It was so interesting to hear his thought process. I have come to absolutely love One Life to Live. I'm no soap fanatic, but I've watched four different soaps now, and OLTL is the best for connecting storylines together, and making everybody and everything feel like part of one big community. That is so important with shows like this. It really is about the human relationships. (And not just the romantic human relationships either.)
I love how anyone with musical talent is wanted to sing in their roles. I think oliver singing would be random as...well, as a musical in general. LMAO. i'm thinking every show needs to have a musical episode, just to get it out of the way. ;-)
i really want to see kyle and oliver jump on a bed and then ask "what the hell are we doing?" and then get off.....just as a way of poking fun at when luke and noah did it.
While Oliver singing would still be kind of random, it wouldn't be as odd on OLTL as it would be on some other shows. KDP (Blair) sings on a semi-regular basis, and the show itself is very musical, regularly featuring musical montages at the climax of the episode, and using lots of musical guests.
The trick would be to find a logical place, like Karaoke night at one of the show's two clubs. I'm not calling for it, but it could work.
In other soap/music news, a friend of mine called The Internet informs me that the version of "Mad World" that's been playing at the end of every episode of General Hospital for the last couple of weeks is the Adam Lambert version. (I didn't even know there WAS an Adam Lambert version. I think it's the first time I've actually heard him sing.)
And just to make it even more gay-adjacent, given how much build-up they've given the shadowy character associated with that leitmotif, I'm thinking it has to be James Franco's character.
Actually GH has done a lot of characters singing Karaoke over the past few months - so it is not un-soapy.
And, although I only marginally followed AI - Adam sang Mad World twice - it was/is a very popular cover. And from what I have gathered from the boards James Franco is going to be a very wild character on GH.
Oliver could easily get up on a Karaoke night at Capricorn or Rodi's and sing his peepee off for Kyle. Nick could do the same. To me, one of the most effective uses of an actor's singing ability that was incorporated in OLTL was when Evangeline (Renee Elise Goldsberry of THE COLOR PURPLE and the final Broadway Mimi in RENT fame), Mitch Laurence's former lawyer, sang Stevie Wonder's ALL IN LOVE IS FAIR to illustrate musically the love triangle with her, John McPain in the Ass and Natalie. That's one of my all-time favorite OLTL moments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq7GcxzPeqg
Kathy Brier's Marcie also burst into song when she was being harassed by some mean-girl types and she sang GOD BLESS AMERICA of all songs. Kerry Butler's (Kira from XANADU ON BROADWAY) Claudia also belted her ass on OLTL while whining about Forbes March's Nash, her ex-fiance. So, why not our guys Scott and Nicholas? I'd LOVE to hear them sing on the show.
And yes, GH has been doing these Karaoke episodes and they have AWFUL singers. They had that AMERICAN IDOL reject come on and sing AGAINST ALL ODDS (probably one of the most overplayed songs on IDOL) and it was a bummer.
I didn't know Adam Lambert (who, incidentally, co-starred with Nicholas Rodriguez and Val Kilmer in the L.A. production of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS) already had his version of MAD WORLD out. The version GH plays doesn't sound like Adam's at all but some other generic cover singer... And GH is really ruining it for me because I loved the song ever since I heard Tears for Fears debut it, but GH is playing it every damn time it's foreshadowing the James Franco storyline. Argh...
Well, I think it would stretch the limits of believability to have him break out into a produced, musically accompanied musical number in the shower, and I suspect that's what a lot of us would want - him actually showing his musical talent, as opposed to what would really be a cute bit of character business.
Not that I wouldn't like to see Fish sing in the shower as a cute bit of character business, but it wouldn't be the talent showcase we're really talking about here.
Even on Glee, I've seen fans complain when the characters break out into choreographed, accompanied musical numbers when there's no good in-story reason for that to happen, and it's MUCH more logical for it to happen there than on OLTL!
Thoughts of Oliver doing karaoke brought on memories of that scene in Brothers and Sisters- I think Season 2- when Kevin attempted to impress Scotty's friends at a karaoke bar and prove he wasn't uptight, culminating in a ridonckulous drunken rendition of 'You were always on my mind'
Pity Kyle doesn't have any friends except his landlady- still, the stage is yours Officer Fish... :D Perhaps to impress Nick? Whatever..
______________________________
"You know when I heard Sandy wanted to write himself into a scene as Queen Cleopatra; I was aroused, and then furious.."
John Barrowman and Daniel Boys cover I KNOW HIM SO WELL in Barrowman's latest CD, MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC, and they do a great job with it. I prefer their version to the original by Elaine Paige and Barbara Dickson.
OLTL is known for doing musical themed episodes a couple times a year. I would think the way they could have all the actors sing is to have some type of setup where someone is telling a classic story about love or they do a take off on famous stories through out the ages. They've done things like this before to great success.
Once upon a time I died. And like my namesake I got better.
Thank you so much for the wonderful interview with Ron Carlivati. I'm overwhelmed and overjoyed by the Kish storyline, and the show itself, overall (heck, I was even crying today when Natalie was getting emotional over Jared's death (so sad to see John Brotherton leave the show). I can't wait to see what happens next with Fish, Kyle and Nick--I just hope somehow they can wrangle That (Magnificent) Bitch Téa Delgado into the orbit of their story.
By the way, Ron, Scott, Brett and Nick attended the Annual GLAAD OUTAuction NYC on November 15; here's a pic, and more can be found at this link:
Actually, I think Scott has his arms around 2 guys, which would mean he's probably thinking, "What?? I'm not getting any gift bag for attending this function? In that case, I'll take two of these.".
Anthony,
You did a wonderful job....and of course since Advocate.com released the next big news we have a lot more than even RC gave away. I am looking forward to a KISHful 2010...with a great storyline that keeps our emotions peaking acted out by great actors, Scott, Brett and Nicholas....I can't wait....
Thank you so much from a fellow KISHmetter....
i am really glad i am not watching this season. kevin seems so damned annoying everytime i read the recaps and whatever.
on that subject, it seems that won't go away anytime soon. Now he won't be able to handle scotty having better/stronger sperm (yay i love typing that word.)
Seeing as i am a woman, i shouldn't judge such a situation, but couldn't they just do what they did in.....season...1 (I think it was S1) and give sperm and not know who the father is.....but whatever, i don't know. i'm not a man, so i don't know the emotional issues about that. just shooting it out there.
i actually didn't think about it til i re-read it and then thought "eh, maybe i should reword it..." but then decided it was amusing, so i left it in. i love when i write double meanings and don't even mean to.
I'm the naysayer here because I have not liked OLTL's writing. I'd like to forget Oliver's summer of heterosexual sex. I'd like to forget that Stacy is even on the show. Why would I want to see Oliver dragged into that mess? OR paired with Fath and Lavoisier who are pathetically bad actors?
