The Best Gay TV is in Europe
What works? The show deals frankly with teen sexuality as Max and Enric kiss frequently and are intimate. However, their open relationship leads to a great deal of angst and mistrust as the boys hook up with other people. What is the outlook? Max and Enric broke up last December. Max is still on the show.
Hotness: 8/10 If there’s one thing all of these shows have in common, it’s a willingness to truly and fully explore all aspects of these characters, not just how being gay relates to their sexuality. So often in American shows, gay characters are treated like conversation pieces, to be brought out and displayed when there’s a lull in the action, or in service to the straight characters and their more well-rounded lives. The gay token or eunuch has been a mainstay in American entertainment for decades, and it’s only recently that U.S. network TV has taken small steps to present a more realistic vision of gay life. Viewers who waited months for Luke and Noah to kiss on As the World Turns need only look across the pond for an embarrassing reminder that the U.S. still has far to go before it can join the grown-ups. AfterElton.com writer's Wolfi and Snicks contributed to this article. Submitted by on Tue, 2008-08-12 21:31. |
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Chris Finch
Thanks!
Not from Europe but there's also Degrassi and Paradise Falls
And Robson Arms....
....from Canada, too.
I say we take the warning labels off everything and let nature take it's course.
Comments on Corrie, Eastenders
dont forget max iago in el
YeAH I agree
Max and Iago's storyline is different from Max and Enric's. I recently completed watching several clips of this Catalan couple on YouTube and I can say that their love story is very awesome. Thanks to Evama, Atraxii and Yucatan Handbook as well as Alejandro
Max/Iago's love story is different from other gay stories. The romance factor is 11 out of 10. The couple has lots of kissing scenes. And it is comforting to watch that the couple is comfortable with each other doing the affection in public.
The Max-Iago tandem is now my favorite together with Ollian of Verbotene Liebe. European Gay TV is certainly the best!
jb1483
u forget tinsel town and
Shameless!
JP and Hollyoakes get top
JP and Hollyoakes get top marks. But are they really this good? ;)
Romance: 19/10 Hitting 19 out of 10 is quite a feat ;p
I do think that El Cor should also get props for Max's second relationship with Iago. It might not have been as hot at the one with Max, but what makes it interesting is that whie Max and Enric were still a coming out drama, Max and Iago's storyline was an action/drama storyline that would have worked just as well with a young straight couple, focusing mostly on Iago's criminal leanings, the death of his mother, his enjailment and Max standing by him and defending him to his family. It's nice to see such original writing for a gay storyline.
Quote:Now he is being
Craig is a prop
His entire personality changed to suit the story with John Paul. He's only returning for this "Sunset Ending", with a John Paul who has also been drained of most personality. Meanwhile, Spike and Kieron, both potentially great characters, were squandered because Hollyoaks doesn't seem to believe gay men can exist in any story besides John Paul's story.
It's hard to care about a happy ending when the happy ending is mired in so much heavy, depressing material and does not feel organic to the characters. That's basically what will happen with McDean.
The McDean relationship was
The McDean relationship was and is a very organic one. Craig's entire personality didn't change just for John Paul. I assume you're on about the whole 'but Craig was straight before!' gripe? Well if so, I've said it before and I'll say it again, just because a character may look, sound, act straight and shags girls, does not mean he can't be bisexual or even gay. It was not impossible for Craig to fall in love with his best friend, if it was then I can understand you going on about it being not organic.
And just because what's gone in between the beginning of McDean and it's Sunset Ending isn't as organic, doesn't mean what we see in September will be along the same lines. All I can say is that you seem to have a very disillusioned view of the whole storyline, and unfortunately will most likely never see anything good in it's resolution because of it.
