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News, Reviews & Commentary on Gay and Bisexual Men in Entertainment and the Media

Exclusive interview with "Survivor: Gabon"'s Marcus Lehman


Marcus Lehman (All photos courtesy of CBS)

Survivor is no stranger to the gays. The mother of all reality competition shows has even had two openly gay million-dollar winners: Richard Hatch in Season One and Todd Herzog in China. Just when we thought we'd seen it all, however, Survivor surprised us with a sweet hobromance -- a word we coined here at AfterElton.com to describe a close non-sexual friendship between a gay man and a straight man. Think Bronnie from Make Me A Supermodel.

Straight doctor Marcus Lehman and gay lawyer Charlie Herschel had an alliance from day one, but that wasn't all Charlie had. He also had a huge, obvious crush on his straight pal. The kicker was that Marcus was so completely comfortable with Charlie's affections.

Now, we don't want to fawn over the straight boy for being nice to the gay boy, but let's face it: That's not the normal model in our society, especially on television. Marcus was so completely comfortable with Charlie that at one point he even nibbled a piece of fruit off Charlie's shoulder.

After Marcus was blindsided at the last Tribal Council, we wanted to talk to him about his relationship with Charlie and where his enlightened attitude comes from. And is it possible that we haven't seen the last of Marlie?

Find out after the jump!

AfterElton.com: Congratulations on making it to the jury! Any regrets about throwing the idol away?
ML:
Honestly no. I mean, you can add that up a thousand different ways and there's no way it would ever add up to me staying for another round. As I've been telling everyone else, there was a one-in-ten chance of me ending up with it in the first place, [and] everyone would have known I had it, and...

AE: You would have been a target.
ML:
Yeah. It wouldn't have made sense at all. Really, the reality is I wouldn't have ended up with it, and if it ended up in Sugar's hands, or Matty's, or Crystal, Jenny or Susan's we would have had an even worse situation set up, so... Plus, how funny is it! I wish I could have been a fly on the wall when Jeff heard about it. I know he flipped out and it was hysterical.

AE: I guess it won't come as a big surprise to hear that you have a big gay following. Why do you think that is?
ML:
It's always cool to hear that people were excited about the show and me in particular. I guess it's because I became such great friends with Charlie. He's one of my best friends now. It was just such a joy to have met him on the show and had such a fun time with it. I hope that the gay community enjoyed the show and got a little fun out of my incident with the wardrobe malfunction. [Laughs]

AE: I was going to bring that up. How does it feel to know that your bits and pieces have been seen all over TV and the Internet?
ML:
Well, I hate to think that my grandmother saw that, but for me I think you just have to shrug it off and laugh. It's pretty funny that I can Google my penis and I'm not a porn star. Who can say that? It's kind of random. Some of the stuff that people have done, putting it to music, I mean, you all are geniuses. I think it's hysterical. You're incredibly creative with such a small piece of, uh, footage.

AE: Good thing you said footage.
ML:
[Laughs] Needless to say, I've changed brands of underwear since then. So no more incidents, hopefully.

Charlie Herschel, Marcus and Charlie

AE: How quickly did you realize that Charlie had a crush on you?
ML:
Honestly, man, Charlie didn't have a crush on me. We just hit it off right away. There was something about his demeanor and just the way he carried himself, that's what led me to pick him in the [first] place. We just had this great connection which really bore itself out. We have a ton of stuff in common, not all of which we shared on the show. I didn't tell him where I went to college. It was something to keep private. He didn't tell me he was a lawyer. We kind of held those things off, but he's an amazing guy. He's accomplished so much, and he has a great heart, and he's just so trustworthy.

 

Gosh! We just had a great connection. I think for us it was just more about developing a really unique friendship than him chasing after me or me flirting with him. There was no strategy there. We were just best friends out there.

AE: Did you know that you two got the nickname of Marlie on our site?
ML:
Oh! The combination of he and I? Awesome! Again, very clever.

AE: You seemed extremely comfortable with the fact that Charlie was smitten by you and even with showing physical affection. I think you won legions of gay fans when, early on, you interviewed that "I don't see any romance between Charlie and I. I think he's a great guy, you know. I can see that he's handsome and smart and all those things. I really can appreciate that about him. It's just not really the way I roll."
ML:
Yeah, I commend Charlie at the same time. He had to make certain adjustments. As a gay man, maybe it's possible that he did find me attractive, which would be very flattering and very nice, but knowing I would not be able to return the same affection it takes courage to be able to put yourself in that situation.