There was also no reason to tell this story so fast. If you build a story on a solid foundation, you don't have to go back and fix the cracks. IF the Nick/Oliver/Kyle triangle had been written as an actual triangle with real emotions at stake, there would be no reason to go back. They wouldn't have to flesh out Nick's character now if they had done it before.
Why wasn't Carlivati asked about the people (including Robin Strasser) who feel the gay marriage storyline trivialised an important civil rights issue? Not everyone is buying what Carlivati is selling, and for some reason, Carlivati gets a free pass--not just on this site, but in much of the soap press. It boggles my mind. I also think it was disingenuous of Carlivati to say he didn't get much inspiration from ATWT since the story pretty much followed their plotting up until the ridiculous wedding stuff. I know it's commonplace to bash ATWT, but it's a lot easier when you're the second show to tell a "gay" love storyline. Carlivati should know about network interference since a lot of his storylines have been vetoed. ATWT might have a ban on any intimacy between Luke and Noah, but all of the ABC shows are very similar in their storylines involving women. You can't tell me that's not a mandate from Frons.
Jared's death meant nothing to me. This is the same storyline that Jessica went through last year. We have Bo/Nora redux. Todd/Tea/Blair/Ross redux. Mitch back yet again. So much of OLTL feels like I've see it all before, and I have.
you could say exactly the same thing for every other soap. At least Kish hasn't been recycled.
So stop watching soaps - the writing will never be Oscar grade and the s/l will be aimed towards their target audience who have massive passions about the shallowest of characters.
On ATWT, all you need do is look at Carly and Jack's and Holden and Lily's storylines, and they have been in this circuitous and cyclical mess for years now. And in Lily and Holden's case, for over 2 decades, ATWT has played the same stories for these characters with 3 actresses having inhabited the role of Lily during that time. Another example would be Paul, who kidnapped his daughter at least twice within a 6-month period.
Talk about recycling what's already been dumped, recycled, used and then dumped again!
ATWT has bad writing. No arguments here, but the good parts of Carlivati's writing didn't recycle storylines. As I'm not interested in Carly and Jack part 34, I'm not interested in yet another Buchanan son-in-law killed or Blair/Todd/Tea or even Bo/Nora. Why were most people excited about the idea of Oliver and Kyle? Because it was something new.
As for the "Don't watch" response, I want OLTL to succeed. I don't want it cancelled. OLTL was in last place in total viewers last time ratings were released. I'm worried for its longevity, and rubber stamping mediocrity is not going to help.
I understand where you are coming from with the whole Big Gay wedding and how it could be seen as trivializing gay civil rights. I personally only saw the wedding as a backdrop to tell the typical dramatic soap "leave-'em-at-the-altar-for-your-true-love" story with a gay twist. I don't think Carlivati was trying to be politcal even though gay marriage is a huge hotly debated political issue, which is like playing with fire. There is always going to be someone who gets burned.
However, when you say Kyle and Oliver's story "...pretty much followed their plotting up until the ridiculous wedding stuff." in regards to ATWT's Nuke , I disagree. If you meant that the plotting of Oliver's coming out story closesly resembled that of Noah's coming out...well there have been coming out stories in movies and tv way before both. So Carlivati doesn't necessarily have to be influenced by ATWT to tell his gay story. Hell he could have even been influenced by foreign soaps with gay storylines.
I don't see the Kish storyline as merely "the second show to tell a 'gay' love storyline" but as an upgrade. Kinda how we upgrade technology every few years for something a lot better.
Was nothing more than a plot device to place Kyle in the situation where he HAD to choose between Oliver and Nick and for Dorian to choose between her ambitions and desire to beat Viki and her love for David. It would have been a mistake for the show to centralize gay marriage and push it as something the audience should accept and agree with. That's just asking for trouble, so Ron was smart in using that as a plot device and nothing more. Sure, it's a big topic right now in the real world (Exhibit A - the idiots up in Albany, NY who are pussyfooting the issue), but that wasn't the intent of OLTL - to push that hot political button.
And I don't think that Ron's use of the Big Gay Weddings was trivializing the real life problems of same sex couples who cannot avail themselves of the benefits of marriage. I thought the issues were discussed respectfully, but ultimately, there will be no resolution in Llanview because as much as I'd like him to, Ron cannot convince the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or its highest court to turn gay marriages into reality in PA.
OLTL followed ATWT's model up to the coming out. It then branched out into the gay marriage nonsense. I remember when soap critics and viewers were complaining about Noah's straight boy summer when everyone knew he was meant for Luke. Yes, there have been coming out stories, but the soap world is so incestuous, and Frons so desirous of sticking it to CBS that I find it impossible to believe Carlivati's claims.
As for trivialising the issue of gay marriage, who were the advocates for gay marriage? A whack job lesbian who only wears one suit and another who forces his quickie boyfriend into agreeing to marry him. Yes, there was the whole speech about true love, but by that point, the damage was done. I lost count of the number of people in my real life who complained about the "Gay marriage nonsense." They were complaining about the way the story was told--complaints echoed in letters to the editors in various soap publications. It sacrificed character for the plot, and if it didn't, they would not need to go back and correct the mistakes they made with the character of Nick.
It's cowardly to say you're not political when 1.)telling a gay romantic story is political 2.)You're telling a story about mayoral race where the major issue is gay marriage 3.)A real life anti-gay marriage ballot will be voted on during your storyline. Why have the participants in the gay marriage storyline be non-couples? Why not do this storyline in February or May as part of a recall election? Why couldn't Kyle be in love with the person he agreed to marry? Why were all the people wanting to get married in loveless relationships?
Art can teach and enact change so why cheapen an issue by making it part of a farce? Think about this: how many of our perceptions of the world and its citizens have been formed by television and films? If television doesn’t have an effect, what are the commercials for? Why do most shows take pains to get medical details right? If the visual arts have no impact, why boycott perceived homophobic films like CRUISING because you fear it will incite violence? If films and shows can incite violence, why can’t they incite a new way of thinking about an issue? What did this story show people who never thought about the issue of gay marriage? What message did it send? Gay marriage activists are unhinged.
That is very tragic state of affairs if real-life gay marriage activists became unhinged, and I don't believe that to be the case, because of a story on a SOAP OPERA.
I'm sure the good folks at the Human Rights Campaign and other gay marriage advocacy groups had better things to do than think of, let alone actually use, a plot point on a soap to help advance the cause and fight the good fight for marriage equality.
