Ask the Flying Monkey (August 27, 2008)Q: I am just wondering about gay-themed teen novels. I have read most books by Alex Sanchez which I have enjoyed a lot. In the past you have mentioned some books before and have even written one, Geography Club, which I enjoyed as well. I know they're teen novels but I do find them the best for an easy read with a good gay story. Could you recommend some that follow in the footsteps of Sanchez' storytelling? Paul, Toronto, Canada A: Here’s a little secret about teen novels: they’re very often read by adults. Why? Well, the Monkey has a theory that the teen years are truly the “universal” experience: almost every reader on earth is a teenager or they were one once. But in the case of adult gay men, the Monkey thinks a lot of us read gay teen novels because they give us a chance to read about, or “re-live,” the teen years that were often stolen from us. I think that might be a big reason why I write these novels — to rewrite my own teen years (and give them a happier ending). The Monkey also thinks that teen novels are far less self-indulgent than many “adult” novels, more tightly plotted and more clearly written (but that’s a whole other discussion). Anyway, some of the Monkey’s favorite gay-themed teen novels are The Year of Ice by Brian Malloy, Leave Myself Behind by Bart Yates, How I Paid for College by Marc Acito, The World of Normal Boys by K. M. Soehnlein, and Boy Meets Boy by David Levithan. I’ve also heard mostly good things about Someday This Pain Will be Useful to You by Peter Cameron, and I just finished The Screwed Up Life of Charlie the Second, which was funny, but almost surreally smutty.
Q: I read your answer to the censorship question on Logo. While I understand the answer for ad driven television, why is it that when we "buy" the videos, such as Alec Mapa's Wisecrack, on iTunes [it is] still censored? There should be an option to buy it without the bleeping.-- Brian, Seattle, WA
Have a question about gay male entertainment? Ask the Monkey!
Submitted by on Tue, 2008-08-26 21:09. I don't think re-doing MySubmitted by
Randommer (1155 points) (240 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 02:34.I don't think re-doing My Fair Lady is as pointless as some re-makes (hello, Psycho). It's not a direct re make so much as a new adaptation of a source material, so there'll quite likely be enough differences to make it worthwhile.
And isn't Higgins supposed to be considerably older then her? Colin's hardly old enough to be her grandfather.
I thought "Someday ThisSubmitted by
François Peneaud (674 points) (137 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 03:23.I thought "Someday This Pain Will be Useful to You" was one of the best books I've read recently. I quite like Peter Cameron's previous books, but this one is the one I'd definitely recommend.
François Peter CameronSubmitted by
Steven Frank (429 points) (421 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 08:23.I really like Cameron's books too -- The Weekend is wonderful and has really interesting gay characters. I hadn't heard of "Someday this Pain" before but I'm now looking forward to reading it. Thanks, Brent, for all the recommendations. It's always great to hear about good books and discover new writers.
What did you think ofSubmitted by
François Peneaud (674 points) (137 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 11:01.What did you think of Andorra? I must admit that one wasn't very convincing for me. Not bad, but a bit flat.
François I've liked all of PeterSubmitted by
I've liked all of Peter Cameron's books so far, but oddly, I liked THE WEEKEND least, even though it's the most "gay." THE CITY OF YOUR FINAL DESTINATION is probably my favorite. I liked ANDORRA too, but not as much.
Read my books! Explore "Brent's Brain" at http://www.brenthartinger.com no votes I've noticed that we oftenSubmitted by
François Peneaud (674 points) (137 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 14:07.I've noticed that we often disagree on books or films :)
François :-)Submitted by
Read my books! Explore "Brent's Brain" at http://www.brenthartinger.com no votes Drake and JoshSubmitted by
Aloe (744 points) (151 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 05:42.I've never even watched one episode of D&J. Did they really have gay jokes in every episode?
Teen BooksSubmitted by
Josh Aterovis, Contributing Writer (594 points) (474 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 08:28.I also write teen books with a 16 year old gay main character named Killian Kendall. They're murder mysteries. The first book is called Bleeding Hearts and the second is Reap the Whirlwind. The third will hopefully be out in the next year and is titled All Lost Things. Mr. FridaySubmitted by
poof (667 points) (136 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 09:22.Hubby and I started watching this show and lasted only a few episodes. The first one was kinda funny, but the next few really pissed me off. I was thoroughly disgusted by it and a few episoded later we stopped. The initial look he got from people (men) the moment he opened his mouth was typical disgust. I'm not sure if Mr Friday was really effeminate or this was just an act for the show. I'm suspecting a bit of both. To me, his reaction to all of the butch job roles he was to accomplish each episode was over the top. For example, one episode he was doing the job of a female sales worker at a Christmas store. One of the things he had to do was harvest christmas trees. Well, Mr Friday's effeminate reaction to this job was totally over the top. He was screaming and being a real priss over having to simply cut down a tree. At this point, I started to hate this show. Now, maybe this was all part of the act to make the show interesting, but honestly, it was offensive. Of course at the end of the show, the staff at the various jobs, warmed up to him (sort, some stil had look of disgust) and Dereck did do something nice for the person he was taking over for the day.
