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News, Reviews & Commentary on Gay and Bisexual Men in Entertainment and the Media

Joss Whedon's "Dollhouse" has room for the gays ... sort of


Joss Whedon and Eliza Dushku on the set of Fox's
Dollhouse

The last day of the Television Critics Association tour in Los Angeles included a set visit to one of next year's mosty hotly anticipated programs, Joss Whedon's Dollhouse starring Eliza Dushku. Joss, of course, gave us one of televisions best same-sex couples ever in Buffy the Vampire Slayer's Tara and Willow. But us gay boys were less lucky with the rather amibguous Andrew (who nonetheless made our list of the Ten Best Gay and Bisexual Science Fiction characters).

So the pressing question has been whether Dollhouse would have any gay characters on the show. I got the chance to ask Joss that very question and to nutshell it for you the answer is ... sort of.

AfterElton.com: Joss, with Tara and Willow, you created probably the best same-sex relationship. Is there anything in Dollhouse that a gay man can look forward to?
Joss Whedon
: The thing about Dollhouse by its nature is the relationships are rather ephemeral. Having said that, sexuality is part of what the actives were created for. So exploring different kinds of sexuality is going to be part of the show inevitably. We don’t have long-term relationships set up because they forget who they are at the end of every day, but same-sex encounters is part of the mythos. It comes with the territory. 

AE: You’ve been good about that. Is diversity something important to you as a writer in your shows?
JW:
Well, Eliza and I are both interested in sexuality as a topic. When we were first talking about the show before I decided to do it, when she was just explaining the kind of show she wanted to do, she said political, feminist, liberal and she said I’d like to deal with sexuality and I don’t just mean ‘be a little hottie.’

I’m interested in it as part of our humanity and all of those things factored into the idea for Dollhouse. So we’re both fascinated by what it says about us and what we think is wrong with us. I think people’s sexuality is much more fluid and interesting than most of them admit. I also think that people’s perversions, like their obsessions, are usually the only true and fascinating thing about them. 

AE: Is there anything gay in the works fairly soon or is that likely to happen later in the season?
JW
: There will be something within the order we have, for sure, the first 13. It’s not something anybody has asked us to shy away from. It’s not something that has made the network twitchy at all. They get it. And they’re not asking for it with a lascivious grin, either. They’re just like,This is just about what humans need from each other. And that’s not all sexual; most of it’s not. But when it deals with sexuality, they know that some time they’ll be from each other that is sometimes what humans need from each other they may not admit is in themselves.

The cast of Dollhouse

What's encouraging here is that Joss didn't just say he was open to the idea of same-sex storylines and would consider it (I can't tell you how many times I heard that line at the TCA!), but actually said we'll see something in the first half of the season. If it's not there, it's going to make him — and Fox — look bad. Of course, after having landed in the bottom of GLAAD's rankingstwo years in a row, Fox should be used to that by now. 

For those who don't know anything about the show, Eliza Dushku plays Echo, an "active" or "doll", someone who has had their personality "wiped" and is subsequently "imprinted" with a new personality before being hired out for a variety of reasons by a variety of folks. In between missions, the new personalities are again wiped and the dolls live in a state of childlike innocence not knowing who they once were or much about the other dolls either. Which explains Joss's answer about the dolls relationships being ephemeral (although one of the folks running the Dollhouse could certainly be gay).

Enver Gjokaj (pictured right), who sharp-eyed viewers might recollect from the ill-fated and shortlived The Book of Daniel, is also on board. Judging from the set visit and going by the sleeping pods we saw, it looks like there is room for six dolls at any one time so I assume we'll see other dolls as recurring characters. And I imagine dolls don't always survive their assignments.

Going by what Joss had to say about how the dolls are used, it's easy to imagine a whole host of scenarios involving gay storylines. A dying middle-aged man who never came out could hire a doll to give him the relationship he never had. A executive trying to steal computer secrets from a rival who happens to be gay could hire a doll to seduce him and steal the secrets. 

