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Pop! Quiz: Does "Milk" deserve a Best Picture Oscar nomination?
So far this week we have celebrated Martin Luther King's birthday, the inauguration of a President, the 500th episode of The Colbert Report, and the fact that we, as Americans, no longer need to pretend to be Canadian when we vacation in Europe. But for those of us living with our heads in the fabricated floss-and-hot-glue clouds of Hollywood, the real excitement this week arrives when the Academy of Motion Pictures Arts and Sciences announces the nominations for the 81st Academy Awards tomorrow morning. For us gays, the biggest opportunity for a bump in visibility in this year's awards of course lies on the adorably ropey shoulders of Sean Penn, whose portrayal of Harvey Milk in Milk is pretty much a lock for a nom. But when it comes to the film's broader merits, gay audiences have been divided, leading us to today's Pop! Quiz question:
A few points to consider and the poll, after the jump. IMHO, Milk does deserve a nod, but not necessarily because it's a truly great film. It's a good film, and considering the dearth of worthy competitors this year (Wall-E, The Dark Knight, Slumdog Millionaire and Benjamin Button are really the only films on par, if you ask me ... eff you, Revolutionary Road!) I think it merits a slot. Aside from the squeaking-in odds for a Best Picture nom, the movie's real Oscar potential lies in its star and its script, from out scribe Dustin Lance Black. Now that would be an acceptance speech I'd love to see. We've actually got an in-depth point/counterpoint on the topic in the works, but we thought we'd take your temperature in the meantime ... vote as you see fit! Submitted by on Wed, 2009-01-21 15:53.  Affirmative Action Feel?Submitted by
Terence Steiner (268 points) (66 posts) on Wed, 2009-01-21 18:56.For me the winner for "the worst affirmative action sequence in a movie" this year should go to the "Dancing Queen" sequence from Mamma Mia. Using "Dancing Queen" as a feminist anthem was a "really stretching it" idea - basically trying to place some substance to the froth.
 Then you clearly don't understand...Submitted by
Joseph (7150 points) (1457 posts) on Wed, 2009-01-21 19:31....why women respond to "Dancing Queen." It IS an empowering song.
Then I guess I don't understand...Submitted by
Terence Steiner (268 points) (66 posts) on Wed, 2009-01-21 19:55....why a woman would find it enpowering to hear a song about being a teasing, femme fatale, disco slut. But I could be wrong - in any case I found the sequence to be deadly gratuitious.
So, you would rather women...Submitted by
Joseph (7150 points) (1457 posts) on Wed, 2009-01-21 21:56....stayed at home, cooking and cleaning, bearing children, and being totally asexual? Like many other disco songs ("Hot Stuff," "I Will Survive," "More, More, More"), "Dancing Queen" is an expression of women's independence and sexual freedom in the post-feminist era. This, naturally, is part of the reason that many straight men rejected the genre, especially straight white men, due to the music's roots in black and gay clubs. "Dancing Queen" is a song that is, essentially, in the same tradition as "Lili Marlene," "You Don't Own Me" and "Son of a Preacher Man."  Exactly!Submitted by
giovannif7 (1699 points) (358 posts) on Wed, 2009-01-21 23:21.It's always bugged me that if a straight man (or a gay man, for that matter) hits on a bunch of women (or men) and sleeps around, he's considered a stud, someone to emulate. If a woman does the same thing, she's called a big slut? Now there's an enlightened POV. Maybe it's just the fact that I have five sisters, but I've always enjoyed pop culture entries (songs, movies, TV shows) in which women take the initiative and make their own choices in social and sensual/sexual situations. It's only fair!
Not Exactly!Submitted by
Terence Steiner (268 points) (66 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 00:59.Has anyone really read what I first wrote? I can understand your views that "Dancing Queen" is a song about sexual freedom and expression. But in the movie Mamma Mia it became this unnecessary feminist tract that made a mindless, inane movie even more ridiculous. The song was performed with women of all ages dancing on a dock and when the song was finished they all jumped into the sea. In fact while I was watching the movie my first reaction was they were jumping to cleanse themselves from being the "Dancing Queen", but soon realized that interpetation was probably too deep for the movie. And that I should just accept that it was the best ABBA song which could be used in a sequence that praised womanhood.