Fine. You can make fun of what I wrote, but if it didn't matter what happens on a television show or film, we would not have people outraged about the "F" word on an ANIMATED PROGRAMME or concerns about transphobia in a decades old Robin Williams COMEDY FILM. Viewers get messages from all forms of entertainment even soap operas. If it also didn't matter, shows (including soaps) would not get rewarded for positive portrayals of the LGBT community. Those organisations know that images do make a difference.
I could go point for point in the ways the two stories were different but I'll just say this. Homophobic parent(s) are pretty standard for a coming out story, but unless and until Fish's father grabs a gun and insanely stalks Kyle through the woods, and shoots at him after pretending that everything was hunky dory then we'll have to agree to disagree that OLTL followed ATWT's model up until the wedding.
And yes the gay advocates for gay marriage that they focused on were Nick and Amelia, but I'd say they were not the point. They are minor characters on the landscape. The fact that pretty much every major character on the show, kids, teens, including the two undisputed Queens of that show were not only in support of gay marriage but had an 'of course we support it, why wouldn't you' attitude was much more subtle than an 'in your face oh so serious-here's what we're teaching you' storyline that a lot of people might have turned away from. Did Dorian use it as a tactic to get elected? Sure. That's Dorian--she uses everybody and everything. Did the show make a point of saying you should be able to marry who you love? yes, they did that too. Wacky story line that had people tuning in to see what exactly was going to happen.
Soaps take very few things seriously, I mean Stacy had a miscarriage and was plotting the next day to get pregnant again, which happend within a week? But that doesn't always mean something is trivialized either. For my part they didn't trivialize it, they made it a part of the landscape of the show.
Well you see marriages in general on Soaps are a joke. People get married and then divorce 2 seconds later....and then get remarried shortly after that..ad nauseum. And that is just the heterosexuals. What message does that say about marriage, not a very good one. SO if any anti-gay advocate would ever point to OLTL's big gay wedding to demonstrate the evils of gay marriage, well there are thousands of examples on soaps to demonstrate the crap of heterosexual marriage. I mean how many times has Dorian been married?
I just think no one should ever be looking to soaps for any positive image of marriage because that is what they do in order to keep couples apart and extend storylines. I think they will win over more hearts if they show a genuine love story between Oliver and Kyle.
OLTL ripped off ATWT's coming out drama, then ATWT ripped off both of AMC's coming out stories as well as the one OLTL did years ago. I don't see how OLTL could have been influnced by ATWT since the stories are very different in so many different ways. Yes, you had a man struggling with coming out on both shows. But that's where the similarities begin and end. Beyond that the stories are very, very different. I know folks like to point out the imperfections in the Kyle/Oliver romance but the thing is, no one is or has claimed it's perfect. We all see the flaws. I've written about them extensively. But it still doesn't mean it hasn't improved upon and done better than what we've had before.
AMC's coming out story was so long ago that I doubt many writers remember it [Passanante probably does], and AMC's story had a completely different tone and focus to it. I also recall many viewers wanting the gay man and the woman (don't remember the names) to get together. No such reaction to the stories on ATWT or OLTL which is a sign of progress. The coming out stories on A and O were similar (heterosexual summer, hiding behind women, military father, father confronting boyfriend, gay man confiding in older woman, etc.) and then OLTL branched out. Since soaps steal from other soaps, I don't believe Carlivati's comments.
Yes, OLTL has done some good stuff, but a lot of it was dreck, and the dreck was and is often overlooked or minimised, and I'm not just referring to Kyle/Fish.
when have you written anything bad about Kish. You and every gay publication continue to praise RC for his groundbreaking gay triangle. This storyline has been poorly executed from the jump. Every character did an 180 to make this storyline work. Fish went from manwhore to tortured soul. Kyle went from badboy to fickled. Nick was just clueless. Character inconsistency can kill a soap.
The wedding ceremony was just laughable. The story lacked all the elements that makes daytime work romance,drama,suspense and passion.
.... not that I feel the need to defend myself or my writing, but what you seem to want me to say is that OLTL is bad soap and I just don't believe that. But I HAVE criticized the story, mostly that I felt the triangle aspect of it wasn't given enough time to develop and that I thought the gay wedding aspect of it was hard to believe. In fact, MOST of the publications and what not who have written about the story have pointed that out. HOWEVER, that doesn't negate the amazing acting, great writing and solid love story that unfolded on our screens. You may disagree with that and clearly you do given your descriptions of the characters (who I don't recall seeing on my screen, BTW). So yes, I have many others have pointed out the story flaws. But none of it overwhelmed the good elements of the story.
Sorry, I'm not agreeing with your logic either. While OLTL certainly has the requisite soap format absurdities and conventions, the writing is lightyears better than any of the other soaps running at this time, even if you take the gay storylines out of the picture. Just the integration of characters and s/l's and the wit that is included on OLTL makes ATWT look like it is written by 10 year olds.
Though I agree the triangle was rushed and thinly written (so far), (due to constraints of timing the show's election to match actual election day I believe) it was and is and actual gay triangle with 3 appealing, age appropriate characters, compared to the pathetic horny grandpa and creepy Isadora Duncan wannabe s/l's on ATWT. They are not even in the same universe as far as quality of s/l, writing, and acting IMO.
Whether the mass wedding s/l was a trivialization or an insult is entirely up to the viewers opinion. I thought it was a lighthearted, over-the-top backdrop for the Kish romance, and it once again tied into many other s/l's (BlairTnT, the teen scene, the election, et al) in a way that other soaps these days can't touch. It alluded to an important current issue without the lecturing sledgehammer. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
I don't think OLTL is perfect--no show is--but when it does get something right, it gets it brilliantly right. Currently, OLTL is the best-written soap on the air--smart, sophisticated, witty, marvelously plotted, filled with interesting characters played by wonderful actors. I think it's better than most prime-time TV shows, as well.
As BB said, OLTL does a marvelous job of integrating their many characters into the fabric of Llanview society, so that often what happens to one character has a domino effect reaching across the social strata. They don't exist in bubbles, like they do on, say, Y&R and ATWT, or even prime-time TV shows like Trauma.
And the Fish/Kyle/Nick triangle, for whatever imperfections it may have had (being rushed, for example) was still genuinely revolutionary and it payed off wonderfully. And I don't think the big gay wedding trivialized the issue at all; several characters, not just Fish/Kyle/Nick, but also Starr, Langston and others presented their support--and their reasons for their support--of the issue. It was done naturalistically, without a sledgehammer. That they managed to incorporate Blair's defenestration into the mix made for even MORE gripping television.
I don't agree with everything you said (more on that in a second), but I do want to co-sign your criticism of the Carlivati interview.
When news of this storyline first broke, I was skeptical of the message it sent about gay marriage and, more importantly, about what it said about being true to your identity (it's not okay for Oliver to pretend to be straight, but it's okay for Dorian to pretend to be gay?). It just trivialized things for me.
