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"Forbidden Love" video clip update: Christian would look good in a beard!
We don't normally post on weekends, but to help soap fans deal with the fact that Van Hansis didn't win an Emmy during Friday night's Emmy awards, I thought I'd post the latest Ollian clip to console you. Oh, who am I kidding? I just wanted to watch it myself so figured I might as well share it with everyone. Things are sticky for Christian as rumors of his sexuality continue to dog his boxing career. The appropriately named Axel stops by No Limits to inform Christian he doesn't fight queers.
If Axel keeps that attitude up, he just might finding himself a "faggot" whether he likes it or not since Olli isn't going to take his insults lying down. When Olli gets in Axel's face, Axel comments that Christian's "faggot" is getting feisty to which Olli says:
You tell him, Olli! I appreciate that the show isn't dodging the fact that Christian is encountering homophobia in the boxing ring, but aren't making him and Olli passive victims. Plus we get one and a half more Ollian kisses nicely keeping the fact that they are a real gay couple more than just an abstract notion. Too bad U.S. television doesn't do as good a job of dealing with gay sexuality and homophobia as this one German soap. And Olli continues to show how much he cares about Christian as he's the one who dreams up a way for Christian to shake the gay rumors. Of course, this being a soap opera, Olli's plan just might backfire, but we won't think about that just now. You can see the clip after the break, and as always, many thanks to Nanna and The Gays Of Daytime for posting and translating! Submitted by on Sat, 2008-06-21 10:31. |
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Friday's Verbotene Liebe
This last installment was very cute in a lot of ways.
I think it's funny that Axel (who looks like he should be wearing a Nazi uniform) and the other homophobic boxers are all depicted as dull-witted knuckle-draggers. Clearly the writers want to make homophobia look like a trait belonging mostly to low-class, uneducated types.
What was really great though was the way that Gregor and Olli have linked up in plotting to advance Christian's career. Gregor, despite Christian's fears, has no problems relating to Olli as his brother's partner. That's really nice to see.
Christian seems to relish being free to show affection with Olli, even in front of Gregor now. The hallway scene was really cute. It's sad that even when Nuke are being "romantic" they don't manage to look happy about it the way that Ollian do. Christian and Olli are playful, affectionate and kiss each other simply for the sake of kissing. That they're a couple and in love is self-evident from their behavior and it's a joy to watch.
I'm actually a bit uneasy
I'm actually a bit uneasy by how cardboard the depiction of homophobia is. I can't help but think that it would actually be scarier if they spent the time to go a bit more into the group dynamics of how homophobia works. But I guess it's a soap opera and they aren't always known for subtetly particularly when they are in a hurry.
I was very glad that Gregor and Olli were in on the beard plan together. Still, I can't wait for Monday's episode when we'll get Christian and Fabian's undoubtedly displeased reactions. Since I'm more into the meaty relationship interaction and drama, the fallout is much more interesting to me than the build up.
Cardboard Homophobia
Actually, as I mentioned below, I think there's also a social class element at work here as. Axel and his guys are shown as having a knee-jerk hostility to everything outside the bounds of their social circle. For example, Christian being in college.
Homophobia isn't exclusive to hostility towards actual gay people. You see very much, especially in some macho cultures, hostility towards anything beyond working class, stereotypically masculine behavior. You see a huge amount of this in African-American subculture currently, with the result that far more black women are going to and graduating from college than black men. Studying and getting an education are not very "manly" in some people's eyes.
Paranoia about homosexuality also runs very high in environments that are strongly gender-stratified. For example, I went to a college where males vastly outnumbered females and homophobia was rampant. This boxing subculture seems to be the same way. As much as Wolle likes flirting with beautiful women (who are repulsed by him) he was upset at the violation of a male space by models and their makeup artist hangers on. A violation of the sanctity of homophobic, misogynistic male space.
Now, granted a lot of what we're seeing on the show is subtextual, but that's because this storyline on the show centers on Christian, not on the topic of homophobia. VL is focused on the characters and not on social issues except as they fit into the storylines with the characters. So I don't think we'll see a deep study of the dynamics of homophobia, other than it being depicted as a very low-class behavior (as embodied in Wolle, Axel, etc.).
Kinda reminds me of the
Kinda reminds me of the discussions about "salonfähig". I'm not sure if it is the same in Germany, but in Austria whenever there is a tricky topic like homophobia, racism, anti-semitism, there is always the discussion about whether it is "salonfähig" (meaning something along the lines of "something you can say at a tea party" though it often goes into the direction of "an opinon that can be held by a politician or other person in a position of power"). It builds on the idea that even if there are things that might not strictly be illegal (though many might border to it), there are certain opinions that are not "proper" to be held in a public setting.
