Didn't get enough of that handsome rascal John Barrowman from our interview with him? The dashing and very out actor graces the cover of next month's Out Magazine, as you can see above. Rawr.
What is with the cover? Did they hire Mariah carey's personal airbrusher? He looks outlandish and robotic. As usual, he is being hailed by the gays as the "next big thing" thanks to his newest film and "good" looks. John Barrowman is one of the WORST (out) gay actors out there. He stunk up the screen as a histrionic cad in Central Park West. He butchered a beautiful song in the Cole Porter biopic De-Lovely. His acting in scenes with Kevin Kline were as bland and ordinary as his singing voice. He's a lousy singer and an even lousier actor! He's just another pretty face from the endless line of pretty faces. The ONLY reason this actor is getting all this hype for Torchwood is because he looks good. That's it. As usual, the shallow, superficial queer community is mistaking looks for actual talent. And again, another WHITE celebrity on the cover of Out magazine? Snooooooooooooooze!
I like the guy. I think his interviews are always boring because he generally focuses on the outlandish or sexual side of his personality but as a actor I like him . He's no better and no worse than the rest of the actors currently in SciFi TV. His views on open gay relationships and marriage usually make me cringe but then I'm not asking him to be a spokesperson for the community...I'll leave that to Dan Savage.
I think he's crudely egotistical and his brain needs to be re-wired. I remember reading a brief interview about him in Seventeen magazine of all places. My sister used to buy it in the mid-90s when we were teenagers, so sue me! Anyway, Barrowman was talking about his penis size (TACKY!) and I think how many girls he's slept with (EVEN TACKIER!). He's the empress of TMI (too much information). I don't think readers need to be bludgeoned on the head time and again with his sexual exploits. Still waters run deep so he's the equivalent of a pond. Like the classic britbrit song, Barrowman's not an actor, not yet a singer. Those youtube clips are underwhelming (diplomatically) or craptastic (undiplomatically). Take your pick.
I think he's crudely egotistical and his brain needs to be re-wired. I remember reading a brief interview about him in Seventeen magazine of all places. My sister used to buy it in the mid-90s when we were teenagers, so sue me! Anyway, Barrowman was talking about his penis size (TACKY!) and I think how many girls he's slept with (EVEN TACKIER!). He's the empress of TMI (too much information). I don't think readers need to be bludgeoned on the head time and again with his sexual exploits. Still waters run deep so he's the equivalent of a pond. Like the classic britbrit song, Barrowman's not an actor, not yet a singer. Those youtube clips are underwhelming (diplomatically) or craptastic (undiplomatically). Take your pick.
But if "still waters run deep" then he isn't a pond, he's a puddle. LOL I agree with you on the interview style, it's a bit in your face, no pun intended. But I don't mind him as an actor...there's a lot worse. I think he does a good job playing Capt. Jack. Have you watched the series? I've downloaded it and he's good in it. Are there better actors? Sure. But he's fine and he is handsome.
Hee hee! You think he's handsome? He looks like he has the same makeup artist of Jude Law in Spielberg's AI: Artificial Intelligence. He looks like a computer generated image (very unrealistic and photoshopped to the infinite power). He's a horrible actor and he needs to shut the eff up. He was the worst part of Central Park West, and that's saying a lot! He looked like he was reading of a cue card in De-Lovely. The scene where he's struggling with the song was so cringeworthy. But of course the gays are proclaiming him as this great actor thanks to Torchwood and that atrocious series of his. Looks trump talent yet again in the gay community. Groan :/
I think he's crudely egotistical and his brain needs to be re-wired. I remember reading a brief interview about him in Seventeen magazine of all places. My sister used to buy it in the mid-90s when we were teenagers, so sue me! Anyway, Barrowman was talking about his penis size (TACKY!) and I think how many girls he's slept with (EVEN TACKIER!). He's the empress of TMI (too much information). I don't think readers need to be bludgeoned on the head time and again with his sexual exploits. Still waters run deep so he's the equivalent of a pond. Like the classic britbrit song, Barrowman's not an actor, not yet a singer. Those youtube clips are underwhelming (diplomatically) or craptastic (undiplomatically). Take your pick.
You had me there for a moment. You hit the nail on the head for why I seldom pick up any of these rags; "pretty hollywood" faces with lives that are as far from reality as one could ever imagine. And, as a working stiff that is now late for work and needs to pay my mortgage today, yah, I just don't know if I can scrounge up enough imagination. If I was one of them maybe I could imagine wearing one of those $500 pair of jeans that they advertise in these rags to us "typical" gay men. Even AfterElton has me worried about it's slant towards those hollywood so called elite. Whatever!
BUT, I've got to say, you lost me when you went off the deep end crying about "another WHITE celebrity on the cover". As a WHITE gay man, I've got to say I'm sick and tired of all the WHITE bashing going on today. I'm always getting advice from the gay community on how we all need to LOVE one another and be TOLERANT of all people, but it never seems to fail, even the gay community feels it ok to bash the WHITEs. As a WHITE man that offends me!
Sincerely, Dean (WHITE gay man)
Alex and Dean - Gay Men Talking www.alexanddean.com
I go by iloathesluts for obvious reasons (sluts are tacky, annoying, I could go on and on......). Airbrushing Extravaganza was the title for my contribution to this John Barrowman topic.
