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Time's annual Mind and Body Issue asks, "Are Gay Relationships Different?"
I got my issue of Time magazine today (because I'm gradually becoming my father) and was curious upon seeing that the issue is dedicated to the "science of romance" whether same-sex relationships would be addressed. Initially disappointed by the various articles' focus on marriage, childbearing and the like and the rather disturbing exclusion of any mention of homosexual relationships of any kind, I was pleasantly surprised to find a standalone piece dedicated to gay relationships entitled, "Are Gay Relationships Different?" The article, by gay journalist John Cloud, takes a decidedly more personal approach to the subject matter than the other pieces in its discussion of whether gay relationships are more stable (or more bound for disaster) than straight pairings. Amidst the studies quoted and theories raised, Cloud discusses his own failed 7-year relationship, which ended in 2006. The article itself is rather remarkable, as I can't remember ever seeing such a personal, well-written and poignant discussion of gay relationships in a mainstream magazine. Cloud is no Pollyanna about his own romantic life or those of gays and lesbians in general, and posits that while recent studies show that straight folks have a lot to learn from gay couples, we could also benefit from taking notes from our hetero friends. And of course he's right. The piece hit especially hard for me, as Andy and I are rapidly nearing the "7-Year Itch" point that Cloud discusses at length in the piece, and I of course want my own relationship to succeed past that damnable benchmark. But the strength of the piece is that anyone, including the older and possibly more conservative readers of Time, can benefit from this very human, very reasonable, and very heartfelt discussion of what makes gay relationships unique, challenging, and beautiful. Of course, it would be nice to see gay relationships included in the broad discussion of all human love and romance, as we are still human, last time I checked. But perhaps being lumped into the other, drier pieces might have not offered the same window into what many real gay couples face. I credit Time for including the piece and Cloud for rising to the challenge with such candor and grace. The article is available online, and is definitely worth the read. And please discuss! Submitted by on Fri, 2008-01-18 16:23. |
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Thanks Brian for bringing
Thanks Brian for bringing attention to this article. Its a very good and candid piece. This one resonates with me too, not beacuse what might happen but because what did. Its weird when you recognize yourself in the words of the writer and his situation and backed up by science, yikes.
Many of the ideas in the article I hold to be true, especially the one of independance (financial, emotional and sexual). First because we are male, we have certain social advantages and like it or not we are hardwired by nature a certain way, and then because of gay culture as a hole. There is always the next one who could be hotter, nicer, etc.
Those whos love and commitment are strong enough might get past that, but the kwoledge we "could" be without the other person makes us ask more of the relationship, demand more of it (hence the longing for that intense heart pounding). But that is exatly why it makes them a lot more honest too, we are more likely to be there because we want to be.
As for the seven 7 year cicle, who knows. My most significant relationship ended ust after 6 year mark and Im telling you I saw myself in Clouds account. But its interesting that it is so prevalent in the human experience.
Thank you again for the link, there are som thing to think about looking ahead.
Interesting Article Brian
Did I see my relationship in this article? Not really, I have as much in common with most gay men as I do with most straight women (not much)! I am that rare gay male, a guy who could have fallen in love with the first guy I met and stayed together with him for the rest of my life. No regrets about the casual sex I was missing, or the other gay men I could have dated. I hate dating new people, always have. I never really liked casual sex, and didn't need to sleep with the next cute guy I met to prove how sexy I was, my ego was big enough as it was (lol)!
Are gay relationsips different then straight ones? Overall I would say yes, but frankly most of the bad relationships I have seen in my life time have been hetero. Any time homophobes talk about how natural marriage is between a man and a woman, and it is superior to a same-sex marriage I want to break out in laughter. Give me a f**king break! I have seen straight couples that ripped each other to shreds, to the point that murder suicide was definitely a possibility.
Where gay relationships run into challenges are when:
- the "f**cking like bunnies" stage is over (usually 3-6 months) and the sex starts losing its' novelty. Communication with your partner is important at this stage to try and let them know that the emotions are still there but you need to start discovering other things about each other;
- buying or sharing a place together and living around each other all the time can be a dfficult time. That is when you start realizing your partner has some irritating habits you did not know about. Also he starts criticizing your habits that he does not like. Guess what, these habits usually persist so get used to them!
- five to seven years into the relationship, no kids, no pets and guess what you can get into a rut! This can be a stage where you start thinking "is this what I really want?" "Is there someone else there for me that is more suitable?" I frankly never went through these stages because I was HIV+ and already in my 40's if my relationship ended that would probably be it, dying alone in my future. So my partner and I tried to be more communicative and caring with each other. This is where males have a problem period, we are not raised to relate to each other in a deep, meaningful, emotional way. It is a slap on the back and how about them Cowboys BS! No tenderness, no discussion of fears or dreams, just vegging in front of the TV playing video games or watching bad reality shows. My partner and I managed to get past that roadblock.
We have just past our 10th anniversay, and frankly I don't think we will split up until one of us (hopefully me) "kicks the bucket".
