AfterElton.com Readers Name Worst Gay Pop Culture Moment of Decade!

Does it surprise me? Not really.

Is it what I voted for? No.

Is the fact that the results are skewed so heavily towards fiction, whatever it's real world implications may be, annoying? To me yes.

Was I upset/confused/annoyed etc that RTD killed off Ianto? Yes, but at the end of the day I will still watch TW if they get a new season and things a lot worse have almost certainly been done in the name of drama.

Because there was a poll for the positive things, wasn't it?

i thought the loss of the oscar for BBM would be the number 1 and then ianto's death second

The title of this article is wrong because the poll asked What was the worst gay/bi pop culture story of the decade?

Key word being "WORST".

I voted for Heath Ledger's death. But I'm not surprised that Ianto won, people don't realise how over the top they get at this site. Personally, I think the worst gay pop culture moment of the decade was when people here, and in the rest of the gay community, said that Ianto's death was homophobic. LMAO. Actually, it should be called the biggest joke of the decade.

No. It started before that. Members of groups devoted into harrassing the BBC regarding bringing Ianto back spread the word to vote for this moment on the poll.

Life's a banquet, and most poor suckers are starving to death!

It was something that was felt and expressed by many viewers of TW: CoE immediately after it aired in the UK and again when it was shown in the U.S.  That was long before some banded together to express that feeling to the BBC and lobby for Ianto's return.

I find it odd to question the validity of the poll results because folks who were interested in participating in the poll and had an opinion on one of the choices the editors provided ACTUALLY voted for it. OMG! Shocking!  What a nightmare!  I suppose according to some legitimate polls only take place in a vacuum.

Clearly I'm glad the intensely critical reaction to Ianto's death and by virtue of it the waste of a wonderful character, the halt of an inspired performance and the loss of a unique and charismatic couple was noted and so overwhelmingly supported by members here at AE.

I guess I find it odd that anybody is surprised at this. In fact I find it infuriating that every time this subject comes up there are actually people who dismiss it as delusional hyperactive fangirls. Instead of thinking about why the whole thing is such a huge deal in the first place.

If the whole Ianto thing was some minor blip don't you think that months and months after the whole thing went down that perhaps people would have forgotten about it?

To dismiss it misses out on the underlying reasons for why so many people are so angry and why it still is such a HUGE subject every time Afterelton makes a blog post about it. As can be evinced by the massive amount of comments that have been made about the subject on this site.

"Its fiction" people cry "Its not worth getting worked up over. Get a thicker skin, get over it."

Of course its not just about the fiction, its not just about Ianto's death and anybody who has been paying attention knows that. Its about what that death represents, its about how that death was pulled off, its about how Russell T. Davies acted afterward, and its about the feelings that the whole thing generated.

Do I think that some fans are overreacting? Of course they are, but to act as if they don't have a valid point behind their reaction is incredibly disingenuous.

Why are people so angry? Why is the death of a fictional character so devastating? I have heard many reasons.

The ones most important to me are about the type of messages that Ianto's death sent. The same tired old, gay and/or bisexual, dies and/or turns evil cliche...   Its so ingrained that I could easily find instances both in film and in television. Its something that has often come up on this site.

While the writers and producers of Torchwood are most likely not in anyway shape or form homophobic. They did indeed put a homophobic scenario into their show, whether on purpose or accident is a matter for debate.

And this is incredibly painful to me as a loyal viewer of the show, Torchwood was a safe place,  it was the only Sci-fi/fantasy show at the time that had male gay/bisexual characters after years and years of waiting for Star Trek, Star Wars, Stargate, someone, anyone,  to throw us a god damned bone.

Not only that Jack and Ianto weren't walking and talking lisping cliches, but were people that I liked(Jack), and wanted to be like (Ianto).

Its why the betrayal  of the whole deal hit so hard, RTD is a gay man who probably has gone through many of the similar experiences that I as a gay man have gone through. And he acts as if he doesn't even grasp the concept that he may have done something wrong.

Its one thing when some dumb beauty queen who was clearly never on my side in the first place does something like that. Carrie Prejean doesn't have the chance to betray because it was clear that she was never an ally.

It boggles my mind that he could not have seen the reaction to what happened coming miles away, or even a worse thought comes to mind considering his tactlessness afterward, perhaps he knew but did it anyways because he knew it would hurt.

It makes me mad, and I don't appreciate being told by others that I don't have the right to feel that way about something. In fact its pretty counterproductive to arrogantly tell people to "Get over it" cause that tends to make them even madder.

 And that's just my point of view there are other perfectly valid reasons for why people disliked Ianto's death, ranging from the writing (Ianto's death was nowhere near as dramatically satisfying as Tosh and Owen's.) to the deconstruction of Ianto as a character leading up to his death, to Jacks actions afterward, to suspicions about why it was done in the first place(Gwenwood etc)..

Even if Torchwood is a "niche" show its a recent show with an ongoing fallout from the events and involves a very real sense of betrayal from a gay show runner - whose role with future episodes is still undecided. 