Year of IceSubmitted by
Jeremymlad (623 points) (129 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 09:35.Oh my! I'd forgotten how much I loved The Year of Ice until you mentioned it. First read it way back when I was still sneaking around my religious school's library, trying to read anything gay I could scavenge - it was one of the best things I'd found, for many reasons. I think I will have to pull my copy off the shelf and read it again directly!
And visit the bookstore to find some of the others you listed.
Teen booksSubmitted by
atweaver (365 points) (69 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 09:40.I would recommend Mark A. Roeder's books. So far, I have only read one of them, but they seem to be very good. They are set in small-town Indiana in the 1950s.
NickSubmitted by
Brock Savage (992 points) (213 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 09:56.Brent: I don't think Nickelodeon's lack of response has anything to do with AE being a gay site. Nick is full of the gays, and is a very gay friendly place. The actual TV content not so much, I guess, but the people could probably give LOGO a run for the money in terms of queerness. Speaking of which, LOGO and Nick are sister networks, in the same building. You should be able to get an answer. www.thebittersuite.blogspot.com
It's a technicality, I know...Submitted by
Wolfi (467 points) (126 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 10:05....but the VL clips are SUBTITLED not DUBBED. ;-)
-- You're right!Submitted by
Fixed!
combining racist and homophobic entertainmentSubmitted by
ms.bossy (30 points) (6 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 10:24.Mr. Friday isn't the gay version of a minstrel show. It IS a gay minstrel show. Race cannot be separated from homophobia in Derek Friday's case. This show bring out the worse in viewers' natures. On another subject: I just finished "His Dark Materials", the trilogy by Philip Pullman. Tome III contains lovely gay angels. Love young adult fiction. Way more inventive and challenging than adult fic. Good pointSubmitted by
Read my books! Explore "Brent's Brain" at http://www.brenthartinger.com no votes May God bless Nanna, ourSubmitted by
Andros (1205 points) (261 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 13:54.May God bless Nanna, our favorite german lady. :D She has no idea the amount of joy that she has brought into my life by letting me see Ollian weekly.
What's with the Marni Nixon dissing? SHE IS A GODDESS!!!Submitted by
David Ehrenstein (7805 points) (1725 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 14:21.Get yourselves nher Jerome Kern album.
As for Higgins and Pickering, how about Neil Patrick Harris and Alec Mapa? Can't get any gayer than that.
Of course I want to cast NPH in everything these days, especially because of THIS --
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhXsJjVdj1E&feature=related Marni's lyrics are "sung,"Submitted by
Marni's lyrics are "sung," not performed. It looks like Audrey Hepburn is lip-synching to a soundtrack, which she IS, rather than actually singing the words. I've seen clips of Audrey's own vocals (which were replaced by Marni), and I think she worked FINE.