My ingredients for a successful gay relationship? Compatability, communication, consideration and constant affection. Note I have not mentioned sex, it is important (especially at the beginning) but it is in the long run not the most important aspect.
My apologies about making this comment more about me then the article, but I just could not see a lot of what I have experienced in it.
Cheers
JBE
Of course comparions are difficult
One thing that deserves reiteration is that a major difference exists between gay and straight relationships is that straights can get married, while gays have only been able to do so in a limited number of places and fairly recently.
This makes some aspects of comparison difficult. For example, the article compared gay couples generally to straight married couples specifically. This is not a true comparison because the inherent conflicts involved in getting out of a marriage deters, or at least delays, many straight couples from splitting, as does the presence of children in the relationship. Since marriage and parenthood are not a common element of same-sex relationships the dynamics are different. I wonder what the straight breakup rate would actually be if they couldn't get married?
Excellent points
it will be interesting to do a study like this 50 years from now in Canada when gay marriage has been around a long time. People forget that most gays have only been forming relationships in large numbers for about 30-35 years. Before that they got married, had kids and lived closeted lives. On my softball team this past summer there were three players that had adult kids! They were in their 50's and had come out late in life.
There is one significant difference though. Women in a straight relationship do a lot of the work in trying to bring emotional intimacy into the relationship. Men can be very challenged when dealing with the so-called "softer" emotions. They are not good or comfortable talking about their emotions, especially anything that makes them look "weak". How could they the way they are socialized as kids? Do you remember as a kid hugging another boy and being told "boys don't do that". Or holding your father's hand and then being told as you get older, you are too old for that. Or wanting to talk about what was upsetting you but being told to stop crying and deal with it? I learned very early in life to suppress my so-called negative emotions and deal with them myself.
Things are starting to change though. My brother once told me an amusing story of when he was on vacation. He was talking to an American who had a six-year old son. His son asked his Dad "can we move to Canada?" Why, asked the Dad. "So I can marry my friend Billy." The Father was not upset when he related this story to my brother but was amused (as was my brother who is quite liberal about gay relationships). In an earlier generation the kid would have been scolded or spanked.
Cheers
JBE
Great article. Quite sad.
Great article. Quite sad. I'm gonna end up alone. Semi-joking. Still sad.
Ohhh, dont give up on
Thanks for that. I'm not
Andros you have time
and looks on your side. Although good looks in the gay community can be a double-edged sword. A lot of guys will take an interest in your body but not you initially which can be very disheartening. Good luck in finding a great guy. The only I advice give gay guys about finding somebody to share their life with is to join gay organizations that do not have that initial sexual tension to them (e.g. sports, volunteering, social). You are more likely to find someone who you can relate to and get to know without the pressure to immediately get into bed. Some guys can start a great relationship with a one-night stand but it is frankly a hit and miss type of thing.
And if you become a crazy old cat gentleman, I am sure you will be one of the sexiest in North America :)!
Cheers
JBE
I didn't think the article
I didn't think the article was very interesting.
It was moving, sure, but the generalisations were so large that they didn't make much sense to me.
I don't think a stable relationship has anything to do with being gay or straight. I think it has to do with being lucky in meeting someone you're interested in, and who's interested in you, and then working together to make it work.
All that talk in the article about what straight people can teach us sounds rather stupid to me: they teach us that even with the society-sanctioned marriage and the pressure to stay together that comes with having kids, straight people do break up. A lot.
So, I'd rather try to find ways to make my couple work by thinking about our relationship and not by comparing it to my parents' or my friends'.
François
---------------
http://gaycomicslist.free.fr
Exactly
it is amazing to me in our society that straights screw up their relationships so often while gays in many cases do make theirs work. There are a lot of gay relationships out there that are very successful. On my softball team there was a couple that had been together 23 years, another 17 years. My mom's helper has been with his partner since 1969!
These gay couples blend into society and disappear from the big city mainstream gay lifestyle which is focussed on partying, casual sex and physical appearance. It is also frankly ageist and more so then it used to be. Before 30 was the age to fear now I sometimes wonder if it has dropped to 25! Some gay men get into their heads that their relationships are doomed to failure, their partner will cheat on them, or they will get bored and start drifting apart. Gays face the same challenges as straights in a long-term relationship. They have to sometimes make an effort to make it work! Furthermore, god forbid, they may have to change their behaviour to make it work and evolve as people. Difficult yes, impossible no.
Cheers
JBE
I did think the article was interesting because
it was framed as a gay man writing about gay issues for gay people in a tradtional magazine. That's pretty cool. And I disagree about there not being anything for gay couples to learn from straight couples. I think we bring to the table the idea of relationships being more egalitarian since we're not bound by gender roles and a better understanding of sexuality. (So many of our straight female friends simply do not understand how their husbands think about sex!)
But straight folks can teach us things about staying together when things get a little rough and the benefits of a longterm, committed partnership.