My comment had nothing to do with Craig being straight
While I did think they were clumsy in their transition into Craig having feelings for John Paul, there was far more damage done to his actual personality. They took a funny, quirky young man who had his eye on wheeling and dealing and his future, who was always very sensitive and supportive of his girlfriens, and turned him into some kind of a rageaholic control freak. They focused more on Craig not wanting to allow John Paul or Sarah to be happy on their own than on Craig having romantic feelings for John Paul. He spewed homophobic slurs at John Paul. He threatened him. He tried to force himself on Sarah. He called her a whore. All of this was wildly out of character for Craig. He kept John Paul as his secret for months all while planning to marry Sarah and leave town with her. I know that confusing sexual feelings can change a person, but THAT much? I don't think so.
They have put John Paul with Kieron even though it makes John Paul look like a hypocrite (another secret relationship) and even though they only seem to have come up with this story so there will be conflict when Craig returns. It's all plot device and no motivation. John Paul barely interacts with his family, he has no drive, he's lost any sense of spark or humor he ever had. And they seem to feel the need to write out Kieron at the same time as McDean leave, because they don't trust the drama of a McDean reunion enough, they have to add in this heavy material which will possibly overshadow any Sunset Ending.
I have a disillusioned view of this story because I thought John Paul had the potential to be the best gay character ever on a soap. And then, after Craig left, he wa completely and totally ignored and marginalized becaue they didn't seem to want to bother to put him in any role besides the token gay whose life is all about being gay and who is waiting for Craig to come back.
El cor de la ciutat
IAMAX
I love Max and Iago to the Max. I hope their romance will still go on until the next season.
jb1483
Marienhof!
You are forgetting Mischa and Sülo from Marienhof (that soap airing just after Verbotene Liebe). It's all with LolaRuns now, who's already posted some pictures.
BTW, that picture with Thore and Jo, absolutely fabulous! They are gorgeous outside their VL-characters!
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R.I.P. - Heath Ledger [1979 - 22 January 2008]
R.I.P. - Sayif [2006 - 12 June 2008] - my cat, run over by a car..
Another show worth mentioning
Another show worth mentioning is Spains Physics or Chemistry (Física o Química). Its a weekly teen show centered in a school where there is a gay teen coming to terms with his sexuality.
The relevant things to mention are the general accepting way people take this process, not without problems of course, but done fairly natural.
But more notable is the relationship that has developed with another character. Let me give you some back story: Fer, the gay teen, and Rubén are best friends. Rubén commits suicide. In dealing with this tragedy Fer befriends Rubéns straight older brother Julio. He is one of the popular guys is school.
The interesting thing about this is the way popular Julio is so accepting and supportive of Fer. He even helps him come out to his parents, who dont bat an eyelash about it BTW. And when, because a misunderstanding, Julio learns Fer has some feelings for him, involving an almost naked hug, he doesnt freak out and takes it in stride.
Its been really refreshing to see this kind of friendship. The show is set for a second season in the fall.
Maybe in the second season
we can see Fer first relationship. The first one was about his problems to accept his best friend's suicide, Fer being bullyed (not so much because Fer isn't passive and he has friends to help him), and for me the most important is his relationship with Julio (his parents were really supportive with his coming out).
Fer is the only gay in spanish television who isn't flamboyant right now (of course most of them are in comedys an Physsics and Chemistry is a drama). The serie has a lot of controversy because violence, sex and drugs, but the gay theme was very well treated. I hope Fer has a relationship and continues being important in the storys of Julio and Cova
Yes in seconde season
Wanna see
Les Bleus clips were subtitled
THANKS!
I've just finished watching all of them.
Thanks again.
Yes!!!! European TV is so
Joshua Norton
San Francisco
I'm assuming the list is
I'm assuming the list is only looking at European soap operas, as there is plenty more gay representation on UK TV (Torchwood, Shameless and Skins being some of the most prolific).
The thing with Emmerdale is, despite the problems with gay relationships, they have a reasonably impressive track record with lesbian characters. Also, Paul's first relationship with bisexual Ivan was much better presented, the villain being Paul's scheming sister and not any of the gay characters. And with Hollyoaks, the once great John Paul has now become a plot device, just so the John Paul/Craig fans can get their sunset ending. It's quite disappointing that this has sullied Kieron, as he's quite a good character when interacting with Ste and other characters.