I read every wordSubmitted by
giovannif7 (1699 points) (358 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 02:53.of what you first wrote - you bestowed your "Worst Affirmative Action Sequence In A Film" award to the "Dancing Queen" musical number in the film Mamma Mia! You believe that they took a frothy disco number and tried to turn it into a feminist anthem of substance. If that is correct (I apparently have trouble reading between the lines of what people say to figure out what they actually mean upon occasion), I disagree. When I saw the "Dancing Queen" number, I thought they did a wonderful job with it. To my view, it works simply as a joyful celebration and a fun musical number - and judging by the whoops and applause from the audience I was in, that's how most of them felt as well. One of my favorite things about Dancing Queen and most of ABBA's music (as well as a good percentage of disco music) is that it's all about joy and fun - no underlying socio-political agendas. I know I always appreciate a short break from having to worry about the big issues and problems facing the world. This number got me to smile, hum along and feel the joy of the onscreen performers. Sometimes jumping in the water is just jumping in the water. Subjectivity apparently also applies to fun. Art should always be subjective,Submitted by
Terence Steiner (268 points) (66 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 10:53.and we need to always respect that one person's joyful celebration might be another's soiciopolitical claptrap. I'm sure, giovannif7, that there are many movies that both of us love and cherish. It would be sad if Mamma Mia turned us into enemies.
Enemies?Submitted by
giovannif7 (1699 points) (358 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 18:10.No worries - I can't imagine how sad life would be for those who fill their enemies list with people who disagree with their opinion of a pop song or dance number. Life would be incredibly boring and predictable if everyone's tastes were exactly the same - I try very hard to always emphasize that any opinion I express is just my opinion. This is the specific type of situation for which the phrase "agree to disagree" was coined.
 I loved Slumdog! It was oneSubmitted by
Randommer (1155 points) (240 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 07:56.I loved Slumdog! It was one of the best films I've seen in a long time. I really enjoyed Milk as well, but it's up against some very strong competition. Oscar has a history of 'righting past mistakes' though, which could bode well for Milk, though I'll be disappointed if it wins above some of the more deserving films.  I didn't misunderstand it, I just didn't like itSubmitted by
Alonso Duralde (995 points) (706 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 14:28.I'm all for campy and frothy, Brent, but the execution of Mamma Mia! was horrendous, from the dreary cinematography to the wretched acting (by everyone but Meryl Streep) to the awful pipes of Pierce Brosnan. Had it been the candy-colored confection they were clearly shooting for, I would have been the first to champion the movie, but it's an ugly, forced, overdone mess. "Fuh ME, anyway," as Twiggy used to say on ANTM.  Straight opinions on MilkSubmitted by
Chris (95 points) (27 posts) on Wed, 2009-01-21 19:10.Who has straight friends/relatives who saw Milk, and what were their opinions? I'm curious about this because I've actually heard more negative reviews of it from this site than from anywhere else. My mother, who lived in San Fransisco for a number of years, adored it and kept wanting to talk with me about it for days after seeing it.  My opinionSubmitted by
atweaver (365 points) (69 posts) on Wed, 2009-01-21 21:57.
is that it is an excellent film. I only got into gay rights a little over 5 years ago and had no idea who Harvey Milk was or what Stonewall was. I learned about both on a trip to San Francisco.
From what I have learned in the last 5 years, the movie was pretty accurate in it's protrayal of Milk.
I saw it with another straight woman (who has a gay son) and we both loved it. I have never been much of a Sean Penn fan, but he did a wonderful job. I have watched the documentary about Milk and Penn really seemed to capture the personality of the person in the old news clips.
One young gay friend of mine said that he now has much more respect for what the gays of that time went through.
Can miles truly separate you from friends? If you want to be with someone you love, aren't you already there? --
 This straight girl loved itSubmitted by
Madeleine (1779 points) (363 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 00:10.I walked out of the movie theatre feeling inspired. Milk made me want to change the world, and gave me the hope to believe that was really possible. That to me is what makes a great movie; something that stays with you after the credits are done, something that you carry with you. On a purely technical level, I thought Milk was really well put together. The casting was great, and I thought every actor shone in their role, but especially Sean Penn. The costume and set design were amazing, and I quite enjoyed the visual appearance of the film. Milk was about a man and his struggle that happened way before my time, but it has a message that is still relevant to the fight I am part of today. When Brokeback Mountain lost to Crash, I was heartbroken. Crash is indeed a fantastic film, but Brokeback Mountain was revolutionary; it dared to go where no film had gone before. Milk is continuing that legacy, and it is that bravery and uniqueness that I feel make Milk deserving of the Best Picture Oscar
I may be straight, but I'm not narrow.  My Straight Friends...Submitted by
Anthony D. Langford (7496 points) (1638 posts) on Wed, 2009-01-21 19:38.Loved it. Couldn't stop nattering about it. Didn't get why I didn't love it. Then they question whether I was really gay. But then, they always do that. LOL!
