i love spoilers my dear but isn't the picture seen on the first page introducing GOOL a major spoiler? some might get angry at you for posting that pic. i'm not one of them though! I LOVE THAT PIC!!!!!! but i have to admit it is a major spoiler for this friday's episode.
I think i said before that kyle (brett, whatever) looks much better and put together in anything but those long, button down shirts. the show needs to realize that and stick with NOT putting him in those again.
soaps never know how to dress their characters. one of my pet peeves.
Anthony please tell me,is Nick been out of picture after Kyle drooped him for Oliver? you didn't say anything about his fate,i love him so much and i'm hoped to see him more than that,poor guy,he doesn't deserve it...is it over with all love triangle on OLTL?
I'm so glad he is staying! yeah! it's would be wonderful if writers will keep the triangle story for longer and then find for Nick another hot man,maybe Kyle has a twin brother? huh? :)
Maybe Nick could either be a cousin or brother of Tea. (Even though that means, Nick didn't give a crap about Tea after the whole kerfuffle of Blair being defenestrated during Dorian's coming-out presscon!)
I think the show might reveal that Nick is related to someone on the canvas, but my guess would be that it would be Markko for instant conflict with the Rivera family. Tea would be a good choice though.
Anthony, sorry but Y&R is not anywhere close to being in a creative freefall. I agree the gay characters and storyline have been a creative joke, but the show remains far and away the best soap on (American) television. There is a reason it has been #1 for so long (20 years and counting). And FYI Eric Braden has been signed to continue as Victor Newman. For all the public sparing over his contract negotiations, never in a million years would they really let Victor Newman go. Even in a recession.
....the show is quite frankly, unwatchable. Y&R used to be about glamor and romance and passion and corporate intrigue. Now it's dark and ugly and violent and the plots have gotten terribly outlandish and hard to believe (even for a soap), especially the recent baby switch and now someone turning up who just happens to look like crazy Patty, which is the third or fourth lookalike to turn up in the last few years. And don't get me started on the ridiculous art storyline, which I dare anybody to explain so it makes sense. Not to mention another Fisher/Baldwin showing up as they are killing off the core Abbott family bit by bit. I feel the show is quite bad and I would be hard pressed to watch even if they had gay characters front and center, which is why I made the comment that I did. The show needs to lighten up, focus on romance and it's couples and do more business stories which used to be it's bread and butter. And they need to do some housecleaning as they have far to many characters who have outlived their usefulness and interest. And yes, I know that EB resigned his contract, which was announced after the deadline of this column. To me it's been a horrendous year for the show and they really need to do some serious rethinking about the overall direction.
I agree. ATWT has gone through quite a long period recently where the writing (not just the plots, but the characterizations and dialog as well) has taken a severe downswing from what I first saw at the start of the Nuke pairing, in my opinion, but even still I'm interested enough to watch each episode all the way through. Even if that means venting my frustrations by yelling at my TV.
Out of the three, Y&R is the only soap that I DVR and put off watching until the weekends so that I can fast forward through a whole week's worth of episodes in roughly an hour. It's rather astounding that in spite of all that talent in the cast they still manage to make the show so uninteresting.
If the mere sight of Michael Muhney didn't make my pulse quicken the way it does, I wouldn't bother following Y&R at all.
the only reason I watch this wreck! Well - JT would skin it would be a better draw - but he ain't in the next months.
The real reason that Y&R is #1 is that it is on at lunch time. Think of the "audience" - this is the time they have to sit down and pig out or take a break at work that won't get them fired.
Michael Muhney's sexy ass is what keeps me glued to this show. And with him as Adam, I was really hoping we would get the next "Victor Newman" who was ironically borne by someone who couldn't be more diametrically opposite TGVN's moral compass.
Frankly, I am so sick of Eric Braeden's tacky and public maneuverings to get his salary issues worked when 15.1 million Americans are out of work while he's essentially having a hissy fit over having to subsist on "only" $1M/annum. I so wanted TGVN gone, but he's staying. I just hope Adam brings TGVN to his knees and kicks TGVN to the curb big time.
Billy Miller is a hit or miss for me. He's such a charmer, but he can be such a tool too.
Oh, and the rest of the show is one hot mess. I hate the art story. I'm sick of Sharon/Nick/Phyllis, the Fisher-Bald wins. ANEMIA Heinle's Victoria. Blecch. So much garbage to fast-forward.
Short story, despite being No. 1 at the ratings, which I don't think it deserves, Y&R is in a creative freefall right now. DAYS, believe it or not, is doing much better than its fellow Sony-owned sudser.
I am always humored by people who respond to criticism of Y&R by noting that it's still the #1 show in daytime. I always ask them to remember two things: first, that NCIS is the #1 show in primetime--no one takes that as evidence that that show is better than Mad Men, though. And second, saying that you're the best show in daytime is like saying you're the best player on the LA Clippers. It's not much of an accomplishment to be atop a sinking ship.
Y&R may be getting the viewers but it is not the best soap in daytime. I can't go as far as Anthony to and say it's unwatchable (due largely to epic performances by Beth Maitland, Peter Bergman and Billy Miller) but it's certainly approaching that level.
On a show where corporate intrigue used to be its bread and butter, to see Billy Miller buy Restless Style from Phyllis and Nick almost overnight, without a contract...it's just an insult to the show's legacy. And with the death of yet another member of the Abbotts, the next generation battle with the Abbotts and the Newmans (that CBS is so heavily promoting) is 3 against 1. Ridiculous.
I mean, really...
Ashley goes from teetering on the verge of insanity to lucid enough to go toe to toe with Victor virtually overnight.
Patty's therapist shows up and--surprise!--has the same face as her...just like Y&R's done with Sheila/Phyllis, John Abbott/Alistair Wallingford and William and Jeffrey Bardwell.
The gay storylines are horrendous but at least when Chance (aka the most boring character in the history of soaps) gets stabbed in an upcoming episode, Phillip and Nina get to be by his side in the hospital. By comparison, the Winters family has been largely MIA while Lily undergoes treatment for cancer AND loses her best friend.
It's just a God awful mess.
I'm not sure what you've been reading but, from the accounts that I've seen, Sony was absolutely ready to let Eric Braeden go. He went out, threw a public temper tantrum (which makes anything that Victoria Rowell's been accused of look like SMALL POTATOES) and eventually conceded to Sony's demands. Sony knew that if they allowed Braeden to get away with not taking the paycut, they'd have a mutiny on their hands from other cast members who had, so they had to stay strong. They did and Braeden folded.
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"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught inan inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment ofdestiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly." - MLK
pecola, if NCSI is the #1 show 20 years from now (and has been #1 all of those 20 years), I will take back what I said. Y&R has not been #1 because people have nothing better to do during their lunch hour. Becuase of the way the gay stories have been handled (any word 10 times stronger than awful) has angered everyone here, and the show has been written off. I look forward to the show everyday. Sure, like every other soap, there are characters that are boring and storylines that go on too long. But Y&R has been consistent in cast, writers, quality over its 36 years, with the best cast on daytime. If you don't like it, don't watch. I was disagreeing with Anthony's comment Y&R was in a creative freefall. It's not. Since there are no longer any gay stories they will be telling, Anythony won't have to pain himself by watching the show. There is no reason for it to be included in GOOL. I will continue to watch and be entertained, regardless if there are gay characters or not.
I concede that Y&R is indeed not what it should be. I find myself rolling my eyes and screaming at the TV screen much like I was three years ago with Lyne Marie Lantham at the helm. This I didn't expect from Maria Arena Bell and co.
