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Gay Kisses on TV: Finally No Big Deal?“I've actually not heard anything negative at all about [Greek’s] Calvin,” says Paul Lee, president of the ABC Family Channel, in an interview with AfterElton.com conducted last summer (prior to the recent kiss). “We're very open about the storylines that we're going to cover, and I think very responsible in the way that we cover all topics, not just ‘issue’ topics. I mean, these kids are at college.”
ABC Family president Paul Lee (left) & Greek's Paul James An increased tolerance for same-sex kissing was probably inevitable. After all, a benign physical act like a kiss can only be “shocking” for so long, even one with traditionally negative social associations. After that, desensitization occurs. Indeed, while far-right “family” protest groups like the American Family Association, or AFA, still claim to be outraged by the idea of same-sex kissing, even they tacitly acknowledge that the debate has shifted. “If they want to have a relationship as gays or homosexuals [portrayed on television], you can do that, in our view, that’s okay,” Tim Wildmon, president of the AFA, recently told the CBC, a Canadian radio network, talking about the As The World Turns kissing controversy. “We don’t approve of it because of our worldview, but we understand that gay people are real people and part of the social fabric of our country. [But] what’s the next scene, a bed scene? Do we show them doing other kinds of activities? All we’re saying is let’s draw the line at kissing, at physical activity and beyond.”
By his statement above, Wildmon basically concedes that the AFA doesn’t object to gay characters and gay relationships on television. This concession alone is revolutionary, even if it was probably spoken, at least in part, to fool a pro-gay Canadian radio audience into thinking the AFA is more reasonable than they actually are. But Wildmon’s only argument for drawing the line at kissing? Because it’ll somehow lead to actual gay pornography on television. In short, is a gay kiss on television finally just a kiss? At long last, maybe so. Submitted by on Wed, 2008-06-04 22:06. |
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So, do you ever fear that
Not at all. It would be great
Young audiences
It's about time!
Does anyone know if Melrose
Sadly, no, never ever ever...
The perfect waste of the "deleted scenes" option, which was far more likely to see something like that included that than the scenes being reinserted when Melrose made the trek to cable, on various channels (something I've been following the possibility of since Melrose Place was first syndicated for "E" back in 1996, before the more recent airing on SoapNet.)
On the contrary...
I think the difference is that the visibility of same-sex couples has increased to a point where enough people are getting the message - that we aren't the threat they've been taught to imagine. Emphasis on 'enough people'. That doesn't mean there aren't still a lot who would like to ship us somewhere else or worse, merely that their numbers are decreasing and their lies are being increasingly exposed for the bigotry that they are.
We seem to have turned a corner at the moment, but that doesn't mean we won't find ourselves at a dead end or detoured. Quite possibly, TV producers will reach a point in the not too distant future where their reaction to proposed storylines becomes "been there, done that" and we return to our former invisibility onscreen.
But I hope not.
Absolutely correct
You're absolutely correct F'losrix.
For example, I disagreed with the assertion that Kevin is treated exactly the same as the other characters on Brothers & Sisters. This is not really true. Indeed, one thing I find funny is that a lot of people complain that we've never seen Jack & Ianto on Torchwood in bed together, but we have seen Gwen & Rhys. But what a lot of people miss is that we haven't seen Kevin actually having sex in B&S, although we have seen Sarah, Kitty, Tommy and Justin all having sex in one way or another. With Kevin we always see him and who ever he's with after they've done the deed, never during.
But we're so accustomed to graphic depictions of heterosexuality on TV that we don't really notice them as much anymore. Straight people tend not to see them as significant at all. This is why there can be such an uproar over Nuke kissing on ATWT, but no outrage over all the graphic hetero activity on the show. This is also why we don't see Kevin and Scotty actually having sex the way we do his siblings. The ultimate irony though was of course the famous Melrose Place incident, since of course this was a show absolutely filled with hetero sex action.
Things have gotten better to be sure, but I don't think that we're controversy-free yet. One need only consider the shortage of non-ABC gay characters to note that we're perhaps not as liberated as one might think from watching some of the better shows. Progress is being made, but it's still uphill.
Interesting
Which pro-gay radio station are you speaking of?
But seriously, it'll take more than a few almost fancy words from the AFA to pull the wool over most Canadian's eyes. Sadly we tend to question almost everything that American Associations/Corporations say.
It is
Pathetic Grey's Anatomy
I wouldn't say so. We all
I wouldn't say so. We all can get so picky about how we are portrayed. Those characters had to fit into the story line, an example for Marideth and her love for Derek.
the guy died, yes. BUT Merideth's acceptance of the two men was shown, the love between the two men was shown, as well as how much it sucks to have to hide it from the people you love. I would have to say it was done extremely well and did its part for (need I say) our cause.
Brothers & Sisters - A Kiss may be just a kiss, but not abundant
It pains me (it really does) to disagree with Brent when he says nice things about "Brothers & Sisters"
http://www.afterelton.com/askmonkey/4-22-08?page=0%2C1
But disagree I must. Brent wrote:
"The last four episodes of Brothers & Sisters, which were particularly pro-gay and featured plenty of same-sex kissing"
The final four episodes had, count them, three same-sex kisses: Two (if you count the kiss on the cheek Scotty gave Kevin as he dashed off to work) in the episode where Kevin proposed (which was a highlight of the season) which ended with a very nice kiss. The third kiss was in the finale at the end of the borrowed ring exchange, and that was pretty much a "public peck".