Plus, as a matter of visibility, there was FINALLY an African-American lesbian on the canvas (cause, you know, those are SO plentiful) and she wasn't given any backstory at all. Will we even see Amelia again after the election story concludes?
I adore Kyle and Fish, don't get me wrong, but there were definitely some things wrong with this storyline and no member of the soap press has stepped up with a critical eye to ask Carlavati about any of this. I've offered similar complaints to Nelson Branco, Michael Fairman, etc. Not to mention that OLTL is approaching Guiding Light-status in terms of ratings...
But yes, I agree with you on that point...the others? Not so much.
I'm not sure how one could equate Nash and Jared's death--without getting into the storylines too deeply, one was an accident, the other, clearly, was not. Jared's death meant something to me, if only because John Brotherton was the only thing making Natalie's character interesting. I dread the inevitable John-Natalie reunion.
JPL and Farah Fath aren't bad actors--or, at least, they didn't use to be. Their disapproval of the overall storyline has managed to seep into their current portrayals but they weren't always this bad (Gigi's drunk scenes might be the worst thing I've seen on daytime since Thom Bierdz first came back).
I still don't know why anyone would fight over Todd but I think motherhood adds a new layer to the Tea/Todd/Blair triangle that we haven't seen before. I'm anxious to see Dani interact with her siblings.
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"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught inan inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment ofdestiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly." - MLK
Jared did kill Nash. It was not written that way, but the staging made it clear that Jared killed him. IF people thought Forbes March has been awful on ATWT, they should watch his last days on OLTL.
Maria Arena Bell (headwriter on YR) got a free pass for a while, but the tide has changed. I wonder if Carlivati gets a free ride because most of the journalists are gay and they are just happy to have gay characters on a show. For a while, ATWT had its defenders even during the kissing ban.
I had many of your concerns about the gay marriage storyline. I've been so disappointed in the way the story has played out.
I was skeptical
of the message it sent about gay marriage and, more importantly, about
what it said about being true to your identity (it's not okay for
Oliver to pretend to be straight, but it's okay for Dorian to pretend
to be gay?). It just trivialized things for me.
^ yes, this whole situation just made me roll my eyes and constantly ask "seriously now?"
I get that it's a show, and a soap that that, but hey...some things can still cause eye rolling for me.
at the same time, i did think "well, i think the show is sort of showing a point..."
point being that in this day and age, having the lgbt community behind you is pretty...well, a make or break point...but then again, that seems to be mainly a democratic strategy only...republicans could care less whether we vote for them or not
"In GOOL THEATER... Lucas and Dex consider taking a vacation together on the Dutch version of Good Times, Bad Times."
First of all, there is NO clip of GTST in GOOL Theater (weird, since Lucas was on 4 days last week). And second, if there was a clip, it wouldn't include Lucas and Dex considering taking a vacation together because that hasn't even happened yet! And it won't happen, because Nina is the one who comes up with the idea for the three of them to go to Disneyland Paris. And that will happen on Thursday...
I love that fantastic interview with Ron Carlivati so much,what a wonderful and talanted man he is! and i'm SO EXCITED for upcoming story for our adorable guys(the spoilers are amazing!) and as a BIG FAN of Nicolas Rodriguez (did you hear how he sings?it's great!) i'm so happy he is come back and will going to be involve with Kyle and Oliver story again,i just CAN'T WAIT TO SEE that what Nicolas talked about in his interview.
I following to many many TV series now and before which have a gay storyline actually,but the only one i can think about right now it's OLTL gay romance,they are amazing!
As a very new viewer to OLTL, I only started watching bout 2 weeks ago and not daily, it seems written as mangled as ATWT's. I do give kudos to the gay storyline n I'm liking the crippled kids plight, but the drunk girl n the Mad Preacher coming back from the dead with Nash's corpse is as stupid and poorly acted as any other soap at this time, at least to me.
I will give you that there is more consistency with the characters though. As I've stated on ATWT everyday its a whole new oakdale.
The reason I think I could start watching OLTL is that it seems that the writers and the long time characters seem to have a relationship and go back and forth with ideas and such. On ATWT the writers don't seem to give a crap bout the actors or the characters they have portrayed just shut up,, hit your mark n say your lines.
N something that I've been pondering and thought I would throw it out, do ya'll think that it's going to be easier to have a bedroom scene with 2 adult gay men than with 2 fresh faced in college boyish twinks? That always seemed to me the problem with Nuke, the fact that they looked so youngish that they seemed more like they should be paling around than hitting the sheets. OLTL's Kish there is an adultness to it, its two grown men. Just seems more lusty than anything Nuke has ever been given.
I have to agree with you about the characers on OLTL being written pretty consistently unlike characters on ATWT. You get a sense of who characters are and what they would do in a situation. I also think the character's dialogue on the show is very natural and believable. Even in far-fetch storylines (and OLTL has had some doozies over the years) the characters speak as if they are real people which I find the most refreshing about the show.
OLTL is not perfect. No show is. But writing is OLTL's strong suit at the moment. Characters are likeable and you are reminded of connections between characters which is pretty amazing in this day and age where the soaps appear to be writing their stories in bubbles so as to not have too many characters in storlines to reduce the number of the cast members while shooting. Much like RC mentions the limits in the number of sets used per episode there are probably some limits on the number of characters that can be involved in scenes/storylines. Brad's funeral on ATWT, for example, would have been SO much more moving if more of Brad's huge family were in attendance. His aunt Emma was missing. What about his cousin Meg? Little cousins? Not even Lily was there. With a family as large and extensive as the Snyders you have to at least mention why so many of them were not in attendance. The ones living out of town off canvas have good excuses but what about those that live right there in town? It was pitiful that none of those things were addressed.
Once upon a time I died. And like my namesake I got better.
to appear on OLTL. My eyes are already blinded by the hotness that are Scott, Brett & Nick. If you bring Chris on too, I will have to dodge the shrapnel of my tv exploding, and my eyeballs will simply melt out of their sockets. And I like my eyeballs, thank you very much.
[note to self...check hourly for news of Chris guesting on OLTL, squee!]
Two shows that are plugged here:GTST and Niños Ricos, Pobres Padres and yet they just seem to play on recent trends regarding gay story lines.
A teenage boy giving an older woman advice about dating men? Hmmm....count me out til they get to where he IS a teenage boy. GTST
And teenagers with no hormones gushing through their veins?....count me in when they become teenage boys. NRPP
Oh and the gay marriage debate? Best comment I saw in a forum was about a mother who had to explain to her son why men were getting married and why is that normal? Is these shows do nothing but desentisize the general public towards the issue, they will have succeeded where politics will have failed.
by 
Thanks for the interview with Ron Carlivati
silly stuff...
