It has been referred to as "The Other F Word", but most people know it
by its street name. Even though some of its more famous users have been
sent to rehab, its use in the gay community grows every day.
In
this episode of Mores for Gays, Daniel explores a word that many gay people cringe at and
yet some have embraced. Is this a word that straight people can't use but
gay people can?
Find out after the break!
Submitted by
on Wed, 2008-06-18 07:53.
Great vlog, Daniel!
I love your sense of humour and you do raise some excellent points. What's your view on the various uses of the word "gay", both positive and negative connotations?
And you do look a little like the Blue's Clues guy.
A recent pic of Steve Burns (former host of Blue's Clues):
queer....
hmm...i did not know more young people prefer to be called queer now. interesting. I don't care for the word to be used as another way of saying "gay" just because it does still carry a negative tone in some places....yeah, any word can be used negatively...but it's the really hateful tone i can't stand.
Plus, like faggot....the meaning orginally is not that flattering....it originally means "strange" - i don't see why a person would call themselves that. eh
At least the word gay means happy orginally...(speaking of gay, i get a kick watching classic movies where someone says how gay something is or how gay they feel...ah, amusing stuff)
a friend told me kathy griffin said the word 'fag' at the bravo award show thingy (i didnt watch it) and he told me "just because she is close to the gay community does not give her the right to use that word, no matter how she used it..." - he said he was troubled that she of all people would use it. I then said "oh, who cares?" and he got mad and cussed me out for a bit..eventually, I pointed out that he uses the word all the time around friends. He said "well, in their eyes I am a fag, so a fag using the word can't do much harm…" (i think my friend was high on something) - - I said "if your name was hitler, would you go around dressed as him as a joke only because you feel you're doing it as a joke and not to offend?" and we basically got into this huge fight about who and when people can use this and other hateful words.
The debate is moot. It'll always be a hateful word and I don't see why anyone from any sort of community uses words that offends them jokingly only because they feel they can.
Words and negative meanings
Ive been hearing more and more the use of "queer" in the community for a while. But when it comes to the negative tone of it, how do you feel about the term "gay".
The beginning of the use of the term "gay" in relation to people who love people of their own sex, was intented as a derogatory term; it was a complete insult. Only until gay people started taking ownwership of the word, did the connotation changed. So much so that today it is the preferred way of many in the gay community to be called.
That is a perfect example of how to difuse the meaning of a word that is meant to hurt. So there may be an argument of taking ownership of it and turn it around. I thinkthat is exactly the reason for its use as Daniel mentions.
Ironically, it is preferred to the word homosexual, which was created with the intention of giving us gay folk a way to be called devoid of any prejudice. In Europe and the US, that word has a negative tone for various reasons: for being too clinical, its use by conservatives-evangelicals, persecution over the nazi regime, etc. This shows that it works the other way around too.
Granted the word "faggot" has a more negative meaning that "gay" or "queer" ever had. So we should probably just leave it as what it is. An insult.
But at the same time, words get the meaning we give them, if there is a way to take away that words power and change what it means, I think it should be done and not be afraid to do so. As of how to do it? And, is this the way? I dunno.
You know...
Self-deprecation vs Reclamation
Calling myself a fag is self-depreciation. Calling a close friend a fag is (hopefully) playful teasing. But to call a fag some third party I hardly knows me is just plain mean.
I think too often people confuse self-depreciation and teasing with movements to reclaim terms. Come on now. How many times have your hear two (usually male) friends greet each other with "Hey a**hole!" or some similar derogatory words? Do you think that they are engage is some attempt to reclaim a**hole for the common man?
When I'm griping about a bad haircut or fussing over what to wear, my best friend might say "Stop being such a fag." I know my friend and we share a level of trust, so I know he is making as much fun of the stereotype as he is of me. The overreaction is meant to highlight the triviality of my apparent quot;dilemma." It is certainly a statement that neither he nor I would dare say to someone we barely knew regardless of whether they were gay or not. The key is trust either born from familiarity or shared experience.
So when one group says the n/f/a/whatever word and then feels another group cannot, they are *not* saying "It's my slur, not yours!". In effect they are saying, "We don't know you so there is no foundation on which to place trust that your intent was not to offend!"
