I know you didn't like that storyline (I loved it) but I don't understand why you would say it was dragged out for far too long. It wasn't even 4 weeks! That's pretty fast on a slow paced show like this (Example: Nina has been paralyzed since April). IMO it's a good thing when a show takes it's time to tell it's stories.
I'm looking forward to Lucas vs Dex. And with Noud helping Lucas, it could get very interesting.
..... It's not that I didn't like the storyline. My problem was that it really much of a story, the scenes between Lucas and Janine were getting repetative and it was the only thing Lucas was really doing for the most part. And it didn't help that I found Lucas' behavior during this plot arc to be distasteful to say the least. I think it would have worked better if the show had of gotten Lucas involved in an actual real storyline and had his issues with his mother play out over a period of time, weaving in and out of his life while his own main story took prominence.
And I'm looking forward to Lucas vs Dex as well. That could be interesting.
We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think their scenes were repetative. To me it was really interesting to watch. It was like things could escalate at any moment. Every episode it came a little closer to that.
It was interesting to me. Especially when you know the backstory surrounding Lucas' birth. I thought it was ironic that Janine's main concern was safe sex while Lucas himself is the result of unsafe sex. Lucas was basically a 'little accident' between Janine and Stefano, her husband's son. One of - if not the - biggest scandals in the Sanders family.
Lucas and Janine trying to reconnect with all those issues is a real storyline to me, so I guess I don't really understand what you mean when you talk about it not being an actual real storyline. You've mentioned your dislike for Lucas' behavior a couple of times now, but there were reasons, valid reasons in my opinion, why he was acting out.
And during these issues with Janine the show already started preparing the Dex/Lucas conflict so it wasn't like these issues with his mother were the only things going on in his life. I think the writers did a great job of (re)introducing the character to the canvas. They're taking their time with him and I like that a lot.
I agree. The gay thing wasn't really the issue but both son and mother were using it as a buffer so as not to deal with the real hurt and disappointment they both felt about the situation.
When you live the life that Janine has then you send you kid away to be raised by his father (for better or for worse and even if he "chooses" to go) you can't expect to just pick up where you left off when he is now an 18 year old young adult who is pissed off with you for basically ignoring his entire adolescence but who desperately needs to have a connection with you despire his anger.
I think it's a very real story that happens as a result of divorce (or where the parents simply aren't together) when you have kids becoming completely disconnected emotionally and physically from a parent (usually the father) and the parent just tries to ignore that it is happening or has happened because they feel so much guilt and they focus all their attention on the kid in front of them instead of the kid that's being raised in another country or city.
I think that's by my major issue with how viewers have accessed Lucas. It's like people are ignoring the circumstances of Lucas' behavior and only focusing on each incident as though it is isolated or unrelated to the overall emotional tormoil going on with Lucas and Janine.
Janine just wanted to act like nothing had happened since Lucas was a kid and pretend that she knew him just as well as she did then because she felt guilty. Guilty about the circumstances of his birth (still, I think), guilty about letting him go live with his father, guilty about having a stronger relationship with her daughter than with Lucas and guilty for not making the effort to stay in touch with or get to know Lucas while he was gone.
A few sharp words and some sassing back from Lucas to Janine hardly compares to the mistakes Janine has made with Lucas. Respect must be earned and it goes both ways, particularly once your kid is 18 and you haven't been an actual mother to them since they were a child.
All Lucas wanted was for Janine to acknowledged that she messed up royally where he was concerned and to make the effort to get to know him again instead of just obsessing over his sexual practices (which seemed pretty normal and harmless for an 18 year old particularly by non US standards where sex is not some hidden shameful thing people are supposed to pretend they aren't doing or hide from their parents) and judging him and talking at him and ordering him around.
Obvioulsy Lucas needed to calm down too and cut Janine some slack but Janine is the parent. It is her job to be the better person, the bigger person, that's just real life.
Sometime the only thing a parent can do is know better, see the bigger picture and listen to their kid and not give up.
It think it's been a wonderful story arc and a lot more believeable then Lucas coming back to live with Janine after all those years and everything being just hunky dorry as if he'd never left and she hadn't ignored him for years.
I'm excited to see Lucas fall in love and tangle with Dex over the design stuff but I think non-romance related storylines are just a interesting for gay characters and this tangle with Janine really helped you to understand where Lucas is coming from and what's in his heart which makes him more dynamic and dimensional as a character in my eyes.
I know OLTL fans like to TALK about fanfic, but all I've actually found is one little ficlet. If the real thing is out there in any quantity, remember what your mother taught you*, and share!
You have my sympathy for being required to watch ATWT. I stopped watching at the end of 2008. I watched the occasional clip. I read this blog and am happy that 5 hours of every week aren't wasted on the characters whose credibility have been all but destroyed.
OLTL hasn't made it onto my DVR schedule (yet), but it will probably happen soon. I hope that the writers give the faux-gay marriage story some real balls (and not just Dorian's). Nick seems to be win at all costs. Oliver's opinion will be interesting considering his conservative upbringing and recent outing. I am most interested in Kyle's. Let's get a mixture of opinions that aren't too preachy, where the motivations as well as the good and bad intentions are honestly and equally portrayed. Make the (straight and gay) audience REALLY THINK about the issue.
I'm still hanging in with Verbotene Liebe, and especially with the full eps on the Das Erste site. I hope the boys get a good story soon. But that's what we say every week. On the other hand, the characters remain themselves and haven't been betrayed by plot-driven stories like another show I used to watch. The sad thing is that most stories seem to be focusing on the castle these days, and especially with the new characters being brought onto the show in the next month or so.
Also, Jo & Thore will have roles in a new movie that begins filming in March. Check out Transfer at Aachen on IMDB.
I write that sentence for the first, and hopefully last, time.
Really, we haven't seen any variation in views on gay marriage. The difference of opinion is what's acceptable to get it. We have yet to see any character express disapproval of, or even mixed feelings about, the issue of gay marriage itself.
Frankly, I'm willing to accept a utopian skirting around an issue that would only upset me if they really dove into it. They're using the gay marriage issue as a springboard for a story on their show, rather than using their show as a springboard to explore the issues surrounding gay marriage.
As someone fed up with the over-earnest, preachy gay storylines of years past, filled with HIV and gaybashing and coming out stories, I'm fine with that. But if you're looking for something else, I felt it only fair to warn you.
