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"Forbidden Love" video clip update: Brotherly love
Today's Forbidden Love picks right up where we left off yesterday: with Christian's brother Gregor catching Christian and Olli in flagrante dilecto. Gregor makes an awkward but mostly silent exit, leaving the fellas on the offensive for the rest of the episode as they attack Gregor for his chilly reaction. Why's Gregor so quiet? Well, let's just say that while he might be upset, it's not exactly for the reasons that Christian and Olli expect.
Is it a particularly fresh twist on the forced coming-out scenario? Not really. But it is sweet, and it is the long-overdue resolution of a pretty major obstacle in the couple's relationship, not to mention Christian's relationship with his only family. Group hug! You can see the clip after the break, and as always, many thanks to Nanna and The Gays Of Daytime for posting and translating! Submitted by on Fri, 2008-06-13 07:26. |
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This was wonderful.
Great episode. I was really surprised (I shoudn't have been, though) by Gregor's mature, centered & laid-back attitude. "You'll always be my little brother, no matter who you love". Awesome!
I also enjoyed Thore's acting and the little things related a lot:
0:02 Christian looking helplessly at Oli, so that Oli has to do all the talking
0:12 Christian again looking at Oli, but this time slightly shocked when he heard what Oli just said to Gregor...isn't the typical soap sentence in a situation like this the other way round? :D
0:34 Christian still buttoning up his trousers while standing in front of Gregor's door.
Christian's aggressive/defensive monologue (filled up with insecurity and bad conscience) towards Gregor resulting in his helpless and cute "Huh?" at 01:16
It's exactly what you think...
...I loved that line! LOL.
I enjoyed the helpless and pleading looks also. Very well played.
Only in the 21st Century??
I think the writers made a boo-boo when they had Christian say that homosexuality is normal in the 21st Century. Hasn't it always been normal? Oops. :)
I came out to my brother only a month ago and we had our own Christian/Gregor "ending" as well, I'm happy to report. It was great and I love my bro. I was lucky though because there was no "drama" involved at all. My brother thought I was gay all along...he was just waiting for me to tell him. Very soon, I will be coming out to my parents and he's already told me not to worry..."I'll be right there with you for full support". My brother is a great man and I've always respected him tremendously. I know that with him by my side...everything is going to be fine. ;)
dgd417
I think that christian....
i think he meant ''normal'' in the sense that "it's ok to be gay publically and society doesn't really care..." (yes, there are asses out there, but eh...you know what i mean)
Btw, your brother is very sweet. :-)
See, I Was Right!
Funny that you say that,...
...because most comments I read were that people were positively surprised that VL is not dragging out every single issue possible like people are used to by US soaps, but instead is moving on with plots.
This is true.
Were this an American soap, Gregor would give Christian the silent treatment for at least 2 or 3 weeks before finally coming to his senses. I actually think the way VL treated it--given how we know the character of Gregor--this quick resolution is far more believable.
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I'm Not So Sure....
I don't know about that.
I think Gregor's quick reaction was believable; for one thing, the writers did two neat tricks in this episode: Gregor was probably ready to accept Christian's homosexuality almost immediately until Christian prematurely berated him in an unfortunately accusatory tone, which clearly upset Gregor, closing the door on his brother; then, Gregor and Olli obviously had a conversation after their blow-up at No Limits in which Olli realized what really was causing Gregor to hurt over the situation.
Also, after years of seeing coming out scenes filled with sturm und drang, Gregor's casual acceptance was something of a relief; when I recall coming out to my brother, it was even less melodramatic--no, he didn't discover me in bed with another man--but when I told him, he was like, ok, so, you're my brother, what's the problem? It was such a relief.
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Well....
Looking at my own life, before I could come out to him, my brother actually asked me if I were gay... and when I said yes he replied 'Cool, because there's someone I'd like to fix you up with.' And it was never a big deal with my father either so I guess the Christian/Gregor thing isn't all that implasible.
And I didn't cry or tear up, which is what I would usually do, oddly enough. They did get a big 'Aww...." out of me though.
Exactly!
