Two Gay Guys are back to discuss two things on many a gay man's mind these days: gay marriage, and the Sex and the City movie.
The guys ask why some people don't see the overturn of the same-sex marriage ban in California as being a big deal, and wonder if their own excitement about it makes them a little bit nuts. Me, I'm wondering what that day-glo substance is in their wine glasses ... but perhaps it's better not to ask.
Check it all out, after the break!
Submitted by
on Tue, 2008-06-17 10:19.
Most perfect parody ever.
i couldn't help but wonder...
Brent, if you're Carrie, does that mean Michael is Big? oh, never mind, I heard you call him Mr. Big-Shot. Nicely done.
So who is Samantha? my guess is Dennis.
visit my personal blog!...NOW!
:-P
The term 'bat crap' is very amusing.
as for gay marriage.....well, the divorce rate for heterosexuals is already an insult to marriage.....so i hope gay people (many who have been with their partners longer than most marriages today) can keep their marriages.
I have said it before, but I am against marriage in general...gay or straight...with that said, I believe everyone still should have the right to make that decision if they want to do it or not.
Michael and I...
the term partner....
interesting you feel that way about that word. I can't stand it when referring to a significant other. I don't know when or why people (gay) started saying that.
I've had girlfriends and I've said "this is my girlfriend" but I have never said partner. I don't have many friends who are in a LTR so I got to wondering if the term partner is mainly for gay couples in a LTR.
I think my issue with the word partner is because to me personally, it doesn't sound like the person is introducing me to their SO….I always immediately think "oh, business partner.." or something along those lines. Since marriage is allowed in CA…I wonder if that'll change….if people will start saying "my husband"/wife instead of partner. Why does partner sound more equal to you? Just curious. Not putting you down. :-)
Partner's are co-equel
Problem with Partner
So I keep thinking of Kevin and Scotty on Brothers & Sisters. Is "partner" a good term for Kevin given his profession? After all, in his usual circle the word refers to someone with whom he works at a legal practice.
Amongst police officers it denotes someone you patrol with. In sports well...
When you use the word "partner" are you referring to your spouse or to someone you play tennis with?
That said, "partner" has become very popular in Europe, even for heterosexual couples, whether married or unmarried. It is true that "husband" and "wife" have historically denoted the superior and inferior roles in a marital relationship. But much of that has faded from people's minds. Today for example few people remember that the "sweet" custom of a father walking his daughter down the aisle to the altar hearkens back to a time when he was quite literally giving away ownership of her to her new husband.
So I have to say that I'm not wild about either the old nor the new terminology.
Our local small city
Isn't that what they say ...
... for every trend that gays begin -- that eventually it's co-opted by mainstream culture?
It reminds me of the song "Cadillac Car" from Dreamgirls -- the blacks have the good music, and the whites take it over "to make them feel as good as us."
In this case, the phrase "coming out" has become a Kleenex or Post-It (generic) sort of term.
Congratulations Brent & Michael!
I am delighted for both of you! As for terminology/nomenclature, you'll work that out.
Brent, you can be Michael's "bat-crap crazy, flying monkey" partner and Michael you can be Brent's "Mr. Big Shot Afterelton Editor" husband. :o)
The important part is that you are, indeed, getting MARRIED - for real. I couldn't be happier for you.
"Bat-crap crazy"
I think a bigger insult to
But one joke about gay marriage always annoys me is the one about the inevitability of gay divorce. It may be a painful experience, but the right to turn to the courts to mediate the division of property and child care is one of the things we're fighting for. Sadly, that's not a right anyone appreciates unless they don't have it.
ah, yes...
that's true. I also think there are a lot of people getting married wayyy too fast...and young.
I don't get the rush of getting married. I know we're in a war and everything, but.....geez...not every man and woman is getting drafted out. mind boggling to me really. EH
Ellen Goodman wrote a column
Congratulations. . .can we
Congratulations. . .can we come along for the ride? . .we'll go halfsies on gas!
