Cyndi Lauper helps Luke and Noah celebrate Gay Pride with a special visit to "As the World Turns"

The ratings drop is a combo of things from terrible storylines to stupid couplings to the loss of veteran actors to EP Chris Goutass treating the soap like his own personal crapper.  I also don't watch the show b/c of never seeing Henry and Vienna...and seeing wayyyyyyyyyyyy to much of Katie and Brad...and being so over needy Carly...and never seeing Lucinda have a storyline of her own...and, etc.  

This idea of people seeing what they want to see...duh...this is a soap opera.  That's the point.  That's why you had people rooting for Jack and Carly and people who rooted for Jack and Katie.  That why you had people rejoicing when Holden and Lily decided to split up and threatening to bomb the buildings if they divorced.  That's why you have people who embrace major change on soaps and those who want their supercouples together no matter what, even if it's boring.

And I'm with you in seeing what I see...two guys who are trying to convince the audience that they're boyfriends and getting zero help from the script.  I think it'd be a lot easier for us to buy them as a couple if they actually had a storyline that brought them together as a couple (and this one sure as hell ain't done that) and didn't have such asinine plots and dialogue and if their characters weren't so one dimensional and just plain annoying.  You can literally see both Van and Jake rolling their eyes @ what they have to say and what their characters are doing.  If the actors don't believe it, we won't either.  All you need to do is go back to the summer and see that they actually had a great story which helped them have decent chemistry which helped everyone to believe that this could be a couple.  Kind of goes hand in hand.  

Spoiled by Ollian here too.  It's like eating lobster and then settling for freezer-burned fishsticks.  When you've seen it done better (and I mean wayyyyyyyyyyy better) how can you go back and just settle?    

Maxine - I think you hit the nail on the head about why the ratings are dropping, i.e., bad storylines, bad personnel moves, focusing on boring characters, etc. But we're just speculating, of course. One thing I've learned in my job in data analysis is that it's not rare for the ultimate cause of an observed effect to be something you never expected.

As to Luke and Noah, overall I think they do have chemistry, especially from Luke's end. Jake just isn't as good an actor as Van. But I've noticed over the past two years that by far the WORST shows are those filmed outside, as this NY storyline has been filmed. I can only assume they have different directors for outside because those scenes are always so bad. The summer camp scenes from two summers ago were literally the worst network fiction scenes I've ever seen in my life.

I still am not over the fact that fans were promised that luke and noah would be treated equally like any other couple on the show. yeah, maybe i should get over it....but i probably won't for now...which brings me to another thing...since they 'lied' about them being treated as equals....fans had to speak the hell up and after media attention...and after...what....6 months of jack between them except longing looks and stupid hugs...after alll that, just *NOW* we are starting to see some sort of freaking progress with Luke and Noah...that to me...is very sad.

I am sure they mean well with the gay pride stuff....and maybe it'll be a good episode...but it's gonna take more than a gay pride episode to convince me that "yeah, luke and noah are getting back on the tracks..."

You do have my permission to put that on a t-shirt...as long as I get one.  And make it bulletproof!

I'm not into people who play both sides of the fence.  You can't cater to bigots and then turn around and ask a community to support your show.

Based on every interview I've ever seen with Chris Goutman and Barbara Bloom, the recent ovations have nothing to do with trying to restablish good will.  But...perhaps Van and Jake can finally start getting storylines that don't suck.   

I laughed the entire way through this post.  You really think highly of yourself don't you?  So yeah, we get it...you're an analyst.  You can stop including that in every single one of your posts because it doesn't make you seem any smarter.  It just makes you seem full of it.  And BTW...as an analyst, I'm sure you know that numbers and situations can be made to read a number of different ways and they can be presented in a number of different ways to say a number of different things and they can be interpreted in a number of different ways (I was using a rhetorical device there).  I should know because I work in Investment Banking and my job is to take those numbers that the analysts have so diligently crunched and spin it the way the associates and bankers want me to spin it.  Being an analyst does not make you objective...it just means that you can manipulate the data. 

And there was/is nothing amounting to rage in my response to you and it's ridiculous to think that you could induce that kind of emotion from me to begin with.  The only emotion I feel is sympathy.  I feel sorry for you in that this storyline is so personal for you that you have to attack others and then qualify your decision to attack by making yourself seem smarter than you really are.  It’s somewhat clever to try and make it seem like this is only my opinion but it’s well documented on this site and others that this is just not the case.   

And you don't want to sound snarky but you do.  In all of your posts.  Have you ever wondered why no one bothers to engage you in conversation?  Oh yeah, it must be all of us idiots and it must have absolutely nothing to do with you because you're only trying to explore the issues and as an analyst...blah, blah.  Uh...no.  I may use a lot of ghetto words like "ass" and "shit" and "dimwit" but it gets my point across w/out having to run to a thesaurus to look up big words so that I can seem impressive.  I get right to the point.  And people respond to that, as you can see even in this little forum.  No one has ever ignored me because of that but I notice they ignore you or tell you to get bent.  So I won't be changing my posting style anytime soon. 

And every one of those words (shit, dimwit, asshole, dumbass) were used to describe a show, a situation, a character, etc., not someone else.  Unlike you, if I want to attack someone personally, I'll just do it.  I won't make excuses for my unintelligent behavior by loading up my post with absurd declarations of "rhetorical device."  BTW...I'm quite familiar with rhetorical devices and you used the phrase wrong.  Rhetorical devices are not used to make a certain point...they're used to evoke emotional responses and they should be central to what's been written, i.e., an alliteration, diction, hyperbole, metaphor, etc.  In other words, it's a stylistic device.  So the next time you want to be cowardly and not own up to your own post full of rage and personal attacks and start throwing words around to try and cover your backtrack, at least know what the word(s) actually mean.