How did my contribution about another white man on the cover of Out constitute as white gay bashing? A little melodramatic aren't we? Should you be running off to work or to an audition to ATWT? The queer community is regularly bombarded with images of "beauty" that are WHITE. The gay definition of beauty ALWAYS favors/slants toward white. Look at the "hot" 100 list of this very website. Majority are white.
Quite frankly, it's racist to consistently promote white "beauty" and relegate other races to the background. Majority of the queer shows cater to the white gay audience and portray the white gay audience. There's the "thank God it's dead and buried", terribly produced, horrifically acted, nauseatingly scripted US version of qaf. (I'm still steaming mad with its racist portrayals of an Asian male prostitute and the lack of racial representation there. But then again, no minority is better than a racially offensive portrayal of a minority). Same goes for its better version, the original qaf. There's overrated, mercifully killed will & grace. dante's cove and the L-Word have majority white casts. Even the first gay love story on a daytime drama has to involve 2 white twinks on ATWT. Whites have been dominating magazines, magazine covers, blogs, etc. So I have every right to express my displeasure. Consistently featuring white gay actors, models, storylines, characters, etc. is shortchanging and even (in)directly bashing other non-white gays.
another blatant example of the gay community's obsession with men who part their hair on the right side. When will Out magazine feature men who favor the left or middle? I'm short on time, so let's just pretend I typed a lot of catty, vitrolic, community-dividing insults here and call it good.
Yes the Out magazine is another blatant example of whites hogging the media coverage. But how exactly are my comments insults? I'm just stating what's obvious. If anything, the Out cover is community-dividing since once again they are glorifying white "beauty" and oppresing minorities in the process. Cover after cover, blog after blog, magazine after magazine, website after website, the beauty standards in the gay community are always WHITE. Out has once again propagated these racist, lookist, ageist and weightist standards with this Barrowman cover. And to add insult to injury, he's a terrible actor! He butchered a classic love song in De-Lovely, he stinks up the small screen with his community theatre level acting, and he talks like a slutty weirdo in interview. But we're all expected to swoon and worship this guy as the next big thing because he's white and "physically attractive" as defined by the racist status quo? Pass the barf bag!
Yes the Out magazine is another blatant example of whites hogging the media coverage. But how exactly are my comments insults? I'm just stating what's obvious. If anything, the Out cover is community-dividing since once again they are glorifying white "beauty" and oppresing minorities in the process. Cover after cover, blog after blog, magazine after magazine, website after website, the beauty standards in the gay community are always WHITE. Out has once again propagated these racist, lookist, ageist and weightist standards with this Barrowman cover. And to add insult to injury, he's a terrible actor! He butchered a classic love song in De-Lovely, he stinks up the small screen with his community theatre level acting, and he talks like a slutty weirdo in interview. But we're all expected to swoon and worship this guy as the next big thing because he's white and "physically attractive" as defined by the racist status quo? Pass the barf bag!
at least those that have other redeeming qualities, such as a sense of humour, and a kind heart. One of the nicest gay men I ever knew had had sex with over 1,000 men! Totally the opposite of me, but he had qualities I like in a person. So Iloathesluts take a deep breath, step back, and try and take some of the vitriol out of your comments, life is too short to hate so much (and yes you are right that western society does favour white males when it comes to what is considered sexy, and yes it is unfair, my sexy Filipino hubby with the great butt thinks so to!).
I always try and remember George Santayana's quotation about life - "There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval."
Oh? So sluts have redeeming qualities now? Since when? I didn't get that memo.
So your advice is for all of us to sit back and allow these racist, lookist, ageist and weightist mentalities continue their reign of terror in the queer community since life is too short? We should all just take a chill pill and be fine with all the whites hogging cover after cover of practically every queer magazine. So to extend that lazy train of thought, I guess we should just be okay with homophobia too? Society is after all still very homophobic, so since life is just too short, let's not work against that.
Iloathesluts. I was trying to convey to you that writing your comments with the tone worthy of a pit bull with a lit firecracker up his bum may not be the best way to get your point across. You seem to have a mind that sees the negative in everything around you and none of the positive. If a person has a negative quality you dislike (such as being a slut) then the whole person is worthy of dislike. And really hyperbolic language such as "reign of terror" is not going to get you taken seriously. The brutal fact of the matter is the gay community (which is after all still fairly new) does reflect some of the innate biases seen in western society as a whole. The fact that many of the queer magazines emphasize young, attractive, fit and white males should not surprise anyone and is not likely to change soon (except the white part). Sex sells, men think about sex alot, men (straight and gay) like young, fit, people to stare at and fantasize about (generally speaking of course). Unfair absolutely, that is why I don't buy the magazines, they just don't interest me being an older gay male, but I am not going to waste my time ranting over what is the basic nature of the male human animal!
Finally I really do take exception to your lack of rational thinking in your last sentence. Homophobia is a pernicious and deadly fear that poisons society and breeds violence and hatred against gays. Fighting it has nothing to do with who "Out" magazine or any other gay rag sticks on its' front cover.
"Iloathesluts. I was trying to convey to you that writing your comments with the tone worthy of a pit bull with a lit firecracker up his bum may not be the best way to get your point across."
A firecracker up a pit bull's bum? Nasty and kinda freakishly funny too. Does everything have to be up the bum though? Just kidding.
"You seem to have a mind that sees the negative in everything around you and none of the positive. If a person has a negative quality you dislike (such as being a slut) then the whole person is worthy of dislike."
Thank you Dr. Phil for your arm chair psychobabbling. This sounds like something so inane only taywhore hayes, the slutty quack of Daytime drama B&B, would say.
