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Pop! Quiz: Are you thinking about walking down the aisle?
Wow. It's a great week to be a wedding planner in California, let me tell ya. First, Brothers & Sisters has Kevin and Scotty wed in the groundbreaking season finale (leading us to get all kinds of rice-throwy with an article about gay weddings in TV and movies). And now, the California Supreme Court has overturned the same-sex marriage ban (Woo-hoo!), making it the second state in the country (after Massacheusetts) to allow same-sex couples to legally wed. Which got me thinking, and leads to this week's Pop! Quiz ... And as always, feel free to elaborate in the comments! Submitted by on Thu, 2008-05-15 12:59. |
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How about "no for reasons
How about "no for reasons of inability to find Mr. Right"
Jere
...when two opposite points of view are expressed with equal intensity, the truth does not necessarily lie exactly halfway between them. It is possible for one side to be simply wrong.
--Richard Dawkins
Amen Brother!
Exactly!
It's bad enough that all my dearest gay friends have already found thier life partners and I'm stuck back here at the left-overs table, but I don't need to feel like my inability to find a boyfriend is somehow an affront to the cause of equality.
I'm trying OK?!!!!!
Get off my back!
I'm with you dude!
I know all too well what
I know all too well what it's like to be the 5th wheel.
But I think that most people are too self-absorbed to care, either in a good way or a bad way, whether I'm single.
It's hard not to feel like a "loser" in a world seemingly entirely made up of couples. But you're only a loser if you consent to be one.
I feel your pain, but I
I feel your pain, but I doubt that one of the objectives of the gay rights movement is to marginalize those of us who are still single. The objective is to obtain equal rights to marriage. It is not to make marriage a mandatory obligation for everyone.
It's not entirely true though
I've had some furious arguments with some folks in the movement who actually consider things like hate crimes and job discrimination lower priorities than same-sex marriage, which will not (despite what some people imagine) resolve those other issues.
You will note here that none of said we didn't want to get married. It's merely that we haven't got anyone to get married to. Which is a whole different issue.
But there has been a definite push that marriage is the most important gay issue of our time and that if you're not onboard then you're just dead weight. But please continue to send checks to HRC and rest. The new marginalized group in the gay community are the single people who aren't part of telegenic couples that can be promoted as deserving equality.
It does get a little tiresome having our noses rubbed in our singleness all the time as if it somehow makes us less worthy.
Don't get angry with me -
Don't get angry with me - I'm in the same boat as you.
I think that job discrimination & hate crimes are just as important as marriage equality. Not all gays believe that marriage equality is the be all & end all of the movement, even among those who push for it. But that doesn't mean that it's wrong for some to focus on marriage equality.
P.S. I happen to think the HRC is pretty useless too.
However...for the rest of us
But that doesn't mean that it's wrong for some to focus on marriage equality.
The key word in that sentence being "some". For the last several years it has actually been "most" or "all" of the focus that has been put onto marriage equality with little or no interest in anything else.
Also, and let's be honest here, gay culture was already pretty toxic to begin with. We generally already spent inordinate amounts of time judging each other based on looks, fashion choices, wealth and general "fabulousness". Now we're adding "wedded" to the already High School quality of gay community social dynamics and clique membership rules.
For those that wonder, religious beliefs alone don't drive people to join those so-called "Ex-Gay" groups. A lot of people can't handle the pressue of gay life, and our community is not a loving and friendly on the inside as we try to make it look to outsiders. I can fully understand and sympathize with the notion of not wanting to be gay. However I don't believe it can be changed so to me the idea is silly and pointless. But I can see why there are cases of people who have been out for years willingly submitting to these predatory "Ex-Gay" groups because they couldn't handle the snubs, the attitude and all the other baggage they have to deal with within the gay community, to say nothing of what we all get from straights.
