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"Forbidden Love" video clip update: Bleeding Love
Alright, this is a tough one. On the one hand, drama is good. On the other hand, my suspicions yesterday about Olli getting the fuzzy end of the lollipop yet again come true in today's ep. Maybe it wouldn't be so glaring of a stumble if the show weren't so rock-solid otherwise in how they handled Christian and Olli's relationship. But for me this is more than a stumble, it's a full-on faceplant. Oh so it was that kind of party... We pick up where we left off, with Christian luxuriating in a warm bath drinking beer as his defenseless boyfriend gets the crap kicked out of him downstairs by Christian's nemesis, Diet Dolph. Okay, fine. The guy's evil, and Olli may be an easier target since he doesn't have boxing skills. I can deal with that. Sorry, dude ... McDreamy was taken. But here's where things really slide for me. Not only is Olli's reaction to the whole situation alarmingly passive (he won't even tell Dr. McSchnitzel what happened), but after a brief bout of guilt Christian brushes the whole thing off like it's no big deal. Really? They may be setting up for some big twist here, but wouldn't the Christian that we know and love be halfway to Axel's cyborg chamber with a bazooka right about now? (With Olli carrying the ammo, of course.) And Olli's final lines really kind of seal the deal. Please, VL ... don't leave us this way! I guess the Toaster Strudel are much bigger in Germany... You can see today's clip after the break, and thanks to Nanna and the Gays of Daytime for the translations. Submitted by on Wed, 2008-08-06 11:25. |
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Christian would have been beaten as well
You know, in the clip Christian acknowledges that he would probably have been beaten up just as badly as Olli. Gregor makes some comment like "If you had been there, etc..." but Christian says that Axel had a nightstick, so he wouldn't have had a chance either.
My point being that Christian recognizes that Olli is not "weak" but was taken by surprise by Axel. I don't get the feeling that Christian thinks of Olli as the "woman" of the relationship. I also think that Christian's laid-back attitude means that he is plotting Axel's comeuppance.
By the way, the doctor was so cute! I don't remember seeing him before.
Christian
I agree
I don't think that Christian considers Olli to be the "woman", but I think that the writers do. Olli is consistently put in a passive position and in the case of this plot device it's a bit much, for me. Again, this could all be setup, just putting it out there for discussion.
And I agree about the doctor. Hubba hubba!
but I think that the
but I think that the writers do
I don't really agree because IMO it doesn't really fit with the writers track record so far in either their gay or their lesbian relationships. That said Jo Weil talked about how Olli always got stuck in the position of everybody's caretaker, everybody's friend who was always so damn unterstanding of everybody's problems and that's a shame that not much has changed for him in all those years (respectively that he fell back into old patterns rather quicky). His take on it was that he guesses that every character fullfills a specific function and that happens to be Olli's and that is his cross to bear.
In this particular case it seemed to me that Olli's reaction was largely injury related. I was more bothered that Christian seemed rather ball-less for his normal personality (even if it was guilt tinged or dominated by "shouldn't get arrested and thrown in jail again" rational thought), seems that Olli's attitude is becoming contagious.
And I agree about the doctor. Hubba hubba!
The doctor is sort of infamous for his (albeit straight) love scenes on the show from back when he still had his shaggy hippie hair and was doing his father's wife (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QUHu99CX0uM) Oh German tv, how much do I love thee and thy occasional ass shots.
Olli
Well, the writers may be writing Olli as passive, but at least they are being consistent. Olli has always been passive, letting thing just sort of happen to him, and putting up with a lot of crap. I think even when he was with Tim he was pretty passive.
Jo has acutally mentioned in some interview that the biggest difference between Olli and himself is that Olli puts up with a lot of crap and just takes it without pushing back. Although there was that scene where Axel first started harassing them that Olli was ready to throw down with Axel and Christian had to hold him back.
Now that I think of it, Luke is super-passive as well. The moral center, yes, but a big doormat too. Maybe that's why the "new" gay cliche is the military/tough guy gay.
As for Olli's ambitions; in a much earlier episode where they discussed Christian going to Sports University, Christian asked Olli what his "big dream" was and Olli admitted then that he's never had one.
