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Angry Puppy video blog 37: When good sci fi goes bad
In this week's Angry Puppy, Marc and Lee try to talk about Heroes and The Sarah Connor Chronicles, but end up in a discussion on when and what they can forgive in sci fi writing. Also in this episode, they review the gay horror short In the Closet and Milo Ventimiglia's gore-iffic Pathology (now on DVD). All this and more geeky goodness, right after the jump! Submitted by on Tue, 2008-10-14 15:57. |
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When good Vlogs go bad.
Heroes is an unwatchable mess - kind of like Dr. Who. Some shows require much more suspension of disbelief than others. So much suspension of disbelief you can't even call it science fiction. Dr. Who and Heroes make so much shit up as they go along that one cannot objectively call them science fiction. They have become pure FANTASY. And it is that which I am far more unforgiving of. I stopped watching "Heroes" after the First Season finale because the whole season ended up being all build-up and no pay-off - the writers really had no game plan; they were just pulling plot points out of their ass with no rhyme or reason. As the ratings by and large demonstrate, most viewers agree with me.
Terminator the Sarah Connor Chronicles is actually the best pure science fiction show on TV right now and I hope it isn't cancelled because the New Terminator 4 movie will probably boost its ratings for season 3. Even BSG has really fallen off the wagon in terms of the "rules" it established in seasons 1 and 2. Season 3 BSG was an unmitigated disaster - boring and they started to make ridiculous plot points that showed a hiliarious lack of scientific principles: the "biological" virus that could be transmitted wirelessly to other Cylons is the biggest offender. So far, Terminator SCC has been really interesting from a speculative fiction point of view and they haven't made any horrible errors. Although there are some inklings of a future episode of Terminator SCC where Cromartie (Garrett Delahunt), a Terminator, catches a "disease" - if it turns out to be biological then I will be very disappointed.
BTW, Hiro is incredibly annoying. I can't perceive the charm others seem to see in him.
I don't see the problem in wanting Sci-Fi to have a greater portion of Plausible speculative fiction about future directions of science.
IDW Publishing will have a Terminator Comic Book series next year (sadly they also publish Doctor Who reprints)
Simone Bianchi claims he will be the "regular" artist on "Astonishing X-Men" for 12 issues. I still don't believe that.
Star Trek is being ruined by JJ Abrams. He wants to make it more like Star Wars. HE ACTUALLY SAID THAT. Teaser Trailer is comin November 2008.
There was a story on www.comicbookresources.com on Friday where it describes an incident where "Dan Buckley" (it doesn't explicitly state him but he is heavily implied) cancelled a story in one of the X-books where gay characters are the protagonists. I believe the article is called "comic book urban legends".
Not that anyone should care but Joss Whedon's X-travesty "Astonishing X-Men" Hardcover Volume 2 is out on December 3rd 2008.
Sci Fi v. Fantasy Smackdown. Two genres enter, only one leaves
You're not alone in dropping Heroes. Sometimes I feel like we're the only ones who still watch, if only because it's fun to trash. And I think the people at io9 are going to kill off Hiro if Adam Monroe doesn't get to it first.
I agree that it's pretty much fantasy at this point. Perhaps paradoxically, that's partly why I'm so forgiving of the show. I don't really expect it to make sense any more. I do expect it to be fun with a healthy dose of eye candy. I think if you played a drinking game based on when certain characters are shirtless and oily, you'd get tipsy before the third commercials of most episodes.
TSCC, on the other hand, is pretty good sci fi this season, and I expect it to basically follow the laws of our universe (time travel aside). As I said in the vlog, except for a few poetic liberties (and the time travel - did I mention the time travel?), I don't find it that far outside of the realm of our possible futures. So, when they have weak plot elements like that totally unbelievable way they got Derek and John into the military school, I don't make as many allowances as I do when, say, Tracy on Heroes freezes a dude solid.
Re: "I don't see the problem in wanting Sci-Fi to have a greater portion of Plausible speculative fiction about future directions of science."
I completely agree. If it came across otherwise in the vlog, then we mis-spoke. I don't think of it as a zero-sum kind of thing: there's room in the world for both strict sci fi and out-there fantasy. We just have to decide what to spend our limited viewing hours on.
Or if you're me, you have to decide how much to ignore your dog and husband so you can squeeze in just one more episode of whatever show you want to review this week. ;D
theAngryPuppy.com
Sci-Fi! Pardon me!