And if self-victimization is making sure that people, businesses, television shows, films, and the like are called out on their homophobia, I guess I'm a victim.  And I guess all those folks at vh.net who raised a stink about the lack of affection, and the folks here at AE who started a kissing clock and asked for some clarification on what the hell they were doing over there, and the folks at SOD who asked CBS executives what the hell was going on are victimizing too.  I suppose I could run around throwing flowers and hoping that people will find me equal but every notable person in history who has fought discrimination refused to just let bygones be bygones.  I mean Jesus...I guess Rosa Parks should've just said "I'm black and that's great.  I'm equal to everyone else and I'll just assume that everyone will treat me that way.  It's not worth my time to look for the smallest slight and see things that aren't there.  I guess this person asking me to move to the back of the bus isn't that big of a deal; after all, that's the way things are so I should just accept them and be my happy, black self." 

And I guess we can assume that ATWT not having Luke and Noah do anything (barely even touching) for several months was merely a storytelling device and not homophobia or catering to bigots who didn't want these two to even be in the same room together.  I guess Barbara Bloom was right "it's great storytelling!"  I suppose we should let them off the hook because the entire show sucks.  Your argument that every couple is being treated the way that Luke and Noah are and that it’s partly due to it being a crappy show is so mystifying and untrue I'm kind of shocked that you would write that...well, not really.  Unfortunately, that argument holds no water because even the most slow burning of couples on that show, and no one qualifies for that right now (I can really only dive into the archives), have/had a sense of intimacy and romance (Lily and Holden back in the day being the two that jump to mind) and were allowed to touch and be intimate. 

And there is NOT ONE couple on this show right now that compares to the complete lack of physicality that were imposed on Luke and Noah (name one…someone name one couple…I have yet to see anyone who holds this same weak theory actually put someone up that proves that) so your theory that this applies to all other characters is just wrong.  I have stated many times that the Luke/Noah component is just one reason the ratings are down and have been going down (when they were rising) for quite some time so again, try and check some things before you post what you think are my opinions.  The strike did not help this.  But to say that there hasn’t been a response to the perceived notion that this is homophobic is irresponsible.  The executives at P&G, ATWT, and CBS were blatantly asked “what the hell is going on?”  By SOD, by the folks here at AfterElton, by the fans, by the blogs, by the message boards.  So I guess we must all be self-victimizers if we all saw it, called it what it was, and asked about it.  Your argument that it was about crappy writing and that all characters and couples on this show are treated like this is just NOT true so what is it?  If it’s not that, which is obviously isn’t, what is it?  It’s just great storytelling?  We all must be blind?  We’re not analysts so we can’t see what it really is? 

And you’re trying to combine what is viewed by many as two separate issues 1) storyline and 2) intimacy.  The story logically can’t keep them from having intimate moments so, again, it’s a fallacy to try and lump the two together when the post is specifically talking about the lack of intimacy and then talks separately about the shitty storyline.  Katie and Brad were humping in an elevator and Henry and Vienna were humping in a church.  Both storylines sucked (and still do) but at least they were able to be intimate, although not necessarily intimate in a romantic way.  The fact that neither character really have much chemistry with each other anymore (which is not just my opinion but lots and lots and lots of other people’s opinions too…please look at the VL thread…or hell, just look @ this one) is both because of the lack of intimacy (which was not dictated by the storyline) and because of the ridiculous storyline.  Again, if the actors don’t believe it, we won’t either.

And BTW...I've been using a rhetorical device throughout this entire post.  I've been using a stylistic device of repeating the word "and" at the beginning of each paragraph.  Similar to an anaphora which is Greek for "carrying back."  It's the repetition of a word or phrase at the beginning of a successive phrase, clause, or line.

So, put up or shut up.  Name ONE couple that is/was being treated the same way that Luke and Noah have.  One.  Just one.  And be careful.  I've watched this show my entire life (off and on) so I'll know when you're talking through your ass.  But, I guess I've gotten pretty good at that huh?          

Gracias!

And BTW...to those who are now wondering about the comparisons of VL and HO to ATWT...of course there are pullaways (JP pulling away from Father Kieron and vice versa), of course there is close mouthed kissing (one of the hottest being Christian's pecks of Ollie in the kitchen...take a note that's how close-mouthed kissing is done), and of course there is drama about who is going to be with whom, who needs to come out, etc.  The point was entirely missed if this is the comeback to my original argument.

HO and VL have done the SOAP pullaway, the pecking, the drama, the secrecy, etc. the exact way that a SOAP should do it!  But it's moving the story (Father Kieron and Craig and JP pulling away @ various moments b/c 1) Craig was married and 2) FK is a priest), not stopping a couple from being intimate because of a bunch of loons sending e-mails with lots of grammatical errors asking about the "g_ys."  The restrictions on Luke and Noah were done not because it's a storytelling device but because of fear.  HUGE difference between VL/HO and ATWT.  TWO...TOTALLY...SEPARATE...THINGS. 

I'm not asking for ATWT to have Luke and Noah locked in a room making out and, again, I see the point was missed.  In fact, I'd hate that!  What I want is for them to look @ other soaps that do the SOAP thing right and then do it right themselves.  Why do we need to let them off the hook b/c this couple is gay (sort of and just recently)????  Why????  Look at OLTL, look at Y&R, look at GH!  They've all done young adult romance and they've done it way better. 

This is not a gay issue.  This is a human issue.  The show was on the right track last summer.  The secrecy, the pulling away, the tension, the smoldering looks...that's all a part of SOAPS and it's expected.  But they have completely taken those aspects of storytelling device and turned it into an excuse (Barbara Bloom "it's great storytelling") not to show Luke and Noah as ANY OTHER COUPLE ON THIS SHOW.   

Don't compare apples to basketballs.