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Lance Bass will be "Dancing With the Stars"
Tom Bergeron appeared on Good Morning America today to announce the final cast for Season 7 of Dancing With the Stars, joking that he had been "drinking all night" in preparation for the big announcement. And as had previously been rumored, gay pop star Lance Bass is among the dancers for this season, making him the first openly gay man to compete. Whether the show will push the envelope further by pairing him with a male partner remains to be seen (he is currently paired up with a new female dancer, Lacey Schwimmer, but who knows what they might pull as the competition advances). Here's the full list: Lance Bass There are 13 contestants, an odd number for the first time. And 7 of them are men. This season also features the oldest competitor ever (Cloris Leachman) and the youngest ever (Cody Linley). Stars premieres on ABC September 22nd. Submitted by on Mon, 2008-08-25 08:05. |
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Oh My God!!!!!!!!!
Lacey!!!!!!!!I can`t believe my eyes!!!!!!!She is one of my favourite on SYTYCD S3!!!!!!!!!!
I`m so rooting for her & Lance!!!!
well, this show has now automatically "jumped the shark"
haha...
amusing.
I would rather see lance dance with a woman than a man. to have him dance with a guy simply because he is gay is just plain stupid and immature to me. no need to change anything based on someone's sexuality.
Stupid and immature?
"Stupid and immature?" Really Liz? It's stupid and immature for men to dance together? Your reasoning escapes me. "Stupid and immature" Huh?
I second that.
oh geez...
hmm....I can see i obviously worded it wrong. oh man...but whatever...let's try this again.
i guess in my eyes, just to hook up someone up with a person based on their sexuality is...well....not needed. when i go to a club or whatever, i don't wanna dance with a woman all the time simply because i am gay....and i dont want others to feel "oh liz, you must dance with annie...since she's a woman and you're a gay woman..."
i am not saying lance dancing with a man is immature or stupid...but for someone to think "oh we should do this JUST because he's gay".....yes, that to me is a bit stupid. i am not dissing lance. but whatever, you can disagree (along with the others on here) and that's fine with me.
this is how bigots talk
alright fine...
Defending Liz
OK, I have to defend Liz on this one. She worded her point badly (sorry Liz) but she is in no way a "heartlander" (should those of us in Minneapolis be offended by that term?), and there is nothing wrong with the point she was trying to make.
Personally, I'd love to see a man/man pairing, and I'd love to see Lance do it. However, many people, gay and straight alike, see "competitive" dancing as a formalized "art form", with clearly defined male/female roles that have more to do with the movements and ritualization than with any attraction or expression of romantic feelings. If you see it that way, then creating a male/male pairing smacks of gimmicky or artificiality.
There have been a couple of discussions previously on AE about this. In one, I recall a choreographer or dance instructor or someone posting in essential agreement with Liz's point. I didn't find that discussion, but I found another where someone said: "I wouldn't call it homophobic, but isn't it all kind of, I don't know, sexist to think that Lance, because he's gay, would-or-should dance with a man? To me, that sounds like a stereotype, that he could only dance and/or have chemistry with a man." So Liz is saying that, to her, dancing is an art form where part of the form is the maintenance of the male/female roles and the different movements connected to both. To then have Lance dance with a male, i.e., "change the rules", just because he's gay, doesn't make sense to her. Read Liz's first post in that context and it makes perfect sense.
Of course, one can argue that rules are made to be broken, and everything evolves, so why not dance? I like that attitude, but someone who wants to keep the traditional dance "rules" is hardly worthy of being ripped.
yep......
I didn't find that discussion, but I found another where someone said: "I wouldn't call it homophobic, but isn't it all kind of, I don't know, sexist to think that Lance, because he's gay, would-or-should dance with a man? To me, that sounds like a stereotype, that he could only dance and/or have chemistry with a man."
^ The bolded part is the point i was trying to make.
I could agree with this in theory
if say, there were some gay pairings and some straight pairings on the dance floor, then there's no reason why Lance would HAVE to dance with a man, just because he's gay, but since there are NO same-sex pairings and never have been, what you're basically saying is "that he could only dance and/or have chemsitry with a woman".
"However, many people, gay and straight alike, see "competitive" dancing as a formalized "art form", with clearly defined male/female roles that have more to do with the movements and ritualization than with any attraction or expression of romantic feelings."