I love how anyone with musical talent is wanted to sing in their roles. I think oliver singing would be random as...well, as a musical in general. LMAO. i'm thinking every show needs to have a musical episode, just to get it out of the way. ;-)
i really want to see kyle and oliver jump on a bed and then ask "what the hell are we doing?" and then get off.....just as a way of poking fun at when luke and noah did it.
it'd be amusing, come on! :-P
OLTL and Music
While Oliver singing would still be kind of random, it wouldn't be as odd on OLTL as it would be on some other shows. KDP (Blair) sings on a semi-regular basis, and the show itself is very musical, regularly featuring musical montages at the climax of the episode, and using lots of musical guests.
The trick would be to find a logical place, like Karaoke night at one of the show's two clubs. I'm not calling for it, but it could work.
In other soap/music news, a friend of mine called The Internet informs me that the version of "Mad World" that's been playing at the end of every episode of General Hospital for the last couple of weeks is the Adam Lambert version. (I didn't even know there WAS an Adam Lambert version. I think it's the first time I've actually heard him sing.)
And just to make it even more gay-adjacent, given how much build-up they've given the shadowy character associated with that leitmotif, I'm thinking it has to be James Franco's character.
Re: Music
Actually GH has done a lot of characters singing Karaoke over the past few months - so it is not un-soapy.
And, although I only marginally followed AI - Adam sang Mad World twice - it was/is a very popular cover. And from what I have gathered from the boards James Franco is going to be a very wild character on GH.
OLTL Singers and Mad World
Oliver could easily get up on a Karaoke night at Capricorn or Rodi's and sing his peepee off for Kyle. Nick could do the same. To me, one of the most effective uses of an actor's singing ability that was incorporated in OLTL was when Evangeline (Renee Elise Goldsberry of THE COLOR PURPLE and the final Broadway Mimi in RENT fame), Mitch Laurence's former lawyer, sang Stevie Wonder's ALL IN LOVE IS FAIR to illustrate musically the love triangle with her, John McPain in the Ass and Natalie. That's one of my all-time favorite OLTL moments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tq7GcxzPeqg
Kathy Brier's Marcie also burst into song when she was being harassed by some mean-girl types and she sang GOD BLESS AMERICA of all songs. Kerry Butler's (Kira from XANADU ON BROADWAY) Claudia also belted her ass on OLTL while whining about Forbes March's Nash, her ex-fiance. So, why not our guys Scott and Nicholas? I'd LOVE to hear them sing on the show.
And yes, GH has been doing these Karaoke episodes and they have AWFUL singers. They had that AMERICAN IDOL reject come on and sing AGAINST ALL ODDS (probably one of the most overplayed songs on IDOL) and it was a bummer.
I didn't know Adam Lambert (who, incidentally, co-starred with Nicholas Rodriguez and Val Kilmer in the L.A. production of THE TEN COMMANDMENTS) already had his version of MAD WORLD out. The version GH plays doesn't sound like Adam's at all but some other generic cover singer... And GH is really ruining it for me because I loved the song ever since I heard Tears for Fears debut it, but GH is playing it every damn time it's foreshadowing the James Franco storyline. Argh...
Why hasn't anyone mentioned the possibility of singing...
in the shower? It seems the most obvious to me.
Kitty
This is not what we planned, and I know its hard to understand....but if this isn't what you need then pry my fingers from your hand. ~Darren Hayes
Singing in the Shower
Well, I think it would stretch the limits of believability to have him break out into a produced, musically accompanied musical number in the shower, and I suspect that's what a lot of us would want - him actually showing his musical talent, as opposed to what would really be a cute bit of character business.
Not that I wouldn't like to see Fish sing in the shower as a cute bit of character business, but it wouldn't be the talent showcase we're really talking about here.
Even on Glee, I've seen fans complain when the characters break out into choreographed, accompanied musical numbers when there's no good in-story reason for that to happen, and it's MUCH more logical for it to happen there than on OLTL!
What's new pussy cat..whoooah (hic)
Thoughts of Oliver doing karaoke brought on memories of that scene in Brothers and Sisters- I think Season 2- when Kevin attempted to impress Scotty's friends at a karaoke bar and prove he wasn't uptight, culminating in a ridonckulous drunken rendition of 'You were always on my mind'
Pity Kyle doesn't have any friends except his landlady- still, the stage is yours Officer Fish... :D Perhaps to impress Nick? Whatever..
______________________________
"You know when I heard Sandy wanted to write himself into a scene as Queen Cleopatra; I was aroused, and then furious.."
Sue Sylvester, Oh, you know where it's from (!)
If the Fish/Kyle/Nick triangle continues
Great Idea!
John Barrowman and Daniel Boys cover I KNOW HIM SO WELL in Barrowman's latest CD, MUSIC MUSIC MUSIC, and they do a great job with it. I prefer their version to the original by Elaine Paige and Barbara Dickson.
It'd be hot to see Scott and Nicholas sing this!
The Boy Is Mine.
Themed Episodes
OLTL is known for doing musical themed episodes a couple times a year. I would think the way they could have all the actors sing is to have some type of setup where someone is telling a classic story about love or they do a take off on famous stories through out the ages. They've done things like this before to great success.
Once upon a time I died. And like my namesake I got better.
Wonderful interview with RC
Thank you so much for the wonderful interview with Ron Carlivati. I'm overwhelmed and overjoyed by the Kish storyline, and the show itself, overall (heck, I was even crying today when Natalie was getting emotional over Jared's death (so sad to see John Brotherton leave the show). I can't wait to see what happens next with Fish, Kyle and Nick--I just hope somehow they can wrangle That (Magnificent) Bitch Téa Delgado into the orbit of their story.
By the way, Ron, Scott, Brett and Nick attended the Annual GLAAD OUTAuction NYC on November 15; here's a pic, and more can be found at this link:
http://www.broadwayworld.com/article/Photo_Coverage_The_8th_Annual_GLAAD_OUTAuction_NYC_20091116
Brett!
hey wait a minute!
IS THAT SCOTT'S HANDS AROUND BRETT'S WAIST?!?!?
and there i thought they were only just dating on camera!
i know ... i know.... wishful thinking...!
it's nice to dream though......
:-)
Pic caption
Actually, I think Scott has his arms around 2 guys, which would mean he's probably thinking, "What?? I'm not getting any gift bag for attending this function? In that case, I'll take two of these.".
HOT four men!
they all look just stunning! i want them all, LOL
thanks for post it:)
Agreed to the max!!
That is about the hottest looking fousome (with 3 out gay men!!) I have seen in a long time!