Actually I agree with you about the continuum between what "You guys" call Sci-Fi ( and there was a time that I remember that anyone who called SF Sci-Fi would be castrated) buts let's all that blurry stuff fade. I think there was never a time where SF and fantasy didn't blend. What ! MZB's Darkover novels and Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land! (slightly homophobic as it was). To say nothing of "Darker Than You Think!"
So my point is do we need a war over the what is or is not in the SFantasy as I will coin it realms?
That whole what is sci fi thing
For me "sci fi" is a convenient catch-all for a lot of genres that I like; honestly I don't think about the term that much, I think more about what I like. And sometimes what I dont.
Oh Stranger In A Strange Land... that takes me back and I totally want to read it again but you're so right, and the slight homophobia stayed with me for years and kept me from coming back to that title and The Cat Who Walked Through Walls, which used to be my other Heinlein favorite!
The Sci-Fi shlump...
Le sigh... Is it too much to ask for shows like Farscape to be created?? I remember when I first started watching the series, and realizing why I'm so enamored with sci-fi and fantasy. Like you guys said, it wasn't for the believability of the show, but the wit and the intellegence that went into each episode.
As for Pathology, it was all right for the most part. I just wish there was much less female parts being exposed. I'm not saying I wanted more dead guy junk, just less girl junk...
Oh, and if at all worth mentioning: Any rpg lovers/Wii owners should know about Tales of Symphonia 2 coming out (or as I like to call it, "The first major validation for actually buying a Wii).
What?!
You mean you didn't rush out to get Cooking Mama or Wii Cheer? ;)
Thanks for the heads up on Tales of Symphonia 2. I've been looking for more Wii games.
Where is my Zelda? Or even that Kid Icarus I've heard rumors about?
On a semi-related note: Dead Space looks AWESOME.
theAngryPuppy.com
Anti-Heroes
Sooo many shows
I've wondered, if the days
I've wondered, if the days in NY maybe are a bit longer than they are around here - considering the amount of things you seem to watch and play and do and vlog during a week (and you also do work, don't you? )
I have yet to find a pattern for why I do or don't watch certain programmes. I'm unconsolable when I miss an episode of grey's anatomy - but actually I dislike (more or less) every single character in there and don't care for the plot. I've watched Hollyoaks for a few months simply because I fell in love with one character ( and a not very well written one on top of that)
I can't bring myself to watch more of Robin Hood even though they have one of the hottest guys ever to grace my screen in it - and Keith Allen as a hilariously over-the-top baddie. But I started to watch and enjoy Merlin, which has exactly the same show-concept as RH (sort of Robin Hood /Merlin-"Babiez" brought onto screen ). Usually I would say, Richard Armitage would win single-handedly over (an admittedly brilliant)Richard Wilson and that hobbit they've cast as Merlin.... still... *shrug*
I know I like shows, who don't take themselves too seriously. So Doctor Who and Torchwood (I don't think it's possible to enjoy that, if you take it seriously? ) also are near the top of my list. And Doctor Who still is the only show to give me an understandable explanation of how this whole time-travelling thing works ;-) !
I do watch Heroes (we are of course way behind your schedule) in a way that the tv is on when Heroes is on. I have to admit though, it usually fails to keep my attention for more than 10 minutes...
Timey wimey stuff
Yes - we totally other jobs! So for the rest, well let's just say we don't actually sleep that much.
Totally agree on the Robin Hood hot factor but other than that I can't find another reason to watch the show. Not that it's bad, just that it's not hooking me for any other reason. SOme of you are going to hate me for this but I always felt the same way about Farscape. GREAT eye candy but I just couldn't get into the series.
I love that the Doctor recently offered an explanation of time travel that's not only brilliant, but also somewhat accounts for the seeming inconsistencies in the show; it went something like this, "People think of time as a sort of straight line, but when you look at it from a non-linear, non-subjective point of view, it's more of a great big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff." Hooray!
timey wimey!
I love that the Doctor recently offered an explanation of time travel that's not only brilliant, but also somewhat accounts for the seeming inconsistencies in the show; it went something like this, "People think of time as a sort of straight line, but when you look at it from a non-linear, non-subjective point of view, it's more of a great big ball of wibbly-wobbly, timey-wimey... stuff." Hooray!
well, that is of course what I meant. I showed this explanation to my cousin who had on several occasions (unsuccessfully) tried to explain to me all the time-travelling in other shows like star trek or bab 5 in a more scientific, logic kind of way... he also was impressed by its convincing simplicity ;-)
Salad
I was thinking about the same thing as I was watching the last episode.
Heroes is like a salad now, they toss it from episode to episode and wait to see where the pieces fall. There is no real direction or goal yet, aside from saving the world from destruction, of course (groaning very loudly). Such a tired concept for this show.