PLEASE! Let me live in my Pollyanna-ish world where gays kiss and boink on daytime and are honestly portrayed with integrity and allowed to live and emote equally with their hetero counterparts.
It would be nice to see the thought-provoking issue (I've given up holding my breath when it comes to soaps) only because of the friction the opposing views might cause among the characters.
PLEASE! Let me live in my Pollyanna-ish world where gays kiss and boink on daytime and are honestly portrayed with integrity and allowed to live and emote equally with their hetero counterparts.
Oh, you'll get all those things. (Well, not the boinking yet, but the closest daytime's come yet, and they're aiming big enough that I hold out hope we may get it yet.)
I was only warning you that the specific issue-driven conflict you mention isn't there. But the debate over what's appropriate to achieve that goal is introducing plenty of friction between the characters.
I really don't expect the show to get into a serious discussion about gay marriage, other than to say 'the gays should have it and it's too bad they don't'. Nor do I think they'll get all preachy about it. And I love the shades of gray stance they are taking in terms of what to do to get it. But really, the story is really about the triangle between Kyle, Nick and Oliver. Which, IMO, is as it should be.
I find OLTL to be a tedious mess. Where is the triangle? Nick and Kyle's "relationship" happens off screen. There's no connection between them on screen. Nick is simply another obstacle. Everyone knew he would do something to drive Kyle away. A real triangle has viable outcomes. The Nick/Kyle relationship never got started. One on screen date, and Nick is crying because KYle has feelings for Oliver???? Now, he's obsessed with marriage. Next week, he'll want to adopt Stacy's fetus. This feels like ATWT where they leave out all the important story beats and tell the story at warp speed.The only difference is that the chorus (David) is more interesting than the main event.
In the last few months, Fish has slept with more women than Cristian so I keep waiting for someone to say, "Hey, straight boy, what do you know about being gay? Go back to your stripper!"
The whole mayoral story is a plot driven mess with everyone acting like idiots. I think Robin Strasser was right to be concerned that this would trivialise an important issue.
Sorry, I don't agree at all. Now you are free to believe that the writing is crap, but it is clearly a triangle. Two young, attractive gay guys are both vying for the love of a third hot gay guy who is attracted to and has mixed feelings (for different but valid reasons) about both. This is the classic soap triangle set up. Yes, I too am unhappy about the lack of intimacy being actually shown onscreen, but I guess even on OLTL, with a gay head writer no less, that simply will not happen on American TV.
Though Kish is clearly the endgame, Nick is certainly a viable and attractive alternative for Kyle, though the election machinations aren't scoring him many Brownie points in the the Kyle sweepstakes. Given the spoilers for month end, Kyle/Nick will still be together. Could the same ever have been said about Brian or Mason on ATWT?
I find I actually care about all three characters and would be perfectly happy with any couples (hey, even Fish and Nick might be fun) being together in the near term. Is this a soap triangle? Absolutely!
.... how it's NOT a triangle, especially since there's no certainty that Oliver and Kyle will get together. Right now, Kyle is torn between the two men. He's with and cares about Nick... but clearly has feelings for Oliver. Kyle and Nick are a viable couple (and Kyle is actually interested in and sleeping with) Nick, just as Oliver and Kyle would be, which in itself makes it a triangle. I also like all three men and I'd be fine if Kyle and Nick stayed together and we got to see things flourish between them. Yes, I would have liked to have seen more of the relationship develop on screen, but I get that the writers had to speed things up for story purposes and to raise the emotional stakes. I think if the show had of decided from the start that Nick was sticking around we would have seen Nick and Kyle getting to know each other, rather than the 3 week gap between Nick's appearances on the show.
It's okay to not not like the writing or the show and this certainly isn't perfect. But it is nothing like ATWT, who would never devote this much story and airtime to it's gay characters, taking the time to intergrate them with the show, have the interact with other characters and taking them out of the 'gay bubble'. Not to mention making them interesting people in a few episodes, where as ATWT can't be bothered to give their gay folks disconcernable and complex and appealing personalities even after months (or actually, years) of being on screen.
I don't see how anyone could think that Oliver/Kyle/Nick as ANYTHING BUT a bona fide soap triangle. Heck, depending on the hour, I don't know who Kyle should be with. Lucky bitch! :o)
And as for ATWT, I guess we should be used by now that the gays there will never get more than the Rosa Parks treatment vis-a-vis airtime and quality (rather lack thereof) of writing for that couple.
In the last few months, Fish has slept with more women than Cristian so I keep waiting for someone to say, "Hey, straight boy, what do you know about being gay? Go back to your stripper!"
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that because he slept with two women while he was in the closet, he can't be gay? And I'm not sure what Cristian has to do with anything. Your comment here seems a little... unfocused. Can you clarify exactly what you were trying to say?
zam...i'm with you on still loving VL and Ollian. I'll be with this couple until the curtain closes. But even though they are playing supporting...Ollian do get some major screen time. They've just about been in every episode aired over the past year...either forefront or background. And if nothing else, the writers have remained very faithful to their characters...Ollian haven't moved an inch in their devotion for each other, in fact...the relationship has grown to the point where i'm sure they could finish each other's sentences. And although their deep love for each other maybe boring to some, I for one am pleased we haven't gotten a third party breakup, cheating, bed jumping or temptation...now that's what I call stepping outside the norm when it comes to TV couples. You just don't see TV couples, especially on SOAPS, loving each other up for such a long period of time without some third person intervention.
But now with Jo and Thore to star in a movie next year, and with them recently over in England meeting up with other writers of shows...who is to know what will be their future on VL. All in all it's looking pretty bright for both these actors futures with offers coming in from other countries. But if Jo and Thore choose not to renew their contracts, then I hope the writers will give them a great send off. And with fingers crossed...brake from the norm and give us fans Ollian's storyline on DVD. Now that would be fantastic!
Yay Telenovelas! I actually grew up with telenovelas instead of US soaps so I'm used to the campy, low-budget feel. I love them! I actually like the bits of music, especially Santiago and Diego's theme song.
It's too bad that they have only subtitled midway in the storyline but I understand it's from a gracious fan.