I think an interesting development would be if Christian helped Olli to think about himself more and to get a "big dream" outside of finding love.
www.thebittersuite.blogspot.com
But does it really count of
But does it really count of Christian makes him get a dream? I actually think it's okay for somebody to not have a great life ambition (and IMO I never felt that Olli's life ambition was to find love, just to have a happy life, whether love is part of it or not). But if he has to get one, I would rather have him develop one on his own.
But generally I see it like religion, you don't have to pick a god (a dream), you should also have to right to not pick (atheism) and it shouldn't be considered an inferior choice because of that.
That sad, I wouldn't mind if that provided future conflict and even temporary breakup, if either Olli got fed up or Christian got fed up with Olli because of this aimlessness. (incidentally that was one of the factors why Olli and Tom grew apart, Olli feeling like Tom was pressuring him too much and/or looking down on him because Olli was such an aimless student and eventually decided against finishing his studies; it wasn't the reason they broke up, but it probably was the reason why Olli started looking around for other guys and eventually dumped Tom because he had seen somebody else he liked)
you're a gem lolaruns!
Interestingly back then Olli
Interestingly back then Olli really resented it when Tom (who was a freshly finished med student/new doctor) would show him off to his collegues and the his friends started teasing him about becoming a "doctor's wife" after Tom proposed to him.
IMO Olli was a very perky boyfriend even back then but with a somewhat immature streak (tantrums, enjoying torturing Tom by flirting with girls which Tom absolutely hated, prefering to hang out with friends to studying).
And of course there was the slightly questionable situation of him revenge cheating on Tom with a woman and then taking Tom back with the explanation that they were "even" now.
Uncomfortable
To be honest this clip made me uncomfortable. Ollis passivity through this ordeal and his martyr like attitude really bugged me. And I didnt like Christians dettachment either, he looked like he was in the hospital picking up cold medication.
I get the sacrifice for your BF idea, but Olli has been overdoing it. That line he said about being worth that he got beat up so that Chrissie could have his moment (sporting and life affirming), did not seat well with me. I get the sentiment behind it, but it hints of an attitude that I dont like to see on anyone, much less a character that is representing us.
Thanks for using "hubba,
I'm with you, Virge & Brian
Re women or man in the relationship
Weak = defenseless
McSchnitzel
That's Leonard. He might not be McDreamy, but he's the guy Gregor's wife Sarah cheated on him with.
If I had Gregor at home, I wouldn't be sniffing around the Doc, but that's me.
www.thebittersuite.blogspot.com
ollian reactions
my take on the whole sitch was that christian was much more worried about olli's well-being and making sure he was okay than he was about getting revenge on axel at first. as you see in the scene with gregor in no limits, the anger and guilt begins to show once olli is home and okay. in the last scene, i think each guy is (maybe misguidedly) trying to put on a brave face for the other.
plus, remember that christian's been to jail twice. going out there and beating axel up, no matter how much he sucks, is a bad idea if christian wants to be anywhere near olli in the future. :(
as for why olli didn't kick axel right in the junk when he had a open shot -- as jerri blank once said, "i guess we'll never know."
Hah! I was waiting/hoping
Me too
When I watched it, the first thing out of my mouth was "kick him in the nuts!"
www.thebittersuite.blogspot.com
Christian's reaction wasn't dramatic enough
When Christian found Olli lying there bloody I thought I would see more emotion and upset. But then cut to the hospital and Christian is kidding about how Olli looks and you can definitely see that Olli is in shock or tranquilized, but all he wants to do is go home. It's obvious that Olli doesn't want to name Axel because he thinks that Axel will come after Christian, which he said he would anyway. So that bothered me
But then back at NO LIMITS...we see Gregor reporting the incident to the police and Christian getting angry and blaming himself for what happened. That seemed like a better reaction and was a better written scene...especially with Olli walking in and overhearing the conversation.
I just wish that Christian had come down looking for Olli when Axel was beating up on him...It would have been nice to see Christian take down Axel and save Olli. But alas...they didn't choose that scenario.
The last scene was sweet. It's really clear that they really do love each other.
Christian's initial reaction
If you watch the scenes again, you'll realize there's a significant time gap between Christian finding Olli on the floor in No Limits to Olli coming out of the doctor's examining room. It almost seems like there was an extra scene that was edited out for lack of time. Christian had to change from his bathrobe to street clothes again and Olli had to be transported to the hospital, either by car or ambulance. There would have been plenty of time during that period for Christian to be emotional and upset. He would have calmed down somewhat by the time the doctor finished checking out Olli.