 It deserves it and will probably get oneSubmitted by
dback (1757 points) (360 posts) on Wed, 2009-01-21 20:35.It's hands-down the best film I've seen of the front-runners, though I haven't made it to "Frost/Nixon" yet. Major critic's awards for Best Picture on the East and West Coasts, plus nods from the WGA, the DGA, and the Producer's Guild all bode very well for it. I can't think of a reason besides blatant homophobia that it wouldn't be up. It won't win, of course. Everyone seems to be jumping on the feel-good-about-poverty-crime-and-kid-mutilation-and-money bandwagon of "Slumdog Millionaire." Sure, a movie that's more than 50% in a foreign language has never won Best Picture, but the Academy would rather break 80 years of tradition than reward a gay-themed movie. But at least "Milk" will join the ranks of the great films that SHOULD'VE won in retrospect, which put up against the Oscar's Best Picture choices often looks a hell of a lot stronger.
 Mild Devil's Advocate...Submitted by
calacarando (270 points) (54 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 00:31.I have to admit a certain degree of curiosity--how many gay-themed movies have won a Best Picture Award? Why would giving one to a movie that's over 50% in a foreign language (by ... minutes of dialogue? seconds?) be breaking with tradition any more than giving one to a movie with an out gay protagonist? I mean, I liked Milk. It was an entertaining and informative biopic, and a damn good story. I also enjoyed Slumdog, especially as a Bollywood-tinged fantasy set in a close approximation of the real world, as seen by Danny Boyle. (The way that Jamal's life fit exactly into the questions asked on the show? Fantasy. If there were any question of this, the Bollywood musical number over the cloing credits confirms it, really.) Ultimately, Slumdog Millionaire is no more "feel good about poverty, crime, kid mutilation, and money" than Milk is "feel good about this gay guy getting shot." In both cases, it's more feel good despite, not about. They are different approaches to facing obstacles in life, overcoming adversities, and giving hope. At heart, there is more similarity to the pictures than some people would admit. That said, I'm just glad not to be a voter. Both are well-told stories and well-made movies. Milk gets points for being true. And ultimately, as the Monkey says, it's all subjective. Gar vethed e-chunen; go hon bedithon na meth.  NoSubmitted by
Dee (424 points) (106 posts) on Wed, 2009-01-21 21:44.The movie wasn't that good. Loved Sean Penn's performance, but the movie, not so much.
 "Milk" is in no way shape or form a "feel-good movie"Submitted by
David Ehrenstein (7805 points) (1725 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 18:29.And that's why it doens't have a chance in hell of winning Best Picture. I'm sure one of the reasons why (smart) gay-friendly straights enjoy it is that it's about three-dimensional characters a history that has never properly been told anywhere else. Those gays looking for a cheap cry (ie. Brokeback fans) loathe it. Slumdog is indeed a "feel-good-about-poverty-crime-and-kid-mutilation-and-money" WowSubmitted by
giovannif7 (1699 points) (358 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 19:31.yet another putdown aimed at Brokeback fans from you... what a shock. That's not getting tired at all. I guess denigrating the film itself isn't getting you enough attention. For the record, I enjoyed both Brokeback Mountain and Milk, and I agree that Milk won't be any more successful than Brokeback Mountain in winning the Best Picture Oscar.  Could. Not. Disagree. More.Submitted by
 About, well, everything. But I'll refrain from personally insulting you, which is a trick you should try.
Read my books! Explore "Brent's Brain" at http://www.brenthartinger.com Average (1 vote):  If you are sayingSubmitted by
Nukely (3426 points) (1195 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 22:30.That Milk is an more of an intelligent, thoughtful film and Broakback Mountain is more of an emotional film, I would have to agree with you there and that an emotional film may have a broader appeal to the Oscar voters.
I actually loved "Brokeback" AND "Milk"Submitted by
dback (1757 points) (360 posts) on Thu, 2009-01-22 21:11.However, if I want a love story with a happy ending, I'll watch "Big Eden" or "Latter Days," and if I really want to be blown away by a brilliant, brilliant film that arouses, fascinates, disturbs, AND amuses me, I'll watch "Mysterious Skin." What a luxury that we finally live in a time where we have so many options and so many of them easily attainable, compared to when I was coming of age in the 80's and you got maybe ONE gay-themed film a year. (However, "Kiss of the Spider Woman" "My Beautiful Laundrette" "Maurice" "Law of Desire" & "Prick Up Your Ears" were a helluvva run!) Glad you brought up "Latter Days"Submitted by
David Ehrenstein (7805 points) (1725 posts) on Fri, 2009-01-23 19:40.It was a really sharp, refreshing, smokin' hot little "sleep" when it came out. But now in light of full-scale Mormon attacks on us its downright (dare I say it?) militant !
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I really don't understand the "Milk" dissing
Is it because it's about things that happened before you were born? Is it because it's not a four-hankie weepfest like Brokeback Mountain ? I don't get it.
Biopics are very hard to do, and Milk is a superior one, delivering both a man and an epoch.
As for winning I'd be really surprised if anything can stop the Slumdog Millionaire juggernaught.