I've been in situations where I've been in love with somebody and she would never even give me the time of day. In that case, I can see that to maintain a friendship there are certain boundaries you have to set up, and things that you have to respect. I hope that people can appreciate that by now, my God, you can have a friendship between a gay man and a straight guy. I thought we were beyond that, but obviously with the voting of the recent few days that's not necessarily the case. But it was great, I'm so lucky to have met Charlie.

AE: Where do you come by your attitudes from? Was it the way you were raised or did you have a lot of gay friends?
ML:
I'll be honest, no. I grew up in the South which is a wonderful and educated place, but there are definitely some very tough ideas in the kind of place I grew up. Public high school is not the most welcoming place for gay people. We had some people who were courageous enough to be out at that time and it definitely gave me something to think about.

My parents have always been very open-minded. I grew up in a bicultural household and you learned to welcome other cultures and other mindsets. As somebody that would rather choose to love somebody than castigate them for something that I'm sure I could be punished for a hundred times over, it just seems silly. I don't know where that came from. I think it was just a combination of my experiences.

Then I moved to Atlanta which is a very progressive place and has a large gay community. I have a very good friend there who came out a couple years into our friendship. It didn't change him as a person. It just meant we hung out at a couple different places, but why not? I love these people. I love them as friends. Anyone who is my friend I care about whether they're black, white, gay, straight. It's just nuances, something to appreciate about them and something to add to our friendship.

AE: There have been a lot of homophobic remarks on CBS's Survivor forums, with some people saying they think the friendship between you and Charlie is disgusting, and they'd like to punch him in the face. What would you say to someone like that?
ML:
I don't say a lot. I don't think you're ever going to reach somebody who's going to make a public fool of themselves that way. They clearly have places to grow, and I think we're all works in progress so why point out the plank in their eye when I have splinters in my own?

It bothers me that Charlie gets the brunt of it. Punch me in the face. I'm half of this relationship and I'm not afraid to stand up for that. How can you blame one person in the relationship? That already shows how ridiculous you are. It's frustrating and upsetting but, gosh, if I've had a time in my life where I made a rude comment based on something inappropriate and then come to appreciate people for the inner person they are, then all I can hope is those people are on the same path and they'll end up where we'd all like to see them be. I can just only hope for the best. I hate to say it, but it's the world we live in and it's always going to be there in some form.

AE: Many of our readers look at you as a sort of role model for straight men. How do you feel about that?
ML:
Man, that's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day. I'm incredibly humbled that somebody would think that the way I choose to treat other people would be something admirable. All I can say is thanks. I'm speechless. I don't know. That's awesome. I hope more of that can come out, I guess.

Charlie, Marcus and the "Onion" alliance

AE: So you and Charlie are still friends?
ML:
Absolutely. I've got a couple best friends in the world, and he's definitely become one of them. It's one of the things you have to realize about the show. If you think about it mathematically, if you meet somebody you hang out with them a couple hours a week. Well, we hung out with each other twenty-four hours straight. You pack a two-month relationship into one day. I feel like I've had a five-year friendship with Charlie and we really only hung out for a few weeks. I think that he's such a genuinely good person I hope he's a part of my life for a long time. We're also campaigning heavily to be on the Amazing Race, if that's possible.

AE: We'll be rooting for that!
ML:
That would be awesome.

AE: Thank you so much for talking to us, and for being such a great guy and role model.
ML:
Thank you. I'm really honored to be a part of your site. It's really nice to hear that. Thanks a lot.

AE: Good luck with The Amazing Race. We'll be watching for you!
ML:
Thanks, man. I appreciate it.

Gloria's picture

Charming...

What a wonderful interview. I love the sincerity of Marcus' words, and I don't understand why so many Survivor fans have been so quick to jump on him and label him as 'arrogant.' It was very refreshing to see this kind of dynamic on TV, unlike so many homophobic shows. While I'm sure many viewers were hoping for a 'hook up' induced by merge wine, its so nice to see that they're such close friends outside of the show. I wonder what he thought of the editing job if he didn't believe Charlie had a crush on him. Nonetheless I am PSYCHED if they make it onto the Amazing Race, which I happen to love significantly more than Survivor. I think we need to start a petition from CBS now!

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Guillermo Serritiello's picture

Marcus from Survivor rocks. Charlie + Marcus on TAR? Priceless

Michael, you are so busted! "Many of our readers, including myself..." I agree with you of course, although I am not a fan of the word "role model," but it's just semantics.