One bit on Santiago's crippling "accident" though, it was actually a suicide attempt. Early on in the storyline before he admitted to himself that he was gay he had been constantly depressed and suicidal. But Diego kept trying to convince him that life wasn't all bad. The night of the accident was when Santiago admitted his feelings for Diego but was still intent on taking his life so he crashed his motorcycle on a post.
Veronica, Santiago's crazy mom, is pure camp though and I love watching her. Aurora who is Diego's awesome mom had a wonderful and touching scene with Diego when he came out. And Diego recently told off Veronica while he was over visiting Santiago at his house. It was very funny.
On another note, If having gay characters was something rare for U.S. soaps it's still something even more rare for telenovelas. They have had gay characters before but usually nothing more than stereotypes. This is something really new for telenovelas so I welcome any chance at gay visibility. I agree that the acting can be very wooden and really my hopes aren't very high but the actor who plays Diego is soooo very cute. And the Telenovela format allows for a story to have a beginning and an end. Telenovelas usually run for 8-10 months and then end in a Gran Finale. So at least we will have some closure with SanDiego and not have to worry about future storylines.
You know, I admit one thing that I hadn't thought of or it hadn't ocurred to me was if there are a lot of postive gay depictions in the telenovela. Is this really one of the first?
Santiago's mom was very interesting to watch. The actress sure gets into the role, that's for sure. There wasn't a bit of scenery that didn't have her teeth marks on it.
I am looking forward to seeing how this plays out... and it's because the two boys are so likeable. You just want to see these two sweet kids find their happy ending.
isn't that expensive. Flights are really cheap in Germany (I could book a return flight for 361 Euro right now on yahoo) so I guess it wasn't a problem for Roman to accompany Deniz.
Did you guys notice that Oli's clothes (Forbidden Love) are becoming more colorful with every ep? I have to admit that lately I sometimes have to close my eyes cause it hurts to look at the combination of bright green with flashing red. lol
I don't watch VL much anymore, but I do sometimes look at the screengrabs, and at least in screengrab form, I love all the bright colors that everyone seems to wear. It might start to wear on me if I was watching whole eps, but it's pretty to look at for a few seconds.
I really hate the clothes they put the boys in, especially Olli. The garish colors are a bit much for me. And every once in awhile they'll put Olli in a really bright scarf, which actually makes me kinda nauseous.
I have been uploading the clips while the guy who run SanDiegoSubs have been subtitling them.
The first half of the storyline was good. Of course there were some stupid plot holes here and there, and stuff that didn't really make any sense. I really enjoyed the push and pull and the conflicts between Santiago and Diego though. It was obvious Santi struggled with his sexuality and Diego knew from the start he was gay. Diego had a very emotional coming out scene too, probably my favorite scene of the storyline.
I really do admire the writers for giving us this gay storyline, and they even have a lesbian storyline on the same soap. It's nice to see normal gay teens, struggling with other stuff too. Showing that being gay is not everything they are, like they have focused on Santi's depression and suicide thoughts and his family problems. I also think it's great they portray gay teens in a positive light, just as other teens, and not as stupid stereotypes.
The main issue when it comes to this storyline is obviously the similarities between RPPP and ATWT. ATWT is awful and it's not exactly something good to copy. The paralysis part of Nuke was probably the second worst part of their storyline, Ameera is the only one who managed to top that as the definitely worst. I just can't stand the fact that they made Santi paralyzed. We speculated if they would make him have amnesia or be paralyzed, and if it would be temporary or permanent. I am glad they made him paralyzed if amnesia was the only other option, because then we would have to start all over again! But of course, I wish they didn't make him paralyzed in the first place. This is just awful writing and an excuse for them not to have any sex. And this is my other major concern with this storyline, the lack of affection between them. They already showed them kiss once. The kiss was akward and not good, but I suppose that's normal with the first gay kiss. But they haven't really showed any PDA since Santi had that motorcycle accident. I understand the sex part, that it's still controversial on telenovelas, but where is the rest? The only thing we've seen is Diego holding Santi's hands at the hospital, not even a hug since the accident. It is just getting on my nerves.
Veronica (Santiago's mom) is so over the top and insane. You don't know if you should cry or laugh. She is so self rigtheous and bigoted. She thinks it's wrong that her son is gay, but it's apparently ok to cheat on her husband. I hate her, someone needs to slap her. And also, the whole "parents don't accept their son is gay" is kinda lame, and I have had enough with Veronica not accepting her son. It's been going on for too long in this storyline, and it's ruining any hope for more PDA between SanDiego.
To sum it up, I'm glad that Telemundo is finally going there, finally showing some gay visibility on telenovelas without them being stereotypes. I just wish the writers would do a better job. Santi's paralysis is lame and boring, and frankly, just an excuse for them not to have sex. They need to show more consistency in their writing, because there have been some big plot holes, and the stuff they come up with just isn't that great. I don't want another version of ATWT. Santi and Diego really do need to show some more affection too, ASAP, because now it just looks like they are buddies and nothing more.
I'll still watch, because I really like the guys, and Diego is the most awesome character ever. I just hope this storyline will improve. It can't get much worse than it is right now.
Your lobbying campaign worked! Thank you Anthony for including this not so perfect but-still-important-in-the-portrayal-of-gay-characters--soap, into your GOOL playlist. For all it's camp, I can't seem to say no to SanDiego :-).
I think NRPP is a colombian telenovela (the accent is not spanish at all). And i agree with anthony, the acting is bad (they are obvious new to the acting, so maybe they improve, the first season of física o química had truly awful acting, and right now almost all the cast is able to give at least decent acting), the pacing is horrible, and the music, well the music not exactly match with the story. But even with all that, i find the storyline quite addictive, and i like it
I don't get it, everybody is complaining over the music and the cheepness of it, but that is how it's supposed to be, it's a telenovela. They are always like that, over the top and dramatic. And the music is no worse than in other novelas, I actually like the music in this one.
Maybe the acting is wodden (well, for one of them), but like I said, I still like them. Diego is definitely my favorite. The acting isn't so much of an issue like the writing is though. The paralysis thing is awful, the lack of PDA is getting on my nerves. Are they together? Or just friends? I wouldn't know. And also, Veronica needs to drop dead, like NOW! lol.