That's the intresting thing:
The writers decided to show that Christian's homosexuality is no issue at all for his brother. Yet the trust matter was one. But only a minor issue, because everybody who thinks clearly and acts maturely (=Gregor) realizes very quickly that the reason for keeping it secret is the fear of rejection and that the person who just came out on you doesn't need allegations, but your understanding!
My sister also had no problem with my coming out at all and I think it is very refreshing and also educational (my parents watch VL on a daily basis :-) that the writers show to the audience that a coming out can be no issue at all for family members....
Sturm und drang
What does Sturm und Drang mean
May I ask what Sturm und Drang means in English? What it is used for I mean? Because in German I have always associated to me something along the lines of youthfun exuberance. Maybe something along the lines of "maverick behavior".
Of course I always felt that "Sturm and Drang" were really a euphemism of, well, certain bodily fluids that start rushing up in puberty and make a young man want get out into the world and have lots of sex. (Drang meaning something like force, drive or rush)
In America, we use Sturm und Drang...
...to describe behavior in fiction or real life that is excessively emotional or melodramatic. Not quite campy, but definitely melodramatic, moreso than usual.
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Ah, I was getting confused
Christian and Gregor always had a thorny relationship
Well, Gregor did change his shirt in between, so there was at least a day between :)
I do think that Gregor and Christian have always had a somewhat thorny relationship. I was almost surprised that they hugged, because to my knowledge they have never hugged on screen before (then again, I missed some essential episodes, like when Christian joined or when he was released from prison; but they didn't embrace when Gregor's unborn child died, when Gregor's marriage broke up, when they made up after getting into a fistfight over their father's death).
Gregor left home whe he was 18 and there have always been some complicated feelings between him and Christian because Gregor pretty much loathed their father while Christian worshipped him and still worships him (which Gregor thinking that Christian was kidding himself and Christian thinking Gregor was being disloyal). Gregor said he thought they would stick together after their father died, but it has to be remembered that that was just a year ago. It's also not exacty the first time that they have kept things from each other. When when Christian joined the show he hadn't told Gregor that he took the blame for his father and didn't rob the gas station. Gregor only found out almost by accident, later. Christian also only heard about Gregor's callboy time a few months into the show after he joined. So they haven't always been close.
I guess that's why I wasn't this surprised that Gregor would come around this quickly because I have seen some other examples of Gregor taking some pretty bratty behavior from Christian. Gregor is frequently a guy willing to look for the bottom line rather than get stuck on details.
Gregor
Gregor (Andreas Jancke) is very attractive
I watched some clips of him at YouTube even though I couldn't understand a thing :)
Here's one where he's interviewed by a German Katie Couric'ish' lady (or should I say Merideth?). Thank god the German Matt Lauer didn't do the interview...that egg on the table would have been distracting....well, until Andreas showed up :)
I love his eyes.
And...well...just >click<
Gregor....
I have enjoyed all of the
I have enjoyed all of the Verboten Liebe clips but have sneered just a little bit at the people who said they "teared up" a bit at some of the episodes. C'mon, it's just a soap!
I teared up today.
Beautifully done all the way around.
An episode full of wonderful moments
And yes I too teared up when Christian and Gregor hugged.
This s/l is just wonderful. I look forward to every episode and really thank Nanna at GaysofDaytime for the English subtitles. Though it's making me want to re-learn German.
Fathers and Brothers
I have to say, I was really amazed at some of the comment I have read about this episode, here, on youtube, on gaysofdaytime...
Don't get me wrong, I liked this episode. Above I liked how they wrapped it up with comparatively little drama (and Gregor didn't try to send Christian to straight camp either before embracing him!). So I was suprised by how many people were really moved by Gregor's speech and gesture in the end. Probably, because from a narrative point of view, it seemed really obvious that it would happen. I mean, aside from villainous psycho parents isn't that apparently how all coming out stories must end in fiction?
Yet apparently it still rang true for a lot of people. I noticed some similar comments on some of the earlier boxing episodes where Christian told Olli about wanting to live up to his dad's expectations. I'm guessing it must be a guy thing, that the relationships with fathers and brothers can be oh so very thorny.
Of course, maybe it's because the underlying message is that maybe it pays having faith in people and they might react much better than you might expect them to.