Neither of these shows are on air anymore, but Brookside had a pretty good gay storyline in the late 80s, and children's soap Byker Grove, which was the first British drama to have a coming out story. Both were well acted, critically acclaimed shows in their peak.
Whatever happened to the
I do know that Gordon was
El Cor de la Cuitat
Oh YEAH!!!
Max and Iago are definitely AWESOME in their portrayal of LOVE AGAINST ALL ODDS.
I am waiting for the next season and for the next installments of clips on YouTube. Definitely, their storyline is a classic.
jb1483
Thank you Wolfi, snicks and
Thank you Wolfi, snicks and Michael for a well written and fair article.
Indeed, Europe is way ahead of their US counterparts when it comes to gay inclusions and depth in gay storylines. I love the 'matter of fact' attitude that many of these European shows have when they include a gay couple. The 'no need' to stand on a hilltop and wave a flag 'look at me, we have a gay storyline' is so very refreshing to see. The contrast over here in the US is that pull for publicity...a rolling out of the red carpet so to speak with the lust to grab magazine and entertainment show headlines. We need look no further than ATWT, a huge disappointment of a storyline that could not or would not let their so in love characters kiss for almost eight months. It was like watching something from 30 years past. ATWT milked and is still milking this chaste storyline until the cow is desert dry. 'Gossip Girl' is another recent example of a show that got a ton of unearned publicity because of a main character about to come out. And when that 'coming out' episode aired they didn't even show a liplock.
Also well stated in this write-up is the 'token gay' character phenomenon...the one who pops up every now and then, hovers in the background or makes a one shot deal for that 'very special episode,' which of course garners publicity.
Yes, the US has had some wonderfully written gay characters but these are on Cable TV. The only decent gay storyline right now on network TV is 'Brothers and Sisters' Even Cable at the moment is sadly lacking.
And thanks for the great picture chosen of Jo and Thore, who both look very handsome in what is one of my favorite shots of them outside of VL.
19-10 for romance
Wiccan...I completely agree
Wiccan...I completely agree with you regarding the romance in HollyOaks to that of VL. Although I loved the John Paul/Craig Dean storyline, it wasn't really romantic but filled with angst and pain. And as for John Paul/Kieron storyline...i'm not a fan, but from what I have seen it's wasn't romantic either, more filled with sorrow and struggle for both of them. Personally, I think the Olli and Christian relationship in VL is the most romantic of all of the SOAPS listed. In fact, I think the romance between Olli and Christian is far more rapturous in scoop compared to that of even Kevin/Scotty of Brothers & Sisters or David and Keith of Six Feet Under. And it's nice to see this for a change. I love that they are crazy for each other and hardly argue, disagree or haven't broken up, yet. I think the writers of VL have written a strong, healthy and unabashed loving couple.
I do believe that 19 score for romance is a typo. I think it's meant to be a 9.
Great Summary Michael
American version of Clara Sheller?
Comments on French series
There are some in latin america too
I'm from Argentina, and gay characters are often introduced on TV and some have a very intense sexual content (most important shows air after 10 pm here) for example you can see this clip from “El tiempo no para” (time doesn’t stop) for a gay sex scene: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGTzCcARnvA (very explicit)
And in this other clip you can see a series of sex scenes from different shows between straight, gay and lesbian couples (very explicit too) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IBIBN59oh_U
And here a clip from “Florencia de la v” (a very famous transgender comedian and vedette) in “bailando por un sueño” (our version of dancing with the stars) who won the competition by the public vote. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HRvffoFfHH4
As you can see we are a very gay friendly country (Buenos Aires was the first city in latin america with a civil union law). And by the way, the first clip is from one of the most conservative networks in Argentina ;)
South America perplexes me
I have yet to encounter any seriously homophobic people from South America. Granted, most of the people I deal with are business people so I have no idea what the rest of the population is like. But it has been my impression that 90% of any anti-gay attitudes that are present are either pushed by the Catholic Church or else by Evangelical Protestant missionaries from North America.