What I give Y&R credit for is that they usually mine from their past pretty well. And it is the "respect" for past that is part of why people are still tuning in after all these years. I feel the really big reason they get viewers IMO is their power house cast members; Eric Braeden as Victor, Melody Thomas Scott as Nikki and Jeanne Cooper as Katherine. Despite this flare up with Braeden the show knows that with these three actors in these three roles they'll get people to watch. These characters have driven story for the past 20 years, especially Victor and Nikki.
The state of the storylines is a mess. The biggest offense for me has been the death of Colleen. I had just FINALLY started to appreciate the character of Colleen again. I was not a fan of the recast. I was fan of Adrienne Leon in the role. But after Colleen's dad, Brad, was killed off Colleen stood up for her dad against TGVN and that I had to give her props for. Yes Colleen's death did garner some excellent performances all around. I was left in tears during numerous Abbott family scenes and was especially moved by Beth Maitland as Colleen's mom, Traci. But being a ride or die fan of the Abbott family I am still very upset that they killed off a next generation Abbott. Even moreso that Victor got Colleen's heart. I can understand her death being a catalyst to spark the next generation Abbott/Newman feud but really there isn't really anyone to take on the Newmans other than Billy now. Colleen had proven that she could have been a good adversary to TGVN and his demon spawn. Seems like such a waste and a big loss for the Abbotts. Again.
The baby switch story is so full of holes it's not even funny. And after all the loss Sharon has suffered I find it frustrating that she's mourning the loss of a third child in her short life. The stolen painting story made no sense and the actions of the Drab Four within said story made even less sense. I did enjoy Deacon's one liner's though. The only interesting thing to come out of that is finding out who is the mother of Kevin's new brother. She's got Deacon scared and has it in for Lauren and Michaeil (who are due for a storyline). Lily's cancer story is completely uninteresting simpling because Lily is completely uninteresting and Cane even less so. And yet again we have "poor Lily, the victim". When has this girl not been crapped on by something/someone in her life? She's so pathetic. Adam's machinations are well due to be outted. I guess we have another couple years a la Gloria before he's truly found out. I can't say I don't enjoy him putting the screws to that horrible Victoria and the sanctimonious Nick. But for what he did to Ashley and Sharon, he really needs to be put away.
As cooky as it was I liked the Patty storyline. I enjoyed Stacy Haiduk's portrayal immensely. And I think the show's brass did too which is probably why they've brought on Patty's shrink, Emily Peterson, who's face Patty took. I'm not a fan of lookalike stories. But Emily standing up to Victor (who hasn't changed a lick since beating death) has me intrigued to see what she's about.
Despite all that is wrong with Y&R I still feel the show has the best production values of any of the soaps on American TV along with a very talented cast of actors. With more focus on actually likeable, romantic couples (Nick and Phyllis, Mac and Billy and Lily and Cane are not it - sorry), more boardroom shenanigans & non-Swiss cheese plots you can drive a semi through, the show can get back on track. I'm not at the point where I am ready to tune out. I was seriously thinking about it under LML. So in my mind Y&R isn't on its last leg yet.
Once upon a time I died. And like my namesake I got better.
As for Kyle and Fish taking it slow, Thank god! Atleast it shows we are not all sluts (though admittedly alot, including me, have a slutty period) it's good to show people we have depth sometime.
I can't get interested in Kyle/Fish/Nick. The writing has been all about the story rather than the characters. Why should I care about Kyle and Nick as a couple? The show never invested in them so I never wanted to see what happened with them. If they had made them a legitimate part of a triangle, I would have tuned in every day. Instead, the story forced them together, and Nick's character has been poorly written from the get go. It's a real shame because these never before seen moments would mean so much more if they were character based rather than plot driven. There was no reason to tell this story at so fast a pace. When you do that, you miss all the beats, and as a viewer, I tune out when it's all about the story and not about the characters.
Conversely, why should I want to see Kyle with Oliver? Oliver spent the summer sleeping with women and treating Kyle abominably. All is forgiven because he came out?? Please! Having a difficult time coming out does not excuse a person's behavior to someone else. If the show had depicted Oliver making amends over a period of time, I might be interested, but the show consistently excuses and condones emotional and physical abuse committed by its male characters.
...and I'm sure you're thinking "More time than 5 days a week?" Yes. I wish they had time to tell us more about these characters, develop Nick into something other than a tool to bring Oliver and Kyle together and allow the writers to make a marriage point.
I agree 100% that the relationship between Nick and Kyle was not developed enough. At least not enough that we should feel sad that Kyle and Oliver will end up together instead of Nick and Kyle. But we were never suppose to care, I guess. It was always a given that Kyle and Oliver would be the couple. And now that it's about to happen it's almost a let down. Next comes the baby story and talk about BORING!
Also...don't ask me why, but while I was watching today's episode I couldn't help but wonder where the hell Nick and Kyle's gays friends are. In the real world they would had a circle of friends...they are planninga faux wedding..where are their gay and straight friedns to wish them well or tell them they are stupid. Ah, soaps...
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It really doesn't get any more adorkable than this: Video
Thank Microsoft for donating $$$ to Approve 71 in Washington...use Bing.com for a week.
The show does have plenty of time to develop Nick, Kyle, and Fish into characters. They choose to concentrate more on the story. Why couldn't this election story have taken place in February? I do not understand the rationale for rushing this story.
IF you're trying to raise ratings, why tell a story where the viewers are never in doubt how it will end? If the show had written the Nick and Kyle with all the beats presented (as they do sometimes painstakingly with almost every other story on the show), viewers would be divided about who they want for Kyle, and that's a great thing for a show. Instead, Nick is a plot point, and the relationship is non-existent so proposals and marriages mean nothing. Nothing to me anyway.
If anything, the most compelling relationships in this story are between Christian and Oliver and Kyle and Roxy.
Why couldn't this election story have taken place in February?
Um, because we typically hold elections in November?
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"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught inan inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment ofdestiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly." - MLK
It could have been a special election held in February. IF we're meant to believe that a lesbian marriage is going to sway votes Dorian's way, a special election is not outside the realm of possibilities.
For MONTHS Todd and Tea and Blair have had the same damn scenes. Over and over we get these tired reasons to try to tell us why Todd and Tea are soulmates.
We never saw any buildup for Kyle/Fish or for Kyle/Nick. They are all basically strangers to the audience. How many, besides gay viewers, will even care?
I hope they aren't going to turn Nick evil, I'm tired of psychos on this show.
On Katherine Mayfair - I also agree she's really getting quite annoying for me... She seems too petty and small I just wanna pinch and kill her off straight away.I really thought Bob and Lee would become the 5th/6th/7th (whichever slot) Housewives (at least Bob) since they came living in Wisteria Lane. But no... that didn't happen. As much as I hate to see Karen go, I hope they don't kill the gays... Mo before (old) ho...
but its becoming very frustrating to read your bleak and narrow expectations for gay/queer characters and seeming acceptance and pressumtion of homophobia - don't be confident, proud or cocksure so's not to upset anyone.
I have to say though that Lucas' need to challenge everybody with acceptance of his sexuality is getting old. Not everybody is going to be okay with someone being gay, and that’s a fact of life. And even if folks don’t care whether someone is gay or not, they don't necessarily want to have it be a point of conversation or thrown in their faces constantly. Maybe one day Lucas will realize that.
personality and unique characters are always better.
IAWTC. Anthony, you do a bang-up job with this column, but I found your comment about 'thrown in their faces constantly' a little gay-as-blazes.
