Mores for Gays video blog (Ep.3): The Other "F Word"

I love your sense of humour and you do raise some excellent points. What's your view on the various uses of the word "gay", both positive and negative connotations?

And you do look a little like the Blue's Clues guy.

A recent pic of Steve Burns (former host of Blue's Clues):

hmm...i did not know more young people prefer to be called queer now. interesting. I don't care for the word to be used as another way of saying "gay" just because it does still carry a negative tone in some places....yeah, any word can be used negatively...but it's the really hateful tone i can't stand.

Plus, like faggot....the meaning orginally is not that flattering....it originally means "strange" - i don't see why a person would call themselves that. eh

At least the word gay means happy orginally...(speaking of gay, i get a kick watching classic movies where someone says how gay something is or how gay they feel...ah, amusing stuff)

a friend told me kathy griffin said the word 'fag' at the bravo award show thingy (i didnt watch it) and he told me "just because she is close to the gay community does not give her the right to use that word, no matter how she used it..." - he said he was troubled that she of all people would use it. I then said "oh, who cares?" and he got mad and cussed me out for a bit..eventually, I pointed out that he uses the word all the time around friends. He said "well, in their eyes I am a fag, so a fag using the word can't do much harm…" (i think my friend was high on something) - - I said "if your name was hitler, would you go around dressed as him as a joke only because you feel you're doing it as a joke and not to offend?" and we basically got into this huge fight about who and when people can use this and other hateful words.

The debate is moot. It'll always be a hateful word and I don't see why anyone from any sort of community uses words that offends them jokingly only because they feel they can.

This whole vlog really reminds me of the debate involving the "n word" in the African American community and outside. My viewpoint on the "other f word" remains the same: No matter what group says it or how its said, it doesn’t change the fact that at the end of the day it is still a slur, a slur that was used to belittle and degenerate homosexuals. And just with the n word, when one group says it and then feels another group cannot in effect you're saying, "It's my slur not yours!" Uhm exuse me? If some in the gay community want to project that attitude then fine, I can't stop them. But LGBT equal rights will be in the same situation that African American civil rights are in. You can't get others to respect you if disrespect yourself.

In Italy one common slur for gay people is "finocchi" (fennels), for nearly the same reason: fennels were thrown on the pyres where people were burnt alive to "purify" them (or more likely to cover the stench of burning flesh!).

And it's a great vlog by the way Daniel. You are a very intelligent, and insightful person. AfterElton really should interview you ;)

In french (in Quebec anyway), the pejoratives the most used are:

"tapette": a Fly Swatter

"pedale"/"pede": a pedal

It's interesting how in French being gay is about being crushed by a foot or a fly swatter... ???

 

Is there a derogatory term that is exclusive to straight Caucasian men? I used to think "prick" or "asshole" could be used, but I also have those things as a part of my anatomy. I used to think "redneck" until I found out that it was a dirty dig on the Scottish. If there are none maybe we should create one that would be as offensive and demeaning as I find the word "faggot". I grew up in rural NE and heard the words "faggot" or "fag" used with no other aim but to strike dead someone's dignity. So maybe we should have a contest and think of the most hateful term that would be restricted to straight white men. Or ...do we have better things to do with our time?

One thing that has always fascinated me about insults that it seems be such a question of targets. For example, certain words that aren't considered offensive in one context being offensive in a differnet one. Namely straight men insulting other straight men as gay when they want to insult them to imply weakness and the like. Would the same people use the same terms if they were trying to insult somebody who they knew was gay? Just like many normally insultive word are supposed to be turned okay if the affected party is using it (like rappers using the n-word, or gays calling each other a queen).

 

I do think that there seems to be an element of "I get to make fun of my siblings/friends/country/things, but no outsider can". 

I registered to After Elton on the strength of all of your blogs to date. Love the topics and can't wait for more. It doesn't hurt that you are adorable too!!! 

 

Basil3000

 

Given the antiquated definition of "faggot", what do you call a bundle of "faggots"?

Answer: the republican party

HAHAHA

Dan, you are so adorable. Don't take this the wrong way but you remind me of a cartoon character.

 

 

I never use "the f word" myself, except when referring to cigarettes. I honestly don't understand the idea of "taking back the word for the community"---the term in my mind is an insult, and I don't think of myself in those terms, nor anyone else.

Ah, about the origin of "gay"... Here's an interesting article by Rik Isensee. I'll break it up into a couple of segments, so as not to overwhelm anyone with a huge post...

---------------------------------

I'm like a superhero, with no powers or motivation...

I'm like a superhero, with no powers or motivation...

 

I'm like a superhero, with no powers or motivation...

The students at my university use "queer" a lot because it's inclusive -- saying LGBTQA all the time gets tiring! Queer can mean anyone who self-identifies as having an alternative sexuality. I know a number of people who identify as "queer straights" because they either grew up in the gay community, are politically affiliated with it, or just don't see themselves as fitting a "mainstream" sexuality. So I see "queer" as more a political and cultural designation, and gay, lesbian, bisexual, etc., fitting within that as a specific sexual orientation. And as to the term "fag" -- I always thought it came from British slang, like "parlo," where a lot of gay slang in general comes from, including "drag." "Fagging" in a British boarding school was a younger boy acting as a servant to an older boy, including laying the fire, making his bed, and, in some cases, having a sexual realtionship with him. A boy's "fag" was the one who fagged for him. Read any stuff about the history of Eton and places like that and it's full of the term, going back to the early 19th century.