The legalization of same-sex marriage, while a wonderful thing, does nothing to address most of our other problems, internal or external. The expectations that it is a magic solution to all our woes is pervasive within the community but not rooted in any kind of fact.
For some of us, this kind of victory is nice to hear about but in truth does us absolutely no good in our own lives. If you were starving would you be happy because you know your neighbor has food? Maybe, if you were a nice person. But I also suspect you'd want some food too.
I completely agree
I completely agree - sometimes we're our own worst enemy.
But just b/c there are some jerks in the community doesn't mean that we shouldn't appreciate & support the efforts of those who seek to obtain equal rights for us. Don't throw the baby out w/ the bath water.
There may be some who believe that the legalization of same-sex marriage will be a panacea to homophobia. But I bet the majority understand that just as the Civil Rights movement didn't eliminate racism, neither will same-sex marriage eliminate homophobia.
But just b/c same-sex marriage isn't a magic bullet doesn't mean it's not worth fighting for.
Of course
But just b/c same-sex marriage isn't a magic bullet doesn't mean it's not worth fighting for.
I don't disagree. But for me, this is little different than when same-sex marriage was legalized in the Netherlands, Spain, Canada, Belgium, South Africa or Massachusetts. It's good news. I am not at all unhappy that it has happened. It just doesn't actually do anything for me, and so again it is not a dancing-in-the-streets kind of moment.
For that matter, even if it were legalized in Pennsylvania where I live (most likely right before Hell freezes over) it still wouldn't do me much good. In all likelihood, it would just end up costing me money as I would now be compelled to add all my gay friends to the list of people I'm likely to have to buy wedding presents for.
But it does, indirectly...
...I say this respectfully, because I, too, am single and feel that there's growing pressure to find that "special somebody"...and, to be totally honest, I agree with most of your comments...just as I've never felt a part of the "mainstream straight" society/culture, I've also never felt truly a part of the "gay community" (whatever that is)...but, having said all that, though you may think that this ruling doesn't affect you directly, it does affect you indirectly...this is my perspective, that as our governments increasingly recognize our humanity and our rights, it gradually tears down that wall of prejudice and fear, not only among our opponents, but also in ourselves...something like this is a validation, and it does affect me, as a human being in this world, and reinforces my assertion that I do have value and am respected.
Check out my blog: http://radicalsexy.blogspot.com/
Have Hope
It just doesn't actually do anything for me, and so again it is not a dancing-in-the-streets kind of moment.
For that matter, even if it were legalized in Pennsylvania where I live (most likely right before Hell freezes over) it still wouldn't do me much good.
Maybe the legalization of same-sex marriage doesn't do you any good now, but when you do find Mr. Right, I'm sure you'll be thankful that you have the option to get married.
BTW, if you think PA is bad, think about how it is for us in Texas. The ONLY chance we have of getting same-sex marriage is if SCOTUS made it legal. And that's about as likely as Scalia not being a total a-hole.
I hear you
As a single guy, I understand exactly what you are saying. But people everywere in the world, gay or straight go through the same thing. Believe me it doesnt get any easier to be on your own if you can marry. Actually, I get even more sad looks, condecending attitudes and attempted fix ups from my coupled friends (that cant) that I would if I couldnt.
As someone who has some experience with this, I can tell you what marriage equality can mean for you. I can tell you what Ive noticed in the 3 years that the marriage law has been in effect in Spain.
First let me say that I agree that making laws to prevent and protect victims of hate crimes and discrimination and punishing those who engage in it is probably more urgent and needed, but they are not more important. The benefits of legalizing same sex marriage are more subtle and less inmediate.
Marriage is really the great equalizer. Its a concept that every single person can understand an relate to. I think that some people cant identify with some issues of gay life because they have absolutelly so idea what it feels like, with marriage they can.
When people are forced to deal with something they dont like, but they can ultimetly understand, it begins to desensitize them and break down their defenses. I know people who were dead set against the marriage law when it took effect and now, even if they dont like that I can marry another man, they now recognize my right to do it.