Lucas's desire to hear his new friend's view of his sexual orientation seemed perfectly reasonable to me, and I actually thought the show had Lucas handle the exchange fairly maturely (by his standards). Just like he does with everything, Lucas niggled until he got a reaction, but when he got one, he was funny and pleasant about it.
Besides, Lucas's personality is to throw everything in everyone's face as often as possible. For him to make an exception for his sexuality would be OOC. I find that obnoxiousness in his personality makes him fun to watch, and I certainly hope the show doesn't cure him of it.
Clearly, the GTST writers have been curled up with their QAF DVDs and are giving us 'Brian Kinney - the early years'. Perhaps this men's clothing line nonsense will lead to Lucas devising a brilliantly (if implausibly) successful marketing campaign based on the objectification of male bodies, to the delight of his bosses and Dex's frustration...
A daytime Brian would be a good thing. There are plenty of straight antiheroes insoap. A gay one would be a fun new departure. What would really be a shame for this character is if Lucas lost his zest for manipulating people and pushing their buttons. If Lucas sticks around long enough to be hit by the usual catalogue of soap adversity, I hope that rather than taming him, disappointment will help Lucas get better at picking (and winning) his battles, like all the best lovable rogues.
I'll put my life in danger here and say that I absolutely loathed the character of Brian Kinney and he is the sole reason that quit watching QAF. So if that's the type of character this show is going for (and I pray it isn't) then me and Lucas will part company fairly quickly.
Look, there is nothing wrong with being confident and proud of who you are. It's what we all should be. And I like that Lucas can be manipulative and a bit of a schemer. It makes him a fun, interesting character. But his behavior with Noud left a bad taste in my mouth. For him, many times everything comes down to his sexuality and when you get older and smarter and grow up, you realize life isn't like that. And at some point, I hope Lucas learns those lessons.
And one man's lovable rogue is another's 'annoying, childish brat'.
Lucas is really annoying but he is so funny to watch. Right now i can't stand Dex, and i'm not sure about wanting Lucas being involved with Dex. And talking about Dex and Queer as folk, i'm the only one who finds that Dex looks like the guy who played Michael on QAF?
I don't see what the problem is with Lucas' behavior in his scenes with Noud. Noud didn't have any reaction, not once, but twice, so Lucas just asked him. That doesn't mean he's making everything about his sexuality. I think it makes sense when you're starting a new friendship. The uneasyness of it all. Lucas probably didn't want another "Dex". To me it was like Lucas was making sure straight Noud was okay with having gay Lucas as a friend.
I'm a huge fan of QAF US.
I've seen every episode of all 5 seasons multiple times and I own the
DVDs. Huge Brian Kinney fan as well. But everything isn't about QAF.
Brian Kinney in only one gay character is a very wide and deep sea of gay
characters. He may have been the end all be all iconic gay for some viewers but
I don't think we should assume that he is for everyone.
I don't think Lucas is even remotely like Brian Kinney and I see no evidence
that the writers of this soap want him to be or intend for him to be.
Brian was miserable a good deal of the time in his teens. Lucas is not. Lucas is who Brian maybe could
have been if he hadn't been so emotionally and physically abused by the time he
was 18. That's the only comparison I'd make really.
I don't like ascribing motives and intentions to writers of a tv show
without evidence because I think it does the show and the writers a disservice.
Some times it is clear when writer are influenced or paying homage to characters that have come before but I don't see that here.
Lucas is 18 and he had a few one night stands (most of which were
attempts to get Janine to deal with him). He's no different than most straight male characters his age who spend their lives trying to figure out how to get girls into bed accept getting boys into bed is a lot less difficult when you're a gay teen.
If straight boys could get girls to have sex in hotel elevators 5 minutes after
meeting them, I'm sure they'd be all over it.
Lucas didn't know Noud at all. He was a complete stranger who helped him out. They clearly connected in the bar after Dex
attacked him but I think Lucas just wanted to get the gay issue on the table
and then out of the way. I'm glad he challenged Noud and even more glad
that Noud was up to the challenge and answerd Lucas' questions with no muss no fuss.
I saw no discomfort about it between the two characters.
We've all had that new friend who chose to deal with the knowledge that we are gay by ignoring it (not because they didn't care but because it made them uncomfortable). Some of us just don't want to have to deal with another person's discomfort about who WE are.
Lucas simply wanted to know if Noud was homophobic or had any issues being
his friend because lots of straight guys that age would and do and after his experiences with Dex (which are 90% unprovoked) he needed to be sure.
Lucas chose to be direct about it. I applaud that. Now Lucas knows he doesn't have to worry about it and he and Noud can get to know each and all is well.
I think many of us wish we had been as able or willing to just grab our straight friend's
hand and drag him around with us and be totally comfortable and out as a teen.
I LOVED that scene with Lucas and Noud getting ready to go to the club after work and Lucas dragging Noud by the hand upstairs
without it being a big deal or thinking we he had to be "careful".
Clearly Noud doesn't have a problem with Lucas since he's picking him up from work and hanging out with him all the time.
I know we as gays have very different ideas about how other gays should
behave.
Some of us are "but for the fact that I like same-sex-sex, I'm just
like straight folks" gays.
Some of us are flag waving, in-your-face "I'm here I'm queer, get used
to it" gays.
Lucas could be a completely successful human being either way.
I decided long ago that I'm going to have a love/hate 'relationship' with Lucas. I don't see that changing unless the character does (not that he has to). As for the recent episodes, I haven't seen them yet. I save the foriegn soaps for weekend viewing. But I'm looking forward to it!
i find it very entertaining and moving at the same time. for one - this is a soap opera. just as long as they don't make nick shoot all the brides at the wedding in a fit of anger then i'm okay with it. but then again - this is a soap opera - so they CAN do that. they have like an artistic license to suspend reality to suit a specific storyline.
they can do soooo many things with the relationship with kyle and nick. i agree. but really it was quite obvious from the get-go that nick is only there to move the storyline of oliver and kyle. so i did not invest too much on the relationship of nyle.
but i find the love story of kyle and fish very moving even though we only have our imagination of what really happened between them during their college days. thru the great acting and the writing you can see and feel that both kyle and oliver are really in love. some people may not see it, but obviously, A LOT of people do or else we wouldn't have hundreds of posts here and at other soap blogs falling in love with the show.
if someone constantly says - that wouldn't happen "in the real world" - i say - yes - you're absolutely right - it won't. this is soap opera land where children age within days and one night may last for a month. i've heard they even have magic and alien abductions. puhlease!.... soapland is not the real world!
winning an election by declaring one a lesbian? never gonna happen. only in soapland. but what is the heart of the storyline? - it is the love story of kyle and oliver. the emotional rollercoaster of our two heroes. i love today's episode because they don't patronize nor glorify gay marriage per se as if making a political statement. everyone knows everything is not legal. it is all for show.... the heart of the matter is the LOVE of oliver and kyle - THE LOVE OF TWO MEN WHO HAVE TO ENDURE THE PAINS OF COMING OUT, THE DISASTER OF LYING TO ONESELF, OF PARENTS DISOWNING YOU, OF LOVE AGAINST ALL ODDS.... that's what it is all about. not the political struggle. BUT THE HUMAN STRUGGLE. that's what rural america are witnessing now - the humanity and not the politics of gay marriages. they are witnessing TWO MEN IN LOVE.
after all is said and done, one thing is certain - From June to November 2, 2009, One Life To Live gave us a beautiful, moving, funny, and entertaining gay love story. and that's the real deal.