More eyeglasses in bed!
Although, to be fair, you were reading, so it's acceptable... Haha!
As for the discussion regarding husband or partner, in my own opinion, partner is for a more business, impersonal, formal relationship. When the time comes, the person I marry will be my Husband, and I his.
And congratulations if indeed you are planning on marrying in California, and it wasn't simply a plot point for the vlog. :)
We are ABSOLUTELY planning on doing it
We expect to see a few of those pictures!
Are you guys taking the plunge?
That is so cool!
Congratulations to the two
Congratulations to the two of you!
Just curious, but what particular green libation were you guys drinking?
Oh, it's this frozen margarita stuff
Congratulations. So happy
There are some great
There are some great straight marriages you know, I've got one.
I agree, partner is the best term to use, it is a bit business like but at least you get equal billing. Husband sound so dominant which is alright if your both husbands I suppose?
My husband/partner is my business partner as well so that's confusing.
Congratulations, and don't forget we want photo's.
Husband it is. . . .
Personally, I want to move toward the word "husband". I've
That sounds like a
That sounds like a persuasive argument.
Good luck - hope it all goes well!
Right on Michael and Brent...
...I love it when guys refer to each other as "husband". It makes it absolutely clear that they love each other and are totally committed. And you guys know where to come for your honeymoon!
I say we take the warning labels off everything and let nature take it's course.
Partner's connotation
If two people remain in a long-term relationship and refer to each other as partners, and people marry and refer to each other as their partners, where's the recognization of their marriage?
It's the seperate but equal is inherently unequal argument in my mind.
I'm not going to have a significant other, a partner. I'll have a boyfriend, a fiancee', and a husband...
An excellent point about "partner"
And one I've been pondering within the context of geographies where same-sex civil partnerships now exist.
Is it appropriate to continue to refer to same-sex couples in places like the UK (or hell, in New Jersey) as "partners" if they are not legally in a civil partnership/union?
Our usage of terms like "boyfriend", "partner" and "husband" have been very loose going back to a time when there was no legal recognition of same-sex relationships anywhere in the world. But now that legal recognition of various sorts does exist is it proper to use some of these terms to refer to people who are not in legally-recognized unions?
For example, you generally do not refer to an unmarried straight man who lives with his girlfriend as her "husband". They are boyfriend and girlfriend until they get engaged at which time they become "fiance's". It is only after they officially tie the knot that he becomes a "husband" and she a "wife".
Gay couples have long used terms like "husband" to dignify their relationships in the absence of legal recognition. But I'm inclined to say that it is no longer proper to do so unless one is in fact actually married.
Of course, this does underline the second-class status of "partners" and those that cannot even get partnerships where they live. So that adds a whole layer of complexity to the mix. Some gay people are also very ambivalent about the use of marriage terms as well. John Barrowman has in the past expressed preference for the term "partner" and a disinterest in a term rooted in a religion that he felt disapproved of his relationship anyway. Not sure if he's still saying that these days.
My God, somebody call Miss Manners!!!! We need help now!!!
Don't know for sure...but I
Don't know for sure...but I was under the impression that Barrowman was using the term partner because the UK only has civil partnerships and not full marriage as yet.
Sorry but I can't point to a source and I could be wrong, just a vague memory I seem to have.
Don't know for sure...but I
Don't know for sure...but I was under the impression that Barrowman was using the term partner because the UK only has civil partnerships and not full marriage as yet.
Sorry but I can't point to a source and I could be wrong, just a vague memory I seem to have.
I think part of this is regional
But now the loaded question...
Is this still proper in those geographies where there is now a legal status of "partnership" and/or "marriage"? Does it cheapen the commitments of those that have made them to have the same terminology used to describe both couples that have actually made a commitment and those that haven't?
I'm being philosophical here (since I don't even have a boyfriend and thus this is a moot point to me) but I do think that this will become a matter of protocol at some point in the future.