BTW, the Dollhouse set was amazing. Serious money was sunk into this puppy which resembles a very upscale spa with lots of wood paneling, plush carpets, perfect lighting and a couple of ominous touches including a very luxurious office overlooking the facility, plus several ominous rooms where those who control the dolls tend to hide out.

One other item that is sure to get notice are the dolls coed showers ala Starship Troopers with Casper Van Dien (pictured below).

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Let's just say I think Joss is willing to do what it takes to get decent ratings! Like the rest of the Dollhouse, the showers are circular, but with frosted glass Joss showed us the different styles they are trying out in order to be salacious, but not too salacious. Hey, if the guy has to show some skin, at least the ladies and gay boys won't be left out!

Seriously thought, his series has a lot of promise and I've got my fingers crossed Joss will do something interesting with all of it, but especially the gay angles. 

 

Mendicant's picture

Mark my words it'll be hot

Mark my words it'll be hot lesbian action beween eliza duska and someone else.
Psionycx's picture

Fanboys love lesbians

This was certainly the case on Buffy.  The Willow/Tara relationship was actually fine for them to have because the young straight male fanboy audience was far more likely to get excited, as opposed to offended, by two attractive young women being girlfriends.  It's kind of like the whole Tatu thing.

But two guys?  That would provoke lots of "Ewwwwwww...Gross!"  This is why the closest you got was the flamingly stereotypical Andrew whose sexuality was nonetheless still left ambiguous.

Metabaron's picture

Don't Count on it

 

Lesbians galore from Joss Whedon - Yes. Realistic Gay men in a relationship from Joss Whedon - NEVER. This is like the secret prejudices of Kathy Griffin. Nearly ALL Straight people consider Gay Male Relationships BEYOND THE PALE. EVEN JOSS WHEDON.

Since 1997, when Buffy began, WE HAVEN'T SEEN ONE Gay male relationship from Joss Whedon's television work. And we never will.

Andros's picture

Angel and Spike? It was

Angel and Spike? It was implied.

Joshua Norton's picture

Also Angel and Lindsey going at each other

gad huge homo-erotic undercurrents. Shwing!!!

Joshua Norton
San Francisco

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Psionycx's picture

Implication was cheap

Especially in the late-90's and early-00's.  Andrew was also implied to have been gay and in some kind of relationship, however dysfunctional, with one or both of his wannabe villain buddies.  But given Angel's and Spike's onscreen interest I don't think the implication was taken very seriously by most viewers outside the slash-writing community.

Lesbian's are a turn-on for straight fanboys, gay men are a gross-out.  Whedon knows how to play to his audience.

Randommer's picture

Afterellen spoke to him as

Afterellen spoke to him as well, and they have this quote:

 

AE: So, Eliza will be playing gay?
JW:
At some point, and not just Eliza. Female and male members of the cast will have engagements where we explore that. Sexuality isn't the only focus of the show, but it's a part of it.

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Metabaron's picture

So everyone is satisfied with...

mere implication?!

Ridiculous. It was NOT strongly implied. It was so obscura that if you weren't paying attention you would completely miss it. AND LINDSAY AND ANGEL NEVER HAD SEX WITH EACH OTHER AND NEVER WANTED TO.

I swear, everyone treats Joss Whedon like Barack Obama. No one's allowed to criticize him. Everything he does is golden.

NO. I'm sorry but these things have to be pointed out.

Psionycx's picture

He blinded everyone with Willow/Tara

Which I'm sure makes him popular over on AfterEllen.  However, I haven't seen much serious gay male friendliness from him.  Male homosexuality/bisexuality seems to be a matter of omission and innuendo in Whedon's shows.  There's enough of a hint there to satisfy the slash writers but not enough for anyone watching the show to see if they're not looking for it.  I think there was maybe one openly gay male student at Buffy's high school, but he got eaten by the Mayor or something to that effect.
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Reb's picture

RE: Gay kid in Buffy

Psionycx wrote:
I think there was maybe one openly gay male student at Buffy's high school, but he got eaten by the Mayor or something to that effect.