How could you choose from among such gorgeousness and talent?
Great Interview with RC
brothers and sisters...(kevin)
i am really glad i am not watching this season. kevin seems so damned annoying everytime i read the recaps and whatever.
on that subject, it seems that won't go away anytime soon. Now he won't be able to handle scotty having better/stronger sperm (yay i love typing that word.)
Seeing as i am a woman, i shouldn't judge such a situation, but couldn't they just do what they did in.....season...1 (I think it was S1) and give sperm and not know who the father is.....but whatever, i don't know. i'm not a man, so i don't know the emotional issues about that. just shooting it out there.
Stronger Swimmers
I see what you did there.
i actually didn't think about that til i re-read it...
i actually didn't think about it til i re-read it and then thought "eh, maybe i should reword it..." but then decided it was amusing, so i left it in. i love when i write double meanings and don't even mean to.
;-)
Just not feeling OLTL
I'm the naysayer here because I have not liked OLTL's writing. I'd like to forget Oliver's summer of heterosexual sex. I'd like to forget that Stacy is even on the show. Why would I want to see Oliver dragged into that mess? OR paired with Fath and Lavoisier who are pathetically bad actors? There was also no reason to tell this story so fast. If you build a story on a solid foundation, you don't have to go back and fix the cracks. IF the Nick/Oliver/Kyle triangle had been written as an actual triangle with real emotions at stake, there would be no reason to go back. They wouldn't have to flesh out Nick's character now if they had done it before.
Why wasn't Carlivati asked about the people (including Robin Strasser) who feel the gay marriage storyline trivialised an important civil rights issue? Not everyone is buying what Carlivati is selling, and for some reason, Carlivati gets a free pass--not just on this site, but in much of the soap press. It boggles my mind. I also think it was disingenuous of Carlivati to say he didn't get much inspiration from ATWT since the story pretty much followed their plotting up until the ridiculous wedding stuff. I know it's commonplace to bash ATWT, but it's a lot easier when you're the second show to tell a "gay" love storyline. Carlivati should know about network interference since a lot of his storylines have been vetoed. ATWT might have a ban on any intimacy between Luke and Noah, but all of the ABC shows are very similar in their storylines involving women. You can't tell me that's not a mandate from Frons.
Jared's death meant nothing to me. This is the same storyline that Jessica went through last year. We have Bo/Nora redux. Todd/Tea/Blair/Ross redux. Mitch back yet again. So much of OLTL feels like I've see it all before, and I have.
But on the other hand
you could say exactly the same thing for every other soap. At least Kish hasn't been recycled.
So stop watching soaps - the writing will never be Oscar grade and the s/l will be aimed towards their target audience who have massive passions about the shallowest of characters.
Agreed on Recycling
On ATWT, all you need do is look at Carly and Jack's and Holden and Lily's storylines, and they have been in this circuitous and cyclical mess for years now. And in Lily and Holden's case, for over 2 decades, ATWT has played the same stories for these characters with 3 actresses having inhabited the role of Lily during that time. Another example would be Paul, who kidnapped his daughter at least twice within a 6-month period.
Talk about recycling what's already been dumped, recycled, used and then dumped again!
Bad writing (OLTL)
ATWT has bad writing. No arguments here, but the good parts of Carlivati's writing didn't recycle storylines. As I'm not interested in Carly and Jack part 34, I'm not interested in yet another Buchanan son-in-law killed or Blair/Todd/Tea or even Bo/Nora. Why were most people excited about the idea of Oliver and Kyle? Because it was something new.
As for the "Don't watch" response, I want OLTL to succeed. I don't want it cancelled. OLTL was in last place in total viewers last time ratings were released. I'm worried for its longevity, and rubber stamping mediocrity is not going to help.
Interesting points
I understand where you are coming from with the whole Big Gay wedding and how it could be seen as trivializing gay civil rights. I personally only saw the wedding as a backdrop to tell the typical dramatic soap "leave-'em-at-the-altar-for-your-true-love" story with a gay twist. I don't think Carlivati was trying to be politcal even though gay marriage is a huge hotly debated political issue, which is like playing with fire. There is always going to be someone who gets burned.
However, when you say Kyle and Oliver's story "...pretty much followed their plotting up until the ridiculous wedding stuff." in regards to ATWT's Nuke , I disagree. If you meant that the plotting of Oliver's coming out story closesly resembled that of Noah's coming out...well there have been coming out stories in movies and tv way before both. So Carlivati doesn't necessarily have to be influenced by ATWT to tell his gay story. Hell he could have even been influenced by foreign soaps with gay storylines.
I don't see the Kish storyline as merely "the second show to tell a 'gay' love storyline" but as an upgrade. Kinda how we upgrade technology every few years for something a lot better.
Nuke =
Nintendo GamecubeSuper NintendoKish = Nintendo Wii
The Gay Marriage Story Point
Was nothing more than a plot device to place Kyle in the situation where he HAD to choose between Oliver and Nick and for Dorian to choose between her ambitions and desire to beat Viki and her love for David. It would have been a mistake for the show to centralize gay marriage and push it as something the audience should accept and agree with. That's just asking for trouble, so Ron was smart in using that as a plot device and nothing more. Sure, it's a big topic right now in the real world (Exhibit A - the idiots up in Albany, NY who are pussyfooting the issue), but that wasn't the intent of OLTL - to push that hot political button.
And I don't think that Ron's use of the Big Gay Weddings was trivializing the real life problems of same sex couples who cannot avail themselves of the benefits of marriage. I thought the issues were discussed respectfully, but ultimately, there will be no resolution in Llanview because as much as I'd like him to, Ron cannot convince the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania or its highest court to turn gay marriages into reality in PA.
OLTL and trivialising the gay marriage issue
OLTL followed ATWT's model up to the coming out. It then branched out into the gay marriage nonsense. I remember when soap critics and viewers were complaining about Noah's straight boy summer when everyone knew he was meant for Luke. Yes, there have been coming out stories, but the soap world is so incestuous, and Frons so desirous of sticking it to CBS that I find it impossible to believe Carlivati's claims.
As for trivialising the issue of gay marriage, who were the advocates for gay marriage? A whack job lesbian who only wears one suit and another who forces his quickie boyfriend into agreeing to marry him. Yes, there was the whole speech about true love, but by that point, the damage was done. I lost count of the number of people in my real life who complained about the "Gay marriage nonsense." They were complaining about the way the story was told--complaints echoed in letters to the editors in various soap publications. It sacrificed character for the plot, and if it didn't, they would not need to go back and correct the mistakes they made with the character of Nick.