"And really hyperbolic language such as "reign of terror" is not going to get you taken seriously."
You think that's an exaggeration? I think the deeply rooted racism, ageism, weightism and lookism in the queer community are terrifying things.
"Finally I really do take exception to your lack of rational thinking in your last sentence. Homophobia is a pernicious and deadly fear that poisons society and breeds violence and hatred against gays. Fighting it has nothing to do with who "Out" magazine or any other gay rag sticks on its' front cover."
Discrimination is discrimination. Homophobia is discrimination. Racism within the queer community is discrimination. A person has to choose their battles. You choose to fight homophobia, fine. Personally, I think racial discrimination within the queer community is even worse than homophobia from non-queers. How would you feel if you were discriminated by your own kind? What appears on the cover of Out (and that's just one example out of many) is a by-product of that pre-existing discrimination within the queer community.
iloathesluts, this is my last comment to you. Sadly I agree with some of your comments just your delivery needs some polishing! Your comment about my "psychobabbling" summarizes for me the issues I have with your comments, you seem extremely bitter and intolerant of others, and feel this need to attack. I will leave you with a few isms of my own that I think apply to you at this time in your life.
"Terminalselfrighteousism", "Willfullyintolerantofothersism" and my favourite "wenttoschoolwastedalotofmoneyandlearnedverylittleism".
Good luck in battling discrimination within the gay community and have a good life, Hopefully you will not drown in that poisonous, bitter brew you are wallowing in.
Most people on the covers of gay magazines are straight. That goes for gay magazines around the world. You rarely see a gay person on the cover of a non-gay magazine let alone most gay magazines. Gay magazines dedicated to gay people of color are the same way. Instinct magazine is the only major gay magazine that has gay people on the cover regularly.
Meow! Calling me bitter, self-righteous, intolerant, etc. Quite nasty. Anyway, to respond to the incoherence known as your ramblings:
"Sadly I agree with some of your comments just your delivery needs some polishing!"
Well that's progress. One converted mind at a time. As for polishing, stick to dispensing advice on polishing door knobs. Kidding!
"Your comment about my "psychobabbling" summarizes for me the issues I have with your comments"
You have issues with my comments? Huh? They make pills for that.
"you seem extremely bitter and intolerant of others and feel this need to attack"
I am extremely intolerant of racism. I am particularly intolerant of racist, white gay guys who are completely fine with the present status quo since they are enjoying the view from the apex of the queer pyramid. And btw, I like my chocolates bitter.
"I will leave you with a few isms of my own that I think apply to you at this time in your life."
My my my. From Oprah's psychobabbling, Texan pet, you have now transmogrified into the Dalai Lama! I love it. But you forgot to put the following isms:
"I'm not comfortable because your opinions are spot on ism," "Willfully intolerant of racists ism" and "Even more willfully intolerant of sluts ism."
"Good luck in battling discrimination within the gay community and have a good life, Hopefully you will not drown in that poisonous, bitter brew you are wallowing in."
Thanks for wishing me good luck. I'm gonna need it since there is so much utterly wrong within the queer community, and discrimination is a major part of that. As for my drowning in my "brew" I'm wallowing in, maybe you can throw me a life vest. Oops I don't think you can since you're on the apex enjoying the status quo. Btw, first the Filipino hubby and now Japanese goodbye sayonara? Well someone likes rice.
For someone who claims to be so disgusted by racism, you sure don't seem to mind making racist comments yourself. Pot calling the kettle black? Ooops, I prob shouldn't have said that. Guess that makes me just another whitey trying to keep a brother down.
"Btw, first the Filipino hubby and now Japanese goodbye sayonara? Well someone likes rice."
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
(Celtic Tiger, Janet, Michael Jensen, Evan) for your support in this unfortunate spat with iloathesluts. I hesitated initially in responding to his comments (because I suspected I was leaving myself open to attack), but felt I could not take his bitter, intolerant attitude to certain people in our community without expressing my opinions in as civilized a fashion as I could muster. Sadly unbeknownst to him, I was a potential allie of his, if he had only listened carefully to what I was saying. I was appalled when I first came out years ago (1986) in the blatant or underlying racism that existed in our community. I guess I was naive, racism is a scourge of the human race and is not isolated to straights (and contrary to popular belief in some areas not a problem unique to Caucasions).
Near the end of the arguments I was starting to lose my temper that is why I decided to terminate the conversations (I did not use Sayonara to provoke him, I could have used Adios or as JustinAndrews can testify "G'day"). Well it has been quite a return to Afterelton after spending 10 days on Grand Manan Island ("Island Paradise for Lesbians" according to a gay tourist magazine I picked up on Pride weekend). This morning after reading his comments I was tempted to buy a plane ticket back to the Cottage and get some more TLC from the Christian Fundamentalists! Although I disagree with where their heads are at re. gays, I often find on a one-on-one basis their hearts are in the right place. My mom's best friend was concerned that I had lost so much weight (I am HIV+), but my mom assured her it was because I work out every day! I was very touched by her concern, and she gave me a very affectionate hug when I left.
Well that is all the "rambling" for now (as iloathesluts would say).
Normally I would confront a situation like this however I knew he already made up his mind and would persist. Plus, some of you guys said what I would have said. I gave you five stars for that.
...and I suspect you have many more supporters out there. I'm just sorry this caused you stress. I always feel awful after an altercation of flaming or whatever even in the anonymous world of the net. A lovely actor once told me "never under-estimate the impact your words have on others". He was responding to some shy praise I had given him. He, in turn, changed my world with those words.