It's not really a complaint, more like an observation. I realized after watching for awhile that it was part of the genre, much like US soaps have their conventions that you have to live with. The main issue I have with it is the story, which is clearly designed to keep these boys from having sex. But even with him being paralyzed, Diego could at least touch or kiss his boyfriend. I noticed in a recent episode that when his female friends walked into the room to greet Santiago after he'd been released from the hospital, they kissed him hello or goodbye. I don't think he even got a handshake from Diego. LOL!
I don't have a problem with Veronica... I like crazy, over the top women on my soaps. But in terms of story, it's breathtaking how hateful she is towards her son. I don't have any spoilers (and do telenovelas release spoilers like other soaps do, I wonder), but I just have a bad feeling she's going to do something horrible to try and 'cure' him.
But it is watchable, if only because the boys are so likeable and appealing.
I agree, Anthony, that is my main concern about this storyline too.. lack of affection between the guys. I really hope we'll get to see more affection in the upcoming episodes. Maybe the chances for that to happen are slim, and the writers have had a double standard up till now. They are showing sex scenes with the straight characters and just ONE kiss with the gay characters. Oh well, I still have hope. I'm not giving up yet, like I said, I like the characters, so I'm holding on.
I really like the show with all it's flaws. Diego is an enjoyable character. And yes, the acting is not the best, but that's because they are new to the business, and the rythms of a telenovela is very hard for a newbie. I'm pretty sure the acting will be better (as i say the acting on the first season of física o química was horrible). I watched all the clips, and even i don't write too much, i follow every comment on NRPP forum in gays of daytime
And i don't think the storyline has nothing to do with ATWT. In fact OLTL till Nick appears, has a lot more in common with ATWT, than NRPP has
While I'm not ready to start a death vigil just yet, I don't really think there's a way to spin this as good for OLTL. Neutral, maybe, but not good. That money isn't going to go into OLTL -- if that money were available, it would have gone into capital improvements.
What confuses me is that the reports I've read said that the NETWORK requested funds and were denied. Not the producers of OLTL, not a department, but the network itself. Who would the network have appealed to and been denied by? A financial institution? The idea that ABC couldn't get a loan is the scariest thing yet. Or maybe its' just that the shareholders rejected a plan by the executives? Who knows.
Maybe it's just poor reporting from the sources I read.
First of all, thanks Anthony for speaking about NRPP.Well, I am the person who makes ths subtitles and, with the help of Mia, we make the clips together. So from there I want to thank her again for the incredible job she makes constantly ;)
After that, and concerning the show: We can not hope too much things from the show, because we can not forget this is a telenovela! I mean, I watched a lot of them during my childhood, and things are always like that... It seems nothing happens with the storyline, and one day a lot of things happen... then it's calm again, they speak about the same thing like 50 times, and after that, they go for another step in the storyline. I mean, this is normal.
Plus, I want to say I'm really in love with Santiago and Diego's characters. I mean, I recognize myself in them because they are NORMAL. I don't know how to explain it, but well... I'll try. There's nowadays a thinking that gay people, we are promiscuous, not involved in a relationship... and if I start thinking about other gays characters that I love like Scotty and Kevin from Brothers and sisters, for instance, they have not this innocence Santi and Diego have. You will tell me, that's because of their age... but well, in NRPP apart from Santi and Diego, the other characters -who have the same age they have, are bitches lol (Alejandra with Esteban/David; Esteban with Alejandra/Isabella; David with Alejandra/Juliana...)
If we don't speak about Santi's affair with Anais because he wanted to deny his sexuality... Santi and Diego are one of the most consolidated and traditional couple of the show.In fact, they are saints compared to the others. And that is important I think, because of the impression that this thing gives to the people who watch this telenovela in Colombia.
I think they can really be an help to gay people in that country, like what happened years ago in Spain with Mauri and Fernando in Aqui no hay quien viva. The characters helps to get normal the gay condition.
The role of Veronica is important to me too, because her arguments are so poor and stupid that everyone who watch the show is ashamed, and you obviously think she is crazy. Maybe it is a little bit exagerated, but I think (and I am sure because I know the actress from another telenovela, and she was not like that) this is on purpose.They want people FIRST considering a gay couple a normal one (a decent one) and SECOND watch the reaction of homophobic people with a distance and be able to say "they have no brain".
Concerning the way they act; I think Carlos Arturo Buelvas and Andrés Fierro are acting as they have too. I mean, they are supposed to be 16 or 17. I had no the same capacity for react when I was that age and now. They are still in their world, they are just opening their mind to the outside world. For me, their reactions are as they should be. We don't have to forget that they are supposed to be rich capricious boys... and they act like that (more Santiago, because he grew up without help from his family).
So, I agree with those who say they would like to see more affection between them. But we don't have to forget the context in which the show is aired: Colombia. I think, there is going to be affection between them, but we'll have to wait more. Like I said, in telenovelas, they are not really happy til the end of the show.
"Plus, Carsten and Lenny say goodbye in the German version of Good Times, Bad Times,"
Was heartbroken and also shocked when I read this but thank goodness it's storyline driven and not that the boys are exiting the soap. I am enjoying Lenny and Carsten as they have the "right amount of angst" and real enough chemistry to make them such a realistic/believable pairing.
Santi & Diego - the Cutest couple. They are also adorable. Been watching epis on You Tube.
It just sucks that these archetypes exist on foreign soaps and that I'll never walk out my door and be fortunate enough to meet a Lenny or a Carsten type or a Christian (Verboten Liebe) or Olli type or Syed (East Enders) type.
Thanks Anthony. You do a tremendous job bringing us GOOL.
Awwwww...So sad...I am Christian/Deniz/Olli/Roman/Lenny/Carsten type, Date me!!!!
In other news, yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss! yes! yes! yessss! Wow!That was great Anthony! I have to go now so, same time next week?
You guys know that if you want to see guys boinking each other (Gay porn) - you can just turn your browser to you know where and watch to your heart's delight.
I'm not one to complain about the absence of or the lack of sex for some of our Gay heart throbs as it's been shown tastefully on Alles was zählt and Verboten Leibe. What I rather see more than the implied act itself is deep devotion, passion, a longing for, a "I don't want to be here w/o you because I am really in love with you," sane scenarios play out on screen. We get that with Christian and Olli and I so love their long-standing relationship. Perhaps something similar will happen between Lenny and Carsten.