I'm in the minority since most everyone on this site is enamored with the OLTL storyline. It's an erratic mess in my book. I feel like people are judging the show based on what they want to see rather than what's on the screen. Even its supporters agree that Nick has not been fully developed and that the relationship was just a pit stop for Kyle. Since that's the case, what compels me as a viewer to care or tune in? Why wouldn't I wait to watch until November 2 if nothing else on the show holds my interest?
A well-written show starts with the characters. The Nick/Kyle/Fish triangle could have been played for months. It could have been a Robert/Eden/Cruz type triangle--a triangle where both couplings had a large fan base. Instead, they treat the character of Nick with disregard, and they spend weeks on a relationship that means nothing. It's only a means to an end. Yes, the show is breaking new ground, but if that new ground is not based in character and is not well plotted, it makes for an empty viewing experience.
First, let me state that I am not a soap opera fan. I find them over the top, poorly written and poorly acted. So my love of the Kyle-Oliver-Nick storyline is not out of some sort of loyalty to the show or the genre.
Your opinion as I have gathered is that OLTL is spending too much time driving their plotlines and as such their characters are poorly developed.
Yet the characters are the reason I keep watching. I could care less about the plot; it doesn't matter who wins the election, what happens to Oliver's job or how Kyle does in med school. Sure, the plot adds support and it's interesting and fresh, but the real reason I watch is the characters. I agree that the Kyle-Nick relationship lacked attention, but the dynamics between the three points of this triangle is what makes this a winning story. I'm rooting for Oliver and Kyle because the love between them is almost tangible. Yes Oliver treated Kyle badly, but Kyle can't help who he loves, and Oliver loves him back and that's really all that matters. I feel for Nick too, as it sucks to get your heart broken.
If you really want to know what a crappy show is, just turn on As the World Turns. I used to care about Luke and Noah, and now I could care less.
ever since word broke that OLTL was doing a gay storyline. Every gay outlet started praising it,before anything happened on screen. Fans started rooting for Oliver/Kyle to be together because they shared a past offscreen. Basically we got another coming out story, a kiss and poor Nick thrown in the middle of this great gay love story.
I'm a faithful veiwer of OLTL for over 20 years and i'm left with a zillion questions. Where was the character devolpment? Why was this storyline rushed, while other take sometimes years to play out? I don't understand,why Kyle is still pining for Oliver, while he was screwing every woman in town? Why introduce Nick just to make him look like a dope for falling for the wrong guy again?
Overall I was expecting more from this story, since the headwriter and executive producer are openly gay.
Very well put Madeleine and forever 29. I will say I am loving OLTL and think for the most part the gay story has been excellent. I also like very much how Fish is involved in the other storylines just as a cop, his relationship with McBain, etc. Nick however is wooden and has no chemistry with Kyle. But be careful for criticizing ANYTHING here which includes any sort of gay content. Right now OLTL is the site's darling. So you "are wrong!" in your opinion. ;) The second the show lets up on the gay story, or puts it on the back burner, the readers here will turn faster than my head if I passed Alexander Skarsgard on the street. If and when that happens, you will "be right" in your opinion, so hang in there.
I'm one of the biggest OLTL fans here, but I'll honestly agree with you that Nick is the weak link in the story--the failure to fully develop his character and the relationship between Nick and Kyle is a, let's admit it, glaring flaw in an otherwise terrific story. And while Nicholas Rodriguez is certainly attractive, his acting does leave much to be desired (tho, perhaps that's due to the scripts not giving him much to work with).
I'm not so blind in my devotion to the show to recognize that it isn't perfect. But what it does get right is better than anything else out there right now. And I'm enjoying the ride while it lasts.
I will come behind (figuratively of course!) Joseph and agree that the OLTL story is not as good as it could be. However, you can stand back and look at the story and see what it is doing. I am a huge fan of the show and my husband is already sick of my need to catch up 1 hour a night, but the show delivers better than any other on American TV at the moment. We have two big power gay couples on American TV at the moment: Scotty & Kevin and Oliver & Kyle. Nuke certainly can be added if need be but the story just isn't compelling enough for some reason at the moment and they have lost their "darling" status. But back to my point...
My point is that the OLTL story is doing what stories don't always do, making the gays a part of the overall storyline and not just a short after school special. Subtley they are bringing Oliver into everyone's storyline it seems. He had a shouting match with Tea, he is helping with the whole Jared thing, he became buddies with Cristian and McBain, he has the Baby Mama drama pending with Stacey, he had a throw down with Ross, Blair and Todd both had run ins with him, and he is circling the Dorian orbit as well. Nick is being weaved into the Vicki, Dorian, Langston, and Star orbits. And Kyle is the slow climber with only Roxy, Natalie, and the hospital on his side at the moment. But in the end these characters are being placed into more than just cursory roles with the other characters. Once any pierce the Todd/Blair and Vicki and Dorian storylines continually, they will have arrived.
But this is where I am going with this. The OLTL gays are having their triangle story going on but they are being shown as members of Llanview at large and getting their props. Oliver got his medal. Kyle is rebuilding his rep. And Nick looks to be staying around for longer than expected. What has any other show done like this that is dramatic in nature not comedic today on TV? Brother & SIsters is the only one close but 1 half of the B&S duo, Scotty, sometimes is barely there at times although his moxie finally arose the other day during the failed tango scene.
We have a long way to go with Oliver & Kyle and their add on Nick, but look what they have done. Noone is perfect but I feel that viewers know who these character are, what their job and last names are, and who they pal around with. The next step is to further bring devotees in and force even greater stories. To me success would be having any combination of these three characters be treated by the community at large as a regular couple AND have adventures that are not all about being a gay man.
They never really developed anything between Kyle and Fish. The actors barely have scenes together and their characters have been completely rewritten. The story in of itself is very minor, and once the gay wedding part is over that will probably be even moreso.
The structure of the Kyle and Oliver story is one done in medias res. Thus, the viewers have to reconstruct the relationship of the characters from the present without the benefit of watching the boys start off their love affair in college. The story is already built in and the lynchpins are there: they fell in love, Oliver couldn't come out of the closet, Kyle's heart was broken, they separated - and now they're in each other's lives again. The difference now, however, is that Oliver has come out and has decided he wants Kyle.
Kyle came on to OLTL as this bumbling, shady med student and we've seen compassionate sides of him when he really wanted to help Shane Morasco. Then we saw the romantic and vulnerable side of him when Oliver came around.
I think what makes the story remarkable is that despite the fact that Kyle and Oliver have not had many scenes together is that when they are in one room, the whole baggage of the relationship from college to today is right there with them and for us to see. And that's incredible. To me, that's a result of good writing and even better acting.
But to each their own. I see this as a beautifully developed story. A premise where two young men were already in love in college but family allegiance and self-hate tore the lovers apart is, to me, miles and above a much better starting point for a love story than a romance that began with two young college men touching each other's hands when one was helping the other load VHS tapes into a box. The latter to me is artificial, contrived and unbelievable. The former is organic and realistic. No contest.
I'll just say I'm completely enjoying the story. Yes, it's has it's flaws which I have pointed out several times including this week's column. Nobody, including it's fans have deemed it perfect. But for good or ill, it is what is and for me and for a growing number of people far beyond gay men, the best gay themed story we've ever had on our screens in daytime. Of course the writers could chicken out on the story, backburner the characters, give them an awful plot, just like with As The World Turns, Y&R and so many other shows. And if that were to happen, I'll be the first to speak up, just as i would any other story line, show or character that didn't live up to it's potential or fulfill it's promise. But I get the sense (and it could be a misperception of mine) that some want to see it falter or fail so they can say 'I told you so'. It's not the first time I've noticed this line of thinking and it's just puzzling to me. I don't know why anyone would want to see another gay storyline go south.