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
I had read some of his posts on other threads and found them inflamatory to say the least (I replied to a few of those as well). I have zero tolerance for racism and could not sit by when he was attacking someone simply because they disagreed( or in your case JBE, agreeing with him on certain points) with his opinion. I even sent a message to Brian to see if anythng could be done about his venomous rantings, though they already had the situation under control (cheers Brian and Michael). I thought your replies to his comments were very civilized considering the insults he hurled not only at yourself but your partner who wasn't even part of the discussion. Far more civilized than I would have been had not Michael remedied the situation. I also have a low tolerance for those that set themselves up as the pinnacle of morality, as most of those foundations are built on quicksand. It was a joy to watch him sink.
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
I'm new here but I've been lurking for many months and have found the discourse to be interesting and more importantly civil. I'm sorry this episode broke the calm but, fortunately, the moderators acted judiciously.
If JBE likes Asian men than he has good taste. I'm an Asian woman so I know how stunning men in my race are. =) The issue of racism is complicated that it can't be reduced to if you don't support Isaiah Washington then you're a bigot or if you think John Barrowman is sexy then you're giving in to the White fascist powers. I've experienced racism, including physical assaults, from Blacks, Whites, Latinos, and even different ethnic groups within my race. It's not a black/white issue anymore, no pun intended.
Most of all you can't be bitter and direct hatred against those merely because they benefit in some way from an unequal society. If I did this I'd have to hate everyone and lose out on friends and allies. You have to aim for the unjust system and be constructive. JBE as an HIV+ man you have an entirely different set of challenges and discrimination many of us will never encounter and salute your courage in the face of a daunting disease and your kindness of heart. It's terrible for anyone to assume you live complete privilege because of your race.
I'm not gay but I fully support the LGBT community because 1)with many gay, lesbian, and two transgendered people who've helped shape me it was important I give back, 2)no movement is effective or has moral authority if it hates and seeks to supress another, and 3) there are so many gay and lesbian Asians in progressive causes and marginalizing them means neutralizing the goals. I enjoy this site because it of its positive tone and its featuring of out entertainers, who don't get much coverage in the mainstream press. Keep up the good work. Hopefully the post wasn't too boring.
your post was very articulate and well thought out. Your discussion regarding racism I found particularly interesting. Working in one of the world's most diverse cities (Toronto) I find that race is a point of conflict at times, but ethnicity and religion are just as important if not more so. I once had to manage a female Hindu employee and a Moslem male (also religious) employee. From day one I could sense the tension, much more so than any issue I have encountered between black and white.
My personal point of view is that virulent tribalism is a better description of the negative dynamics that can go on in a society that is increasingly mobile and multi-cultural. Racism is one way that virulent tribalism can manifest itself, but tribes can also be formed according to gender, ethnic group (think of the Balkan countries), religion, and yes even sexual orientation. What do I mean by virulent tribalism? It is a belief that my group (whether it be gay or straight, male or female, Christian or Moslem) is better than your group, more deserving of respect than your group, and I demonstrate that by consciously (or systemically) oppressing you to make sure my group gets the lion share of the spoils. I am pragmatic enough to know we will never achieve my utopia, that people realize that everyone of us is unique, valuable, lovable and worthy of respect, but at least we should have it in the back of our minds as an ideal in guiding our daily interactions with each other.
I thank you for your comments regarding my courage and kindness of heart, although I am not sure I can take full credit for these qualities. Am I courageous? Well if looking after myself physically, emotionally and mentally while dealing with being gay and HIV+ is courage then so be it, I just felt I never had a choice in the matter. Furthermore, every GLBT that is posting on this site and living their lives to the best of their ability is courageous. I have always reacted with anger when people imply that GLBT people are weak, if they only knew what it takes on a day to day basis to accept who you are and live a productive, loving life. As for my kindness of heart, part of that was a conscious decision by me not to become bitter or full of self-pity over my HIV status (for the record I always practiced safer sex and was not very promiscuous so the diagnosis came as a big shock) but alot of the credit goes to my partner who has been patient with me and given me so much love over the past 10 years. Loneliness can be a terrible burden at times and can embitter even the best-intentioned souls.
JBE, I consider anyone living with HIV/ AIDS in a society that stigmatizes it along with being in a marginalized group and to do so with productivity and a positive attitude as courageous. Although you live in a more tolerant country I doubt it's utopia and you do face your own set of obstacles. Bitterness is an easy pill and a cheap rationalization for doing nothing and it's much harder to be constructive.
Your analysis on tribalism is quite accurate in many ways and I'd like to add insularity as a dynamic within that concept. Insularity leaves those in a group isolated from potential allies and leads to pessimism and fear bordering on paranoia. This has caused many to support regressive ideals.
As an example I know many Jewish people who were frightened over the rise of the Christian right in American politics and the growth of Middle Eastern terrorism, which aims at the destruction of Israel and its Jewish population. Against their more liberal principles they're hesitant to publically question the state of Israel's policies and even donate to conservative organizations. When every group does this it stalls needed radical reform.
Early on I decided to study the histories of labor, feminism, anti-racism, and gay movements. First to do so is inspirational and give brilliant strategies for other causes. Secondly it provides a fuller picture of reality so as not to begin scapegoating. That's why I bristle at the "jews own the media" or the "gay mafia" canards because both obscure the real struggles of two groups within the power structure.