Has got to be one of the better American soaps at the moment for a pretty good, if not too bad, Gay storyline. I think the Oliver / Kyle / Nick triangle has real potential to develop into a good story. At the same time, I have been seriously rooting for Oliver and Kyle to eventually reconcile their somewhat lost relationship developing it into a new story for them, hopefully a story of new found love and passion between the two. I have at the same time been disappointed with the Luke and Noah story on As the World Turns. It seems that something which was so promising has now faded into the background at Oakdale. I am almost feeling that Luke has blown it with Noah, and maybe Noah should now focus on Mason. Unfortunately, with the residents of Oakdale, they have overwhelmed the Luke and Noah story with their tangled bed-hopping webs, I am almost wondering if the Gay storyline has been returned to the closet. As for the European soaps, now there are some great stories for the American soaps to live by! From what I have seen on Anthony Langford's Gays of Our Lives, there are some wonderful stories being played out, and they have been pretty consistent in portraying those stories on a continuing basis and have not been shy in expressing physical and / or emotional feelings between the actors. BRAVO!
by 
Lucas/Janine
I'm looking forward to Lucas vs Dex. And with Noud helping Lucas, it could get very interesting.
Not That I Didn't Like It.....
..... It's not that I didn't like the storyline. My problem was that it really much of a story, the scenes between Lucas and Janine were getting repetative and it was the only thing Lucas was really doing for the most part. And it didn't help that I found Lucas' behavior during this plot arc to be distasteful to say the least. I think it would have worked better if the show had of gotten Lucas involved in an actual real storyline and had his issues with his mother play out over a period of time, weaving in and out of his life while his own main story took prominence.
And I'm looking forward to Lucas vs Dex as well. That could be interesting.
I don't agree
We'll have to agree to disagree. I don't think their scenes were repetative. To me it was really interesting to watch. It was like things could escalate at any moment. Every episode it came a little closer to that.
It was interesting to me. Especially when you know the backstory surrounding Lucas' birth. I thought it was ironic that Janine's main concern was safe sex while Lucas himself is the result of unsafe sex. Lucas was basically a 'little accident' between Janine and Stefano, her husband's son. One of - if not the - biggest scandals in the Sanders family.
Lucas and Janine trying to reconnect with all those issues is a real storyline to me, so I guess I don't really understand what you mean when you talk about it not being an actual real storyline. You've mentioned your dislike for Lucas' behavior a couple of times now, but there were reasons, valid reasons in my opinion, why he was acting out.
And during these issues with Janine the show already started preparing the Dex/Lucas conflict so it wasn't like these issues with his mother were the only things going on in his life. I think the writers did a great job of (re)introducing the character to the canvas. They're taking their time with him and I like that a lot.
Janine and Lucas struggle is universal
I agree. The gay thing wasn't really the issue but both son and mother were using it as a buffer so as not to deal with the real hurt and disappointment they both felt about the situation.
When you live the life that Janine has then you send you kid away to be raised by his father (for better or for worse and even if he "chooses" to go) you can't expect to just pick up where you left off when he is now an 18 year old young adult who is pissed off with you for basically ignoring his entire adolescence but who desperately needs to have a connection with you despire his anger.
I think it's a very real story that happens as a result of divorce (or where the parents simply aren't together) when you have kids becoming completely disconnected emotionally and physically from a parent (usually the father) and the parent just tries to ignore that it is happening or has happened because they feel so much guilt and they focus all their attention on the kid in front of them instead of the kid that's being raised in another country or city.
I think that's by my major issue with how viewers have accessed Lucas. It's like people are ignoring the circumstances of Lucas' behavior and only focusing on each incident as though it is isolated or unrelated to the overall emotional tormoil going on with Lucas and Janine.
Janine just wanted to act like nothing had happened since Lucas was a kid and pretend that she knew him just as well as she did then because she felt guilty. Guilty about the circumstances of his birth (still, I think), guilty about letting him go live with his father, guilty about having a stronger relationship with her daughter than with Lucas and guilty for not making the effort to stay in touch with or get to know Lucas while he was gone.
A few sharp words and some sassing back from Lucas to Janine hardly compares to the mistakes Janine has made with Lucas. Respect must be earned and it goes both ways, particularly once your kid is 18 and you haven't been an actual mother to them since they were a child.
All Lucas wanted was for Janine to acknowledged that she messed up royally where he was concerned and to make the effort to get to know him again instead of just obsessing over his sexual practices (which seemed pretty normal and harmless for an 18 year old particularly by non US standards where sex is not some hidden shameful thing people are supposed to pretend they aren't doing or hide from their parents) and judging him and talking at him and ordering him around.
Obvioulsy Lucas needed to calm down too and cut Janine some slack but Janine is the parent. It is her job to be the better person, the bigger person, that's just real life.
Sometime the only thing a parent can do is know better, see the bigger picture and listen to their kid and not give up.
It think it's been a wonderful story arc and a lot more believeable then Lucas coming back to live with Janine after all those years and everything being just hunky dorry as if he'd never left and she hadn't ignored him for years.
I'm excited to see Lucas fall in love and tangle with Dex over the design stuff but I think non-romance related storylines are just a interesting for gay characters and this tangle with Janine really helped you to understand where Lucas is coming from and what's in his heart which makes him more dynamic and dimensional as a character in my eyes.
Kishfic
I know OLTL fans like to TALK about fanfic, but all I've actually found is one little ficlet. If the real thing is out there in any quantity, remember what your mother taught you*, and share!
*reader's actual maternal relationship may vary.
I've only seen one OLTL fic
There are a few on
There are a few on LJ.
http://community.livejournal.com/kyle_fish/tag/fan:+fanfiction
WooHoo!
Danke!
I should have known. LJ is always the first place fic turns up, but I never really got comfortable using it.
But, uh... I think I'll wait till I get home to read it. Hopefully some of it is NSFW. Ahem.
Also....
There's fan fic at the Kishmet board as well.
http://s1.zetaboards.com/Kishmet/index/
You have my sympathy for
You have my sympathy for being required to watch ATWT. I stopped watching at the end of 2008. I watched the occasional clip. I read this blog and am happy that 5 hours of every week aren't wasted on the characters whose credibility have been all but destroyed.
OLTL hasn't made it onto my DVR schedule (yet), but it will probably happen soon. I hope that the writers give the faux-gay marriage story some real balls (and not just Dorian's). Nick seems to be win at all costs. Oliver's opinion will be interesting considering his conservative upbringing and recent outing. I am most interested in Kyle's. Let's get a mixture of opinions that aren't too preachy, where the motivations as well as the good and bad intentions are honestly and equally portrayed. Make the (straight and gay) audience REALLY THINK about the issue.