Yeah, there was the guy played by Fap Fillipo (Scott was his name, I think) who was gay but didn't come out until after he left the school/the show and was only mentioned by some vampire ex-friend of Buffy in season 7.

Lily of the valley's picture

the gay guy Psionycx meant

the gay guy Psionycx meant was Larry. He was introduced as a traditional footballer ( = major bully ) and was demonstratively into girls. In one episode xander suspected him to be the monster of the week and confronted him with something like "I know, I've been in the same situation" etc (meaning of course being the monster of the week) - as a result Larry came out to Xander as gay (and afterwards thinking Xander was gay too, much to Xander's discomfort)

He was part of the alternate scoobies in this alternate universe when Anya fullfilled Cordelia's wish (that Buffy had never come to Sunnydale).

He appeared in another episode, I'm not sure but I guess it was the one where Buffy could hear the other's thoughts and heard someone threatening to kill all ( I guess that was the episode that wasn't shown because of columbine) - and Xander again suspected Larry - who told him he had no reason to kill anyone, because he was out and proud now.

Sadly he got killed during the fight against the Major. I thought he was a great character and would've loved to see more of him. Especially as he wasn't a stereotypical gay character.

 There was a funny (well, funny - you know, if you're a geek and so on) quote of willow very much later, when amy was turned into a human again and wondered if Larry would take her to the prom: "Amy ... three things we have to talk about. One, Larry's gay. Two, Larry's dead. And three, high school's ... kinda over."


 

Aloe's picture

Joss is no gay hero

Lebians yes, gay boys no.

That pretty much sums up his philosophy. And I'm so sick of implication. Implied this and implied that. It's 2008 and it shouldn't be accepted anymore.

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Megh's picture

It's 2008

Buffy aired through 2003, Firefly was in 2003, and Angel ended in 2004. Four years have passed. We live in a country where circumstances demand a Nuke Liplock Clock, and most shows with gay content are stuck on cable. But Brothers and Sisters, Greek and Gossip Girls, among others, have shown that times are indeed changing in the US, and maybe Dollhouse will be allowed to show a lot more gay content than Whedon's previous shows.

In 2008, it would be cowardly to shy away from gay material, but in 2004, innuendo and implication might have been all a writer could get away with and stay on the air, even the WB. Could we maybe wait and see what Joss does in this new environment before screaming and passing judgement?

Psionycx's picture

And yet he managed to pull of Lesbians

In fact, in the famous muscial episode, there is an extremely risque scene.

Willow lays down on the bed singing, and Tara moves down her body, out of the camera's field of view.  Then Willow suddenly hits a high note!  It was pretty clear what was being implied!

I freely admit that my then-boyfriend and I squee'd like a couple of fangirls.

Now granted, that same event involving two guys would have provoked Congressional hearings about smut in the media.  We know there's a double-standard when it comes to lesbians on TV versus gay men.

Megh's picture

Double standard

(Actually, Tara was singing and Willow was the one doing the interesting things off camera.)

And that was new for TV, and an interesting and clever way of including that sort of innuendo. Hopefully, we won't/don't need that sort of subterfuge anymore (and I acknowledge that as subterfuge, only the very stupidest and innocent people weren't in on the joke, but the stupid people are usually the problem).

Also, I really hope that American TV producers start to look over at Europe and at the internet, and realize that there's as much of an audience for gay men on TV (Torchwood, Hollyoaks) as there is tolerance for lesbians.

Lily of the valley's picture

well yes - but actually I

well yes - but actually I always thought, whedon does what his geeky straight male self wants to see. As he told in interviews, he is most interested in men's faults and women's strenghts.