Well, isn't that convenient? With a man and a woman it's an art form, with two men it's cheap and unnecessary. Do you not see how you're competely buying into the homophobe's argument? There's absolutely no question that dancing involves attraction and romance, even if the dancers themselves aren't attracted to one another, they are without a doubt mimicking seduction and mating rituals. People don't want to see Lance with a man because they think it's icky. Please don't invent other BS reasons for them to trot out.
I'm going to have to take a
I'm going to have to take a remedial writing course or something, since my words seem to always be misunderstood, and people want to attribute to me things I haven't said. (Of course, my own view is that people's biases cause them to read into my words things that aren't there.) How can I possibly be seen as buying into "the homophobe's argument" when I clearly state I want to see a man/man pairing, and I want Lance to be part of that? And later I clearly stated that I like the attitude of moving beyond the "ritualized" idea of a man and a woman. For what it's worth, the attitudes I referenced were from a GAY choreographer or dance instructor in a previous thread.
"Real dancing" may involve attraction or romance, but it need not do so. Some people dance for fun. Certainly, competitive dancing of this type likely involves neither romance nor attraction for any of the participants. It's not "convenient" to say that many people, gay and straight alike, prefer to watch dancing competitions with male/female partnerships. It's just a fact. I didn't say that I myself prefer that. In fact, I'm not into dance enough to have an opinion on that level. But many gay people posting here on previous threads have stated that THEY have that preference. Can you not allow them the freedom of that opinion?
Again, I was not stating my own opinion, which actually is close to yours. I'm explaining someone else's opinion, and defending their right to hold that opinion.
And now
here we are back to disagreeing. :)
"How can I possibly be seen as buying into "the homophobe's argument" when I clearly state I want to see a man/man pairing, and I want Lance to be part of that?"
My comments aren't directed at you, but to the people who's opinions you're clarifying.
"It's not "convenient" to say that many people, gay and straight alike, prefer to watch dancing competitions with male/female partnerships...But many gay people posting here on previous threads have stated that THEY have that preference. Can you not allow them the freedom of that opinion? "
I never tried to prevent anyone from having that opinion, or questioned their right to do so. I just disagree with it, and think that it's homophobic.
Same Sex Dance
When I first think of same sex dance, I think of European folk dance, which like the square dance is most often performed with at least 2 couples. But the Morris Dance can be performed by two men: Extreme Morris Dancing on YouTube. The idea behind Morris Dancing and other combat dances is to incorporate slap, kick and stick (sword) dancing to ridicule rivalry or replicate fighting and demonstrate prowess.
Folk dancing is rather hip in the U.K. (Alternative Morris Dance on YouTube) now that the Punk Rockers are performing folk dance as well as hippies. (Street dancing by Gog Magog Molly at Ely Folk Festival July 2007 on YouTube)
But Dancing with the stars is about Ballroom not folk or dance history. Which means traditionally a male-female pair. Let's not forget that the original Tango was always danced by two men but in contemporary Ballroom the Tango and all other dances are a man and a woman just like Olympic Figure Skating is a man and a woman. I have to agree with Liz, a same sex pairing could cheapen it as a sport or competition. I would love to see a show with all male/male and female/female couples competing. That would be cool. But a single male/male couple might be like a Jerry Springer oddity in the bad way.
I've always dreamt that someday their would be samesex dance categories and figure skating categories, just like there are mixed-double tennis matches.
.
Do you have...
...any links to an old fashioned two man tango? I would love to see that.
But, I agree, with all of the posters that think this particular show probably isn't the place for same sex dancing. How on earth could they possibly be fairly judged if all the other contestants were male/female as it is now done? They even have a bit of trouble judging the male amateurs versus the female amateurs because there is such a difference in the way each gender is supported in the dance. Usually the male dancer is showcasing the female dancer, so when the male dancer is the amateur, it is simply showcasing the professional dancer who is not actually being judged on his or her dancing but on the choreography and how well they have trained their partner.
I would love for them to do a whole show or series with same gender couples where they could be fairly judged for the innovation and interpretation of dances to same gender. It would be so entertaining and challeging for the professionals to come up with ways to deal with the old traditions with new methods. I love the idea of them trading the lead back and forth throughout the dance. That would take great skill and would be so sexy and fun to watch.