After all, fighting so hard for legal recognition, "partnerships" or "marriages", does it in turn devalue them to have these labels applied even to those that haven't made the legal commitment? As noted before, generally straight couples are not considered "married" until they have actually gone and gotten married. In places where there is legal recognition of unmarried heterosexual partnerships it might be legally appropriate to use the term "partners", but "partners" overall is a less loaded term because it has so many other uses.
Lawyers working in the same firm are not "husbands" after all, nor are cops that patrol together nor are athletes or people in a common business. "Partner" has a much broader usage and can therefore be ambiguous. It certainly has seen wider use as a term for couples. I had one very awkward incident where I was talking to someone about my "partner" from work (we jointly managed an operation within our corporation) and doing something or another. The lady asked what it was liking working together with my "partner", at which point (red-faced) I had to clarify my use of the term (especially since he's a straight, married Mormon).
But that's part of what bugs me about "partner" I suppose. It's used in a lot of ways. It's adoption by straights is particularly annoying because it is often used to describe married straight couples (more so in Europe or liberal bastions like Seattle) even though they have a right to marriage that we don't.
How are we going to untangle our terminology?
Let's coin some new terms of endearment
Since many have issues with the terms "partner", "husband", "wife", "spouse" and "significant other", let's coin some new terms of endearment.
How about "yin & yang", "bert& ernie", "oscar & felix", "siegfried & roy"? And for the more cynical..."ball & chain".
I now pronounce you bert and ernie... siegfried and roy... ball and chain...
Spouse for me
Agreed
Husband it is.
One of the reason for fighting this is equality. Isnt it?
Besides, partner has always been to impersonal for me. In spanish we use the term "pareja", which literally translates into "couple", I think its better suited. Its used to describe "a couple" and either member of.
As for all my friends who have gotten married, they refer to their men as husbands.
Now you put it like that I
Now you put it like that I agree with you as well.
Aren't you supposed to be on holiday?
I agree...
..with Michael. Husband hides no meaning like all the other words do. If Michael refers to Brent as his spouse or partner, there is still the possibility of thinking that he is referring to a female or business associate. Husband makes it perfectly clear to the rest of the world.
Now, about that blue and black big stripe shirt, my husband owns it too. Plus, our cat looks exactly like yours. Hmmmmmm.
Oh, and congrats in advance.
I take this man to be my wedded sidekick
afhickman
"It takes a village (to make Village People)"
"Partner" is what Gabby was to Roy. Mate would be good, but then I'd feel like I was channeling Crocodile Dundee. Shouldn't we come up with something more, I don't know, connubial? There are a lot of good "c" words out there to chose from: cohort, compere, coeval, compadre, etc. Of course, my significant other already has a "c" word for me when we're out for a night on the town: Chaperone.
Howdy, pardner!
Ride em, Cowboy!
afhickman
"It takes a village (to make Village People)"
I've heard that Gabby was known as Grabby once the camp fire went out.
You heard right, Hick!
the same-sex marriage is so
the same-sex marriage is so wonderful.because we don't even image it in china.
By the way,I like the sex and the city.
You're writing from China?
Chinese Attitudes
It is a very serious
That's what I thought
That's pretty much exactly what I was told. It's interesting to hear it directly from a Chinese person, however. That's the feeling I kind of got from my two Chinese guys - they liked and respected me, plus I was their manager, a position of authority, and so it was hard to understand that I could be gay. Plus, one of them is a really strong Christian. But as I've said many times, exposure to gay people is the most important thing for changing attitudes. We have a great relationship, and I'm sure they'll never look at gay people the same again.
Based on what you say, it sounds like a good idea to try to get a job in another country. Both Europe and the US would be good choices.
thanks， I think Canada
Welcome QoQo!
It's nice to have you on the boards here. We love having people from other countries around. The perspectives are better when we can compare notes with people from around the world.