Read my books! Explore "Brent's Brain" at http://www.brenthartinger.com no votes One More Vote in favor of the marvelous MarnieSubmitted by
BobbyBaby (496 points) (115 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 14:59.I have to disagree with you totally on this topic. Just because someone (i.e., a big Hollywood star) can carry a tune, it does not mean the audience should have to endure their amateur renditions of classic musical theatre scores. I am sure that the divine Audrey, Natalie Wood, and Deborah Kerr could have warbled passable attempts at the classic songs by Rogers and Hammerstein and Bernstein, as could your Aunt Tillie, but that does not mean I want their feeble attempts preserved for eternity on the big screen. Your way of thinking gives us the appalling performances of Gerard Butler in Phantom and Helena Bonham Carter in Sweeny. Marnie dubbing for both (ridiculous as the idea is) would have been preferrable to these disasters. The point is, if you are going to film a movie musical, hire a professional caliber singer (there are plenty of movie stars with actual singing chops). The alternative is movie star karaoke. These glorious classic scores are supposed to be sung (and well sung) as well as acted. You can't method act your way into being a professional singer. The results are always tepid disappointments. First, let me state up frontSubmitted by
First, let me state up front that I knew I'd be roasted for my anti-Marni comments. But apparently, I can't resist poking the hornet's nest! (I'm actually surprised it took this long in the comments to get to this...! lol)
Now in principle I agree with you. Casting Helena Bonham Carter was a terrible mistake. I DO think actors in musicals should be able to, you know, sing. (Though apparently that rule doesn't include Rex Harrison...) My problem with Marni Nixon is that she SOUNDS like a singer, not an actor inhabiting the character. It's the way Audrey was dubbed that sounds so stupid. She literally sounds like she's singing along to a soundtrack. Not organic at all. Maybe this is because Hepburn recorded the vocals, and then they were all "replaced" with Marni. But the effect just doesn't work, IMHO. Here's where I get controversial: while I detest the casting of non-singers in musicals (see Julia Roberts and most of the rest of the cast in EVERYONE SAYS I LOVE YOU), I think casting actual actors who CAN sing works far, FAR better than dubbing some unrelated voice. In some cases, you have folks like Glenn Close, who has a fantastic, professional voice, and all is good. But I think Meryl Streep in MAMMA MIA! also worked terrifically--even though her pipes are not quite at a professional level. There's something about Streep's not-quite-perfect vocals that just absolutely makes MAMMA MIA!, well, sing. (And yes, I agree with you about Pierce Brosnin, though I thought he sort of worked in at least one song...SOS or the other one.) And Audrey Hepburn's voice in BREAKFAST AT TIFFANY'S is actually quite heartbreaking, though admittedly the "Moon River" song was written with her limited range in mind. The point is, we live in an era of "realism" in acting, so some degree of "realism" is absolutely required in musicals. This is not a bad thing--on the contrary, it creates all kinds of wonderful possibilities. Read my books! Explore "Brent's Brain" at http://www.brenthartinger.com no votes And I think we can ALL agreeSubmitted by
And I think we can ALL agree that Julie Andrews should have been cast in MY FAIR LADY, no? ;-)
Read my books! Explore "Brent's Brain" at http://www.brenthartinger.com no votes I've heardSubmitted by
Defft (1408 points) (292 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 15:53.I've heard the Audrey Hepburn recordings. They are far more effective than Nixon's during the first portion, where Eliza is a guttersnipe. However, in the second half where Eliza is supposed to be refined, Hepburn doesn't have the pipes to manage the score (or the characterization). It would've been far better to only use Nixon on the second half, but that's not what the producers chose. And I disagree about Julie Andrews. I'm sure it was wonderful onstage, but from what I can tell of the cast recording, her interpretation was far too stagey and over the top to work on film. Yeah, everyone start lobbing those rotten 'maters at me now. That's what a film director is forSubmitted by
RJ (3038 points) (650 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 20:53.Count me as another who felt Julie Andrews should have been cast in the film role. The producers obviously wanted Audrey Hepburn's looks for the film and didn't think Julie Andrews was a big enough name or photogenic enough for such a high profile film role, despite being the first choice of Rex Harrison (Henry Higgins) and lyricist Alan Jay Lerner. As for your comment that JA's interpretation was "too stagey", well, that's why the film has a director too. Stage productions are frequently more "over-the-top" than the equivalent film version because of the inherent differences of the media. I'm sure she could have adapted to the film role with ease. She certainly wasn't too shabby, or "too stagey" when singing in Mary Poppins and The Sound of Music. Ultimately, I doubt Julie Andrews was too upset at being passed over for the movie version of Eliza Doolittle. She was too busy filming Mary Poppins at the same time and winning the Best Actress Oscar for that role the following year. Audrey Hepburn wasn't even nominated. At the Golden Globes that same year, Andrews beat Hepburn for Best Motion Picture Actress in a Musical/Comedy.The next year, Andrews was nominated for another Oscar for her role as Maria in The Sound of Music but lost out to Julie Christie, though she won the Golden Globe again. I also love Marni Nixon's vocals in My Fair Lady, though the first time I saw the movie, I didn't know Audrey Hepburn's singing was being dubbed. I've heard Hepburn's own singing on two songs (they're included on the DVD) and they're actually quite good but unfortunately pale next to Nixon's and Andrew's vocals. Interestingly, according to IMDB, parts of Hepburn's own singing were used:
A couple more interesting casting factoids I saw on IMDB:
Colin and Keira are about the right ageSubmitted by
jarhead (10 points) (2 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 15:09.If one reads the play by George Bernard Shaw, he explicitly states that Higgins is a man of about forty, while Eliza is a painfully thin girl of "perhaps eighteen, perhaps twenty, certainly no older." If anything, she is too old to play the girl...