I'm still hanging in with Verbotene Liebe, and especially with the full eps on the Das Erste site. I hope the boys get a good story soon. But that's what we say every week. On the other hand, the characters remain themselves and haven't been betrayed by plot-driven stories like another show I used to watch. The sad thing is that most stories seem to be focusing on the castle these days, and especially with the new characters being brought onto the show in the next month or so.
Also, Jo & Thore will have roles in a new movie that begins filming in March. Check out Transfer at Aachen on IMDB.
OLTL May Disappoint on That Score
I write that sentence for the first, and hopefully last, time.
Really, we haven't seen any variation in views on gay marriage. The difference of opinion is what's acceptable to get it. We have yet to see any character express disapproval of, or even mixed feelings about, the issue of gay marriage itself.
Frankly, I'm willing to accept a utopian skirting around an issue that would only upset me if they really dove into it. They're using the gay marriage issue as a springboard for a story on their show, rather than using their show as a springboard to explore the issues surrounding gay marriage.
As someone fed up with the over-earnest, preachy gay storylines of years past, filled with HIV and gaybashing and coming out stories, I'm fine with that. But if you're looking for something else, I felt it only fair to warn you.
I'm fully prepared for that possibility, but...
PLEASE! PLEASE!
PLEASE! Let me live in my Pollyanna-ish world where gays kiss and boink on daytime and are honestly portrayed with integrity and allowed to live and emote equally with their hetero counterparts.
It would be nice to see the thought-provoking issue (I've given up holding my breath when it comes to soaps) only because of the friction the opposing views might cause among the characters.
OLTL Getting Gay Married
I Don't Expect....
OLTL: What triangle?
I find OLTL to be a tedious mess. Where is the triangle? Nick and Kyle's "relationship" happens off screen. There's no connection between them on screen. Nick is simply another obstacle. Everyone knew he would do something to drive Kyle away. A real triangle has viable outcomes. The Nick/Kyle relationship never got started. One on screen date, and Nick is crying because KYle has feelings for Oliver???? Now, he's obsessed with marriage. Next week, he'll want to adopt Stacy's fetus. This feels like ATWT where they leave out all the important story beats and tell the story at warp speed.The only difference is that the chorus (David) is more interesting than the main event.
In the last few months, Fish has slept with more women than Cristian so I keep waiting for someone to say, "Hey, straight boy, what do you know about being gay? Go back to your stripper!"
The whole mayoral story is a plot driven mess with everyone acting like idiots. I think Robin Strasser was right to be concerned that this would trivialise an important issue.
Sorry, I don't agree at all.
Sorry, I don't agree at all. Now you are free to believe that the writing is crap, but it is clearly a triangle. Two young, attractive gay guys are both vying for the love of a third hot gay guy who is attracted to and has mixed feelings (for different but valid reasons) about both. This is the classic soap triangle set up. Yes, I too am unhappy about the lack of intimacy being actually shown onscreen, but I guess even on OLTL, with a gay head writer no less, that simply will not happen on American TV.
Though Kish is clearly the endgame, Nick is certainly a viable and attractive alternative for Kyle, though the election machinations aren't scoring him many Brownie points in the the Kyle sweepstakes. Given the spoilers for month end, Kyle/Nick will still be together. Could the same ever have been said about Brian or Mason on ATWT?
I find I actually care about all three characters and would be perfectly happy with any couples (hey, even Fish and Nick might be fun) being together in the near term. Is this a soap triangle? Absolutely!
I'm Not Seeing....
.... how it's NOT a triangle, especially since there's no certainty that Oliver and Kyle will get together. Right now, Kyle is torn between the two men. He's with and cares about Nick... but clearly has feelings for Oliver. Kyle and Nick are a viable couple (and Kyle is actually interested in and sleeping with) Nick, just as Oliver and Kyle would be, which in itself makes it a triangle. I also like all three men and I'd be fine if Kyle and Nick stayed together and we got to see things flourish between them. Yes, I would have liked to have seen more of the relationship develop on screen, but I get that the writers had to speed things up for story purposes and to raise the emotional stakes. I think if the show had of decided from the start that Nick was sticking around we would have seen Nick and Kyle getting to know each other, rather than the 3 week gap between Nick's appearances on the show.
It's okay to not not like the writing or the show and this certainly isn't perfect. But it is nothing like ATWT, who would never devote this much story and airtime to it's gay characters, taking the time to intergrate them with the show, have the interact with other characters and taking them out of the 'gay bubble'. Not to mention making them interesting people in a few episodes, where as ATWT can't be bothered to give their gay folks disconcernable and complex and appealing personalities even after months (or actually, years) of being on screen.
I agree...
I don't see how anyone could think that Oliver/Kyle/Nick as ANYTHING BUT a bona fide soap triangle. Heck, depending on the hour, I don't know who Kyle should be with. Lucky bitch! :o)
And as for ATWT, I guess we should be used by now that the gays there will never get more than the Rosa Parks treatment vis-a-vis airtime and quality (rather lack thereof) of writing for that couple.
Quote:In the last few
I'm not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying that because he slept with two women while he was in the closet, he can't be gay? And I'm not sure what Cristian has to do with anything. Your comment here seems a little... unfocused. Can you clarify exactly what you were trying to say?
zam...i'm with you on still
zam...i'm with you on still loving VL and Ollian. I'll be with this couple until the curtain closes. But even though they are playing supporting...Ollian do get some major screen time. They've just about been in every episode aired over the past year...either forefront or background. And if nothing else, the writers have remained very faithful to their characters...Ollian haven't moved an inch in their devotion for each other, in fact...the relationship has grown to the point where i'm sure they could finish each other's sentences. And although their deep love for each other maybe boring to some, I for one am pleased we haven't gotten a third party breakup, cheating, bed jumping or temptation...now that's what I call stepping outside the norm when it comes to TV couples. You just don't see TV couples, especially on SOAPS, loving each other up for such a long period of time without some third person intervention.