Also, the is no semblance of the characters anymore. Must they all go bad to see which ones come back to the good side? The ones who should have changed, they left the same...Maya, Hiro, Ando. BTW, Hiros naïveté is annoying at this point. Really? No growth, no change. Where is the badass Hiro we saw in the first season for example. That transition would have been more interesting.
Im still watching to see where they take it.
Fringe I am liking. Simpler and probably more entertaining. Maybe because they are beginning to weave the web. I was cautious about this one, but its getting better. Joshua Jackson is always nice.
Oh, and what do you guys think of the V reboot sans Kenneth Johnson?
Interesting blog. Love Kodos.
I'll have a Heroes salad, hold the Mohinder
Hadn't thought of it that way - but yes, it is kind of like a salad. A very messy salad. Made out of pieces of too many other salads.
Oh we're totally enjoying Fringe; I realize that show's not resonating with everyone and my biggest criticism remains that they take too long to get to important character and story development. But I do like where they're going and am enjoying the ride.
I was a huge fan of the original V series and a somewhat less huge fan of the subsequent outing. This is actually one of the few franchises I haven't revisited ad nauseum (but always meant to). I think I'd need to go back and see it again today to gauge what it was that appealed to me and how much of it was Johnson versus other elements.
Kodos loves you too! Well... mostly because he now assumes that everyone he meets is going to feed him something. puppies...
Ah, Yes, V...
Talk about a show replete with gay subtext. I'm fairly certain that at least some of it was deliberate. Diana and the female reporter, cute blond Visitor and the human collaborator. Of course, the deliberate subtext in both of those cases was tied up with the Nazi subtext and the whole "Nazis were gay" thing that certain people love to revisit. Still, it's about as good as 80s SF got.
Then there was whatsisname - Beastmaster - and Martin, the NICE cute blond Visitor. I'm not sure that one was deliberate though.
V Re-Boot Could Be Interesting.
After reading PARTS of V: THE SECOND GENERATION (I must admit I couldn't make it through the entire novel), I think ABC and WARNER have chosen wisely not to include Mr. Johnson.
I think a TV series can't just live on 'I'm still so bitter about THE FINAL BATTLE after a quarter century has passed' alone.
But if any Sci-Fi series from the 80s ever deserved to be resurrected, it's probably 'V'. Just too bad that most kids will probably think it's actually a rip-off of INDEPENDENCE DAY *LOL*
--
The Gays Of Daytime
V Original Series Creator Not Happy about Re-boot
In case you didn't see it, there's an io9 article on Johnson's reaction to the re-boot.
I missed V the first time around, but I watched on Joost before they had their big (and awful) overhaul to a Flash-based site.
I would make the excuse that I was too young for it (I was about 7 or 8), but somehow I managed to see things like Poltergeist in that same time period. Maybe my sci fi gene hadn't kicked in yet?
theAngryPuppy.com
Huh
I think it's maybe just a BIT much for him to act like he's the Hulk's creator, and that he should be involved in all future Hulk revivals. It also looks like the only post-Alien Nation work he's done was the flop comic book adaptation Steel and a string of never-heard-ofs, while new series producer Scott Peters is the mind behind the 4400, and a director on things like Jericho and TSCC. I can see why the industry might be leaning towards his take.
I do think it's sad when a creator gets shut out of his own creation. But there are times it's understandable.
V Re-Boot Could Be Interesting.
After reading PARTS of V: THE SECOND GENERATION (I must admit I couldn't make it through the entire novel), I think ABC and WARNER have chosen wisely not to include Mr. Johnson.
I think a TV series can't just live on 'I'm still so bitter about THE FINAL BATTLE after a quarter century has passed' alone.
But if any Sci-Fi series from the 80s ever deserved to be resurrected, it's probably 'V'. Just too bad that most kids will probably think it's actually a rip-off of INDEPENDENCE DAY *LOL*
--
The Gays Of Daytime
DoorQ
Door Q / Dork Q / Dork You
You've Chosen a Rather Late Hour to Pay Me a Visit
Oh, hello, Marc. Fancy meeting you here.
I like that it's not "either" but "both". My tongue is having trouble with that, but I won't forget the URL!
theAngryPuppy.com
All Part of My Evil Plan
Just as long as you are talking 'bout us, Lee. Just as long as you are talking about us.
Thanks for the shout-out.
IN THE CLOSET will go live in our theater on Halloween. There's other stuff there now that should tide people over until then!
www.doorQ.com.
