 by Michael Jensen
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Discussing gay characters with the creators of SCI FI's new show, "Sanctuary"
As a pretty big science fiction fan, I was looking forward to Sunday afternoons panels for SCI FI's new shows Sanctuary and Caprica more than most of the other shows I've covered here at the Television Critics Association. (Coolio's Rules anyone?) I was especially eager to find out if the success of Russel T. Davies gay/bisexual-inclusive show Torchwood would finally prompt American television to add a significant gay character to one of their shows. (Vincent on Eureka doesn't quite fit the bill being a secondary character that most people don't even seem to realize is gay in the first place.) So will Sanctuary or Caprica have gay characters? Nope. But they will have episodes about exploring prejudice and will have creatures that are misunderstood, hunted, persecuted, and need protecting. Oh, my -- that doesn't sound promising. When does Torchwood come back again? (BTW, they trailer shown before the panel made this show look so much like Torchwood, I kept expecting John Barrowman to pop up and drop a couple of quick double entendres.) Actually, my exchange with showrunner Sam Egan and executive producer/writer Damian Kindler was so interesting that I'll just let you folks read the transcript yourself and see what you think.
Sam Egan and Damian Kindler
AfterElton.com: Scripted American sci-fi series haven't
been terribly gay-inclusive, and I'm wondering if
there's any chance Sanctuary will finally go
where Star Trek hasn't dared to and actually
include a gay character on the show?
AE: But you don't have one now.
AE: I'm not asking for a socially relevant
character. I'm just asking for an actual gay
character on a science-fiction show. There hasn't been a whole lot of them, and frequently when I
bring the subject up, I get the ... what
you just said, which is very true -- about
exploring these issues, but you know, [as for the] the actual
gay character? You wouldn't say to an
African-American or an Asian person, "Well, we use
our show to explore social issues without actually
including [African-American or Asian] people." AE: I appreciate that. It's just unfortunate that whenever I bring up [the issue of including] a gay character, and I appreciate your thoughtfulness about this, but everybody's reaction is [discuss] exploring how everybody feels different and et cetera and so forth. Well, one of the things is that as a gay man, I don't feel all that different. You know, I love science fiction and I'd like to see that character [and] not as part of a social issue. What made this exchange so frustrating and disappointing is that it's 2008 and I'd really like to think we're past thinking of presenting gay folks on television as metaphors to explore feeling different and to show how tolerant the main heterosexual character is, not to mention I really am not interested in seeing myself represented as a hunted creature. Oy. I've heard the comment that shows are "open" to gay characters yet somehow don't have them so many times I could scream. This is Hollywood. Everyone is liberal and progressive. Yet somehow when it actually comes to getting interesting gay characters on television, it just doesn't seem to happen. Well, at least unless it's on Showtime. As for Caprica, the same question was asked in their panel which followed Sanctuary's and that show's executive producer Ronald Moore said, "Yeah, sure. I don't see any reason why we wouldn't do that. I don't think there's anybody who's identified as such in the pilot, but I see no reason why we wouldn't. " When pressed whether Caprica actually included a GLBT character Moore said there wasn't in the pilot and gave no indication that one was in the works. Submitted by on Mon, 2008-07-21 11:43. |
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"As a gay man, I don't feel all that different."
I'm glad you followed up on that, Michael. Meaningless phrases about "everyone feeling different" and "exploring social issues" have pretty much nothing to do with your question about having a gay character on a sci fi show.
I'll watch Sanctuary whether it has gay characters or not, but a simple "no, there are no gay characters and no plans for them" would be better than this same old, pandering message.
When I was, say, 12 years old, watching shows that explored issues of "otherness" may have somehow tapped into my feelings of being gay, but as you said, I don't feel different because I'm gay. And I definitely do not see images of myself in scenes about "creatures who are misunderstood and hunted and persecuted".
theAngryPuppy.com
So totally true Lee
Do you ever suppose that Hollywood people will ever manage to answer this question without coming across as condescending? I mean it's 2008 now. Being gay is not exclusively about being alienated or misunderstood. I'm out to my family, friends and co-workers. I have a little pride flag in my office. My homosexuality is not something that results in my lurking in the shadows trying to evade discovery. It's not 1958!
We're asking about having gay characters on a modern show, not about watching a 1980's AIDS film. Torchwood certainly doesn't make any bones about sexuality. Just the opposite. Jack (and John) exhibit marked disdain for 20th/21st Century either/or sexual orientation ideas. The fact that Jack and John were romantic as well as professional partners in the past, or that Jack and Ianto are in a relationship of some sort now, is not seen as anything more than character development.
So why is Hollywood scared when Cardiff isn't? Is it just that Brits are more socially progressive and able to cope, whereas American TV is still too scared of alienating the male 16-30 demographic? The fact that a character is gay doesn't have to be a major plot point in and of itself, anymore than a character being straight is.
Thanks, Michael
Great questions and thank you for pressing them on it.
You stated the problem perfectly. I would also add that the producers trying to get a Sci-Fi show off the ground probably believe that the prospective sci-fi show already has two strikes against it because it is sci-fi. Therefore, They think, that adding a gay relationship and gay characters would "unnecessarily" handicap its chances of being picked up. That is outrageous, but I'm just trying to elucidate their thinking in regards to the "political" environment they're dealing with in Hollywood. I assume that Hollywood at large still views ALL Science Fiction has a medium for children.
It's all just another symptom of the homophobia still alive and "well" in America.
You missed one key point,
this really pisses me off...
i'm glad you were able to keep your cool.
I am so sick of these guys saying they're "open" to it. No they're not.
Just once i'd like them to be honest and say "No, we won't be having any gay characters, because...
1. the networks we're shopping around to might be hesitant.