I say we take the warning labels off everything and let nature take it's course.
How gay is the Tango? Totally
Clichés about Tango Origins of the Tango
I didn't search for an example of men doing the original tango, because I didn't expect that anybody does that Tango any more. The tradition of men doing the dance together hasn't died out in the gay community of Argentina where it's seems to be somewhat spectacular.
The above link is an interesting "History" which tries to offer scholarly explanations of the misconceptions of the origin of the Tango while still maintaining a high level of homophobia. One of the "Clichés" that Christine neglects to point out is that where ever there is a "short supply" of women, prisons and the wild frontiers, same sex couples are prominent and accepted. Like a lot of straight women, she seems to believe that if there are 10 men to 1 woman, that indicates that 9 men will never know love or intimacy, which is the real Cliché. She also misses the fact that many poor gay men wishing to escape the purgatory of mandatory marriage would be drawn to creating a new life in places like Buenos Aires in the 1850s. Besides the clergy, there were few jobs offered to us back then.
It is possible that the rich, latin dandies who brought the Tango to Paris in 1910 were gay, considering the gay underground culture that was flourishing there at the time. In it's prancing manner and origins it reminds me of Vouging, another Male/Male dance that I would love to see on a show like Dancing with the stars but only if they did it between two men. Two gay men.
The Tango has surely evolved from it's origins in the mid 19th century but I question if that original dance was ever danced between a man and a woman back then. Men and women did dance together in the 1850s in Buenos Aires but did they use the same dance that Men/Men did, namely the Tango? The original dance was never recorded in any way, of course, and the history of it's evolution is sketchy.
All links below are links to YouTube vids.
(a Milonga is a Dance or Dance hall for Tango)
An interesting reading of a Feminist's dissertation on the Tango where she mentions that straight men today will dance together at a Bar-B-Q in order to mock women.
If you follow the YouTube links you'll find her second section mentions gay Milongas.
Performing Gender: Tango in the Milongas of Buenos Aires
Argentine Tango exhibition in Tokyo
Lalo & Luis #1
One of the most sensual stylings of the Tango you will ever see. If you're curious why people go gaga over this dance, look no further.
Lalo & Luis #2
If you only watch one of the video links provided, watch this one. Bloody hell is right.
Two Handsome men dancing at a street event.
Argentine Tango Augusto and Miguel
I love these boys
Augusto Balizano y Miguel Moyano
The same couple. They show the imbalance of Ballroom pairings, the follow (the smaller man) needs to be much more athletic.
Ave. de Mayo on May 24, 2008 at this street festival in BA
Looks like Augusto and Miguel
QueerTango Café: Fund Raiser for Tango Con*Fusión
This dance explors switch lead
Debbie Goodwin and Pier Voulkos have a women's, Tango dance company Tango Con*Fusión, I believe they are located in California, but it's hard to say from their info.
palabras tango oblivion
LGBT Argentine Tango
Castro Street demo provided by A Little Tango who offer instrution to the GLBT community.
Ballroom is big in Japan.
In case you didn't know.
Also Rans:
In looking further into this I ran across a couple links I'd like to share.
how to seduce a straight man
I think this is a commercial for a stupid porno, but it is safe for work and kinda cute.
Nazi fetishism
I know this doesn't belong here, or maybe any where for that matter. But I found it and want to pass it along. Nazi soldier fetishism slide show set to a period Tango which I believe has a gay subtext. The crazy things people will do in their spare time. And yes, I wish I had every one of these photos in my collection.
.
You can also search YouTube: Tango Gay.
There are too many to list.
Wow, Nukely....
...all I can say is...ask, and ye shall receive! Thanks! These are great. Now I really want to see a show dedicated to same sex dance. (or nip on down to Argentina)
I say we take the warning labels off everything and let nature take it's course.
Gay Tango Links
I came up with a few more gay tango links and vids
Miguel y Augusto
The Faery Godfauthers of Gay Tango after that unfortunate accident with the bottle of peroxide and elephant bells.
Augusto figures prominently on this Gay tourism promo.
Gay Lesbian culture - tourism in Buenos Aires
Miguel y Augusto dot com Has some great photos of the couple. And of course the video's are better than what I found on YouTube.