It's cowardly to say you're not political when 1.)telling a gay romantic story is political 2.)You're telling a story about mayoral race where the major issue is gay marriage 3.)A real life anti-gay marriage ballot will be voted on during your storyline. Why have the participants in the gay marriage storyline be non-couples? Why not do this storyline in February or May as part of a recall election? Why couldn't Kyle be in love with the person he agreed to marry? Why were all the people wanting to get married in loveless relationships?
Art can teach and enact change so why cheapen an issue by making it part of a farce? Think about this: how many of our perceptions of the world and its citizens have been formed by television and films? If television doesn’t have an effect, what are the commercials for? Why do most shows take pains to get medical details right? If the visual arts have no impact, why boycott perceived homophobic films like CRUISING because you fear it will incite violence? If films and shows can incite violence, why can’t they incite a new way of thinking about an issue? What did this story show people who never thought about the issue of gay marriage? What message did it send? Gay marriage activists are unhinged.
Well...
That is very tragic state of affairs if real-life gay marriage activists became unhinged, and I don't believe that to be the case, because of a story on a SOAP OPERA.
I'm sure the good folks at the Human Rights Campaign and other gay marriage advocacy groups had better things to do than think of, let alone actually use, a plot point on a soap to help advance the cause and fight the good fight for marriage equality.
Messages (Soap Operas)
You know
I could go point for point in the ways the two stories were different but I'll just say this. Homophobic parent(s) are pretty standard for a coming out story, but unless and until Fish's father grabs a gun and insanely stalks Kyle through the woods, and shoots at him after pretending that everything was hunky dory then we'll have to agree to disagree that OLTL followed ATWT's model up until the wedding.
And yes the gay advocates for gay marriage that they focused on were Nick and Amelia, but I'd say they were not the point. They are minor characters on the landscape. The fact that pretty much every major character on the show, kids, teens, including the two undisputed Queens of that show were not only in support of gay marriage but had an 'of course we support it, why wouldn't you' attitude was much more subtle than an 'in your face oh so serious-here's what we're teaching you' storyline that a lot of people might have turned away from. Did Dorian use it as a tactic to get elected? Sure. That's Dorian--she uses everybody and everything. Did the show make a point of saying you should be able to marry who you love? yes, they did that too. Wacky story line that had people tuning in to see what exactly was going to happen.
Soaps take very few things seriously, I mean Stacy had a miscarriage and was plotting the next day to get pregnant again, which happend within a week? But that doesn't always mean something is trivialized either. For my part they didn't trivialize it, they made it a part of the landscape of the show.
trivializing marriage period....
Well you see marriages in general on Soaps are a joke. People get married and then divorce 2 seconds later....and then get remarried shortly after that..ad nauseum. And that is just the heterosexuals. What message does that say about marriage, not a very good one. SO if any anti-gay advocate would ever point to OLTL's big gay wedding to demonstrate the evils of gay marriage, well there are thousands of examples on soaps to demonstrate the crap of heterosexual marriage. I mean how many times has Dorian been married?
I just think no one should ever be looking to soaps for any positive image of marriage because that is what they do in order to keep couples apart and extend storylines. I think they will win over more hearts if they show a genuine love story between Oliver and Kyle.
If....
Coming out on daytime
AMC's coming out story was so long ago that I doubt many writers remember it [Passanante probably does], and AMC's story had a completely different tone and focus to it. I also recall many viewers wanting the gay man and the woman (don't remember the names) to get together. No such reaction to the stories on ATWT or OLTL which is a sign of progress. The coming out stories on A and O were similar (heterosexual summer, hiding behind women, military father, father confronting boyfriend, gay man confiding in older woman, etc.) and then OLTL branched out. Since soaps steal from other soaps, I don't believe Carlivati's comments.
Yes, OLTL has done some good stuff, but a lot of it was dreck, and the dreck was and is often overlooked or minimised, and I'm not just referring to Kyle/Fish.
oh Anthony
when have you written anything bad about Kish. You and every gay publication continue to praise RC for his groundbreaking gay triangle. This storyline has been poorly executed from the jump. Every character did an 180 to make this storyline work. Fish went from manwhore to tortured soul. Kyle went from badboy to fickled. Nick was just clueless. Character inconsistency can kill a soap.
The wedding ceremony was just laughable. The story lacked all the elements that makes daytime work romance,drama,suspense and passion.
wholesome laughter has great face value
Well.....
Sorry, I'm not agreeing with
Sorry, I'm not agreeing with your logic either. While OLTL certainly has the requisite soap format absurdities and conventions, the writing is lightyears better than any of the other soaps running at this time, even if you take the gay storylines out of the picture. Just the integration of characters and s/l's and the wit that is included on OLTL makes ATWT look like it is written by 10 year olds.
Though I agree the triangle was rushed and thinly written (so far), (due to constraints of timing the show's election to match actual election day I believe) it was and is and actual gay triangle with 3 appealing, age appropriate characters, compared to the pathetic horny grandpa and creepy Isadora Duncan wannabe s/l's on ATWT. They are not even in the same universe as far as quality of s/l, writing, and acting IMO.
Whether the mass wedding s/l was a trivialization or an insult is entirely up to the viewers opinion. I thought it was a lighthearted, over-the-top backdrop for the Kish romance, and it once again tied into many other s/l's (BlairTnT, the teen scene, the election, et al) in a way that other soaps these days can't touch. It alluded to an important current issue without the lecturing sledgehammer. I enjoyed it thoroughly.
I totally agree with BobbyBaby
I don't think OLTL is perfect--no show is--but when it does get something right, it gets it brilliantly right. Currently, OLTL is the best-written soap on the air--smart, sophisticated, witty, marvelously plotted, filled with interesting characters played by wonderful actors. I think it's better than most prime-time TV shows, as well.
As BB said, OLTL does a marvelous job of integrating their many characters into the fabric of Llanview society, so that often what happens to one character has a domino effect reaching across the social strata. They don't exist in bubbles, like they do on, say, Y&R and ATWT, or even prime-time TV shows like Trauma.
And the Fish/Kyle/Nick triangle, for whatever imperfections it may have had (being rushed, for example) was still genuinely revolutionary and it payed off wonderfully. And I don't think the big gay wedding trivialized the issue at all; several characters, not just Fish/Kyle/Nick, but also Starr, Langston and others presented their support--and their reasons for their support--of the issue. It was done naturalistically, without a sledgehammer. That they managed to incorporate Blair's defenestration into the mix made for even MORE gripping television.
Agree & Disagree
I don't agree with everything you said (more on that in a second), but I do want to co-sign your criticism of the Carlivati interview.
When news of this storyline first broke, I was skeptical of the message it sent about gay marriage and, more importantly, about what it said about being true to your identity (it's not okay for Oliver to pretend to be straight, but it's okay for Dorian to pretend to be gay?). It just trivialized things for me.