Words don't live in a vacuum. Words are subject to space and time and history like all the rest of us. What is the intention of the word? How was it used?

Mores don't necessarily exist in the same world as language. Language itself doesn't. I get a bit scared when social convention governs language. In this age we adopt words and change their meaning. We make new words and make a new language.

I hate to be so post-modern about it, but take the language that was used to keep you down and use it irreverently. That ain't rude.

 

Not a fan of "faggot" in any context, but not not sure why. I can accept "guuurl" to some extent and that's about it. It's odd as I am pretty irreverent about almost anything among friends. I guess I'd be an example of the school of I can make fun of myself (and do every second of the day)but no one else can. But context is a huge element as is self-definition as some people who might define themselves as "queer" may not want to be greated with a "Hi queer."

And then there are the racial ones which can be the subject of an entirely new video blog. Since I am part Latin (which no one ever remembers), I'll throw out there one for those who love Latino men: "burrito chaser." There there are "rice queens" for those gay men who love Asians. I mention the latter as it's a double whammy because it could be offensive to both the chased and the chaser.

Inrrevent? Disrespectful? Funny? Mean? Probably yes to all. Again, great job on the video blog. More!!!!!

Guillermo's Media Guillotine: Entertainment, journalism, politics, and popular culture.

http://springintoaction.typepad.com

Hi Daniel, although you do resemble the Blues Clues guy I would say you resemble a young, healthy, pre-drug abuse Robert Downey Jr.--maybe a little better looking.

Very interesting points--I do refer to myself as a fag sometimes--though I would never call anyone else that except with admiration--I will try not to do that anymore.  Queer--although I agree with you that straights won't use it as an admiring term--I actually have an affection for it.  Maybe it was coming of age in the 80s as Queer Nation had it's brief rise to power.  I view Queer as a strong, defiant thing--but I never call anyone else Queer unless they call themselves that first.

Oh it's true. On the gay youth forum I go to they're currently debating whether or not they should add 'queer' as a sexuality option in the profile editor. Personally I detest the word. Mostly becauses it sounds really weird no matter who says it.

As for the other word? It's losing it's meaning in most places. One of my best friends says that it is her favourite insult to use but I know her to be extremely gay-friendly. I don't use the word much if at all but if I do I use it to describe someone who is worthy of the original meaning i.e. Should burn alive. Like I said, I don't use it often. It's a bit extreme.

You could look at the way a lot of younger lesbians use "dyke." I grew up thinking it was an insult, period. But all of my gay female students call themselves "dykes" or even "baby dykes." If they're into the music scene they sometimes use "grrl" but that's rarer around here.

Hi Dennis, This edition of Mores for Gays was entertaining and thoughtful, but it is not the stretch in topics from your past vlogs that I had  anticipated from the headline. Here’s the rub. 

Everyone would agree that “the F word” is synonymous with that ubiquitous penile penetration term “F*ck”. Referentially, for gay men, that makes anal penetration the basis for your phrase “the other F word”. Therefore, semanticalogically it would seem that “the other F word” would be a sexually good time between two gay men that involves at least one of their genitals or penetration, but not both ~ since that would be still be f*ucking.  

             So, what is the “other “F word”?

My understanding is that the F-Word is Judeo-Christian in origin, having come from zealots who repeatedly through the Ages claim gay people are going "to burn" in the mythological punishment zone called "hell". Hence the derogatory term F-Word (meaning bundle of sticks), an item whose sole purpose is "to burn". Thus the term is as much a religious attack upon gay human beings as anything else.

I think the problem with making a word bad or taboo is that you then give those who don't understand why it is bad or taboo - or who even believe it should be so - the impetus to then use that word. IMO the best course of action is just to make it so mainstream that all power is robbed from it and it can hold no sway over us. Of course we are human and the best course of action is not the one we necessarily take.

--

"A woman never runs away, a woman never hides away in order to survive." - from her song 'Real Me' by Ayumi Hamasaki

If you thought this disscution could not get more colorfull. Follow the link.

Thats language for you.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2698507.stm

Yes, I am coming a bit late to the party.  I just discovered this wonderful vlog, and am getting caught up on all of the back episodes.

As the father of two, including a toddler, and one who has been accused of resembling Steve Burns as well, I absolutely loved the ending to this vlog!

Getting somewhat back on topic, I have been called "faggot" for as long as I can remember.  Which kind of makes my family's shock at my coming out all the more mystifying, but I digress...  I think the first time was when I was five years old.  I didn't even know what it meant at the time, but it still was enough to make me cry.  That was when my sister came up with this little rhyme/retort.  It is totally cheesy, and the sort of thing that only a protective seven year old sister would come up with, but felt like sharing all the same :)

"Faggot is wood/Wood is nature/Nature is beautiful/Thanks for the compliment"