I'm not sure if strong gay male characters are what he's interested in (maybe weak ones - but I highly doubt they would be much liked around here - see andrew)

All his male characters have major flaws and are likeable and interesting to watch because of their flaws

On the other hand: his women for example - especially those on firefly ARE sort of superior female role-models (as in godess of war (zoe), ...of love (Inara), mothers (zoe), little sisters (kaylee, river), providers of traps only stupid hormone driven straight males would fall into (yo-saff-bridge) - but as a straight female I can tell you - though I really consider kaylee as a character I can relate to (one of about three I can relate to at all ever...) - with the excpetion of bridget, they are BORING. If zoe would be in charge everything would go as planned => BORING. Kaylee's opinion/behaviour is always the one that should be protected => BORING. They only get into interesting trouble/entertaining embarrassing situations because of the men (okay, Inara once, but only because she's in love with a man) not because of themselves => BORING, BORING, BORING

well, I have misplaced my english somewhere and it's late (2:25 am) where I live -> so what I want to say is: be careful what you wish Joss Whedon to provide. It might be interesting to watch - but not what you wanted - or more according to your own politics but boring... ;-)

Megh's picture

It's not about what I want

I'm interested in seeing what he's going to do, with four more years under his belt and a newer, more inclusive TV environment to work in.

I'm not a TV writer myself, so I keep my "I wants" in my fanfic, and trust the real writers for the most part (I just hope PJ Hammond never writes an episode of Torchwood, or anything, ever again). If they suceed, bully for us all. If they fail, the fault lies with them, and we stop watching.

GaySpouseDotCom's picture

Gay Male Characters Best Accepted When They're Masculine

Het guys generally dislike gay male characters because they are portrayed as feminine - drag queens, fey jester-gays, etc. And straight guys do not like seeing female traits in guys. Gay male characters would be better accepted by straight male audiences if writers stopped portraying gay male characters as fem as a way to make the het characters appear more masculine.

Captain Jack on Torchwood is a popular character who digs guys and his popularity among straight guys stems from his inability to run away from a fight, his ability to throw down when he needs to, and his ability to take a hit and get back into the battle. The kick-ass character of Omar Little on The Wire is another good example of a masculine gay character accepted by the straight male community. Warrior-gays, combat-gays, tough-gays, etc. uphold straight guys' ideals regarding males and thus fit better into their self perceptions about masculinity. A warrior-gay is someone even a straight guy might sleep with (kind of like sleeping with your favorite male sports hero) while jester-gays, effete-gays, and other fem-gays are in fact more threatening to straight male egos and expectations. There's a reason the movie 300 was so homo-erotic and popular.

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Aloe's picture

RIP Omar

You'll be missed.
Cameo's picture

Apparently the original

Apparently the original plan was to make Xander gay or bi not Willow. Which would have made more sence. As Xander seemed show more bi tendencies than Willow (aside from vamp Willow) prior to season 4. It kind of annoyed me that Willow was suddenly a Lesbian when she was clearly into guys and not girls in the first 3 seasons. I could have accepted her more if she had been bi. I think everyone's a little bit bi, and a lot of people exsplore thier sexuality in college. So discovering you're bi, sure. But discovering you're a Lesbian who only likes women when you've liked men in the past, huh?

Because the whole black and white veiw of sexuality is so annoying, and makes no sense, especially with someone like Willow. I can understand a character who's always been into one gender beliveing a black and white view because they have never been attracted to another gender. Willow has loved men and women, but after loving Tara she's just a Lesbian, that's all, no more attraction to men. WTF.

Xander however made sense as bisexual. He made comments in the first 3 seasons about male characters. He and Spike seemed to have chemistry of some sort. And I'm not saying this to push a slash pairing or anything. I'm just saying, Xander's history supported the idea he might exsplore his sexuality with men. The conversation with Larry forshadowed that he might actually have some homosexual feelings. Yeah he's not completly gay because its clear he thought about girls a lot. "naked girls, naked women, naked buffy".

But I again I say the whole making a character suddenly gay makes no sence. People don't turn gay. They might start out bi, and realize they are most comfortable with the oposite gender, but its not as simple as black and white gay or straight. Which is why I hated the Willow/Tara thing. (well that and I just didn't think the relationship was that interesting, or Tara as a character)