Augusto Balizano, earned his graphic arts degree in 1997, he is the codirector of the dance troupe Propuesta 5. He teaches Tango classes at Lugar Gay (Gay Place) in Buenos Aires as well as dancing in theater. The couple are the first professional gay tango partners. In 2006 they made their first international tour together to England and Germany, appearing and giving classes in the cities of Bristol, Cardiff and Bath in England and in Berlin, Germany.
Miguel Moyano began ballet dancing at age 9 in Cordova and in 1997 joined the Argentine Ballet of Julio Bocca, which toured internationally in America, Europe and Asia. He began stuying Tango in 2004. He is presently with the Ballet Teatro Argentino of the city of Plata and Propuesta 5.
They have represented Milonga La Marshall in Tango exhibitions. La Marshall was the first gay milonga, and offer a class open to the public on Wednesday At 10:00 pm followed by a dance, $10.
There seems to be at least a half dozen Milonga's that offer queer classes according to Festival Internacional de Tango Queer en Buenos Aires.
Tango Queer is the gay Argentine Tango club.
the Brothers Macana
Macana means lie or fib. They Dance a caricature of the tango, though I wouldn't know the difference, Of course only the best dancers can mock what they love and these guys are fantastic. But I did find one forum post that joked that Miguel y Augusto's stage Tango was a caricature. Meanies even in the Tango world.
search: -Miguel y Augusto- at YouTube and you'll get about 100 hits of them dancing.
Propuesta 5 at "La Marshall"- Claudio y Fernando
.
How funny that everyone is
How funny that everyone is listed with a disclaimer saying what they are famous for except for Kim Kardashian. She's just... there.
To quote Joel McHale: "Kim Kardashian, who's famous for having a big ass and a sex tape..."
Not getting why having Lance dance with a man
"simply because he is gay" is stupid. Would "simply because he is more likely to dance with another man in real life" work for you? Of course I've never understood why the pairs in pairs skating have to be opposite sex. Realize that was sent up in Blades of Glory but it seems that there is a lot more that two individuals with similar size and upper body strength could do than just imitate a traditional couple. Modern dance seems to get this, there have been some great male/male pairings.
Nous Sommes Tous Sauvages.
Total agreement HapNStance
I love seeing men dance together. I've seen great pairings in Modern and actually one of my favorite scenes is from the otherwise unwatchable movie "Valentino" where Nureyev tangoes with another man.
I wonder how old Liz is--"stupid and immature", I'm still kind of stunned.
hi there....
Lance, Lance, Lance
Cloris and Susan Lucci can't be forgotten
Kim K is a "gay icon"?
Says who? What the hell has happened to our standards if this is true? Shouldn't "icons" have a sliver of talent or even personality?
Liz, I get what you're saying I guess, but I think it's a HUGE cop-out not to have Lance dance with a man. Basically it's the old "we'll accept you as gay as long as you don't actually do anything gay" B.S. I really wish Lance had refused to participate. I know I won't be watching.
"Whether the show will push the envelope further by pairing him with a male partner remains to be seen (he is currently paired up with a new female dancer, Lacey Schwimmer, but who knows what they might pull as the competition advances)." That seems rather...optimistic. The show has never had anyone switch partners mid-competition and there's no reason to believe they would now.Go Lance
We're getting down to the finals and Lance is still there. I'm voting for him not because he's Gay but because he's good....OK well maybe a little bit of it has to do with him being Gay. I'm just so proud of him for being out. When I come out to people at least I don't have to do it on the national stage and to the media....although sometimes it feels like that. Brave men like Lance, Clay and Neil Patrick Harris are making it easier for the rest of us.....and also women like Ellen, Rosie,ect. I've loved these people before and I love them now....but not anymore than I did before. Sexuality is slowly becoming not so much of an issue anymore.
Go Lance
We're getting down to the finals and Lance is still there. I'm voting for him not because he's Gay but because he's good....OK well maybe a little bit of it has to do with him being Gay. I'm just so proud of him for being out. When I come out to people at least I don't have to do it on the national stage and to the media....although sometimes it feels like that. Brave men like Lance, Clay and Neil Patrick Harris are making it easier for the rest of us.....and also women like Ellen, Rosie,ect. I've loved these people before and I love them now....but not anymore than I did before. Sexuality is slowly becoming not so much of an issue anymore.