I never really got into
I never really got into Heroes, (and I can't start now, because I still don't have a TV, and have to severely limit what I can watch, because my two housemates don't trust each other enough to get combined internet, so I only get 10GB of data a month.) And I have, I confess, never seen a single Terminator film.
I'm pretty lax on drawing the line for suspension of disbelief. If I enjoy something, I'm willing to cut it almost any slack in that department. In fact, the better something is, the more irritated I am by inconsistencies. I was way more irritated by that stupid, single-episode digression into Sagitarrions being anti-Medicine, and hated by everyone in BSG (Worst Episode Ever. EVEN WORSE THEN BLACK MARKET, WHICH WAS PRETTY F'ING BAD) then I am by much bigger digressions in other shows. Though I do hate it when something is built entirely on a premise that requires suspension of disbelief right from the offset.
You guys have never heard of Rechargable Batteries?
I don't understand why Fox would cancel TSCC with the new Movies coming out. Surely it would make more sense to put the show on hiatus till then or something if the ratings aren't good enough at the moment.
One more thing to plug in?
Rechargeable batteries? One more thing to plug in? :D You should see the cords and outlets hidden behind the TV.
We have the USB chargers for the Xbox controllers. You just leave them attached to the console for a little while. One charge gets Marc through The Force Unleashed two times!
TSSC: And it's just getting good. I feel like that WGA strike is still hurting TV viewership a little. We all found better things to do while nothing was on, and a lot of us never came back.
Granted, some series are losing viewers for other reasons (lazy writing, the too-oft invoked shark jumping, etc.).
Oh, and I love your profile image. :D
theAngryPuppy.com
Heroes, Fringe
I love heroes! even with the plotholes. Saving the world is the heroes schtik and unfortunately seeing, being or painting the future tends to be required for this... I kinda liked peter's dropped girlfriend but oh well. I'm still thinking we don't know enough about heroes to judge it just yet (FYI alost any comic book like thing is Fantasy. geez, change x-men to mages and you've got yourself a standard fantasy (Iceman!)).
Fringe. I donno about that one. I saw one episode where there was this fast aging person who aged from conception to death (old age) in 5 hours. The guy had to eat pituitary glands to survive! That is just butchering science (my beloved...). Does it get better than that episode?
TSCC - is that the one with heroes flunky Thomas Dekker?
Fringe / Re-Thinking TSCC's Future
I usually lump horror in with sci fi/fantasy as well, but that drives a lot of sci fi purists mad. I'm struggling to come up with an umbrella term for the stuff we cover, but until I think of one, we'll keep "and stuff we like" tacked onto the end of our list of topics. :)
Fringe
The episodes have gotten better than the one you describe, but this week's was a little weak. I'm enjoying the series overall, though if you're a die-hard science purist, you might be put off by the more, um, "fringey" parts of Fringe.. You can read my recap of the latest episode [WITH SPOILERS] here.
TSCC (Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles)
Yeah, that's the one. I hated last season until I re-watched all the episodes this summer to prep for season 2. I'm really getting into it, but as I've said (probably ad nauseum at this point), John Connor is my least favorite aspect. Dekker's fine (this season). I just don't like the character or care about teen drama.
I still think it would be interesting if they killed him off, because that would muck up the whole pre-determined future. But what fun it would be to show the consequences of that!
theAngryPuppy.com
What To Call "Our" Shows
Bugcrush on Logo
Since you guys are into horror as well as sci-fi, do you want to pimp Bugcrush? I had read good reviews of the festival run and I was just about to netflix it (it's in one of those gay-shorts compilations) when I saw that Logo had just put it on line for free.
It is a low-key gay teen romance that turns into a ... well, bugs are involved. Unfortunately the sex and the horror happen at the same time, which I understand is not how Lee likes it.
Say no to bugs, kids!
No, not "distant gay traces" -- it's distingué traces!
Sex and horror at the same time
Heroes is not That bad
I went off heroes on the first season as the titles at the beginning seemed to go on till half way through the show and the show was very short, but now that I rent and watch 2 or 3 in a row it really seems ok and moves along at a nice pace. It’s a lot more believable than Dr.Who which at times really shows its kid’s show roots.
The big thing I hate is the awful quality of the paintings in the show, the characters keep going wow at really , really awful pictures . Now that takes a suspension in judgement.
The homophobia in the Heinlein’s novel stayed with me long after I’d finished the book and put me off him for life, it’s like reading Proust after a while you think why am I reading this internalized homophobic s**t.
Bit gutted dot hear about the cutting of “the Sarah Connor Chronicles” another good show gone. L