I Still Find it Pointless
Its my opinion and I'm sticking to it. When Jewish people start calling each other "kikes" or when women who have had abortions start calling each other "baby killers" maybe I'll loosen up on my viewpoint. I just don't get why would anyone even want to attach disrespectful words to themselves? Have we run out of words in the english language.
Whether they be the f word or the n word I always find a large amount of self disrespect undercurrent with the words no matter what situation you're in. If I'm in a group of African Americans and their throwing the n word around I feel like saying, "Hey why don't we just put the bed sheets on and start burning crosses, seems we're already fond of the groups termonology anyways" or if some of my LGBT friends call each other fags or dykes I've even asked them if want to attend a funeral picketing of a gaybashing victim since their familar with the language.
I think once you take words like that and turn them into something casual its completely self destructive. Once you take words like that and make them something that someone would even think use for self-depreciation(that whole idea alone boggles my mind) let alone humor you've just done your part in setting whatever rights movement you believe in, be it African American or LGBT, back a few years.
The F word has translations
In Italy one common slur for gay people is "finocchi" (fennels), for nearly the same reason: fennels were thrown on the pyres where people were burnt alive to "purify" them (or more likely to cover the stench of burning flesh!).
Oh
In french (in Quebec
In french (in Quebec anyway), the pejoratives the most used are:
"tapette": a Fly Swatter
"pedale"/"pede": a pedal
It's interesting how in French being gay is about being crushed by a foot or a fly swatter... ???
actually, i may be mistaken,
You are right. I always
You are right. I always considered pede to be a diminutive of pedale (both used as gay slurs) just like fag is a diminutive of faggot. But it would make sense that at first the pedophile connotation was the reason why pede/pedale was used.
http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/P%C3%A9d%C3%A9
Brand new french gay slurs of the day:
Fif / fifi: diminutive of "fifille" translated into "girly girl"
Moumoune: from the word "mou" meaning soft/wimp
Derogatory Terms for Straight Caucasian Men
It's a bit old fashioned,
It's a bit old fashioned, but how about Cracker? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cracker_(pejorative)
Here an example of Chris Rock using it: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OeEwFhZWO_c
I like wanker myself. But that's usually more male specific than white specific.
Germans use "Hete" to describe heterosexuals. It's not necessarily all that insultive, but it probably depends on who you tell it to. One quirk of it is that the female form (eine Hete rather than ein Hete) is used to refer to heterosexual men, so maybe there is some underlying thing going on by using a female word to refer to a man. Wiktionary lists it as slightly degorative.
I was always partial to
Breeders
A question of targets.
One thing that has always fascinated me about insults that it seems be such a question of targets. For example, certain words that aren't considered offensive in one context being offensive in a differnet one. Namely straight men insulting other straight men as gay when they want to insult them to imply weakness and the like. Would the same people use the same terms if they were trying to insult somebody who they knew was gay? Just like many normally insultive word are supposed to be turned okay if the affected party is using it (like rappers using the n-word, or gays calling each other a queen).
I do think that there seems to be an element of "I get to make fun of my siblings/friends/country/things, but no outsider can".
Love Your Topics
I registered to After Elton on the strength of all of your blogs to date. Love the topics and can't wait for more. It doesn't hurt that you are adorable too!!!
Basil3000
So What Do You Call...
Given the antiquated definition of "faggot", what do you call a bundle of "faggots"?
Answer: the republican party
HAHAHA
Dan, you are so adorable. Don't take this the wrong way but you remind me of a cartoon character.
I'll agree
I never use "the f word" myself, except when referring to cigarettes. I honestly don't understand the idea of "taking back the word for the community"---the term in my mind is an insult, and I don't think of myself in those terms, nor anyone else.
Ah, about the origin of "gay"... Here's an interesting article by Rik Isensee. I'll break it up into a couple of segments, so as not to overwhelm anyone with a huge post...
---------------------------------
I'm like a superhero, with no powers or motivation...
Part two
I'm like a superhero, with no powers or motivation...
Part three
I'm like a superhero, with no powers or motivation...
The students at my
Words don't live in a
Words don't live in a vacuum. Words are subject to space and time and history like all the rest of us. What is the intention of the word? How was it used?
Mores don't necessarily exist in the same world as language. Language itself doesn't. I get a bit scared when social convention governs language. In this age we adopt words and change their meaning. We make new words and make a new language.
I hate to be so post-modern about it, but take the language that was used to keep you down and use it irreverently. That ain't rude.