Plus, as a matter of visibility, there was FINALLY an African-American lesbian on the canvas (cause, you know, those are SO plentiful) and she wasn't given any backstory at all. Will we even see Amelia again after the election story concludes?
I adore Kyle and Fish, don't get me wrong, but there were definitely some things wrong with this storyline and no member of the soap press has stepped up with a critical eye to ask Carlavati about any of this. I've offered similar complaints to Nelson Branco, Michael Fairman, etc. Not to mention that OLTL is approaching Guiding Light-status in terms of ratings...
But yes, I agree with you on that point...the others? Not so much.
I'm not sure how one could equate Nash and Jared's death--without getting into the storylines too deeply, one was an accident, the other, clearly, was not. Jared's death meant something to me, if only because John Brotherton was the only thing making Natalie's character interesting. I dread the inevitable John-Natalie reunion.
JPL and Farah Fath aren't bad actors--or, at least, they didn't use to be. Their disapproval of the overall storyline has managed to seep into their current portrayals but they weren't always this bad (Gigi's drunk scenes might be the worst thing I've seen on daytime since Thom Bierdz first came back).
I still don't know why anyone would fight over Todd but I think motherhood adds a new layer to the Tea/Todd/Blair triangle that we haven't seen before. I'm anxious to see Dani interact with her siblings.
---
"Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere. We are caught inan inescapable network of mutuality, tied in a single garment ofdestiny. Whatever affects one directly, affects all indirectly." - MLK
OLTL
Jared did kill Nash. It was not written that way, but the staging made it clear that Jared killed him. IF people thought Forbes March has been awful on ATWT, they should watch his last days on OLTL.
Maria Arena Bell (headwriter on YR) got a free pass for a while, but the tide has changed. I wonder if Carlivati gets a free ride because most of the journalists are gay and they are just happy to have gay characters on a show. For a while, ATWT had its defenders even during the kissing ban.
I had many of your concerns about the gay marriage storyline. I've been so disappointed in the way the story has played out.
yeah, i thought that was pretty lame...
I was skeptical of the message it sent about gay marriage and, more importantly, about what it said about being true to your identity (it's not okay for Oliver to pretend to be straight, but it's okay for Dorian to pretend to be gay?). It just trivialized things for me.
^ yes, this whole situation just made me roll my eyes and constantly ask "seriously now?"
I get that it's a show, and a soap that that, but hey...some things can still cause eye rolling for me.
at the same time, i did think "well, i think the show is sort of showing a point..."
point being that in this day and age, having the lgbt community behind you is pretty...well, a make or break point...but then again, that seems to be mainly a democratic strategy only...republicans could care less whether we vote for them or not
Ahem...
First of all, there is NO clip of GTST in GOOL Theater (weird, since Lucas was on 4 days last week). And second, if there was a clip, it wouldn't include Lucas and Dex considering taking a vacation together because that hasn't even happened yet! And it won't happen, because Nina is the one who comes up with the idea for the three of them to go to Disneyland Paris. And that will happen on Thursday...
Oh thank you dear Anthony!!!.... (*spoilers*)
I love that fantastic interview with Ron Carlivati so much,what a wonderful and talanted man he is! and i'm SO EXCITED for upcoming story for our adorable guys(the spoilers are amazing!) and as a BIG FAN of Nicolas Rodriguez (did you hear how he sings?it's great!) i'm so happy he is come back and will going to be involve with Kyle and Oliver story again,i just CAN'T WAIT TO SEE that what Nicolas talked about in his interview.
I following to many many TV series now and before which have a gay storyline actually,but the only one i can think about right now it's OLTL gay romance,they are amazing!
thank you Anthony:)
OLTL
As a very new viewer to OLTL, I only started watching bout 2 weeks ago and not daily, it seems written as mangled as ATWT's. I do give kudos to the gay storyline n I'm liking the crippled kids plight, but the drunk girl n the Mad Preacher coming back from the dead with Nash's corpse is as stupid and poorly acted as any other soap at this time, at least to me.
I will give you that there is more consistency with the characters though. As I've stated on ATWT everyday its a whole new oakdale. The reason I think I could start watching OLTL is that it seems that the writers and the long time characters seem to have a relationship and go back and forth with ideas and such. On ATWT the writers don't seem to give a crap bout the actors or the characters they have portrayed just shut up,, hit your mark n say your lines.
N something that I've been pondering and thought I would throw it out, do ya'll think that it's going to be easier to have a bedroom scene with 2 adult gay men than with 2 fresh faced in college boyish twinks? That always seemed to me the problem with Nuke, the fact that they looked so youngish that they seemed more like they should be paling around than hitting the sheets. OLTL's Kish there is an adultness to it, its two grown men. Just seems more lusty than anything Nuke has ever been given.
Characters....
I have to agree with you about the characers on OLTL being written pretty consistently unlike characters on ATWT. You get a sense of who characters are and what they would do in a situation. I also think the character's dialogue on the show is very natural and believable. Even in far-fetch storylines (and OLTL has had some doozies over the years) the characters speak as if they are real people which I find the most refreshing about the show.
OLTL is not perfect. No show is. But writing is OLTL's strong suit at the moment. Characters are likeable and you are reminded of connections between characters which is pretty amazing in this day and age where the soaps appear to be writing their stories in bubbles so as to not have too many characters in storlines to reduce the number of the cast members while shooting. Much like RC mentions the limits in the number of sets used per episode there are probably some limits on the number of characters that can be involved in scenes/storylines. Brad's funeral on ATWT, for example, would have been SO much more moving if more of Brad's huge family were in attendance. His aunt Emma was missing. What about his cousin Meg? Little cousins? Not even Lily was there. With a family as large and extensive as the Snyders you have to at least mention why so many of them were not in attendance. The ones living out of town off canvas have good excuses but what about those that live right there in town? It was pitiful that none of those things were addressed.
Once upon a time I died. And like my namesake I got better.
Sorry, but I don't want Chris Evans...
[note to self...check hourly for news of Chris guesting on OLTL, squee!]
Good Times Bad Times- Dutch
Sorry!
Plugs
Two shows that are plugged here:GTST and Niños Ricos, Pobres Padres and yet they just seem to play on recent trends regarding gay story lines.
A teenage boy giving an older woman advice about dating men? Hmmm....count me out til they get to where he IS a teenage boy. GTST
And teenagers with no hormones gushing through their veins?....count me in when they become teenage boys. NRPP
Oh and the gay marriage debate? Best comment I saw in a forum was about a mother who had to explain to her son why men were getting married and why is that normal? Is these shows do nothing but desentisize the general public towards the issue, they will have succeeded where politics will have failed.