If anyone has any doubt how much Marcus likes/respects Charlie, also check out this interview that he gave to reality blurred:

http://www.realityblurred.com/realitytv/archives/survivor_gabon/2008_Nov_07_marcus_eliminated_interview

Here are a couple of nuggets from the linked interview:

On Charlie: “Charlie and I had a fantastic friendship. He arguably will be one of my best friends for a very, very long time. He’s an amazing, special guy. … He said he’s not sure why a million girls aren’t after [me, but] I’m not sure why a million guys aren’t after him. I’m sure they probably are. So you can see and appreciate all that stuff, but it was really cool to have the friendship, and it was so appreciated in a place that can be as lonely as the Survivor situation, where everyone can be your enemy.” Marcus insisted that Charlie would have gone to the end with him. “I would never sell him out because we really just had so much in common and such great, great interaction together. So grateful for that.”

On the editing of his relationship with Charlie: “I was glad that CBS kind of gave us a little bit of a nod in that they acknowledged that we were having a friendship, although they spent a lot of time trying to make it like Charlie was in love with me while I depended upon Charlie as much as he depended upon me..."

Talk about a mutual admiration society! I am bummed that Marcus and Charlie got separated and that Marcus got side-blinded. But my boy Charlie is still in and starting to show some major gamesmanship of his own. Go Charlie!!!!  

Guillermo's Media Guillotine: Entertainment, journalism, politics, and popular culture.

http://springintoaction.typepad.com

bambino italiano's picture

Yes!! Please keep us posted about Marlie on Amazing Race.

I will fully support them on the show. Two great guys and two great friends.
inanna's picture

Marcus was a rarity on

Marcus was a rarity on Survivor. A good looking, smart, athletic, straight white guy who was not brimming over with a sense of entitlement. And the only one in recent memory I was actually rooting for. Never once did I feel like punching him in the face (see every other Survivor guy who fit the above description - or girl (hi Corinne)).
FAII's picture

Let's hope Charlie ends up

Let's hope Charlie ends up in the Final 3 (he and Corinne can bitch it out (in a good way) and maybe get Sugar in on it and wham bam, Final 3 of the Clashing Personalities. Once there, Marcus can be the  deciding vote to award victory to Charlie and they can share a very Marlish moment to celebrate the victory.
Gabrielle's picture

What a humble, genuine and

What a humble, genuine and sweet guy Marcus is! I definitely wish the other straight guys would think like he does. I'm really sad that he got voted off like that. I was really hoping for him to win! :(

Anyways, I hope at least that Charlie wins for us now.

 

Tony's picture

Go Marcus

What a wonderful attitude. With guys like Marcus out there it kinda dulls the pain slightly of Prop 8 etc.

I guess I also cringe a bit at the assumption that Charlie must have a crush on Marcus, which Marcus actually denies. Just as it's possible for a gay man and a str8 man to be friends - it is also possible for a gay man to be friends with another man - gay or str8 - without having a 'crush' on him.

Ana's picture

True colors

After watching the new clip of Marcus, Charlie, and Corinne giving Crystal the silent treatment at Ponderosa, I'm just disgusted. Where does _this_ enlightened attitude come from? Kindergarten?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3l_6j0tOLo

Thank you, Marlie, for showing us that a straight man and a gay man can be friends as long as they're both petty douchebags. Or as long as one of them is too spineless to call out his "friends" on their bad behavior. A gay-straight buddy team would be great on The Amazing Race, but if it's these two clowns, I'm changing the channel.

Anonymous's picture

Why Be Fake and Nice? Grown people get to chose their friends.

Marcus has every reason to never speaking to Crystal again after the way she behaved towards him in the competition. She played the game, she got caught out there and now she's paying the price for her choices.

If Marcus doesn't want to speak to her again, that's his right. It's not like he's throwing pineapples at her head or putting snakes in her bed.

It would be completely fake for him to act like "all is forgiven".

Better he should ignore her than cuss her out on a daily basis (because that's what I'd want to do)

He doesn't like her. He's not required to speak to her. He's a grown man. Period.

Charlie has every right to decide to speak to Crystal or not depending upon what works for him. If he wants to support Marcus as his friend, that's his choice. No one is obligated to be nice to someone who isn't nice to them.

Crystal has no redeeming features what-so-ever and her whole "I'm above all of this" attitude is something she adopted upon arriving at the Ponderosa so as not to appear that her feelings are hurt. Fine, let her. The proof is in the pudding and the way she behaved during the competition doesn't just dissappear just because she's no longer in the game.

