ATWT video clip update: Luke determined to sully Wheatley's fliers

Goodness, have I been assigned a camp? Well, I'll maybe accept it with a proviso which is - yes, as I suggested, ATWT has disappointed, discriminated, demeaned and offended by not treating Nuke on a parity with all the other couples. What they've given us is a piss-poor, pandering smack in the face. I'm pretty sure we're in agreement on that. I share your anger. It's all been said ad nauseaum.

The point I was trying to make was less about the specifics of this particular SL and more about the bigger picture. Is a relationship not gay, or not gay enough, if the couple hasn't had actual below-the-belt sexual contact? Conversely, would Luke and Noah be more legitimate if they'd hopped in the sack the first week but never fell in love? Is that how we define the multiplicity of our relationships? Is that the litmus test? That's what I took from your original post and that's what I was reacting to. Perhaps I misunderstood. My problem is with the seeming elevation of sex above all else. That's how the James Dobsons of this world define us. It's all about lust for dick according to them - end of story. I don't think so. The problem is we have only one gay male couple with a continuing SL on American soaps. We want them to represent big time. If we lived in a perfect world - or Germany, Spain, Sweden, France, the UK - we'd have that more fully realized example of sex and love between two men on a soap. That my point was tangential doesn't mean I'm appeased by ATWT's sanitized - oh, how to put this - crapola.

and that SUCKS!  BUT THEY ARE MOST CERTAINLY GAY.

We all agree that it would be more realistic and make more sense (and make everyone happier) if NUKE was all over each other like young lovers do. Agreed. The desparation of young folks to see them kissing and having sex (as per the comments on youtube and other sites) is very telling.

You can say a lot of things about this couple,

You could say the trajectory of their relationship is fantastical and unrealistic (as is true for every couple on every soap regardless of sexual orientation)

You could say that their relationship is too too chaste and undersexualized

You could even say that the writing for the characters encourages homophobia in that it implies that gay couples don't desire each other sexually as much as straight couples OR even that the writing implies that having sex with each other for the first time isn't as important for this young gay couple as it should realistically be.

I would agree with all of the above

However, to say that there is NO GAY STORY is ridiculous and inflamatory and insulting.

1) Straight men don't make out with each other, call each other boyfriends, come out as gay and talking about having sex with each other.

That alone is enough to make this couple "gay, gay, all day" even if they never said, "Hey this is a gay storyline"

2) Both characters have repeatedly over the last year talked about having sex with each other, communicated their mutual desire for each other and lamented the fact that they haven't had sex yet. (Luke's ironic "why aren't we having sex yet" flippout this summer was crazy making because it was Luke's decision to move them out to the "farm of no nookie" in the first place and his decision to move Noah back there after the whole army situation (and they're his grandma's rules). Yes, Noah (the orphan and only child or a psychohomophobic murder and blackmailing prostitute) loves to be around a Luke's family, but I bet he'd live anywhere with Luke (except the dorms which he hates)

3) If you have to be actively sexually active in order to "really" be gay, then I think most of us on this board would be disqualified because I can't think of any person who hasn't gone for a while without having sex simply because they weren't involved with anyone (and yes I don't think a year is that long)

4) If you treat NUKE as characters on a television show (which means you have to accept that what they say is what they mean because it's what's been written for them) then you have to accept that despite how much we may want them to have sex and despite how much we think their not having sex is unrealistic, this couple has chosen to not have sex yet. Period.

It's not really that different than any other decision a couple might make that makes no sense to folks outside of the couple (being nonmonogomous, living together but having separate bedrooms, ). Within the confines of the story as written, this couple has the right to make that decision.

5) What I do know is that here is the ONLY gay couple on all of American daytime television and the only teenaged gay couple period. They're talking about being horny and having sex, wanting it to be special because it will be their FIRST TIME EVER HAVING SEX WITH A MAN, LET ALONE EACH OTHER, at some point. I don't remember any other long-term gay couple (teen or grown) every having that kind of conversation. That's farther than Will got in all the years of "Will and Grace" and he was a grown-assed-man.

6) I know there are lots of people (and characters) who come out BECAUSE the have sex with someone of the same sex, but lots of people (and characters) just know they are gay separate and unto themselves and I think both "ways" of coming out need to be depicted.

Overall I'm trying to say that I think, sex aside, this storyline has really done a great deal in terms of depicting the kinds of things two young men MIGHT go through in the process of coming out and finding love and making a life for themselves as gay men (in a totally SOAPY DRAMA FILLED WAY of course)

I hope when they do get to the having sex part of the story that they won't just gloss over it but really discuss some of the issues of what it's like to have sex for the first time when you're gay. It's not the same as sleeping with someone of the opposite sex. It has a lot more weight and meaning and I hope it's done well.

It is most certainly a Gay Story.