Milk is worthy
While I think Milk isn't a masterpiece, it is a very fine film that is vibrantly directed and brilliantly acted, and despite some script choices that didn't quite work for me, it's consistently riveting throughout.
It's certainly far more worthy of a Best Picture nomination than the massively overrated The Dark Knight or WALL-E.
Not a dis
I'm not dissing the film, as I liked it very much (I've seen it three times now). And really, saying that it deserves the 5th nomination slot because there are no other films better than it is pretty much saying that it DOES deserve a nomination, but I wanted to point out that it has very, very strong competition and is a bit out of its depth, in my opinion, among the other potential nominees.
For the same reason, I don't feel that Frost/Nixon, Wendy and Lucy, The Wrestler, or Doubt deserve noms - they're all fine films but in my opinion don't stand up against the massive endeavors that were so brilliantly brought to life in the other films I think (hope) will get nods. (But not Reservation Road, which just stank.)
Purely a matter of opinion, of course - I also thought that Titanic absolutely deserved its Best Picture trophy, and it actually DID take place before I was born (unlike Milk).
Titanic
I'm glad to see someone else say that Titanic deserved its Oscar. It's been fashionable to hate on it, but I thought it was the best movie of that year.
And I agree with Joseph above about the Dark Knight being very overrated. Though I thought Heath Ledger's performance was one of the most astonishing I've ever seen.
Suggestion for Titanic lovers
I agree about Titanic and Heath
Like you say, it's very fashionable to hate on Titanic, but it, now, is very much an underrated flim; yeah, the dialogue wasn't the greatest, but when you realize the movie is essentially a thematic and visual remake of The Wizard of Oz, the movie is really quite fascinating. Plus, of course, The Goddess is in it!
And while I thought The Dark Knight was a confused mess of a film, there's no denying that Heath Ledger gave a spectacular performance; such an amazing actor, it's so sad that we'll never get to see him act again. Thankfully, we can appreciate the great work he shared with the world in his short time here.
"Confused mess of a film"
"Milk" is deserving
It deserves a nomination. It's better than standard biopic fare because of the social/historical storyline. It's my favorite film of the year. Personally, I wasn't that taken with "Slumdog Millionaire" or "The Dark Knight", so I am having trouble with the hype around those films.
Sean Penn has earned a nomination and, in my opinion, the Oscar for Best Actor. I think Mickey Rourke's role in "The Wrestler" was method beginning to end. He's replaying his own life. That's supposed to be a stretch of his acting skill? (I've never liked him anyway, but IMO the performance is nothing special for him.)
I'd like to see Brolin, Hirsch or Franco get into Supporting Actor. I am not at all convinced that a posthumous win for Heath is in the cards. There was no denying Peter Finch for Network and he's the only actor who has ever won a posthumous Oscar.
Will "Milk" get a nomination for Best Picture? This is AMPAS - take that for what it's worth. Even if it is nominated, I won't be holding my breath for a win (again, this IS AMPAS).
You'd understand if you paid attention to the comments
"Is it because it's about things that happened before you were born?"
Nope. I was already born and have some memory of the trial.
"Is it because it's not a four-hankie weepfest like Brokeback Mountain?"
I found Brokeback to be mildly offensive (the first sex scene seemed more like rape and their relationship was little more than abusive), beautifully shot, but utterly soulless.
Milk wasn't that great. The subject was great but the execution by the scriptwriters and director was not all that it could be. The final film comes across largely as a high school vanity project. It doesn't attempt to explore Dan White, it relies very heavily on archival footage, the connection between dog poop and the gay ordinance was unclear, etc.
Milk himself is barely two dimensional (where are his infamous outbursts?) while the rest of the characters are even less fleshed out.
Archival footage
I Haven't Seen It Yet, So I Can't Really Say. . .
. . .but given it's nominations and history within the last few years, the Academy is pretty homophobic.
It may get nominations, but it won't win.
Absolutely
Yes it will be nominated and yes it will win. Not only because it is the most deserving and challenging film, but also the Brokeback Mountain defeat + the Prop 8 win = a Milk win. Anyone want to place any bets?
I would take that bet but my
So, Sollasollewmm,
Well....
Yes
Milk is a a very good movie with a strong story and a wondeful ensemble cast. I loved the way it recreated the past and the way it showed a community coming together to change something.
It's better than many of the movies being considered for Best Picture this year, certainly better than Frost/Nixon, Doubt and yes, IMO, Wall-E. (This is one instance where I agree with the Flying Monkey--after about a half hour I couldn't understand what anyone like about Wall-E).
I'm another who didn't get the love for Wall-E
SLUMDOG!
Read my books! Explore "Brent's Brain" at http://www.brenthartinger.com no votes