But now with Jo and Thore to star in a movie next year, and with them recently over in England meeting up with other writers of shows...who is to know what will be their future on VL. All in all it's looking pretty bright for both these actors futures with offers coming in from other countries. But if Jo and Thore choose not to renew their contracts, then I hope the writers will give them a great send off. And with fingers crossed...brake from the norm and give us fans Ollian's storyline on DVD. Now that would be fantastic!
Rich Kids, Poor Parents
Yay Telenovelas! I actually grew up with telenovelas instead of US soaps so I'm used to the campy, low-budget feel. I love them! I actually like the bits of music, especially Santiago and Diego's theme song. It's too bad that they have only subtitled midway in the storyline but I understand it's from a gracious fan.
One bit on Santiago's crippling "accident" though, it was actually a suicide attempt. Early on in the storyline before he admitted to himself that he was gay he had been constantly depressed and suicidal. But Diego kept trying to convince him that life wasn't all bad. The night of the accident was when Santiago admitted his feelings for Diego but was still intent on taking his life so he crashed his motorcycle on a post.
Veronica, Santiago's crazy mom, is pure camp though and I love watching her. Aurora who is Diego's awesome mom had a wonderful and touching scene with Diego when he came out. And Diego recently told off Veronica while he was over visiting Santiago at his house. It was very funny.
On another note, If having gay characters was something rare for U.S. soaps it's still something even more rare for telenovelas. They have had gay characters before but usually nothing more than stereotypes. This is something really new for telenovelas so I welcome any chance at gay visibility. I agree that the acting can be very wooden and really my hopes aren't very high but the actor who plays Diego is soooo very cute. And the Telenovela format allows for a story to have a beginning and an end. Telenovelas usually run for 8-10 months and then end in a Gran Finale. So at least we will have some closure with SanDiego and not have to worry about future storylines.
Gay Exposure
You know, I admit one thing that I hadn't thought of or it hadn't ocurred to me was if there are a lot of postive gay depictions in the telenovela. Is this really one of the first?
Santiago's mom was very interesting to watch. The actress sure gets into the role, that's for sure. There wasn't a bit of scenery that didn't have her teeth marks on it.
I am looking forward to seeing how this plays out... and it's because the two boys are so likeable. You just want to see these two sweet kids find their happy ending.
Hey how
A flight from Germany to LA
VL's colors
Fashion Police!
I really hate the clothes they put the boys in, especially Olli. The garish colors are a bit much for me. And every once in awhile they'll put Olli in a really bright scarf, which actually makes me kinda nauseous.
Rich Kids, Poor Parents and SanDiego
I have been uploading the clips while the guy who run SanDiegoSubs have been subtitling them.
The first half of the storyline was good. Of course there were some stupid plot holes here and there, and stuff that didn't really make any sense. I really enjoyed the push and pull and the conflicts between Santiago and Diego though. It was obvious Santi struggled with his sexuality and Diego knew from the start he was gay. Diego had a very emotional coming out scene too, probably my favorite scene of the storyline.
I really do admire the writers for giving us this gay storyline, and they even have a lesbian storyline on the same soap. It's nice to see normal gay teens, struggling with other stuff too. Showing that being gay is not everything they are, like they have focused on Santi's depression and suicide thoughts and his family problems. I also think it's great they portray gay teens in a positive light, just as other teens, and not as stupid stereotypes.
The main issue when it comes to this storyline is obviously the similarities between RPPP and ATWT. ATWT is awful and it's not exactly something good to copy. The paralysis part of Nuke was probably the second worst part of their storyline, Ameera is the only one who managed to top that as the definitely worst. I just can't stand the fact that they made Santi paralyzed. We speculated if they would make him have amnesia or be paralyzed, and if it would be temporary or permanent. I am glad they made him paralyzed if amnesia was the only other option, because then we would have to start all over again! But of course, I wish they didn't make him paralyzed in the first place. This is just awful writing and an excuse for them not to have any sex. And this is my other major concern with this storyline, the lack of affection between them. They already showed them kiss once. The kiss was akward and not good, but I suppose that's normal with the first gay kiss. But they haven't really showed any PDA since Santi had that motorcycle accident. I understand the sex part, that it's still controversial on telenovelas, but where is the rest? The only thing we've seen is Diego holding Santi's hands at the hospital, not even a hug since the accident. It is just getting on my nerves.
Veronica (Santiago's mom) is so over the top and insane. You don't know if you should cry or laugh. She is so self rigtheous and bigoted. She thinks it's wrong that her son is gay, but it's apparently ok to cheat on her husband. I hate her, someone needs to slap her. And also, the whole "parents don't accept their son is gay" is kinda lame, and I have had enough with Veronica not accepting her son. It's been going on for too long in this storyline, and it's ruining any hope for more PDA between SanDiego.
To sum it up, I'm glad that Telemundo is finally going there, finally showing some gay visibility on telenovelas without them being stereotypes. I just wish the writers would do a better job. Santi's paralysis is lame and boring, and frankly, just an excuse for them not to have sex. They need to show more consistency in their writing, because there have been some big plot holes, and the stuff they come up with just isn't that great. I don't want another version of ATWT. Santi and Diego really do need to show some more affection too, ASAP, because now it just looks like they are buddies and nothing more.
I'll still watch, because I really like the guys, and Diego is the most awesome character ever. I just hope this storyline will improve. It can't get much worse than it is right now.
Harvey Milk: You gotta give 'em hope.
Congrats Mia!
Not spanish
Yeah, it's Colombian.
I don't get it, everybody is complaining over the music and the cheepness of it, but that is how it's supposed to be, it's a telenovela. They are always like that, over the top and dramatic. And the music is no worse than in other novelas, I actually like the music in this one.
Maybe the acting is wodden (well, for one of them), but like I said, I still like them. Diego is definitely my favorite. The acting isn't so much of an issue like the writing is though. The paralysis thing is awful, the lack of PDA is getting on my nerves. Are they together? Or just friends? I wouldn't know. And also, Veronica needs to drop dead, like NOW! lol.
Harvey Milk: You gotta give 'em hope.
The Main Issue Is The Story...
It's not really a complaint, more like an observation. I realized after watching for awhile that it was part of the genre, much like US soaps have their conventions that you have to live with. The main issue I have with it is the story, which is clearly designed to keep these boys from having sex. But even with him being paralyzed, Diego could at least touch or kiss his boyfriend. I noticed in a recent episode that when his female friends walked into the room to greet Santiago after he'd been released from the hospital, they kissed him hello or goodbye. I don't think he even got a handshake from Diego. LOL!