People on the street are getting the idea that since they cant do anything about it and the world did not end with the breakdown of society, they have to just accept it or simply live with it. Their fears are not materializing, so they are starting to think about it. Of course, not everyone, but its getting to be more common.
Its a process, a slow one, that is really breaking down barriers and helping to achieve acceptance; and it trickles down to every aspect of life and that is helpfull to every member of the community. So it is important.
As of very recently, most spanish gay men dont want to get married or dont feel the need to do it. But most of them will fight with teeth and nails if someone tried to take their right to do so. I would too.
People who are against it need to be confronted with it and every little bit helps. I know its a complicated time, but I am very happy for those who can take advantage of this and also for those who cant, because its a step in the right direction for them to do it in the future. Its a battle that "might" be won, but the war rages on.
Not only am the third wheel...
Options
Don't Get Me Wrong
I support Same-Sex marriage with all my heart and I do hope to get married someday.
It's just that in all the discussions of the issue there does seem to be the assumption that everyone does have a partner, whether spoken, or merely implied.
And for those of us who not only get marginalized because we're gay, but also because we're single, Marriage of any sort gets to be a bit of a touchy subject.
I just asked my lover of 38 years to marry me
and he said "Sure."
Greetings from California, all!
Congratulations!
Congratulations! I wish you and your partner well!
If By Gay You Mean Totally Freaking Awesome, Then Yeah, I Guess It's Pretty Gay
--Des Ark
David, Congrats!
David, Congrats!
If only I lived in Cali
... but my partner of 17 years live in the great state of Ohio which, in all its wisdom, became about the most militant anti-gay marriage state in the union four years ago.
I'm considering moving.
Great decision, poor timing
Screw timing! Timing is
Screw timing!
Timing is just an excuse by some of our "allies" (I'm looking at you, Dems) to PERPETUALLY put equality issues on the backburner. They said the same thing during the Civil Rights movement, & have been doing the same thing to us.
Equality & justice shouldn't wait for anyone or anything.
The Dems can blame the Mass. supreme court all they want for Kerry's loss, but it doesn't change the perception that Kerry ran a crappy campaign. That, how the "liberal media" continually lobbed softballs to Bush, & a dumb American electorate is why Kerry lost.
Anyway, I think it will be much more difficult for the gopers to blame "activist judges" this time - 6 of the 7 Cali supreme court justices were nominated by gopers.
Just becasue 6 of the 7
Just becasue 6 of the 7 were republican appointees has not stopped the right-wing from blaming activist judges. The interesting thing is that, based on a simple civics argument, they don't have a leg to stand on with their argument.
They want the vote to go to the people, but then why do we have a representative government. The legislature in CA voted TWICE to extend marriage rights, but a-hole Governator vetoed it for no other reason than to slow the process down. If the courts rule on it, they say make the legislature decide; if the legislature says yes, the governor says let the courts decide. Now that the legislature and the courts have said yes in CA, those people who aren't happy want to take the role of government away and put it to a popular vote. If that happens, I'm going to be sending money over to CA to help make sure that the people know of the rights at stake. (and, yes, I do see that Schwarz is supporting the ruling and going to fight the ammendment - I just think this could have been avoided had he had the balls to sign that legislation into law)
As for the discussion around being single, one needs to realize that this along with ENDA, a hate-crimes bill, and the repeal of DADT are key initiatives for the community and work is being done on all fronts. This is the most high-profile, though, because it immediately impacts a LOT of people. Because of CAs lack of a MA-like no-crossing-the-state-borders type law, this actually makes it VERY reasonable for people to go and get married in CA and bring the fight back home. Even if you live in PA, OH, or even TX, a CA marriage license is going to be the first step in seeing the recognition of full rights in your state. I live in MN and my husband and I are waiting to see if things go through and licenses start getting issued in a month. If that's the case, we're flying out this fall to get married. In fact, having people with legal marriage licenses will make it harder to pass an ammendment in CA if people realize that they are invalidating rights with their vote.