Lastly I wanted to thank the staff and the members for maintaining and fostering a sense of positivity I find lacking on some gay-related sites. I, especially, cheer the ongoing promotion of out actors. I keep hearing that nothing will ever change until an A-List actor comes out but that's not where true progress begins. John Barrowman being a lead in a sci-fi show with an adoring female following is more important than the identity of "Toothy Tile." Neil Patrick Harris portraying a womanizer without anyone batting an eyelash is more important than actor X giving hints about his sexuality in an interview. TR Knight securing $125,000 per episode plus a cut of Grey's Anatomy's profit, a deal in itself hailed by industry experts as lucrative, is more important than actor Y spotted walking with his alleged boyfriend. Keep up the good work.
Niiiice.
They definitely picked his best side for the cover photo. Heh.
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
Perfect?
He has it all; handsome face, muscular body, great personality, amazing husband, successful career and a big you-know-what.
...and leather fantasies,
Airbrushing Extravaganza!
What is with the cover? Did they hire Mariah carey's personal airbrusher? He looks outlandish and robotic. As usual, he is being hailed by the gays as the "next big thing" thanks to his newest film and "good" looks. John Barrowman is one of the WORST (out) gay actors out there. He stunk up the screen as a histrionic cad in Central Park West. He butchered a beautiful song in the Cole Porter biopic De-Lovely. His acting in scenes with Kevin Kline were as bland and ordinary as his singing voice. He's a lousy singer and an even lousier actor! He's just another pretty face from the endless line of pretty faces. The ONLY reason this actor is getting all this hype for Torchwood is because he looks good. That's it. As usual, the shallow, superficial queer community is mistaking looks for actual talent. And again, another WHITE celebrity on the cover of Out magazine? Snooooooooooooooze!
He's one note in interviews, but I like him
To GayTVluver
I can agree with most of that
But if "still waters run deep" then he isn't a pond, he's a puddle. LOL I agree with you on the interview style, it's a bit in your face, no pun intended. But I don't mind him as an actor...there's a lot worse. I think he does a good job playing Capt. Jack. Have you watched the series? I've downloaded it and he's good in it. Are there better actors? Sure. But he's fine and he is handsome.
Whoops! I meant PUDDLE!
To GayTVluver
You had me, then you lost me
Dear Airbrushing Extravaganza!
You had me there for a moment. You hit the nail on the head for why I seldom pick up any of these rags; "pretty hollywood" faces with lives that are as far from reality as one could ever imagine. And, as a working stiff that is now late for work and needs to pay my mortgage today, yah, I just don't know if I can scrounge up enough imagination. If I was one of them maybe I could imagine wearing one of those $500 pair of jeans that they advertise in these rags to us "typical" gay men. Even AfterElton has me worried about it's slant towards those hollywood so called elite. Whatever!
BUT, I've got to say, you lost me when you went off the deep end crying about "another WHITE celebrity on the cover". As a WHITE gay man, I've got to say I'm sick and tired of all the WHITE bashing going on today. I'm always getting advice from the gay community on how we all need to LOVE one another and be TOLERANT of all people, but it never seems to fail, even the gay community feels it ok to bash the WHITEs. As a WHITE man that offends me!
Sincerely,
Dean (WHITE gay man)
Alex and Dean - Gay Men Talking
www.alexanddean.com
Did I Touch a Nerve?
Dear Dean (WHITE gay man),
I go by iloathesluts for obvious reasons (sluts are tacky, annoying, I could go on and on......). Airbrushing Extravaganza was the title for my contribution to this John Barrowman topic.
How did my contribution about another white man on the cover of Out constitute as white gay bashing? A little melodramatic aren't we? Should you be running off to work or to an audition to ATWT? The queer community is regularly bombarded with images of "beauty" that are WHITE. The gay definition of beauty ALWAYS favors/slants toward white. Look at the "hot" 100 list of this very website. Majority are white.
Quite frankly, it's racist to consistently promote white "beauty" and relegate other races to the background. Majority of the queer shows cater to the white gay audience and portray the white gay audience. There's the "thank God it's dead and buried", terribly produced, horrifically acted, nauseatingly scripted US version of qaf. (I'm still steaming mad with its racist portrayals of an Asian male prostitute and the lack of racial representation there. But then again, no minority is better than a racially offensive portrayal of a minority). Same goes for its better version, the original qaf. There's overrated, mercifully killed will & grace. dante's cove and the L-Word have majority white casts. Even the first gay love story on a daytime drama has to involve 2 white twinks on ATWT. Whites have been dominating magazines, magazine covers, blogs, etc. So I have every right to express my displeasure. Consistently featuring white gay actors, models, storylines, characters, etc. is shortchanging and even (in)directly bashing other non-white gays.
another blatant example of
another blatant example of the gay community's obsession with men who part their hair on the right side. When will Out magazine feature men who favor the left or middle? I'm short on time, so let's just pretend I typed a lot of catty, vitrolic, community-dividing insults here and call it good.
To idetestprudes:
Really original screen name btw.
Yes the Out magazine is another blatant example of whites hogging the media coverage. But how exactly are my comments insults? I'm just stating what's obvious. If anything, the Out cover is community-dividing since once again they are glorifying white "beauty" and oppresing minorities in the process. Cover after cover, blog after blog, magazine after magazine, website after website, the beauty standards in the gay community are always WHITE. Out has once again propagated these racist, lookist, ageist and weightist standards with this Barrowman cover. And to add insult to injury, he's a terrible actor! He butchered a classic love song in De-Lovely, he stinks up the small screen with his community theatre level acting, and he talks like a slutty weirdo in interview. But we're all expected to swoon and worship this guy as the next big thing because he's white and "physically attractive" as defined by the racist status quo? Pass the barf bag!