2. The sponsors won't like it.
3. We don't know how to write for gay characters (writing for a slimy, tentacled alien is a breeze, though)
4. Our demographic is young straight males, and we don't want to alienate them
The irony of course is that they are wrong
Great post, Michael. I am
Great post, Michael. I am SO GLAD there is at least one person calling them on this b.s. to their face and hopefully getting them to think a little bit about those glib stock answers. I doubt that they're bad or actively homophobic people, but they're clearly monumentally clueless. I mean:
I don't think you need to be so, you know, kind of on the nose and, say, "Here's a gay character."
Yeah, wow! On the nose! That's just going way too far out!
And snicks, LMAO:
We don't know how to write for gay characters (writing for a slimy, tentacled alien is a breeze, though)
Exactly. Sigh. That kind of attitude is exactly the problem.
Reminds me
of a quote from Ronald D. Moore when he was still working on Star Trek: "We have no plans to [include gay characters], chiefly because dealing with one’s sexual orientation in Gene’s 24th century is kinda simple: ‘Hey, Captain, I think I might be gay.’ ‘Okay. Now get back to fixing those transtators.’ It’s not really an issue to these people, so ‘exploring’ it doesn’t hold much promise." Source: “Answers,” Star Trek News, 16 July 1997, http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/6952/ron41.txt (retrieved 11 June 2008).
Richard
www.EQualityEntertainment.com
yes, because as we all remember on TNG...
the heterosexuality of those characters was never "explored", was it?
Like Data, who was an android... a heterosexual android.
And don't forget "the doctor" on Voyager, who was a hologram...a heterosexual hologram.
Heteros on TNG
Snicks, there was recently a heated thread on the Star Trek forums about gay characters (or the lack of them) in Star Trek XI.
Someone said:
"In the future, nobody will care! I mean, only a handful of major characters have gotten their sexuality defined in ANY way, let alone had a romance on-screen."
You and I both know that's a load of tribble manure, so I threw together a (humorous?) list of all the heterosexuality on TNG. You can see it here if you're into that sort of thing.
theAngryPuppy.com
HA! that was great, Lee!
As far as Riker is concerned, i still haven't gotten the image of him banging the alien Bebe Neuwirth out of my head. Lilith...NO!
Come ON! ST:TNG was ALL
It was pretty infuriating all the more because
After some recent experiences, I'm not shocked
A close straight friend of mine, who told me that he thinks of me as his older brother, also said he doesn't know how to "relate" or "deal" with my being gay, even though he's known since the day we met 3 years ago. Now, this is a bright guy who's not a bigot at all, yet he says something this clueless to me. I probably should have ripped him a new one, but all I said was "what's there to deal with? it's just two people in love." That, and this interview, are just so frustrating to me. Can't they just get over it already?
You say they're "not
You say they're "not intolerant bigoted people" but their WORK seems to suggest otherwise.
If we were talking about skin color, not sexuality, would you still say the same with monochromatic shows?
I don't think so.
frustration is understandable
I understand the frustration. I would be annoyed if Mohinder on Heroes had to deal with the “issue” of being of South Asian descent, instead of simply having it be one part of him (unless he was in a situation where racial identity was actually relevant). I want to see him as a person and not as an issue.
Let’s hope that the fact that you are asking these questions will make people question themselves. The fact that DK said “Well, it's a good point. I'm unprepared for your question but definitely noted,” shows that you took him by surprise, but it also seems as if he recognizes that this is a new perspective he hadn’t before considered. Maybe this means he will think about it further.
Sam Egan’s response was disappointing because it sounds as if he didn’t actually listen to your explanation. But what you can feel good about is the fact that, by constantly asking these questions, you are bringing the topic of gay visibility to people’s minds, and you are in some way changing the world. Some people won’t get your point, but some people will, so it’s great that you keep doing what you’re doing.
I don't care.
Sci-Fi rules
Loved the article but these two guys are buffoons. Side stepping the question you posed was not only blatant ignorance it was homophobic on a different level. To think that straight males would not want a gay character (what they were really hinting at) is crazy. I have a straight male friend who loves Torchwood and he even has watched Dante's Cove and loves it as well.
These troglodydes don't give the straight male population the benefit of the doubt. They are still living in the 1940s or 1800s.
As a gay man I enjoy movies and tv shows with a gay character because I like to see myself reflected in everyday life. I watch any show with gay characters when they are available (being in Canada we don't get LOGO or the SCI-FI channel) so I watch even ATWT eventhough NUKE is neutered.
Michael I appreciate and love you for forging ahead and pushing the gay agenda and making people like these two think, since they seem to be brain dead on gay issues.
Keep up the good work. You may just be a future gay Hero. Fifty years from now people are going to be talking about Michael Jensen, the man who changed history for gay people.
Live Long and Prosper
Teaching Them First Step Towards Change
Don't get too discouraged Michael. It is great that you are educating these producers and directors so that they know the real world questions that potential audience members want answered. Hopefully it will sink into their heads on future projects, and in the meantime it lets us, your readership, know that the hard questions are being put forward to challenge the status quo as well as letting us know which shows to watch and which to avoid. Keep up the great work! You are definitely a great journalist for not letting them slide by on answers.
How frustrating is it to
"I'm not asking for a
"I'm not asking for a socially relevant character. I'm just asking for an actual gay character on a science-fiction show"
Exactly! No more no less.
Great questions, Michael!
Cheers,
- QTC
QueerTwoCents.com
Thank you, Michael
For your articulate, direct and focussed questioning of these folks.
I plan on printing it out and mailing a copy together with my thoughts on the matter to the Executive Directors of Sanctuary.
Life is full of wonder. Love is never wrong. ~ Melissa Etheridge