Brian, you also have to remember that in Verbotene Liebe, they'll often take several episodes to cover events that in real time would normally occur in the space of hours.
Glad, they didn't
Well, then I would agree with Brian's remark on the previous episode 100%, because that would have been the conventional "damsel in distress" storyline.
great title Brian!
i LMAO when i read "bleeding love" as the banner for this episode. i am so mean.... anyway, the first (of many) time i watched the ep i also thought that Christian was too non chalant about his man getting beat up. but -- can he really go balistic and go after axel when he puts all the blame for the incident onto himself? he feels sooo guilty for what has happened... he was blaming himself... so i kinda understand his emotions (or the lack thereof). he wants to kill axel, yes... but he knows (or believes) that it is all his fault.... and i am also kinda thankful that they didn't go melodramatic on us with this ep - the emotion was just right given what both are feeling right now.
i think the last song (when christian kissed Olli on the bed) said it clearly... where both men are coming from... no axel, no friends... nobody but just the two of them- here's the full lyrics:
"Today is gonna be the day
That they're gonna throw it back to you
By now you should've somehow
Realized what you gotta do
I don't believe that anybody
Feels the way I do about you now
Backbeat the word was on the street
That the fire in your heart is out
I'm sure you've heard it all before
But you never really had a doubt
I don't believe that anybody feels
The way I do about you now
And all the roads we have to walk along are winding
And all the lights that lead us there are blinding
There are many things that I would
Like to say to you
I don't know how
Because maybe
You're gonna be the one who saves me ?
And after all
You're my wonderwall."
Wonderwall
I have Wonderwall (Oasis?) but the Ryan Adams version. I've put it on a Mixed CD for friends. I know, I love that song.
I can read the sub titles now, I don't know who to thank for that. I really like this show. There is no need to compare it.
I like how the emotions are played out, one at a time. I think that Christian will have his moment for angry revenge. Axel? Somebody needs to slap that bitch.
IMO it's boring when soap
IMO it's boring when soap characters always react so sanely and always do the right thing: That's why I usually prefer rooting for the vixens and villains. I know many soaps understand themselves as a fight of good vs. evil, but you can respect the good characters only for so long when their oh so moral behavior causes them to fall into one trap after another set by the evil characters (currently very painfully obvious on VL with the character of Tanja. Where it is particularly insulting because she is pitted against a former villain (Ansgar) who has been "reformed by love" and seems to have inherited the typical good guy stupidity and ineffectiveness. It's just grating to watch and I generally like Tanja.
But even a fun villain like Tanja becomes boring when the good characters just let her pummel them because they are too good and moral to do anything against her.
That's the point!
I completely agree with you markie!
People forget, that Christian blames himself and of course (being Christian:-) doesn't know how to deal with this feeling at all.
That's why he is behaving so insecure at the water dispenser in the hospital instead of being angry (at Axel) and/or worried (about Oli).
That's why he is making jokes about Oli's injured looks instead of saying something compassionate.
He is only able to handle the "outside" of this situation and to take care of his partner this way, like "Would it be safer if he stayed in the hospital / Does he need painkillers?"
Like later in the bedroom scene. He offers to cook something for Oli (which makes Oli laugh :-). Christian isn't able to talk to Oli about his guilty feelings on his own initiative. He is trying to make up for what has happened to his partner though. If Oli hadn't overheared his conversation with Gregor he wouldn't know about Christian's guilty feelings and being Oli he tries to heal them, which I found the right way to do.
Christian is Christian and Oli is Oli. And both are perfectly in character in this ep.
People who expect a more dramatic reaction from Christian haven't IMO understood his actual feelings and personality and expect a reaction from him that Oli would deliver.
Axel's a Classic Cowardly Basher
Notice that Axel waited until Christian had left Olli alone. He wasn't brave enough, even with his baton, to go into No Limits and attack both Christian and Olli, even though we know he was watching them through the window. Also remember that when Axel came to confront Christian with accusations of being gay many episodes back he brought two other boxing goons with him.