To idetestprudes:
Really original screen name btw.
Yes the Out magazine is another blatant example of whites hogging the media coverage. But how exactly are my comments insults? I'm just stating what's obvious. If anything, the Out cover is community-dividing since once again they are glorifying white "beauty" and oppresing minorities in the process. Cover after cover, blog after blog, magazine after magazine, website after website, the beauty standards in the gay community are always WHITE. Out has once again propagated these racist, lookist, ageist and weightist standards with this Barrowman cover. And to add insult to injury, he's a terrible actor! He butchered a classic love song in De-Lovely, he stinks up the small screen with his community theatre level acting, and he talks like a slutty weirdo in interview. But we're all expected to swoon and worship this guy as the next big thing because he's white and "physically attractive" as defined by the racist status quo? Pass the barf bag!
I Love Sluts
at least those that have other redeeming qualities, such as a sense of humour, and a kind heart. One of the nicest gay men I ever knew had had sex with over 1,000 men! Totally the opposite of me, but he had qualities I like in a person. So Iloathesluts take a deep breath, step back, and try and take some of the vitriol out of your comments, life is too short to hate so much (and yes you are right that western society does favour white males when it comes to what is considered sexy, and yes it is unfair, my sexy Filipino hubby with the great butt thinks so to!).
I always try and remember George Santayana's quotation about life - "There is no cure for birth and death save to enjoy the interval."
Cheers
JBE
Sluts have redeeming qualities?
Oh? So sluts have redeeming qualities now? Since when? I didn't get that memo.
So your advice is for all of us to sit back and allow these racist, lookist, ageist and weightist mentalities continue their reign of terror in the queer community since life is too short? We should all just take a chill pill and be fine with all the whites hogging cover after cover of practically every queer magazine. So to extend that lazy train of thought, I guess we should just be okay with homophobia too? Society is after all still very homophobic, so since life is just too short, let's not work against that.
BULL!
iloathesluts
Well I tried
Iloathesluts. I was trying to convey to you that writing your comments with the tone worthy of a pit bull with a lit firecracker up his bum may not be the best way to get your point across. You seem to have a mind that sees the negative in everything around you and none of the positive. If a person has a negative quality you dislike (such as being a slut) then the whole person is worthy of dislike. And really hyperbolic language such as "reign of terror" is not going to get you taken seriously. The brutal fact of the matter is the gay community (which is after all still fairly new) does reflect some of the innate biases seen in western society as a whole. The fact that many of the queer magazines emphasize young, attractive, fit and white males should not surprise anyone and is not likely to change soon (except the white part). Sex sells, men think about sex alot, men (straight and gay) like young, fit, people to stare at and fantasize about (generally speaking of course). Unfair absolutely, that is why I don't buy the magazines, they just don't interest me being an older gay male, but I am not going to waste my time ranting over what is the basic nature of the male human animal!
Finally I really do take exception to your lack of rational thinking in your last sentence. Homophobia is a pernicious and deadly fear that poisons society and breeds violence and hatred against gays. Fighting it has nothing to do with who "Out" magazine or any other gay rag sticks on its' front cover.
Cheers
JBE
Reply to Well I tried
"Iloathesluts. I was trying to convey to you that writing your comments with the tone worthy of a pit bull with a lit firecracker up his bum may not be the best way to get your point across."
A firecracker up a pit bull's bum? Nasty and kinda freakishly funny too. Does everything have to be up the bum though? Just kidding.
"You seem to have a mind that sees the negative in everything around you and none of the positive. If a person has a negative quality you dislike (such as being a slut) then the whole person is worthy of dislike."
Thank you Dr. Phil for your arm chair psychobabbling. This sounds like something so inane only taywhore hayes, the slutty quack of Daytime drama B&B, would say.
"And really hyperbolic language such as "reign of terror" is not going to get you taken seriously."
You think that's an exaggeration? I think the deeply rooted racism, ageism, weightism and lookism in the queer community are terrifying things.
"Finally I really do take exception to your lack of rational thinking in your last sentence. Homophobia is a pernicious and deadly fear that poisons society and breeds violence and hatred against gays. Fighting it has nothing to do with who "Out" magazine or any other gay rag sticks on its' front cover."
Discrimination is discrimination. Homophobia is discrimination. Racism within the queer community is discrimination. A person has to choose their battles. You choose to fight homophobia, fine. Personally, I think racial discrimination within the queer community is even worse than homophobia from non-queers. How would you feel if you were discriminated by your own kind? What appears on the cover of Out (and that's just one example out of many) is a by-product of that pre-existing discrimination within the queer community.
Sayonara
iloathesluts, this is my last comment to you. Sadly I agree with some of your comments just your delivery needs some polishing! Your comment about my "psychobabbling" summarizes for me the issues I have with your comments, you seem extremely bitter and intolerant of others, and feel this need to attack. I will leave you with a few isms of my own that I think apply to you at this time in your life.
"Terminalselfrighteousism", "Willfullyintolerantofothersism" and my favourite "wenttoschoolwastedalotofmoneyandlearnedverylittleism".
Good luck in battling discrimination within the gay community and have a good life, Hopefully you will not drown in that poisonous, bitter brew you are wallowing in.