I wouldn't exactly call it a mess, as it is vastly superior to all other soaps right now. I do agree about the fast pace though. They haven't built up the character Nick, and most of the Nick/Kyle relationship happened off screen. We saw them in the gym, one date and then they're suddenly a couple? I just think it has happened so fast. It could have made for an excellent storyline with a lot of pain and emotions, and push and pull. I love triangle dramas, and I do think they moved too quickly with this one. It definitely had a lot more potential.
I do understand that Nick was just supposed to be an obstacle for Kish, but then Nick got really popular and they had to rewrite it. But giving Nick more screen time hasn't really given anything more to the triangle drama, like I said, most of it has happened off screen. I really like Nick and Kyle together, and I love it that Oliver is jealous, there's so much emotions. The writers could have done more with it.
The storyline is good, but not great. I still like it, and I'll watch. I do think the writers should flesh out the Nick and Kyle relationship more though, if not for anything else than just make the impact of an Oliver/Kyle pairing that more intence.
by 
isn't it a spoiler?
I Don't Think So....
it was changed...
Oh!
Wilson Cruz?
--------------------------------
Would somebody hug OLIVER, already!?
this is really random, but oh well
this is really random, but oh well...
I think i said before that kyle (brett, whatever) looks much better and put together in anything but those long, button down shirts. the show needs to realize that and stick with NOT putting him in those again.
soaps never know how to dress their characters. one of my pet peeves.
BUT WHAT ABOUT NICK?
Nick.....
Oh thank you Anthony :))
I was about to ask the same thing!
I am so excited to hear that Nick is going to continue staying around! Could it be too much to ask that he ends up being Tea's brother also?!
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If I bring out the devil in you, he was there all along!
That's not a bad idea!
I Think....
Y&R creative freefall? Not.
In My Opinion.....
That's a 5 star post
I'm so right there with you.
I agree. ATWT has gone through quite a long period recently where the writing (not just the plots, but the characterizations and dialog as well) has taken a severe downswing from what I first saw at the start of the Nuke pairing, in my opinion, but even still I'm interested enough to watch each episode all the way through. Even if that means venting my frustrations by yelling at my TV.
Out of the three, Y&R is the only soap that I DVR and put off watching until the weekends so that I can fast forward through a whole week's worth of episodes in roughly an hour. It's rather astounding that in spite of all that talent in the cast they still manage to make the show so uninteresting.
If the mere sight of Michael Muhney didn't make my pulse quicken the way it does, I wouldn't bother following Y&R at all.
Michael Muhney
the only reason I watch this wreck! Well - JT would skin it would be a better draw - but he ain't in the next months.
The real reason that Y&R is #1 is that it is on at lunch time. Think of the "audience" - this is the time they have to sit down and pig out or take a break at work that won't get them fired.
Same here.
Michael Muhney's sexy ass is what keeps me glued to this show. And with him as Adam, I was really hoping we would get the next "Victor Newman" who was ironically borne by someone who couldn't be more diametrically opposite TGVN's moral compass.
Frankly, I am so sick of Eric Braeden's tacky and public maneuverings to get his salary issues worked when 15.1 million Americans are out of work while he's essentially having a hissy fit over having to subsist on "only" $1M/annum. I so wanted TGVN gone, but he's staying. I just hope Adam brings TGVN to his knees and kicks TGVN to the curb big time.
Billy Miller is a hit or miss for me. He's such a charmer, but he can be such a tool too.
Oh, and the rest of the show is one hot mess. I hate the art story. I'm sick of Sharon/Nick/Phyllis, the Fisher-Bald wins. ANEMIA Heinle's Victoria. Blecch. So much garbage to fast-forward.
Short story, despite being No. 1 at the ratings, which I don't think it deserves, Y&R is in a creative freefall right now. DAYS, believe it or not, is doing much better than its fellow Sony-owned sudser.
Y&R
I am always humored by people who respond to criticism of Y&R by noting that it's still the #1 show in daytime. I always ask them to remember two things: first, that NCIS is the #1 show in primetime--no one takes that as evidence that that show is better than Mad Men, though. And second, saying that you're the best show in daytime is like saying you're the best player on the LA Clippers. It's not much of an accomplishment to be atop a sinking ship.
Y&R may be getting the viewers but it is not the best soap in daytime. I can't go as far as Anthony to and say it's unwatchable (due largely to epic performances by Beth Maitland, Peter Bergman and Billy Miller) but it's certainly approaching that level.
On a show where corporate intrigue used to be its bread and butter, to see Billy Miller buy Restless Style from Phyllis and Nick almost overnight, without a contract...it's just an insult to the show's legacy. And with the death of yet another member of the Abbotts, the next generation battle with the Abbotts and the Newmans (that CBS is so heavily promoting) is 3 against 1. Ridiculous.
I mean, really...
Ashley goes from teetering on the verge of insanity to lucid enough to go toe to toe with Victor virtually overnight.
Patty's therapist shows up and--surprise!--has the same face as her...just like Y&R's done with Sheila/Phyllis, John Abbott/Alistair Wallingford and William and Jeffrey Bardwell.
The gay storylines are horrendous but at least when Chance (aka the most boring character in the history of soaps) gets stabbed in an upcoming episode, Phillip and Nina get to be by his side in the hospital. By comparison, the Winters family has been largely MIA while Lily undergoes treatment for cancer AND loses her best friend.
It's just a God awful mess.
I'm not sure what you've been reading but, from the accounts that I've seen, Sony was absolutely ready to let Eric Braeden go. He went out, threw a public temper tantrum (which makes anything that Victoria Rowell's been accused of look like SMALL POTATOES) and eventually conceded to Sony's demands. Sony knew that if they allowed Braeden to get away with not taking the paycut, they'd have a mutiny on their hands from other cast members who had, so they had to stay strong. They did and Braeden folded.
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"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught inan inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment ofdestiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly." - MLK
20 years from now...
pecola, if NCSI is the #1 show 20 years from now (and has been #1 all of those 20 years), I will take back what I said. Y&R has not been #1 because people have nothing better to do during their lunch hour. Becuase of the way the gay stories have been handled (any word 10 times stronger than awful) has angered everyone here, and the show has been written off. I look forward to the show everyday. Sure, like every other soap, there are characters that are boring and storylines that go on too long. But Y&R has been consistent in cast, writers, quality over its 36 years, with the best cast on daytime. If you don't like it, don't watch. I was disagreeing with Anthony's comment Y&R was in a creative freefall. It's not. Since there are no longer any gay stories they will be telling, Anythony won't have to pain himself by watching the show. There is no reason for it to be included in GOOL. I will continue to watch and be entertained, regardless if there are gay characters or not.
Y&R's Troubles
I concede that Y&R is indeed not what it should be. I find myself rolling my eyes and screaming at the TV screen much like I was three years ago with Lyne Marie Lantham at the helm. This I didn't expect from Maria Arena Bell and co.
What I give Y&R credit for is that they usually mine from their past pretty well. And it is the "respect" for past that is part of why people are still tuning in after all these years. I feel the really big reason they get viewers IMO is their power house cast members; Eric Braeden as Victor, Melody Thomas Scott as Nikki and Jeanne Cooper as Katherine. Despite this flare up with Braeden the show knows that with these three actors in these three roles they'll get people to watch. These characters have driven story for the past 20 years, especially Victor and Nikki.