Axel is being clearly depicted here as a cowardly basher (as most bashers are). Olli was the obvious victim because, especially having just lost a boxing match to Christian, Axel probably wasn't certain of his chances against Olli and Christian even with a weapon. So instead he waited and then attacked when Olli, the less dangerous of the two, was conveniently alone.
The part that bugs the Hell out of me is Olli's refusal to bring in the cops. Axel is still running loose and is still a threat to him and Christian, and potentially Gregor and the girls as well. But Olli's acting like he has Battered Wife Syndrome and doesn't want to talk about it, which is incredibly stupid.
It's also incongruous, because Olli is worried about Christian blaming himself for the attack, but apparently not worried about Christian getting clubbed over the head from behind with a metal baton (which is likely how Axel would try to handle Christian).
Olli
I think Olli not wanting to say anything to the doctor was within character. I also believe that it is true to form of how some people act after they are bashed.
Olli was and is worried about Christian because he knew something bad was going to happen after seeing Axel's disgust in the last episode. Christian thought things were going to blow over but now he knows that his actions just provoked Axel. Also Gregor looks like he is going to be sure that Axel pays for what he has done.
Yeah but...
The reason it's weird is that Axel is still out there running loose, and he specifically threatened to go after Christian.
In this episode we see that Olli is worried that Christian might blame himself for the bashing. Yet mysteriously he's not worried that Christian might get attacked while running out for groceries or something. Talk about lop-sided priorities!
To me that's just bizarre. If this were a random bashing by a complete stranger then Olli's reaction would make more sense to me. But the attacker is someone they know, someone who knows where they live and what their routine is, someone who has threatened more violence. That makes Axel an ongoing threat. He could trail either of them (or Gregor, Judith and Lydia) and attack by surprise again.
Not seeing that as a problem is not only irrational, it's just plain stupid. It's also out of character because Olli is generally very concerned about the well-being of others, yet here he seems utterly unconcerned about the possible threat to his friends and boyfriend.
Ollian...right on target!!
I thought the acting from Jo during this episode, especially the hospital scene was one of his finest VL performances. Even how Thore conveyed Christian's reaction to the situation I thought was very well done and completely in character with his personality.
I have worked for many years in hospitals and actually dealt with victims of violence and trauma. I've treated victims of gay bashing, and when you see their loved ones, there isn't ranting and anger from family members as you may expect, but restrained emotion, buried feelings, a quietness or resigned feelings of hopelessness. Also the wanting to 'just go home' as Olli expressed was right on the mark. Victims want nothing more than to leave the hospital and be home with their family. They want to go back to a sense of being 'normal' again. Almost wanting to go back in time as though nothing had happened. So Christian's lack of emotion at finding Olli beat up and his light hearted joking at the hospital isn't uncommon an reaction, but more realistic than you would think. I thought how Jo and Thore played there scenes in this episode is more in line with what I've see over the years.
I know most wanted to see Christian pick up a chain saw and go all postal, but I think that would have looked so over the top and unrealistic. I do think Christian is filled with a lot of guilt and anger, which no doubt will come out in later episodes. We already see hints of this in how he was talking with his brother, Gregor and blaming himself for the beating. Olli of course quickly intervenes because he know's how Christian takes things and buries them with a slow simmering burn leading to an explosion. We need look no further than the trials of his coming out. It was making him furious to have to hide his sexuality, until the boxing match where he didn't hold back with his coming out, even asking the crown if 'anybody got a problem with that' And all this done in one of the most homopobic setting...the boxing ring, and without a thought of the consequences.
I'm sure fans will get what they want...a Christian going bolistic with a baseball bat, but that time isn't right now, but it's coming.
Anyway...just my 2 cents on what I thought was one of the better acted and presented episodes i've seen.
You are so right
Thanks for sharing
I said that somebody needs to slap that bitch (Axel) and as a soap fan I mean it! Because of his remarks about "princess" etc, I would like it to be a woman that smaks him down, not Christian. Maybe his mom.
thanks
Taking care
You took care of yourself, that's all that matters to me, It takes time to realize that kind of accomplishment. And that brings you here now, into this discussion. Your story informs myself and many others who come to this site. Thank you.