It would be great to hear your thoughts on this Cirpicio. There's nothing better than first-hand insights.
Religion and homophobia
But it has been my impression that 90% of any anti-gay attitudes that are present are either pushed by the Catholic Church or else by Evangelical Protestant missionaries from North America
Well, I think it's worth remembering that there is also plenty of homophobia in Arab Muslim countries, sort of Atheist countries like Russia and Hindi countries like India.
But I do find it fascinating that you have countries with a reputation of being very Catholic like Spain (and not even the moderate and indifferent Catholic you might find in Germany) and have them go against the grain by being above average gay friendly. (of course that is hardly a rule of thumb with many stoutly Catholic countries being as anti-gay as you might expect them)
Were the Russians ever really Atheists?
Seriously, I know that Communists were "officially" supposed to be Atheist but in practice the Russian Orthodox faith never really faded from the landscape as one would expect it to in a country where religion is supposed to have been a thing of the past. Now figures like Putin, who long for some of the trappings of the Soviet past, nonetheless actively promote the Orthodox religion as part of a Russian national identity.
The same holds true for most of the ex-Soviet satellite states, where religion surged quickly after Communism. The Polish had always defined their defiance of the Soviets in terms of their Catholic faith, which colors their politics to this day. It also contributes to their aggressive homophobia.
Spain however is a special case. The Catholic Church was heavily allied to Franco's dictatorship and clergy often helped ferret out opponents of his regime, who were then imprisoned or killed. So a lot of Spaniards have a distinct distrust of the Church itself, even if they broadly agree with the religion overall. My general impression is that they went and legalized same-sex marriage specifically because they knew it would piss off the Pope, rather than despite that fact.
As for the Muslim nations, entire libraries have been written about human rights issues therein, so it's hardly surprising that gays have problems there. India, however, is more ironic, since Hinduism didn't really have any noticable anti-gay stance (although Islam certainly did) until the British brought it with them. Ironically, most of India's (and numerous other ex-colonies such as Singapore) laws against homosexuality were instituted under British rule and remain in force, even though the Brits themselves have moved on.
The same holds true in Africa, where many native cultures were not originally very hostile to homosexuality but have since become so as conservative Christianity and Islam have been imported across the continent in recent centuries.
It usually has more to do with conservative versus progressive attitudes than anything else. For example, my family is Catholic and they generally support things like same-sex marriage. But God knows the American Church is a headache for the Pope.
Well it was the official
Well it was the official ideology for a long time and I doubt that the ones who publicly returned to orthodoxy are the only ones who are anti-gay. I'm no expert on Russia, but we have the case of ex-Communist ruled Eastern Germany. Germany has one of the highest percentages of "atheists" (people who have "no confession" as we call it, who don't consider themselves part of any religion) partly because of East Germany. However the East German states are usually poorer and as a rule of thumb, everything is worse there, violence against immigrants and gays included, as well as people switching their allegiance to (ideologically anti religion) neo-nazi groups. So, no, I don't think a religious background is necessary in order for somebody to be homophobic.
Also: ==> http://english.gay.ru/life/history/moonlightlove/SovietHomophobia.html
I agree with you that it is about conservative vs. progressive values, but while religion is a convenient tool for that, if there is a lack of religion, other ways to justify will be found.
BTW, I just read a book by George Lakeoff and while I don't care for large parts of his ideology I found his theory that conservatism vs. progressivism really stems from patriarchal world view vs. nuturent world view rather fascinating. And that that is the reason why anti-gay sentiments pop up so often when conservatism comes up because "strict father morality" considers it a threat to and undermining of its world view.
For example, my family is Catholic and they generally support things like same-sex marriage.
I don't find that terribly surprising. Of course I'm used to European type Catholicism where many people more or less default to Catholicism and consider themselves Catholics out of tradition and loyalty with their history and not because they are particularly obedient of the Pope.
Anti-gay attitudes
It is rather ironic, all things considered, that after decades of dreaming of reunification East Germany ended up being such a headache for the West.