As for twists to the coming out story, I still like Christian's first attempt with Gregor for this the most. In real life it would probably be horrifying in its own way, but in a fictional way it was pretty amusing to see Christian, who let's face it can be a bit overly dramatic at times, for whom it is a big step drop this bomb (in his mind) and have Gregor just laugh it off with "Yeah, yeah, we are all gay boxers." and just completely ignore what was supposed to be Christian's big dramatic moment.
Christian and Gregor
I get the feeling that people weren't shocked...but just touched. I said it earlier...it was a great episode about the brothers. The secret being found out (finally) played second chair. It was nice to see the exchange...here are these two guys who have just each other left. Sure, they'll have relationships and perhaps kids one day...but for the most part they are the only family they have. It wasn't so much that he accepted his gay brother...it's that he accepted him without conditions.
Many gay people have had negative reations from family members when they came out...so in this case it was nice to see a good outcome play out.
I think it's less that I
I think it's less that I expected people to be shocked or surprised. More, isn't this a scene we have seen countless times before? It was nice and all, but it didn't feel like it was a particular novel variation on the concept since it at least feels to me like it is the standard happy solution in any soap opera that covers the subject. (though it's nice that VL got there fast than most)
Interesting to see that those scenes, no matter how often they are done will manage to affect.
personally, I'm furious with Olli...
for stopping Christian from getting out of bed naked.
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Re:
This is twice I've been
pleasantly surprised, first with Shelter's coming out scenes and now this, though I was kind of expecting Gregor to be fine with it, given the absolute support and acceptance he always gave Olli, even against Christian.
I would have enjoyed just a little bit more if he had said he wasn't surprised at all though, given how Olli and Christian went from at each other's throats to attached at the hip, Christian's hissy fit about the guy hitting on Olli, his coming up on them several times post coitus, Christian saying he wasn't interested in girls, etc... though I suppose he's been wrapped up in his own stuff. and it's pretty much a soap opera trope for people to constantly miss what most people in real life would take notice of.
And yes, the speed in which this storyline has developed and moved along puts American soaps to shame.
Gregor knew..
Exactly! Also, the conversation between Gregor and Olli could have been a bit longer and the hug of the two brothers could have been much longer! I don't think it was too quick for Gregor to react the way he did, but I wished each scene with him and Christian and Olli had been a bit longer.
I would like to see Gregor and Christian having a discussion, where Gregor says he knew. Kind of. I mean, he must have known.
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R.I.P. - Heath Ledger [1979 - 22 January 2008]
R.I.P. - Sayif [2006 - 12 June 2008] - my cat, run over by a car..
Gregor not knowing
I don't really have a problem with Gregor not knowing. The thought of Christian having sex with a guy, any guy, just didn't fit into his experience and so it never occured to him as an option at all (aside from him being busy getting over his own pain by screwing everything with a skirt). It bears remembering that the only person who guessed that C&O were together is Judith who never knew Coco or had met the homophobic Christian.
And the show made it pretty obvious how much Gregor didn't know at all, his attempts to hook Christian up with a girl, his reaction to Christian playing along with Wolle.
I kinda wish that the two brothers would have talked more and Gregor would have asked some more detail, but I guess they are guys and Mann guys, so whatever suits them best.
I thought Christian would
I thought Christian would have said something like "I tried to tell you before and you didn't believe me." I always thought that was a rather strange reaction on Gregor's part, given how direct and serious Christian was when he told him, but it said to me that Gregor was in denial about his brother being gay.
I'm glad they didn't drag out the Christian-Gregor misunderstanding and I like the fact that (again) Olli was the voice of reason. It's obvious these two brothers really love each other, so it seems more realistic that they would make up quickly rather than not speak to each other for weeks, as they might on an American soap.
What I hope they get to next is Christian's feelings growing up-- was he supressing them all along or did they just come up now? I sincerely hope they don't go into Craig Dean territory and have Christian claim he never liked guys until Olli came along and rocked his world. Given the family pressures Christian and Gregor were under, it makes sense that Christian would have to hide parts of himself he considered shameful or bad. His drive to achieve in order to prove he's worthy of love is, I think, a common aspect of gay experience and one that certainly resonates with me.
All in all, an exciting episode with so much great acting, directing, writing. This show continues to impress!