Awesome video log!!! More!!! And while we are at it
And then there are the racial ones which can be the subject of an entirely new video blog. Since I am part Latin (which no one ever remembers), I'll throw out there one for those who love Latino men: "burrito chaser." There there are "rice queens" for those gay men who love Asians. I mention the latter as it's a double whammy because it could be offensive to both the chased and the chaser.
Inrrevent? Disrespectful? Funny? Mean? Probably yes to all. Again, great job on the video blog. More!!!!!
Guillermo's Media Guillotine: Entertainment, journalism, politics, and popular culture.
http://springintoaction.typepad.com
Daniel, I would say more Robert Downey Jr.
Hi Daniel, although you do resemble the Blues Clues guy I would say you resemble a young, healthy, pre-drug abuse Robert Downey Jr.--maybe a little better looking.
Very interesting points--I do refer to myself as a fag sometimes--though I would never call anyone else that except with admiration--I will try not to do that anymore. Queer--although I agree with you that straights won't use it as an admiring term--I actually have an affection for it. Maybe it was coming of age in the 80s as Queer Nation had it's brief rise to power. I view Queer as a strong, defiant thing--but I never call anyone else Queer unless they call themselves that first.
The 'Queer' Thing
Oh it's true. On the gay youth forum I go to they're currently debating whether or not they should add 'queer' as a sexuality option in the profile editor. Personally I detest the word. Mostly becauses it sounds really weird no matter who says it.
As for the other word? It's losing it's meaning in most places. One of my best friends says that it is her favourite insult to use but I know her to be extremely gay-friendly. I don't use the word much if at all but if I do I use it to describe someone who is worthy of the original meaning i.e. Should burn alive. Like I said, I don't use it often. It's a bit extreme.
You could look at the way a
The “other” F word is Fag?
Hi Dennis, This edition of Mores for Gays was entertaining and thoughtful, but it is not the stretch in topics from your past vlogs that I had anticipated from the headline. Here’s the rub.
Everyone would agree that “the F word” is synonymous with that ubiquitous penile penetration term “F*ck”. Referentially, for gay men, that makes anal penetration the basis for your phrase “the other F word”. Therefore, semanticalogically it would seem that “the other F word” would be a sexually good time between two gay men that involves at least one of their genitals or penetration, but not both ~ since that would be still be f*ucking.
So, what is the “other “F word”?What?
No, "The Other "F" word" would clearly indicate another different word beginning with "F", not a different use (and i don't actually think your usage is actually different) of the same word.
Before you start throwing around terms like "semanticalogically" (I suppose you actually mean semanticly) you might want to spend sometime becoming acquainted with basic logic.
www.thebittersuite.blogspot.com
Wha???
Origin of the Derogatory F-Word
What we should do
I think the problem with making a word bad or taboo is that you then give those who don't understand why it is bad or taboo - or who even believe it should be so - the impetus to then use that word. IMO the best course of action is just to make it so mainstream that all power is robbed from it and it can hold no sway over us. Of course we are human and the best course of action is not the one we necessarily take.
--
"A woman never runs away, a woman never hides away in order to survive." - from her song 'Real Me' by Ayumi Hamasaki
Amazing
If you thought this disscution could not get more colorfull. Follow the link.
Thats language for you.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/2698507.stm
Faggots Taste Good!!!
I laughed out loud in the office at such a volume that I'm embarrassed. My two favorite lines:
"The great British faggot is full of flavour and a great belly warmer at this time of year."
"The family, including Lewis, 13, and Grace, 7, eat faggots twice a week".
Yes, I am coming a bit late
Yes, I am coming a bit late to the party. I just discovered this wonderful vlog, and am getting caught up on all of the back episodes.
As the father of two, including a toddler, and one who has been accused of resembling Steve Burns as well, I absolutely loved the ending to this vlog!
Getting somewhat back on topic, I have been called "faggot" for as long as I can remember. Which kind of makes my family's shock at my coming out all the more mystifying, but I digress... I think the first time was when I was five years old. I didn't even know what it meant at the time, but it still was enough to make me cry. That was when my sister came up with this little rhyme/retort. It is totally cheesy, and the sort of thing that only a protective seven year old sister would come up with, but felt like sharing all the same :)
"Faggot is wood/Wood is nature/Nature is beautiful/Thanks for the compliment"