I don't have a problem with Veronica... I like crazy, over the top women on my soaps. But in terms of story, it's breathtaking how hateful she is towards her son. I don't have any spoilers (and do telenovelas release spoilers like other soaps do, I wonder), but I just have a bad feeling she's going to do something horrible to try and 'cure' him.
But it is watchable, if only because the boys are so likeable and appealing.
I agree.
I agree, Anthony, that is my main concern about this storyline too.. lack of affection between the guys. I really hope we'll get to see more affection in the upcoming episodes. Maybe the chances for that to happen are slim, and the writers have had a double standard up till now. They are showing sex scenes with the straight characters and just ONE kiss with the gay characters. Oh well, I still have hope. I'm not giving up yet, like I said, I like the characters, so I'm holding on.
Harvey Milk: You gotta give 'em hope.
As i say
I really like the show with all it's flaws. Diego is an enjoyable character. And yes, the acting is not the best, but that's because they are new to the business, and the rythms of a telenovela is very hard for a newbie. I'm pretty sure the acting will be better (as i say the acting on the first season of física o química was horrible). I watched all the clips, and even i don't write too much, i follow every comment on NRPP forum in gays of daytime
And i don't think the storyline has nothing to do with ATWT. In fact OLTL till Nick appears, has a lot more in common with ATWT, than NRPP has
Who cares about HD?
OLTL Not in HD
While I'm not ready to start a death vigil just yet, I don't really think there's a way to spin this as good for OLTL. Neutral, maybe, but not good. That money isn't going to go into OLTL -- if that money were available, it would have gone into capital improvements.
What confuses me is that the reports I've read said that the NETWORK requested funds and were denied. Not the producers of OLTL, not a department, but the network itself. Who would the network have appealed to and been denied by? A financial institution? The idea that ABC couldn't get a loan is the scariest thing yet. Or maybe its' just that the shareholders rejected a plan by the executives? Who knows.
Maybe it's just poor reporting from the sources I read.
Disney
NRPP
First of all, thanks Anthony for speaking about NRPP.Well, I am the person who makes ths subtitles and, with the help of Mia, we make the clips together. So from there I want to thank her again for the incredible job she makes constantly ;)
After that, and concerning the show: We can not hope too much things from the show, because we can not forget this is a telenovela! I mean, I watched a lot of them during my childhood, and things are always like that... It seems nothing happens with the storyline, and one day a lot of things happen... then it's calm again, they speak about the same thing like 50 times, and after that, they go for another step in the storyline. I mean, this is normal.
Plus, I want to say I'm really in love with Santiago and Diego's characters. I mean, I recognize myself in them because they are NORMAL. I don't know how to explain it, but well... I'll try. There's nowadays a thinking that gay people, we are promiscuous, not involved in a relationship... and if I start thinking about other gays characters that I love like Scotty and Kevin from Brothers and sisters, for instance, they have not this innocence Santi and Diego have. You will tell me, that's because of their age... but well, in NRPP apart from Santi and Diego, the other characters -who have the same age they have, are bitches lol (Alejandra with Esteban/David; Esteban with Alejandra/Isabella; David with Alejandra/Juliana...) If we don't speak about Santi's affair with Anais because he wanted to deny his sexuality... Santi and Diego are one of the most consolidated and traditional couple of the show.In fact, they are saints compared to the others. And that is important I think, because of the impression that this thing gives to the people who watch this telenovela in Colombia. I think they can really be an help to gay people in that country, like what happened years ago in Spain with Mauri and Fernando in Aqui no hay quien viva. The characters helps to get normal the gay condition.
The role of Veronica is important to me too, because her arguments are so poor and stupid that everyone who watch the show is ashamed, and you obviously think she is crazy. Maybe it is a little bit exagerated, but I think (and I am sure because I know the actress from another telenovela, and she was not like that) this is on purpose.They want people FIRST considering a gay couple a normal one (a decent one) and SECOND watch the reaction of homophobic people with a distance and be able to say "they have no brain". Concerning the way they act; I think Carlos Arturo Buelvas and Andrés Fierro are acting as they have too. I mean, they are supposed to be 16 or 17. I had no the same capacity for react when I was that age and now. They are still in their world, they are just opening their mind to the outside world. For me, their reactions are as they should be. We don't have to forget that they are supposed to be rich capricious boys... and they act like that (more Santiago, because he grew up without help from his family).
So, I agree with those who say they would like to see more affection between them. But we don't have to forget the context in which the show is aired: Colombia. I think, there is going to be affection between them, but we'll have to wait more. Like I said, in telenovelas, they are not really happy til the end of the show.
Lenny & Carsten and Santi & Diego
"Plus, Carsten and Lenny say goodbye in the German version of Good Times, Bad Times,"
Was heartbroken and also shocked when I read this but thank goodness it's storyline driven and not that the boys are exiting the soap. I am enjoying Lenny and Carsten as they have the "right amount of angst" and real enough chemistry to make them such a realistic/believable pairing.
Santi & Diego - the Cutest couple. They are also adorable. Been watching epis on You Tube.
It just sucks that these archetypes exist on foreign soaps and that I'll never walk out my door and be fortunate enough to meet a Lenny or a Carsten type or a Christian (Verboten Liebe) or Olli type or Syed (East Enders) type.
Thanks Anthony. You do a tremendous job bringing us GOOL.
Awwww
Awwwww...So sad...I am Christian/Deniz/Olli/Roman/Lenny/Carsten type, Date me!!!!
In other news, yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss! yes! yes! yessss! Wow!That was great Anthony! I have to go now so, same time next week?
Call me.
Felt I just needed to say this about the "no sex"
You guys know that if you want to see guys boinking each other (Gay porn) - you can just turn your browser to you know where and watch to your heart's delight.
I'm not one to complain about the absence of or the lack of sex for some of our Gay heart throbs as it's been shown tastefully on Alles was zählt and Verboten Leibe. What I rather see more than the implied act itself is deep devotion, passion, a longing for, a "I don't want to be here w/o you because I am really in love with you," sane scenarios play out on screen. We get that with Christian and Olli and I so love their long-standing relationship. Perhaps something similar will happen between Lenny and Carsten.
I'M THINKING ONE LIFE TO LIVE