In any case...Submitted by
Bill S (1844 points) (373 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 15:51.A 47 year old man is not old enough to be the GRANDFATHER of a 23 year old. How many people do you know who became grandparents at the age of 24? I agree that it wasn't Marni's voice that was the problem, so much as the faulty dubbing, though on the DVD it appears to have been corrected. Isn't Andrew Gold (the guy who wrote "Thank You For Being A Friend") Marni Nixon's son? Audrey sang with her own voice in "Funny Face"Submitted by
David Ehrenstein (7805 points) (1725 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 15:48.whose score is a lot more challenging than "Moon River." Yes, actors who can actually sing should be used whenever possible. But don't diss Marni for a job well done. As for Meryl, I love her in this number from Postcards From the Edge -- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuq6ZH1B9Yk
Some Definiative Answers:Submitted by
David E is a Fraud! (315 points) (162 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 19:06.The topic of actors who cannot sing being cast in movie musicals for the sake of 'box office draw' has been pretty much settled on the theater message boards. A couple of definative answers that haven't been touched on yet: 1. Glenn Close should play Norma Desmond in the upcoming 'Sunset Boulevard' movie and not, not, not Barbara Streisand. (Even though Glenn Close is not a singer - she is musical, but falls in the same ranks as Meryl Streep regarding vocal quality and limited vocal range.) 2. Sweeney Todd was visually stunning, but a vocal train wreck. Many people who saw that film still don't know what a riveting score it is... 3. Actresses like Kelli O'Hara (currently the star of "South Pacific" at Lincoln Center) should be offered singing roles in movies before actresses like Keira Knightley. The score for a musical like 'My Fair Lady' is every bit as much a 'star' as any actor playing a role and deserves 'star treatment' for being such a classic. Besides - Julie Andrews, Barbara Streisand, Idina Menzel, Kristin Chenoweth, Jerry Orbach, Victor Garber, Steven Pasquale, etc... have all proven it's no 'big risk' to put an actor from the musical theater stage into television or the movies. In a movie like 'My Fair Lady', it would be less of a risk and make for a much better film. I'm pretty sick of hearing how 'brave' an actor is by 'taking a risk' with a singing role. Brave only in the sense that they risk the ridicule of being called out on the limits of their talent. It's egocentrism at the expense of ruining good music. The Emperor is wearing no clothes. These actors can't sing and are butchering some lovely scores.
-Sibelius "It's curtains for you, Dr. Horrible. Lacy, wafting curtains..." My Heart took Flight.Submitted by
retropian (125 points) (26 posts) on Wed, 2008-08-27 19:54.Eliza doesn't end up with Prof. Higgins in Pygmalion, she chooses Freddy. Perhaps in a remake they'll stick to the original ending. If so, then how old Prof Higgins is doesn't matter, the question is how hot is Freddy?
George Bernard Shaw wrote aSubmitted by
Insideguy (2495 points) (497 posts) on Thu, 2008-08-28 15:39.George Bernard Shaw wrote a follow up on what actually happened after the end of Pygmalion. She does indeed marry Freddy but he leaves her for an American heiress. Pickering sets her up in a flower shop of her own which fails because she is not a business woman Can we say curmudgeon, GBS? As to a remake with Keira it has possibilities, first and foremost would be to take it off a soundstage and less a stage play on screen. And what queen won't go mad for the gowns that with today's technical resources could easily surpass the legendary Cecil Beaton's Oscar winning fashions parade. On the subject of Higgins, Rex Harrison was 53 when he made the film version while Audrey Hepurn was 32. At the time (1961) Julie Andrews was 26. Keira is 23 and Rupert Everett will be 50 next May. Colin Firth will be 48 next month. I could see either of them as Pickering rather than Higgins. The ideal choice for Pickering, however, would be David Hyde Pierce, who has everything needed for the role. If they want a fine singer, I would say Hugh Jackman is the perfect choice for Higgins. But the truly perfect choice who could possibly sing/talk as Harrison did, would be Hugh Grant who turns 48 the day before Colin Firth. For a director I would choose Baz Luhrman for his great sense of style that would make the film uniquely different from George Cukor's adatation. Stephen Daldry of BILLY ELLIOT fame would be great too. But considering Cameron Mackintosh is producing Trevor Nunn might have the inside track on this one. Now that Emma Thompson has shown us that she is willing to play a woman of a certain age in BRIDESHEAD REVISITED she could easily assume the role of Higgin's mother, afetrall, she is writing the screenplay, Who knows maybe she can win a 4th and 5th Oscar if all goes well. The ideal actor to Play Lord Boxington (You don't mean to say she drank?) at the Ascot Races would be me since I played the part so well in high school and am now the perfect age to recreate that still stunning performance. Eww ego, wretch.