The state of the storylines is a mess. The biggest offense for me has been the death of Colleen. I had just FINALLY started to appreciate the character of Colleen again. I was not a fan of the recast. I was fan of Adrienne Leon in the role. But after Colleen's dad, Brad, was killed off Colleen stood up for her dad against TGVN and that I had to give her props for. Yes Colleen's death did garner some excellent performances all around. I was left in tears during numerous Abbott family scenes and was especially moved by Beth Maitland as Colleen's mom, Traci. But being a ride or die fan of the Abbott family I am still very upset that they killed off a next generation Abbott. Even moreso that Victor got Colleen's heart. I can understand her death being a catalyst to spark the next generation Abbott/Newman feud but really there isn't really anyone to take on the Newmans other than Billy now. Colleen had proven that she could have been a good adversary to TGVN and his demon spawn. Seems like such a waste and a big loss for the Abbotts. Again.
The baby switch story is so full of holes it's not even funny. And after all the loss Sharon has suffered I find it frustrating that she's mourning the loss of a third child in her short life. The stolen painting story made no sense and the actions of the Drab Four within said story made even less sense. I did enjoy Deacon's one liner's though. The only interesting thing to come out of that is finding out who is the mother of Kevin's new brother. She's got Deacon scared and has it in for Lauren and Michaeil (who are due for a storyline). Lily's cancer story is completely uninteresting simpling because Lily is completely uninteresting and Cane even less so. And yet again we have "poor Lily, the victim". When has this girl not been crapped on by something/someone in her life? She's so pathetic. Adam's machinations are well due to be outted. I guess we have another couple years a la Gloria before he's truly found out. I can't say I don't enjoy him putting the screws to that horrible Victoria and the sanctimonious Nick. But for what he did to Ashley and Sharon, he really needs to be put away.
As cooky as it was I liked the Patty storyline. I enjoyed Stacy Haiduk's portrayal immensely. And I think the show's brass did too which is probably why they've brought on Patty's shrink, Emily Peterson, who's face Patty took. I'm not a fan of lookalike stories. But Emily standing up to Victor (who hasn't changed a lick since beating death) has me intrigued to see what she's about.
Despite all that is wrong with Y&R I still feel the show has the best production values of any of the soaps on American TV along with a very talented cast of actors. With more focus on actually likeable, romantic couples (Nick and Phyllis, Mac and Billy and Lily and Cane are not it - sorry), more boardroom shenanigans & non-Swiss cheese plots you can drive a semi through, the show can get back on track. I'm not at the point where I am ready to tune out. I was seriously thinking about it under LML. So in my mind Y&R isn't on its last leg yet.
Once upon a time I died. And like my namesake I got better.
Luke in peril again
Oh my I did not see that coming....
As for Kyle and Fish taking it slow, Thank god! Atleast it shows we are not all sluts (though admittedly alot, including me, have a slutty period) it's good to show people we have depth sometime.
Little Luke will be tied to
I find OLTL disappointing
I can't get interested in Kyle/Fish/Nick. The writing has been all about the story rather than the characters. Why should I care about Kyle and Nick as a couple? The show never invested in them so I never wanted to see what happened with them. If they had made them a legitimate part of a triangle, I would have tuned in every day. Instead, the story forced them together, and Nick's character has been poorly written from the get go. It's a real shame because these never before seen moments would mean so much more if they were character based rather than plot driven. There was no reason to tell this story at so fast a pace. When you do that, you miss all the beats, and as a viewer, I tune out when it's all about the story and not about the characters.
Conversely, why should I want to see Kyle with Oliver? Oliver spent the summer sleeping with women and treating Kyle abominably. All is forgiven because he came out?? Please! Having a difficult time coming out does not excuse a person's behavior to someone else. If the show had depicted Oliver making amends over a period of time, I might be interested, but the show consistently excuses and condones emotional and physical abuse committed by its male characters.
I wish soaps had more time...
...and I'm sure you're thinking "More time than 5 days a week?" Yes. I wish they had time to tell us more about these characters, develop Nick into something other than a tool to bring Oliver and Kyle together and allow the writers to make a marriage point.
I agree 100% that the relationship between Nick and Kyle was not developed enough. At least not enough that we should feel sad that Kyle and Oliver will end up together instead of Nick and Kyle. But we were never suppose to care, I guess. It was always a given that Kyle and Oliver would be the couple. And now that it's about to happen it's almost a let down. Next comes the baby story and talk about BORING!
Also...don't ask me why, but while I was watching today's episode I couldn't help but wonder where the hell Nick and Kyle's gays friends are. In the real world they would had a circle of friends...they are planninga faux wedding..where are their gay and straight friedns to wish them well or tell them they are stupid. Ah, soaps...
*-----------*
It really doesn't get any more adorkable than this: Video
Thank Microsoft for donating $$$ to Approve 71 in Washington...use Bing.com for a week.
OLTL: time and compelling couples
The show does have plenty of time to develop Nick, Kyle, and Fish into characters. They choose to concentrate more on the story. Why couldn't this election story have taken place in February? I do not understand the rationale for rushing this story.
IF you're trying to raise ratings, why tell a story where the viewers are never in doubt how it will end? If the show had written the Nick and Kyle with all the beats presented (as they do sometimes painstakingly with almost every other story on the show), viewers would be divided about who they want for Kyle, and that's a great thing for a show. Instead, Nick is a plot point, and the relationship is non-existent so proposals and marriages mean nothing. Nothing to me anyway.
If anything, the most compelling relationships in this story are between Christian and Oliver and Kyle and Roxy.
Well
Um, because we typically hold elections in November?
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"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught inan inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment ofdestiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly." - MLK
Special Elections
They certainly have time for other stories
For MONTHS Todd and Tea and Blair have had the same damn scenes. Over and over we get these tired reasons to try to tell us why Todd and Tea are soulmates.
We never saw any buildup for Kyle/Fish or for Kyle/Nick. They are all basically strangers to the audience. How many, besides gay viewers, will even care?
I hope they aren't going to turn Nick evil, I'm tired of psychos on this show.
Desperate Housewives
maybe its a 40 something american thing
but its becoming very frustrating to read your bleak and narrow expectations for gay/queer characters and seeming acceptance and pressumtion of homophobia - don't be confident, proud or cocksure so's not to upset anyone.
I have to say though that Lucas' need to challenge everybody with acceptance of his sexuality is getting old. Not everybody is going to be okay with someone being gay, and that’s a fact of life. And even if folks don’t care whether someone is gay or not, they don't necessarily want to have it be a point of conversation or thrown in their faces constantly. Maybe one day Lucas will realize that.
personality and unique characters are always better.
Straight up
IAWTC. Anthony, you do a bang-up job with this column, but I found your comment about 'thrown in their faces constantly' a little gay-as-blazes.
Lucas's desire to hear his new friend's view of his sexual orientation seemed perfectly reasonable to me, and I actually thought the show had Lucas handle the exchange fairly maturely (by his standards). Just like he does with everything, Lucas niggled until he got a reaction, but when he got one, he was funny and pleasant about it.
Besides, Lucas's personality is to throw everything in everyone's face as often as possible. For him to make an exception for his sexuality would be OOC. I find that obnoxiousness in his personality makes him fun to watch, and I certainly hope the show doesn't cure him of it.