But even so, as a UK person I had not even heard about 4 of the possible options (or 3 of the people involved) so that left me personally affected by;

Stephen Gately - Whilst I fully agree the homophobic backlash from one paper about that was hideous it really wasn't that surprising that some comments would be made considering the circumstances.  If a straight celebrity died on the same night they were in a threesome it would of course be splashed across the papers the next day, Jan Moir just let her homophobia slither through and crossed the line from the normal "rock star/celebrity excess" outrage to gay bashing.

Heath Ledger - I miss him so much but he wasn't gay, he just played a gay character (brilliantly, admittedly) and was an amazing actor.  To me though he will always be remembered as "Patrick Verona" and "William Thatcher" so his death couldn't be a "worst gay moment" in my eyes.

Brokeback Mountain - The oscars are such a subjective thing and there can only be one winner.  If it hadn't been nominated at all or had been beaten by a really awful film then of course I would pick that but films lose out at the Oscars all the time.

So that leaves me with Ianto Jones - the first mainstream character on British TV who didn't mince, lisp, stay camp but always single (or worse, outrageously promiscuous) and who actually was committed in his relationships.  But to me what made him even more special was that he was arguably bi.  He loved and was committed to one woman at the start of the show, everything he did was for her.  It was only later that he fell in love with a man. 

And that change, that confusion (outside of the stereotypical teenage "I was confused" angst) is even rarer on TV for me.  Most gay TV characters are certain of their sexuality and always have been.  I didn't realise I loved women until I was 27 and it took one amazing woman to wake up that side of me that I had been perhaps not denying but certainly ignoring for so long.  As a result I could empathise with Ianto Jones as he explored his sexuality.  I could see on screen the exact same thing I was going through and it was OK!  It was never an issue, never needed labels or explanations it was just accepted.

And then in the space of 5 hours of telly this brilliant, heroic, flawed, normal and inspiring mainstream gay/bi character was bashed (queer, smelling the gay etc), not really gay "Its not men, its just him", had his partner become incredibly distant from him, made a liar and finally was fridged for no real plot purpose whatsoever.

It wasn't just that a fictional character was killed off, it was a sense of betrayal from a gay show runner, a betrayal after months of very gay pleasing publicity promising fans would be very excited with the development of the relationship.  It was the deconstruction and changing of that character from what he had been into something less threateningly gay and generally a complete shock from what had previously been a safe and gay friendly show into what felt more like a bad episode of Eastenders.

So thats why I voted for Ianto Jones.  Its not a conspiracy, its just that as a UK person, out of the given list, that is the one moment that stands out to me and was the one I experienced first hand.

Characters have died since fiction exists. As long as this fans have fought for a return. Remember Sherlock Holmes? If fans mourn and fight it usually shows that this character was something special. It first of all should be seen as a compliment to those who created.  Because about a boring character noboy would care. But instead of taking it as a compliment that fans didn't want to loose his creation RTD insultet them in his interviews. I think with this he surely had stirred things up and made the campaigners more determiend.

A lot of good explanations why people are still upset about Ianto's death have been given here. I agree with them. For me there are to more which make me still upset about the killing.

If the death would have been of any use for the story develeopment it may be much more acceptable. Although RTD keeps telling the oppossite I don't see how Ianto's death or surviving could have influenced anything what happened afterwards. There still would have been the 456, the need to save the children and in the end the need for Jack to sacrifice his grandson. If RTD just wanted to shock the audiance with a tragic death (and that obviously is all this scene was for) why had he choosen Ianto? He coudl have chosen Gwen or Rhys as much? Was he aware that only Ianto was popular enough to really be a shock? If it at least would have been ment as a way to develope Jack as a charcter, f.e. running him evil with now locking for revange or a manipulation of the time line. But obviously nothing of this was in RTDs intention as the last Doctor Who showed. Jack just moves on and so does RTD as if nothing happened. I think if the death would have been from some value to the future of Torchwood fans may have come to terms with it now. But so I can't.

Second and I don't mean this as Gwen-bashing at all: If you establish in a fandom that any characetr dies young and before suffer a lot of personal losses but one character comes out clean of anything I as a viewer start to question the motife. Anyone besides Gwen has at least lost one love but she got Rhys back. Not to mention the fact that she himself never got in real danger or that she didn't even lost the child what just would have been logical considering all the emotional and physical stress she had. That she is the only obvious straight person (Tosh had a relationship with another women, Owen seemed not to mind to kiss another guy)  is the fact what really leaves the bad taste into my mouth. The message i still gt from thsi is: By the nice, married hetero couple and you get the happy end but dare to be gay/straight...

Alone for sending this message (intentionally or not) with Ianto's death it was the worst gay moment for me. It's not only the death of a gay character or the loss of a talented young actor it's the messages which I receive behind all this and which just turn anything good Torchwood has send out over two years to the contrarrary.