INSIDEGUY How about Doogie for Freddie?Submitted by
David Ehrenstein (7805 points) (1725 posts) on Thu, 2008-08-28 16:27.He could do "On the Street Where You Live" thrillingly.
"When you have eliminated the impossible..."Submitted by
afhickman (3751 points) (777 posts) on Fri, 2008-08-29 04:13.afhickman David, I hope you're joking. NPH is many things, but I think his latest foray into the field of music (Dr. Horrible's Horrible Voice, or whatever) proves he is no singer. Dominic Cooper, on the other hand, acquitted himself admirably in the otherwise tepid "Mama Mia" and should be in the running for Freddy. Ironically, it was Jeremy Brett (the BBC's Sherlock Holmes) who played him in the 1964 film. I say ironically because I've been thinking that, in a better world, another ex-Sherlock, Nicholas Rowe, would make a fine Henry Higgins. Then I'm reminded that Rupert Everett played Sherlock Holmes as well! I often wonder whether the characters of Holmes and Watson might have influenced Shaw in his depiction of Higgins and Pickering. They are quite similar! The handsome Mr. Rowe:
NPH no singer? You are soo wrong about thatSubmitted by
BobbyBaby (496 points) (115 posts) on Thu, 2008-09-04 10:51.Considering the fact the NPH has become one of the go guys to sing leading male roles in the Sondheim canon (starring in "Assassins" on Broadway, singing Anthony in the NY Philharmonic "Sweeney Todd" and singing the lead in the first recording of Sonheim's "The Frogs"), I would say that Mr. Harris has more then sufficient cred to be considered for a movie musical... certainly more than Mr. Cooper. And you should check out the YouTube clip of NMH and his HIMYM costar spontaneously breaking into a duet from Les Mis on the Megan Mullaly show... inspired and hilarious! How About.....Submitted by
Rich (1014 points) (233 posts) on Fri, 2008-08-29 21:55.41-year old John Barrowman as Higgins? He and Kiera..or whomever gets the part...would be "loverly". :)
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by
A: “Wisecrack,
Season 1, was launched in the first year of iTunes when this was a totally
unexpected platform of content distribution,” says Marc Leonard, Senior Vice
President, Multiplatform Programming at Logo (which owns AfterElton.com). “At
the time we weren’t producing multiple versions of shows; we were making shows
to play on the channel so they were edited for TV. Shortly after we
launched we grew quickly and realized that we’d be releasing shows on DVD,
iTunes, and now we even have a unique distribution partnership with Netflix.
With very few exceptions, all of our shows available on these platforms are now
completely unedited – Wisecrack,
Season 1, is a rare exception because it launched during a brief window before
alternate versions of shows became common practice.”






















Just you wait, 'enry 'iggins
afhickman
"The mountain has wings."
If anyone was ever born to play Henry Higgins, it's surely Rupert Everett. "Young" he may not be, but he certainly doesn't look like anyone's grandfather. And Rex Harrison proved you don't need to be a great singer to play Henry, just a great actor. The real question may be, who will play his long-time companion, Colonel Pickering!
Drake and Josh played
Drake and Josh played step-brothers on the teen sitcom in question, so the kisses you’re talking about were on the cheek.
Because I'm a dork, I would just like to point out that actually, at least one kiss was on the mouth. When Drake got Josh tickets to see Oprah. Not that that makes them less of step brothers, but you know. ;)
Brokeback Drake and Josh
youtube.com/watch?v=DMWoXl8z9aA
Sometimes kids shows are more gay than adult shows!
Henry Higgins isn't supposed
I'm not saying he has to be
Totally agree about Knightly's body mass, however.
Read my books! Explore "Brent's Brain" at http://www.brenthartinger.com no votes
So Rupert's out, Brent?
afhickman
"The mountain has wings."
It's really more of a Victorian cliche in this case. George Bernard Shaw never envisioned Henry and Eliza getting married; that was a Broadway sop to the romantics. Shaw has Henry setting Eliza up in a flower shop and blessing her marriage to Freddy in Pygmalion. She occasionally comes over to help him find his slippers (which are probably located right outside Colonel Pickering's door).
Rupert will turn 50 next year--are you saying he's too old for the part? My other suggestion was going to be Richard E. Grant (who has done the role on stage), but he's two years older than Rupert!