Clearly, the GTST writers have been curled up with their QAF DVDs and are giving us 'Brian Kinney - the early years'. Perhaps this men's clothing line nonsense will lead to Lucas devising a brilliantly (if implausibly) successful marketing campaign based on the objectification of male bodies, to the delight of his bosses and Dex's frustration...
A daytime Brian would be a good thing. There are plenty of straight antiheroes in soap. A gay one would be a fun new departure. What would really be a shame for this character is if Lucas lost his zest for manipulating people and pushing their buttons. If Lucas sticks around long enough to be hit by the usual catalogue of soap adversity, I hope that rather than taming him, disappointment will help Lucas get better at picking (and winning) his battles, like all the best lovable rogues.
At The Risk..
I'll put my life in danger here and say that I absolutely loathed the character of Brian Kinney and he is the sole reason that quit watching QAF. So if that's the type of character this show is going for (and I pray it isn't) then me and Lucas will part company fairly quickly.
Look, there is nothing wrong with being confident and proud of who you are. It's what we all should be. And I like that Lucas can be manipulative and a bit of a schemer. It makes him a fun, interesting character. But his behavior with Noud left a bad taste in my mouth. For him, many times everything comes down to his sexuality and when you get older and smarter and grow up, you realize life isn't like that. And at some point, I hope Lucas learns those lessons.
And one man's lovable rogue is another's 'annoying, childish brat'.
You are not the only one
I loathe Brian Kenney too.
Lucas is really annoying but he is so funny to watch. Right now i can't stand Dex, and i'm not sure about wanting Lucas being involved with Dex. And talking about Dex and Queer as folk, i'm the only one who finds that Dex looks like the guy who played Michael on QAF?
Lucas/Noud
LUCAS
I'm a huge fan of QAF US. I've seen every episode of all 5 seasons multiple times and I own the DVDs. Huge Brian Kinney fan as well. But everything isn't about QAF.
Brian Kinney in only one gay character is a very wide and deep sea of gay characters. He may have been the end all be all iconic gay for some viewers but I don't think we should assume that he is for everyone.
I don't think Lucas is even remotely like Brian Kinney and I see no evidence that the writers of this soap want him to be or intend for him to be.
Brian was miserable a good deal of the time in his teens. Lucas is not. Lucas is who Brian maybe could have been if he hadn't been so emotionally and physically abused by the time he was 18. That's the only comparison I'd make really.
I don't like ascribing motives and intentions to writers of a tv show without evidence because I think it does the show and the writers a disservice. Some times it is clear when writer are influenced or paying homage to characters that have come before but I don't see that here.
Lucas is 18 and he had a few one night stands (most of which were attempts to get Janine to deal with him). He's no different than most straight male characters his age who spend their lives trying to figure out how to get girls into bed accept getting boys into bed is a lot less difficult when you're a gay teen. If straight boys could get girls to have sex in hotel elevators 5 minutes after meeting them, I'm sure they'd be all over it.
Lucas didn't know Noud at all. He was a complete stranger who helped him out. They clearly connected in the bar after Dex attacked him but I think Lucas just wanted to get the gay issue on the table and then out of the way. I'm glad he challenged Noud and even more glad that Noud was up to the challenge and answerd Lucas' questions with no muss no fuss.
I saw no discomfort about it between the two characters.
We've all had that new friend who chose to deal with the knowledge that we are gay by ignoring it (not because they didn't care but because it made them uncomfortable). Some of us just don't want to have to deal with another person's discomfort about who WE are.
Lucas simply wanted to know if Noud was homophobic or had any issues being his friend because lots of straight guys that age would and do and after his experiences with Dex (which are 90% unprovoked) he needed to be sure.
Lucas chose to be direct about it. I applaud that. Now Lucas knows he doesn't have to worry about it and he and Noud can get to know each and all is well.
I think many of us wish we had been as able or willing to just grab our straight friend's hand and drag him around with us and be totally comfortable and out as a teen.
I LOVED that scene with Lucas and Noud getting ready to go to the club after work and Lucas dragging Noud by the hand upstairs without it being a big deal or thinking we he had to be "careful".
Clearly Noud doesn't have a problem with Lucas since he's picking him up from work and hanging out with him all the time.
I know we as gays have very different ideas about how other gays should behave.
Some of us are "but for the fact that I like same-sex-sex, I'm just like straight folks" gays.
Some of us are flag waving, in-your-face "I'm here I'm queer, get used to it" gays.
Lucas could be a completely successful human being either way.
There's more than one way to be an out gay man.
Love/Hate
i disagree... OLTL Kish storyline is beautiful!
i find it very entertaining and moving at the same time. for one - this is a soap opera. just as long as they don't make nick shoot all the brides at the wedding in a fit of anger then i'm okay with it. but then again - this is a soap opera - so they CAN do that. they have like an artistic license to suspend reality to suit a specific storyline.
they can do soooo many things with the relationship with kyle and nick. i agree. but really it was quite obvious from the get-go that nick is only there to move the storyline of oliver and kyle. so i did not invest too much on the relationship of nyle.
but i find the love story of kyle and fish very moving even though we only have our imagination of what really happened between them during their college days. thru the great acting and the writing you can see and feel that both kyle and oliver are really in love. some people may not see it, but obviously, A LOT of people do or else we wouldn't have hundreds of posts here and at other soap blogs falling in love with the show.
if someone constantly says - that wouldn't happen "in the real world" - i say - yes - you're absolutely right - it won't. this is soap opera land where children age within days and one night may last for a month. i've heard they even have magic and alien abductions. puhlease!.... soapland is not the real world!
winning an election by declaring one a lesbian? never gonna happen. only in soapland. but what is the heart of the storyline? - it is the love story of kyle and oliver. the emotional rollercoaster of our two heroes. i love today's episode because they don't patronize nor glorify gay marriage per se as if making a political statement. everyone knows everything is not legal. it is all for show.... the heart of the matter is the LOVE of oliver and kyle - THE LOVE OF TWO MEN WHO HAVE TO ENDURE THE PAINS OF COMING OUT, THE DISASTER OF LYING TO ONESELF, OF PARENTS DISOWNING YOU, OF LOVE AGAINST ALL ODDS.... that's what it is all about. not the political struggle. BUT THE HUMAN STRUGGLE. that's what rural america are witnessing now - the humanity and not the politics of gay marriages. they are witnessing TWO MEN IN LOVE.
after all is said and done, one thing is certain - From June to November 2, 2009, One Life To Live gave us a beautiful, moving, funny, and entertaining gay love story. and that's the real deal.
OLTL: erratic mess
I'm in the minority since most everyone on this site is enamored with the OLTL storyline. It's an erratic mess in my book. I feel like people are judging the show based on what they want to see rather than what's on the screen. Even its supporters agree that Nick has not been fully developed and that the relationship was just a pit stop for Kyle. Since that's the case, what compels me as a viewer to care or tune in? Why wouldn't I wait to watch until November 2 if nothing else on the show holds my interest?
A well-written show starts with the characters. The Nick/Kyle/Fish triangle could have been played for months. It could have been a Robert/Eden/Cruz type triangle--a triangle where both couplings had a large fan base. Instead, they treat the character of Nick with disregard, and they spend weeks on a relationship that means nothing. It's only a means to an end. Yes, the show is breaking new ground, but if that new ground is not based in character and is not well plotted, it makes for an empty viewing experience.
OLTL: a love story
First, let me state that I am not a soap opera fan. I find them over the top, poorly written and poorly acted. So my love of the Kyle-Oliver-Nick storyline is not out of some sort of loyalty to the show or the genre.
