Psionyck pointed out, ATWT had no problems having Noah have sex with Maddie, constantly exchange kisses with Maddie, and even man-handle Maddie to help forget about Luke. If ATWT has been circumspect about youth sex in the distant past, in the near past, they have not. And being that one-half of the couple is the afformentioned horn-dog Noah, the fact that he and his boyfriend Luke are barely shown kissing or anything more, makes ATWT homophobic, condescending, and rude.
Nonetheless, dinner is on me. :)
I partially agree with you,
I partially agree with you, which is why I called Groutman's comments disingenuous, and said they have deferred to older viewers and conservative groups. I keep getting misconstrued as denying what's happening, so let me restate again: there has been a double standard, and there has been unnatural "care" given to this storyline that hasn't been given to others. Further, the protest against that has been awesome and totally necessary. But I continue to maintain that the situation is far more complex than most people here have acknowledged. I still don't understand why acknowledging complexity, and motives beyond pure evil homophobia, is so difficult for people.
Maybe part of the reason why you and others are so much more offended than I is that I know that the relationship will continue to move in the direction we want, albeit much more gradually than we would want. And that they will eventually be in bed. Also, it's simply my nature to want to assume the best about people. That attitude is usually rewarded in my life, and certainly makes life far less bitter for me. Acknowledging that people generally want to do the right thing (republicans and conservatives excepted, of course!!!), and giving them some space, has made my life what it is. I've read a LOT about this whole situation since Luke came out, and I am completely convinced that the people at ATWT truly do want to do the right thing. To acknowledge that and be appreciative of that does not mean I'm "settling", as the rigid thinkers around here have also alleged about me.
If Nuke has been shown in bed by the time you make me dinner, I'm going to demand a nice bottle of wine as well!! :)
Choose Gay over Ratings
Denis, you keep wanting to get into a 'complex discussion', as you say. That means discussing: "the motives beyond pure evil homophobia"? I don't know P&G's motives. For all I know it might be pure homophobia. It is all speculation based on what they produce. All I know is what they do and the effect of what they do. They are frustratingly mute or deceptive about their motives. Their vague motives do not match their overt displays of gay interruptis. P&G is deceptive to the point where I don't understand how any fan will ever believe a word they ever say again.
You want to engage us in a hypothetical debate which could only 'help' Goutman, in the same way that only a focus group could help him to find a better way to deceive and exploit gay people? That's how I see your argument. You're looking for an argument because P&G doesn't have an argument. You would like them to. I would love it if they did. Hell, I'd be the first to convert back. But, you seem to want someone to 'frame" that argument for them.
As I have suggested before, start a new topic in the forums and phrase your argument for or against.
"I know that the relationship will continue to move in the direction we want" You don't know spit. Unless your name is Goutman, you can only believe because faith is what we're talking about.
I have learned to judge people by their actions rather than their words. The day when P&G's actions match their words will be really fricken' swell. But I can't hold my breath for another 211 days, 14 hours, 45 minutes, and 45 seconds, in order to see P&G prove that they have chosen Gay over Ratings or Hating.
Nuke's love IS stifled
Lily was going with Dusty when she first met Holden, the stable boy, at her mothers barn. She also had teenaged affairs after their first meeting and up to the point of their first kiss, which I dont' think was the first kiss for either of them. If you count from the first day they met (after which they had plenty of lovin' from others) until the day when they actually kissed, that might be a couple years. But they weren't a couple during that whole time. Their story doesn't parallel Nukes in any way; it's insulting to imply that. It is also degrading to place a contemporary gay couple in the time frame of 20 years ago. Plus, it didn't take 6 months between the 2nd kiss and the next for Lily and Holden.
Gautman needs to own up to the truth and stop painting myths.
ATWT is nonchalant about teen sex, these days. Recently Noah (described by P&G as a "young boy") jumped into the sack with Maddie (a teen) within a few weeks of meeting her (it wasn't her first time.) Obviously "straight' teen couples are quick to have sex on this show! And they have no trouble doing it right away without caution.
All of Gautman's statements in that article are ridiculous. But I am surprised that he found a softer voice from the one recently quoted as ATWT on these pages. His problem is he is political without being coy, something that demands an amount of love and respect. He seems to lack respect or love for the GLBT community.
.
Noah/Maddie, Noah/Luke
I have to agree here. This situation is completely different than Lilden.
ATWT had no problem having Noah hop right into the sack with Maddie, or engage in passionately make-out scenes with her. I don't just mean quick, romantic kisses either! They seriously made out!
Nuke is not a parallel for Lilden because ATWT explicitly promotes the idea that Nuke are already a couple, perhaps even a "supercouple". So it's not a question of them moving towards a relationship, they're already supposedly in one!
That's why there's so much annoyance here. The message here is that a "boy" can have casual sex with a girl and it's okay. But for him to even kiss another "boy" is something that is dramatic and only to be reserved for special circumstances.
I also think they're deceptive because the publicity stills they put out to promote Nuke are much sexier than anything you'd see on the show. Indeed, rather than being a dramatic/romantic couple, Nuke are really almost a couple of joke characters.
Now granted, a lot of the venom on these boards is being fuelled by what's happening over on Verbotene Liebe in Germany and other shows foreign and domestic. The overall quality of writing on ATWT is just bad. Even disregarding the lack of PDA, Nuke's story is very poorly written. Drama is replaced by absurdity as they rely on plot devices that are so unbelievable (or else hopelessly anachronistic) that the whole thing just doesn't fly. To be honest, listening to Nuke's dialogue alone makes me cringe, even more so than the fact that they don't kiss.
The whole thing is poorly handled and unfortunately it's very noticeable. And I don't believe that the simple fact that they are gay in and of itself merits any kudos.
Luke needs kissing instructions
So, did the world stop turning?
R.I.P. - Heath Ledger [1979 - 2008]
ATWT - Procter and Gamble telephone poll