However, you touched on something very crucial. Sociologists generally recognize that people who are prosperous tend to be independent in their thinking whereas people with hard lives tend to seek for an ideology to adhere to. This is why the Catholic Church, for example, finds it's most obedient devotion in the Third World, while First World Catholics are notorious for questioning the Vatican.
Mind you, wealth does not equal liberalism. This intellectual freedom that prosperity brings can still produce conservativism. The almost capitalist approach to religion pervasive in America is a great example, especially the many non-denominational "mega-churches" that spring up around charismatic preachers who don't want to be shackled to a denomination.
Usually though, anti-gay attitudes are rooted in notions of gender roles, whether those roles are defined by religion (most commonly) or by a secular philosophy. They are also popular in cultures with a strong demand for conformity versus individualism. The traditional argument was that homosexuality violated gender roles and also prevented procreation.
But with the world population at 6.5 billion and climbing, the survival of the human race is hardly at risk from low birth rates, although individual cultures may be.
It's more a case that modern societies have begun to place greater emphasis on individual quality-of-life than earlier generations and ideas like love outweighing other considerations in relationships have been creeping in. People are beginning to look at happiness as a measure of success of a society and this is changing a great many attitudes.
that's because we are very complex people ;)
Catholic church is very important and powerful in Latin America, and you are right about something, when civil union was approved by the congress the only one that make a fuss about that was the catholic church (but they did the same in 1983 when the divorce law was approved, and then again a few years ago when the congress made a law about sexual education in schools -for them condoms = abortion-) but there was a very positive reaction from the general public (of course I’m talking about the capital city, I have no idea about homophobia in rural areas). In the last few years an increasing number of openly gay people have appeared on TV (from very serious journalists to a transgender comedian and actress) and they have won the people affection, and I think that make people more aware of that sexual orientation is just one part of a person and not what make them what they are. For example here I put some clips from “Julio Bocca” (a very important and loved ballet dancer) public farewell (retirement) in the streets of Buenos Aires obelisk in front of more than 300000 people (he is gay and out of the closet for a few years now, but you never hear someone talking about his sexuality because he had accomplish more important things to talk about than who is he sleeping with).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v9-9veH4yNU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ykpf6Rq8IJw&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrCEUAz2PV0&feature=related
greetings and sorry for my English. ;)
Thanks Cirpricio!
On the unknown side of the world
Names?
Hey, derspatz, care to elaborate a bit? Any names/titles of shows?
I know a few films, but no series.
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R.I.P. - Heath Ledger [1979 - 22 January 2008]
R.I.P. - Sayif [2006 - 12 June 2008] - my cat, run over by a car..
Eloboration
There was "Telenovela LTD" in 2005 with a charcter falling inlove with his girlfriend's younger brother and their affair.
"The Champ" (Ha'alufa) in 2006 with a minor story of a soccer player falling for a transgender
"Dolls" (or Bubot) in 2008 which featured two supporting characters, one of them left his wife to be with the other.
"Exposed" (or Hasufim) which is still running has a minor story about a love triangle between a bi-sexual reporter, a news producer and the weather-guy.
Lately there's a show called 'till the wedding which features the bride-to-be's gay brother and his relationship with his boyfriend.
Back in the mid-late 90's there was a show called "florentene" which was the first in israel to have to men kissing and having sex.
Thanks!
Cool! Thank you derspatz!
And that Ofer Shechter guy (in Telenovela and Ha'alufa) sure looks goooood!
-----------------------------------------------------
R.I.P. - Heath Ledger [1979 - 22 January 2008]
R.I.P. - Sayif [2006 - 12 June 2008] - my cat, run over by a car..
Till the wedding
Ofer!
Thanks again!
I found this on YouTube! :o)))
http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=yjFCfquQPI4
From Ha'Alufa with Yehuda Levi and Ofer Shechter.
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R.I.P. - Heath Ledger [1979 - 22 January 2008]
R.I.P. - Sayif [2006 - 12 June 2008] - my cat, run over by a car..
clips from show