Cheers
JBE
Gay Magazine Covers
Most people on the covers of gay magazines are straight. That goes for gay magazines around the world. You rarely see a gay person on the cover of a non-gay magazine let alone most gay magazines. Gay magazines dedicated to gay people of color are the same way. Instinct magazine is the only major gay magazine that has gay people on the cover regularly.
Reply to Sayonara
Meow! Calling me bitter, self-righteous, intolerant, etc. Quite nasty. Anyway, to respond to the incoherence known as your ramblings:
"Sadly I agree with some of your comments just your delivery needs some polishing!"
Well that's progress. One converted mind at a time. As for polishing, stick to dispensing advice on polishing door knobs. Kidding!
"Your comment about my "psychobabbling" summarizes for me the issues I have with your comments"
You have issues with my comments? Huh? They make pills for that.
"you seem extremely bitter and intolerant of others and feel this need to attack"
I am extremely intolerant of racism. I am particularly intolerant of racist, white gay guys who are completely fine with the present status quo since they are enjoying the view from the apex of the queer pyramid. And btw, I like my chocolates bitter.
"I will leave you with a few isms of my own that I think apply to you at this time in your life."
My my my. From Oprah's psychobabbling, Texan pet, you have now transmogrified into the Dalai Lama! I love it. But you forgot to put the following isms:
"I'm not comfortable because your opinions are spot on ism," "Willfully intolerant of racists ism" and "Even more willfully intolerant of sluts ism."
"Good luck in battling discrimination within the gay community and have a good life, Hopefully you will not drown in that poisonous, bitter brew you are wallowing in."
Thanks for wishing me good luck. I'm gonna need it since there is so much utterly wrong within the queer community, and discrimination is a major part of that. As for my drowning in my "brew" I'm wallowing in, maybe you can throw me a life vest. Oops I don't think you can since you're on the apex enjoying the status quo. Btw, first the Filipino hubby and now Japanese goodbye sayonara? Well someone likes rice.
Double Standards
For someone who claims to be so disgusted by racism, you sure don't seem to mind making racist comments yourself. Pot calling the kettle black? Ooops, I prob shouldn't have said that. Guess that makes me just another whitey trying to keep a brother down.
"Btw, first the Filipino hubby and now Japanese goodbye sayonara? Well someone likes rice."
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
After being warned once about being abusive
Thank You, Michael
Differences of opinion is one thing, personal attacks are another. Thank you for taking action on this disruptive influence.
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
Yes, Michael, thank you!
Since that "rice" comment, I've been searching around for a "flag as offensive" button for the comments section.
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
No worries. I know these conversations can get heated and
Thank You All
(Celtic Tiger, Janet, Michael Jensen, Evan) for your support in this unfortunate spat with iloathesluts. I hesitated initially in responding to his comments (because I suspected I was leaving myself open to attack), but felt I could not take his bitter, intolerant attitude to certain people in our community without expressing my opinions in as civilized a fashion as I could muster. Sadly unbeknownst to him, I was a potential allie of his, if he had only listened carefully to what I was saying. I was appalled when I first came out years ago (1986) in the blatant or underlying racism that existed in our community. I guess I was naive, racism is a scourge of the human race and is not isolated to straights (and contrary to popular belief in some areas not a problem unique to Caucasions).
Near the end of the arguments I was starting to lose my temper that is why I decided to terminate the conversations (I did not use Sayonara to provoke him, I could have used Adios or as JustinAndrews can testify "G'day"). Well it has been quite a return to Afterelton after spending 10 days on Grand Manan Island ("Island Paradise for Lesbians" according to a gay tourist magazine I picked up on Pride weekend). This morning after reading his comments I was tempted to buy a plane ticket back to the Cottage and get some more TLC from the Christian Fundamentalists! Although I disagree with where their heads are at re. gays, I often find on a one-on-one basis their hearts are in the right place. My mom's best friend was concerned that I had lost so much weight (I am HIV+), but my mom assured her it was because I work out every day! I was very touched by her concern, and she gave me a very affectionate hug when I left.
Well that is all the "rambling" for now (as iloathesluts would say).
Cheers
JBE
Five Stars
You are welcome JBE....
...and I suspect you have many more supporters out there. I'm just sorry this caused you stress. I always feel awful after an altercation of flaming or whatever even in the anonymous world of the net. A lovely actor once told me "never under-estimate the impact your words have on others". He was responding to some shy praise I had given him. He, in turn, changed my world with those words.
If you can't be a good example, then you'll just have to be a horrible warning.
Any time, my friend
I had read some of his posts on other threads and found them inflamatory to say the least (I replied to a few of those as well). I have zero tolerance for racism and could not sit by when he was attacking someone simply because they disagreed( or in your case JBE, agreeing with him on certain points) with his opinion. I even sent a message to Brian to see if anythng could be done about his venomous rantings, though they already had the situation under control (cheers Brian and Michael). I thought your replies to his comments were very civilized considering the insults he hurled not only at yourself but your partner who wasn't even part of the discussion. Far more civilized than I would have been had not Michael remedied the situation. I also have a low tolerance for those that set themselves up as the pinnacle of morality, as most of those foundations are built on quicksand. It was a joy to watch him sink.
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
I'm new here but I've been
I'm new here but I've been lurking for many months and have found the discourse to be interesting and more importantly civil. I'm sorry this episode broke the calm but, fortunately, the moderators acted judiciously.