The 'movement' is a process and one step at a time must be taken. I don't think that other issues are being ignored, and, if you follow the news, you see that efforts are being made. This just happens to be the most visceral for a lot of people AND goes a long way towards legitimizing the equal status of gays in the United States. Don't knock it just because it may not be appropriate for you right now.
Idealism is nice
But we live in the real world dude. Just because you can trumpet notions like "Equality and justice shouldn't wait for anyone or anything" doesn't mean that these statements are true. The world is often an unfair place.
Consider as case-in-point just how much time elapsed between the founding of the United States and full equality under the law for blacks and women.
It is prudent to be mindful of the potential negative consequences of this decision as well as the positive ones. We are, after all, in an election year where the Presidency and Congress are up for grabs. If the Presidency goes to McCain we can expect more judges in the mold of Roberts and Alito being appointed to the SCOTUS and that would virtually guarantee that federal level attempts to prevent this from spreading by keeping DOMA in place would be virtually assured of success. If, God fobid, the GOP were to gain control of Congress during this election or the midterms it could get even uglier.
Also consider that California is a not a 100% done deal, as there is still the ballot measure that is open to question and must be resolved before this ruling is fully secure.
The good news is that this didn't happen during the Summer or Fall. There may be time for the issue to fade from the short-term memory of most Americans in the face of other issues in the campaigns. But don't doubt for a second that conservatives will be hammering on this point to no end!
We need to be fully prepared to deal with any backlash and this is only going to make the elections more heated than they already were. Keeping the issues focus elsewhere, like on the economy and the war, will be pivotal. Let's not foolishly assume that righteousness will prevail here.
Hope is nice too
No one is saying that we're out of the woods as far as Cali is concerned. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't celebrate the importance of today's ruling.
No one is saying there won't be backlash, either. But just b/c there will be major struggles ahead doesn't mean this isn't worth fighting for.
Psionycx, I thought I was cynical. You're making me look like an optimist by comparison.
No one is naive enough to believe that hope alone will win the day. But hope is where it starts.
Hope
Hope only wins wars in history books when people are talking about things after the fact.
In the real world strategy and tactics rule.
It's actually a little annoying the way you seem to think I'm somehow denouncing this court victory simply because I'm not prepared to dance with the Ewoks in the trees.
The news media is already beginning to buzz with the national ramifications of this and the candidates are already beginning to weigh in with their double-talk. It hasn't even been 24 hours yet. Meanwhile, the push for the ballot motion to try and change the California state constitution now has serious impetus to drive it's supporters.
So while I hate to be the bearer of bad news and preempt all the back-patting this is not a settled matter.
A weak memory for history is as much an affliction among American GLBT people as it is with the rest of the country. But some of us remember the debacles in Alaska and Hawaii, which overconfident activists were boasting as done deals at the time. We also remember that the current Democratic spat is only a primary, and that there is still a general election to win.
If McCain wins there are some SCOTUS slots like to come open soon and he'll likely appoint justices like Roberts and Alito. Moderate-looking enough to win through the Senate, conservative enough to vote the way the Right would like them to and young enough to shape the direction of the court for decades to come.
This is a victory in a battle, not in the war. Tomorrow the swords will have to be picked up again and the fighting continue. Call that cynicism if you will. I call it realism. Because history has shown that for every victory in the history books that was won with "hope", there were countless defeats that had hope behind them and still saw failure.
"the Chardonnay Room...."
.....at a low-rent winery up in Napa....I'd be at that wedding! I love this straight man's take on most things- he boils it down to the glaze...
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2008/05/16/notes051608.DTL&nl=fix
And congratulations to all of you that can and choose to get married and to all of you that have that right in the future....
I say we take the warning labels off everything and let nature take it's course.