Yes, if God forbid it happens again, I have no doubt you would be stronger. My point is that you have shined. You shine now. That's the strength. You have nothing else to prove.
yea it does
It is amazing to me how much society has changed in the 20 years since I have been a college student. Now as a teacher I actually work with out students at my school as a sponser of our gay straight alliance. All of that would have been unthinkable 20 years ago.
Your words are both deep and kind. thanks alot.
Missing some scenes?
Are we missing some scenes ? I thought in the preview I saw yesterday there was some taunting of Olli by Axel before he attacked. Something along the lines of him (Axel) needing a lot of showers. Also others mentioned that Olli had a chance to kick Axel in the nuts...sorry but not seeing that at all...when ?? Very strange. I dislike seeing gay bashing violence (came way too close to being bashed once myself) but it just seems strange that only bit this clip has of the actual attack is Olli waking up to be spat on by Axel ? We've got to be missing something here.
Your missing scenes
The scene you are missing is at the end of the previous episode. Once Christian goes upstairs and Olli is closing up by himself.
www.thebittersuite.blogspot.com
Christian's prision record
I just wanted to add that Christian has already been incarcerated twice, sure it was for crimes he didn't commit, but nevertheless he has been to prision for a few years, so he does have a record and has to be careful. And Gregor and Christian did inform the Police about the beating and named Axel, so best let them deal with it for now. Olli isn't going to be able to cope if Christian ends up back in prision. And lets not even talk about how Christian wouldn't be able to get through the day without Olli.
This is some love story. Looking forward to how this Olli/Christian/Axel storyline unfolds.
I thought Christian's
I thought Christian's reaction towards Olli after the beating was spot-on. I didn't see anything strange there and dont think you have to be a crying mess to show caringness or emotions towards a person. We saw how Christian wanted Olli to recover well and be as safe as possible when he was asking Leonhard (the doctor) whether it would be safe for Olli to stay in the hospital or go home.
Also, Christian feeling guilty and blaming himself for Olli's attack was something I expected from him. Christian tends to regret stuff a lot but it was great of Olli in the final scene where he told Christian that he shouldn't blame himself or regret anything because it was very brave of him to come out and that he loves him. That was very cute.
Me I had one thing on my mind.
Is Christian wearing any undies when he kneeled for Ollie!
and to be frank I'm not at all surprised that Christian is the "activ one" and Ollie the "passiv one" I'd be very disapointed if this good looking boxerwannabe is not a top!
I agree, everybody acted like he simply slipt and knocked his head on the bar! Allo!
And thats my kind of medecin... a bandaid! No wonder the doctor wants to keep him under obs!
but they are so cute together it makes me forget that the makeup departement didnt have enough money in the piggy bank to give VL an german daytime award for special effects.
this was my 2 cents!
PS does germany have something similar to the Emmys!?
PS does germany have
PS does germany have something similar to the Emmys!?
No they don't.There are some awards that reward the whole show ("Best format: Soap", but that's it (AWZ won best Format local from a gay magazine and VL won best Format a few years ago during an inner European thing where they competed against soaps from other countries). Nothing as specific as the Daytime Emmys rewarding specific actors or storylines or writing or directing.
Male vs. Female fans
Re: Male vs. Female fans
I never noticed that. I guess I defended Christian's reaction since I probably would have reacted the same way. Females are probably less likely to go jump someone in retaliation and therefore connect with this storyline better. The same is true for Nuke. I have wanted Luke to dump Noah since April. He has been such a horrible boyfriend with a ridiculous storyline. I can't even bring myself to watch the clips from LukeVanFan. Again, I think my reaction reflects how I would react if I were in Lukes situation. I think thats how we relate to storylines and determines whether or not we feel compelled to defend them.
Maybe I'm Used To...
... American soaps where everything is ultra dramatic, but for me, everything fell flat. The whole thing should've been much more intense than it was. I can't believe that these people just stood around after Olli got beat up. Christian didn't go after Axel himself? Neither did Gregor? They just stood around and calmly called the police? I want to see someone getting pissed, issuing threats, chewing some scenery. The whole thing was just too calm. I didn't think the acting was all that great because it was so low key. There's subtle and then there's falling asleep.
And I agree that Olli is the 'woman' in this relationship. In fact, after the beating, Olli acted like a woman who'd been raped or something.
I don't like the direction this show and this story is taking....