I also DO NOT think that Charlie and Marcus are responsible for what Corinne says and does. She is a horror. She is an idiot. She is a snob. She is completely without use. She is also an individual who is responsible for her own behavior (despite her constantly prattling on like she and Charlie and Marcus are some bizarre three-some set).  They've known each other for what, a month?  It's not like CHARM are her parents.

If Crystal doesn't like how Corrine  is treating her then she needs to be a woman and step to her and tell her so or ignore her.   

I don't know if Charlie and Marcus have had the opportunity to see and hear everything that Corinne does when they aren't around but I imagine it would be enlightening to them because I think she sings a very different song when they are around (she's a lot more "real" when she's alone with Randy even).

 

"Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common." (Dorothy Parker)

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vm54's picture

No reason not to be civil...

I'm with Ana on this one -- this is a challenge that REQUIRES that you outwit and deceive the others to get to the end and hopefully win. To be upset that you were sidelined before you had the opportunity to throw one of the others under the bus is just absurd. I can understand feeling unhappy or disappointed, but to shun a fellow contestant who's been through all the same deprivations and hardships is childish and uncivilized.

There's probably little doubt that Corinne poisoned the well at Ponderosa and turned the others into 13-year-old 7th graders who won't let the uncool kids sit at their table in the lunchroom.

From an article discussing this very issue (and states it better than I can):

However, I am disgusted by Charlie! He is an openly gay man in a society that does not normally welcome that lifestyle. He has the courage to take that stance and deal with the ramifications of it. He can deal with the public distrust, the intra-family issues, the ignorant jokes from stupid recappers like me, and those who would like to cause him bodily harm because of the lifestyle he leads, but he can’t even stand up to three people who he has known for one short month and who he never has to see again if he so chooses! On top of that, he admits it’s wrong, says it makes him feel bad. Yet he still does it!

Full article: 

http://www.realitynewsonline.com/cgi-bin/ae.pl?mode=1&article=article8580.art&page=1 

 

Outside the context of the game, Crystal would probably be 50 times the friend the ghastly, judgemental Corinne could ever be. Grow a pair, Charlie!

Link to videos below:

http://www.cbs.com/primetime/survivor/video/ponderosa.php 

 

Anonymous's picture

i was really hoping for a

i was really hoping for a Charlie Marcus team-up for TAR but from the interview that  the casting director gave its not looking good for the boys at all :(

These tv people would not know a good entertaining team if it hit them in the face.

Anonymous's picture

I See So Because Charlie is Gay He Is Obligated to be Nice?

Is that how it works because I'm a dyke and am NOT always nice.

See that's what I'm getting at. There is a "special" expectation of Charlie because he's gay. Oh, he should be grateful for not being judged. Oh, he should be grateful that Marcus befriended him. Oh he should know better because he has suffered prejudice.

Piffle!

It seems like Charlie and Marcus became friends because they have stuff in common and they get along. Just, the same way most people because friends. We can't say for sure but that's what it seems like. It also seems like they tolerate Corinne because she was part of their alliance.

I Don't Actually Know why because I can't imagine any circumstance under which anyone would want to spend a single second with her unless they were being paid to do so. But that's just me.

No one watching this show actually knows, personally, any of these people so folks are just projecting what they would do or think they would do in this situation onto complete strangers.

We have NO IDEA how Crystal would or wouldn't act outside of this show. We KNOW how she behaved during the competition. If Charlie and Marcus want to hold it against her, it's is their right and I think completely justified.

Yes you have to lie and scheme and doubletalk in order to win the game. Unavoidable. But there are consequences for every kind of behavior and that's what folks are feeling at Ponderosa. Human nature.

Grown people get to chose who they hang with, with whom they associate, who they chose to call their friends.

We as the viewers really are not in a place to judge them at that level because we don't know what happened, we don't actually know why certain folks become friends and others don't.

We're not watching every single player 24/7.

Being gay does not deny you of your individuality. If Charlie wasnts to give Crystal shade (even if it is just out of loyalty to Marcus) that is his choice.

What does his being gay have to do with anything?

Gay and lesbian people do not OWE it to society to be nice just because someone isn't trying to burn us at the stake.

People should be nice to someone because they are inclined to do so. Period.

I as a black dyke I can tell you that no one is going to make me bow and scrape and walk holding my tongue and being "fake nice' because I am SOOOOO grateful the folks aren't discrimnating against me.

If Charlie genuinely likes Crystal and has chosen to ignore her anyway, well he has just as much right as anyone ask to act like a horses behind.

Heterosexuality is not normal, it's just common." (Dorothy Parker)


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