Your opinion as I have gathered is that OLTL is spending too much time driving their plotlines and as such their characters are poorly developed.
Yet the characters are the reason I keep watching. I could care less about the plot; it doesn't matter who wins the election, what happens to Oliver's job or how Kyle does in med school. Sure, the plot adds support and it's interesting and fresh, but the real reason I watch is the characters. I agree that the Kyle-Nick relationship lacked attention, but the dynamics between the three points of this triangle is what makes this a winning story. I'm rooting for Oliver and Kyle because the love between them is almost tangible. Yes Oliver treated Kyle badly, but Kyle can't help who he loves, and Oliver loves him back and that's really all that matters. I feel for Nick too, as it sucks to get your heart broken.
If you really want to know what a crappy show is, just turn on As the World Turns. I used to care about Luke and Noah, and now I could care less.
You too can be saved by the blog! www.savedbytheblog14.blogspot.com
I may be straight, but I'm not narrow.
I agree..
ever since word broke that OLTL was doing a gay storyline. Every gay outlet started praising it,before anything happened on screen. Fans started rooting for Oliver/Kyle to be together because they shared a past offscreen. Basically we got another coming out story, a kiss and poor Nick thrown in the middle of this great gay love story.
I'm a faithful veiwer of OLTL for over 20 years and i'm left with a zillion questions. Where was the character devolpment? Why was this storyline rushed, while other take sometimes years to play out? I don't understand,why Kyle is still pining for Oliver, while he was screwing every woman in town? Why introduce Nick just to make him look like a dope for falling for the wrong guy again?
Overall I was expecting more from this story, since the headwriter and executive producer are openly gay.
wholesome laughter has great face value
Be careful
Very well put Madeleine and forever 29. I will say I am loving OLTL and think for the most part the gay story has been excellent. I also like very much how Fish is involved in the other storylines just as a cop, his relationship with McBain, etc. Nick however is wooden and has no chemistry with Kyle. But be careful for criticizing ANYTHING here which includes any sort of gay content. Right now OLTL is the site's darling. So you "are wrong!" in your opinion. ;) The second the show lets up on the gay story, or puts it on the back burner, the readers here will turn faster than my head if I passed Alexander Skarsgard on the street. If and when that happens, you will "be right" in your opinion, so hang in there.
No, I agree with you
I'm one of the biggest OLTL fans here, but I'll honestly agree with you that Nick is the weak link in the story--the failure to fully develop his character and the relationship between Nick and Kyle is a, let's admit it, glaring flaw in an otherwise terrific story. And while Nicholas Rodriguez is certainly attractive, his acting does leave much to be desired (tho, perhaps that's due to the scripts not giving him much to work with).
I'm not so blind in my devotion to the show to recognize that it isn't perfect. But what it does get right is better than anything else out there right now. And I'm enjoying the ride while it lasts.
Perfect? No. A bigger step? Absolutely!
I will come behind (figuratively of course!) Joseph and agree that the OLTL story is not as good as it could be. However, you can stand back and look at the story and see what it is doing. I am a huge fan of the show and my husband is already sick of my need to catch up 1 hour a night, but the show delivers better than any other on American TV at the moment. We have two big power gay couples on American TV at the moment: Scotty & Kevin and Oliver & Kyle. Nuke certainly can be added if need be but the story just isn't compelling enough for some reason at the moment and they have lost their "darling" status. But back to my point...
My point is that the OLTL story is doing what stories don't always do, making the gays a part of the overall storyline and not just a short after school special. Subtley they are bringing Oliver into everyone's storyline it seems. He had a shouting match with Tea, he is helping with the whole Jared thing, he became buddies with Cristian and McBain, he has the Baby Mama drama pending with Stacey, he had a throw down with Ross, Blair and Todd both had run ins with him, and he is circling the Dorian orbit as well. Nick is being weaved into the Vicki, Dorian, Langston, and Star orbits. And Kyle is the slow climber with only Roxy, Natalie, and the hospital on his side at the moment. But in the end these characters are being placed into more than just cursory roles with the other characters. Once any pierce the Todd/Blair and Vicki and Dorian storylines continually, they will have arrived.
But this is where I am going with this. The OLTL gays are having their triangle story going on but they are being shown as members of Llanview at large and getting their props. Oliver got his medal. Kyle is rebuilding his rep. And Nick looks to be staying around for longer than expected. What has any other show done like this that is dramatic in nature not comedic today on TV? Brother & SIsters is the only one close but 1 half of the B&S duo, Scotty, sometimes is barely there at times although his moxie finally arose the other day during the failed tango scene.
We have a long way to go with Oliver & Kyle and their add on Nick, but look what they have done. Noone is perfect but I feel that viewers know who these character are, what their job and last names are, and who they pal around with. The next step is to further bring devotees in and force even greater stories. To me success would be having any combination of these three characters be treated by the community at large as a regular couple AND have adventures that are not all about being a gay man.
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If I bring out the devil in you, he was there all along!
Absolutely and ...
Problems go way beyond Nick
That remains to be seen.
The structure of the Kyle and Oliver story is one done in medias res. Thus, the viewers have to reconstruct the relationship of the characters from the present without the benefit of watching the boys start off their love affair in college. The story is already built in and the lynchpins are there: they fell in love, Oliver couldn't come out of the closet, Kyle's heart was broken, they separated - and now they're in each other's lives again. The difference now, however, is that Oliver has come out and has decided he wants Kyle.
Kyle came on to OLTL as this bumbling, shady med student and we've seen compassionate sides of him when he really wanted to help Shane Morasco. Then we saw the romantic and vulnerable side of him when Oliver came around.
I think what makes the story remarkable is that despite the fact that Kyle and Oliver have not had many scenes together is that when they are in one room, the whole baggage of the relationship from college to today is right there with them and for us to see. And that's incredible. To me, that's a result of good writing and even better acting.
But to each their own. I see this as a beautifully developed story. A premise where two young men were already in love in college but family allegiance and self-hate tore the lovers apart is, to me, miles and above a much better starting point for a love story than a romance that began with two young college men touching each other's hands when one was helping the other load VHS tapes into a box. The latter to me is artificial, contrived and unbelievable. The former is organic and realistic. No contest.
To Each His Own Is Right....
I wouldn't exactly
I wouldn't exactly call it a mess, as it is vastly superior to all other soaps right now. I do agree about the fast pace though. They haven't built up the character Nick, and most of the Nick/Kyle relationship happened off screen. We saw them in the gym, one date and then they're suddenly a couple? I just think it has happened so fast. It could have made for an excellent storyline with a lot of pain and emotions, and push and pull. I love triangle dramas, and I do think they moved too quickly with this one. It definitely had a lot more potential.
I do understand that Nick was just supposed to be an obstacle for Kish, but then Nick got really popular and they had to rewrite it. But giving Nick more screen time hasn't really given anything more to the triangle drama, like I said, most of it has happened off screen. I really like Nick and Kyle together, and I love it that Oliver is jealous, there's so much emotions. The writers could have done more with it.
The storyline is good, but not great. I still like it, and I'll watch. I do think the writers should flesh out the Nick and Kyle relationship more though, if not for anything else than just make the impact of an Oliver/Kyle pairing that more intence.
Harvey Milk: You gotta give 'em hope.
FOQ
Well, the storyline I'm looking most forward to is FOQ, so I voted other. lol.
Other soaps I can't wait to see more of are Niños Ricos Pobres Padres, Mas Sabe el Diablo, One Life To Live and Degrassi.
Harvey Milk: You gotta give 'em hope.