If JBE likes Asian men than he has good taste. I'm an Asian woman so I know how stunning men in my race are. =) The issue of racism is complicated that it can't be reduced to if you don't support Isaiah Washington then you're a bigot or if you think John Barrowman is sexy then you're giving in to the White fascist powers. I've experienced racism, including physical assaults, from Blacks, Whites, Latinos, and even different ethnic groups within my race. It's not a black/white issue anymore, no pun intended.
Most of all you can't be bitter and direct hatred against those merely because they benefit in some way from an unequal society. If I did this I'd have to hate everyone and lose out on friends and allies. You have to aim for the unjust system and be constructive. JBE as an HIV+ man you have an entirely different set of challenges and discrimination many of us will never encounter and salute your courage in the face of a daunting disease and your kindness of heart. It's terrible for anyone to assume you live complete privilege because of your race.
I'm not gay but I fully support the LGBT community because 1)with many gay, lesbian, and two transgendered people who've helped shape me it was important I give back, 2)no movement is effective or has moral authority if it hates and seeks to supress another, and 3) there are so many gay and lesbian Asians in progressive causes and marginalizing them means neutralizing the goals. I enjoy this site because it of its positive tone and its featuring of out entertainers, who don't get much coverage in the mainstream press. Keep up the good work. Hopefully the post wasn't too boring.
Kudos
Well said. Don't be a stranger. Looking forward to reading more of your posts.
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
Gwen don't be shy
your post was very articulate and well thought out. Your discussion regarding racism I found particularly interesting. Working in one of the world's most diverse cities (Toronto) I find that race is a point of conflict at times, but ethnicity and religion are just as important if not more so. I once had to manage a female Hindu employee and a Moslem male (also religious) employee. From day one I could sense the tension, much more so than any issue I have encountered between black and white.
My personal point of view is that virulent tribalism is a better description of the negative dynamics that can go on in a society that is increasingly mobile and multi-cultural. Racism is one way that virulent tribalism can manifest itself, but tribes can also be formed according to gender, ethnic group (think of the Balkan countries), religion, and yes even sexual orientation. What do I mean by virulent tribalism? It is a belief that my group (whether it be gay or straight, male or female, Christian or Moslem) is better than your group, more deserving of respect than your group, and I demonstrate that by consciously (or systemically) oppressing you to make sure my group gets the lion share of the spoils. I am pragmatic enough to know we will never achieve my utopia, that people realize that everyone of us is unique, valuable, lovable and worthy of respect, but at least we should have it in the back of our minds as an ideal in guiding our daily interactions with each other.
I thank you for your comments regarding my courage and kindness of heart, although I am not sure I can take full credit for these qualities. Am I courageous? Well if looking after myself physically, emotionally and mentally while dealing with being gay and HIV+ is courage then so be it, I just felt I never had a choice in the matter. Furthermore, every GLBT that is posting on this site and living their lives to the best of their ability is courageous. I have always reacted with anger when people imply that GLBT people are weak, if they only knew what it takes on a day to day basis to accept who you are and live a productive, loving life. As for my kindness of heart, part of that was a conscious decision by me not to become bitter or full of self-pity over my HIV status (for the record I always practiced safer sex and was not very promiscuous so the diagnosis came as a big shock) but alot of the credit goes to my partner who has been patient with me and given me so much love over the past 10 years. Loneliness can be a terrible burden at times and can embitter even the best-intentioned souls.
Cheers
JBE
Thanks for the warm
Thanks for the warm welcome.
JBE, I consider anyone living with HIV/ AIDS in a society that stigmatizes it along with being in a marginalized group and to do so with productivity and a positive attitude as courageous. Although you live in a more tolerant country I doubt it's utopia and you do face your own set of obstacles. Bitterness is an easy pill and a cheap rationalization for doing nothing and it's much harder to be constructive.
Your analysis on tribalism is quite accurate in many ways and I'd like to add insularity as a dynamic within that concept. Insularity leaves those in a group isolated from potential allies and leads to pessimism and fear bordering on paranoia. This has caused many to support regressive ideals.
As an example I know many Jewish people who were frightened over the rise of the Christian right in American politics and the growth of Middle Eastern terrorism, which aims at the destruction of Israel and its Jewish population. Against their more liberal principles they're hesitant to publically question the state of Israel's policies and even donate to conservative organizations. When every group does this it stalls needed radical reform.
Early on I decided to study the histories of labor, feminism, anti-racism, and gay movements. First to do so is inspirational and give brilliant strategies for other causes. Secondly it provides a fuller picture of reality so as not to begin scapegoating. That's why I bristle at the "jews own the media" or the "gay mafia" canards because both obscure the real struggles of two groups within the power structure.
Lastly I wanted to thank the staff and the members for maintaining and fostering a sense of positivity I find lacking on some gay-related sites. I, especially, cheer the ongoing promotion of out actors. I keep hearing that nothing will ever change until an A-List actor comes out but that's not where true progress begins. John Barrowman being a lead in a sci-fi show with an adoring female following is more important than the identity of "Toothy Tile." Neil Patrick Harris portraying a womanizer without anyone batting an eyelash is more important than actor X giving hints about his sexuality in an interview. TR Knight securing $125,000 per episode plus a cut of Grey's Anatomy's profit, a deal in itself hailed by industry experts as lucrative, is more important than actor Y spotted walking with his alleged boyfriend. Keep up the good work.
Advocate/Out's blog with a little more about this interview