What troubled me about the article was that it was about a failed relationship which again reinforces the idea gay men can't make it work. I haven't read the issue yet, but unless gays were incorporated into other relationship articles in the piece then I think it unfairly represents us. Yes, our relationships do break up at a higher rate than heterosexuals, but how big a surprise is that when we can't get married?
And I do know plenty of gay couples in longterm relationships, but how often do you see that in the media? Which is sometimes our own fault because high profile successful gay couples often try to keep their partners as low profile as possible. David Hyde Pierce anyone. And I think it truly helps to see happy couples who have been together for a long time. Heck, I'm happy to see any couples together which is why I check the NY Times Sunday paper for announcements of same-sex couples getting married or civil partnered.
And I'm one of those lucky enough to be in a successful longterm relationship. Brent and I celebrate our sixteenth anniversary next month and I have to be honest, our relationship has never been a struggle. There were issues to work out early on because we came from such different family backgrounds. I came from a pretty unstable, volatile, emotional family whereas Brent's didn't express much emotion. It took us a while to learn how to argue, but other than that it's never been hard. And, yes, I know I'm incredibly lucky that it's been so easy.
But there are others like us out there and I wish Time had included one of them in the issue as well.
I agree with you
regarding the writer's example, it was unfortunate and does reinforce what I believe is a stereotype that a lot of gay men have bought into. I found his discussion of how gays fight interesting, but did not see it in mine, our fights (rare) are not with any humour what so ever, serious and too the point, Frank communication about the issues that are bothering us. But we do try and solve our issues unlike some hetero couples I have known who would fight about the same things for decades!
I still have not decided whether marriage will make a big difference in how long gay men stay together, it certainly has not helped heteros out that much! I believe gays should be allowed to marry simply because it is an issue of fairness. I personally never want to get married, if I was straight I would feel the same way. The relationship should stand on its' own two feet and not have to be sanctioned. I don't even want to have a commitment ceremony. Reminds me of being commited to a mental hospital or prison. If there is love in the relationship you don't think twice about being "commited" it comes naturally. I cannot imagine being separated from my partner. But that is my own view, I never was a conventional person!
I came from a family that is sort of a blend of yours and Brents. Think of a movie written by Tennessee Williams and directed by Ingmar Bergman and you will get the drift.
I think things will be getting better for gays in terms of long-term relationships, simply because we are coming out earlier, dating earlier, and the young gays are not as hung up about the political aspects of being in a monogamous relationship. Remember the radical gays who thought that being in a monogamous relationship was a form of self-hatred because it indicated you wanted to be straight? What f**king BS that was.
Cheers
JBE
Brent and I had a commitment ceremony and
I'm really glad we did. It was wonderful and fun to get all of our friends and family together to celebrate our being couple. And I think it was great for both of our families to see. We're very lucky in that we had very little homophobia in our families (some, but not that much) and I think by having the ceremony we really solidified the seriousness of our relationship in their eyes. Should we have had to? No. But plenty of parents don't accept their straight children's spouses either and marriage certainly forces them to take those relationships more seriously.
And while I don't think the government has any business regulating who partakes in marriage, I do think the concept of marriage is important. I think it helps stabilize relationships and does give folks a reason to work through problems which there will always be. And I think being married does signal to the world how seriously to take a relationship. Should a business give time off to someone to take care of an ill boyfriend of six months the same way they should to someone who is married? Well, I don't think so (unless they're married of course, but they're also obligated to a host of other things as well.) And marriage doesn't just stabilize relationships, but stablizes societys as well.
BTW, I'm speaking of marriage here in strictly secular terms as in the rights one obtains from the state not any recognition from the church. I just wish Americans were bright enough to get the difference between what a religious ceremony bestows and then flows from the government. But they don't. Oy.
Thank You Michael
for your thoughtful opinions. My partner would agree with you, I guess I am unusual in that I go with my emotions, never have thought that a ceremony helps or hurts. Fortunately my family is very supportive of our relationship (his not quite as much, but they are more religious), and to be honest my partner may be my Mom's favourite in-law!
Cheers
JBE
The issue of representation
The issue of representation wasn't even on my mind. But yes, if the only article about gay relationships is this one, then there's a problem.
I also mostly agree with JBE. The less palatable aspects of gay "culture" make me think that gay people can be as stupid as straight people when it comes to building little non-inclusive environments. Which isn't a surprise, of course.
François
---------------
http://gaycomicslist.free.fr
Just adding another piece
Just adding another piece of information to the topic. I found this article on Reuters about new research an ssame sex couples saying that they “are just as committed in their relationships as heterosexuals and the legal status of their union doesn’t impact their happiness”. What a flash.
Here is the link:
http://uk.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUKN2140631220080122?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0&sp=true
Interesting read.
Interesting read. Thanks.
"But gay and lesbian couples not in civil unions were more likely than same-sex couples in civil unions or heterosexuals who were married to end their relationships, according to the study."
Not surprising but a nice thing to know.