I don't begrudge the show any of it's strides in making gay content more palatable to the masses. And perhaps that's why we should feel that the every other episode Kevin/Scotty kiss is sufficient.
But I can't say there has been plenty of same-sex kissing in the final four episodes. Actually, if my count is correct, there were 9.5 kisses (the 0.5 being the kiss on the cheek Scotty gave Kevin in the karaoke bar when he spotted Sarah and Kevin) in the entire second season of 16 episodes. Two of those 9.5 kisses were with Jason in the season premiere.
It's no secret I was not pleased with the show rushing and fast-forwarding past Kevin & Scotty's relationship development and equivalent of "jump to hyperspace" into nuptial bliss. I get the need to abbreviate some stories due to the shortened season. I am bitter that the gay romance was one of the stories they chose to cram into three episodes.
At the very least, we could have had a few more kisses in the process.
Getting Straight People Accustom to Gay Kisses
How far we've come, how far to go
Great historical overview, Brent!
Something that came to mind when I read the section on the Dawson's Creek kiss in 2001 was a quote I read from Kerr Smith after he had been playing Jack for some time: he said something about kids not needing to see guys kissing week after week. First: well, yes, they do. Second: today, just a few years later, an actor playing a gay role would never get away with saying something like that! Third: today, a kid (or an adult) could see guys kissing every week if he planned his TV viewing right. It would take planning, of course.
I'm also reminded that, in spite of how far we've come in this regard, we still have incidents like the one that occurred in Seattle's baseball park recently, where two women were asked by park security to stop "making out" so that parents sitting nearby wouldn't have to explain to their kids that sometimes people of the same gender do, in fact, fall in love and that it's just as normal and wonderful as the love that brought those kids into the world.
OMG....
That seattle baseball incident had me rolling my eyes so far back into my head, i am surprised i didn't lose my sight. GEEZ.
i think it was a mother who asked the usher to step in....anyways, if i were that usher, i would've said "oh, well...you better explain why THEY are kissing too lady..." and i would've walked the hell away.
If parents (accepting and tolerant of course) want gays and lesbians to be normal to their children, they should start introducing it to them (books, shows) while still reading them cinderella and beauty and the beast. that way, the kids won't see anything 'weird' about it.
I know!
Dear Liz,
I think you're right -- it was either a mom or a dad or both who went to security to complain in the Seattle baseball incident. I don't have the quote right, but it was something like, "We don't want to have to explain to our kids why two women are kissing." To which I say, "No, what you need to explain to them is why you don't love them enough to take responsibility for having these kinds of real-world conversations with them. May I be so bold as to imagine that you also don't want to explain how babies are made? I'm so tired of people wanting to make babies but not having enough imagination to recognize that they're going to have to have difficult conversations with them. Now, go buy a hot dog for your kid and another beer for yourself, keep your eyes on the field, and root root root for the friggin' home team."
It's time that we put "we don't want to have to explain" into the dustbin of bad defenses, along with the twinkie defense, gay panic, and "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit."
If they don't want...
If they don't want to have to explain things they might not like to their children then maybe they shouldn't take them out in public at all.
I mean come on! A rascist parent could just as easily be opposed to interracial relationships and be upset seeing a white woman and a black man sitting together and kissing! Should they be allowed to demand that it stop that they don't have to explain to their kids that yes, black and white people can fall in love?
Or what if a Muslim parent were upset about all the women in shorts and tanktops in the stadium. Should they be allowed to demand that they all be covered up so that their kids don't get the idea that such clothing is acceptable?
While they're entitled to disapprove of certain things they're not entitled to demand that the whole world accomodate them.
It's a stupid, bigoted argument that has only one response: if you don't like it then don't leave the house!
The Will & Jack kiss
If I'm not mistaken, the kiss by Will & Jack in front of NBC studios was a case of art imitating life. I remember watching the Today show one morning when a guy held up a sign saying something like "Honey, will you marry me?" When Al Roker took the mic up to him, the guy turned his sign around (I forget what the other side said), turned to his boyfriend, who was standing next to him, and planted a big ol' smooch on him.
The Today show guys have historically been a touch homophobic (uncomfortable, anyway), so Al was pretty freaked out, as I recall.
Does anybody else out there remember this incident? (With more details than my poor brain could conjure up, I hope!)
I'm guessing this is what
I'm guessing this is what you're talking about. Roker rushes off like a pro but oh, how he'd stay and fawn if 'Jill' wasn't a lure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gCYAe7T-Bk
I think it's years off before we get the out characters in the series premiere, no dancing around the subject, no less explicit than hets in the show, and even get gay kissing on Saturday morning toons.
Mister 2
Dude! Great pic from the old He-Man series!
One has to wonder about the subtext of that show, what with Prince Adam running around in lilac-colored tights and a pink top.