Whenever somebody makes a radical statement immediately come the cries that that person is trying to make racism/sexism/homophobia/anti-semitism "salonfähig" aka making it a valid opinion to be held by non-worthless people. It's kind of the liberal equivalent of "think of the children". So if some celebrity makes a racist statement there is usually a call for him to apologize, but less for hurting the victims but for giving the impression that it would be proper to say these kind of things and encourage others to immitate his behavior. (basically it's an elaborate shunning system)
I always thought that it speaks to a slightly double-headed attitude. The idea that you can't really stop people from being racist/homophobic/anti-semistic or having racist/homophobic/anti-semistic thoughts, but that the "proper" thing to do is to suppress it in public or not commit any acts that reflect this attitude that you might have in the privacy of your own mind. Like, be racist/homophobic/anti-semistic if you have to be, but act on all accounts if you weren't (well, except for going and secretly voting for the party that represents your opinion in the privay of the voting booth).
Maybe this attitude towards Wolle and co subconciously reflect this attitude. They and their opinions are portrayed as just being "beneath" proper society and there is at least at the moment no attempt made at all to communicate with them or try to change their minds (like "Christian proves himself through superior fighting skills and being highly honorable, thus changing the minds of Wolle and Axel and they grudgingly accept him").
Actually Lola
That sounds like an excellent hypothesis and I wish we had a German or two on hand to offer a perspective on it.
Wolle was depicted as an extremely loathsome individual. The same is being done with Axel and his friends. The subtextual intention here might be that homophobic behavior is reflective of the person lacking morals, social graces or both. Wolle is shown as being corrupt (encouraging the use of steroids in sport) and Axel is implied to be uneducated (and scornful of educated people). This is contrasted to the positive attitudes of people like Gregor, Judith, Charlie, etc.
One could infer that the message being conveyed by the writers to the audience is that homophobia is something that one should expect to see only in very low-minded people who are not worthy of being emulated.
It's a very interesting point you bring up.
Well that are some more
Well that are some more sophisticated villains who also use gay taunts (for example Ansgar teasing his sister Carla [or teasing Lars for having a baby with a lesbian]) but it's usually fairly obvious that it's just to get a rise out of the people in question rather than actually giving a shit about homosexuality.
It if interesting though that Carla went trough a huge one year bearding storyline to hide her homosexuality from her family patriarch father and when he found out it was pretty much an amplified Gregor situation where he was angry that she deceived him for so long but didn't actually care about who she slept with or married.
I have to say though:
() Isn't it always like that on soaps? I know both mothers of the US gay teen characters went though "I have to cure my child" phases, but in general aren't the good characters supposed to come around and be accepting and open minded while only evil characters are supposed to be unforgivingly mean. I mean just like they wouldn't allow any of the good characters to be racist, right?
() I'm still not convinced that it is such a good idea or good attitude. It just seems smarter to me to explore it on a deeper level (and better drama too) rather than just chalk it off to cardbordism. (though yes, I think the motivation is that VL doesn't really care much about homophobia and wants to go right for the meat of the drama that arises between Ollian and Fabian/Judith about honesty, betrayal, secrecy and what not)
Axel is a closet case!
Psionycx! What a fantastic name. Certainly a great deal better than Chrolli fan!
I think Axel (Nazi boy) is a closet homosexual. Here's my indisputable proof: (Please tell me you didn't take that seriously!)
1) He tries to flirt with Olli by throwing nuts (?) at him.
2) That is a very gay shirt he's wearing in this episode. A macho boxer wearing a flowery shirt???? I've yet to see one.
3) He obviously takes very good care of his skin. Nazi boy's using moisturizer.
4) He asks Chris whether they (C&O) make out with tongues. Hmmmm, sounds like Nazi boy wants to have some fun too.
So, there you have it. Nazi boy wants C&O! Not one, but two hot guys. Greedy pig. He'll probably admit his feeling to Chris, and try to kiss him (just like Olli did to Chris). C's then confused, again, and tries to hide the truth. Olivia, however, has seen it. Bitch can't shut up though, and tells Olli. Big confrontation. O punches C, then punches A, then slaps bitch (He's a gentleman, and doesn't punch a woman!) C runs after O, says sorry, makes love, a lot, Judith doesn't get any sleep. The guys are humping like gorillas, and she ain't gettin any cause she can't decide between fish lips and Cons! Seriously girl, you blind or what? J runs to C, bores him to death with her sesqipedalian monologue excoriating fish lips for being robotic and Cons for being too girly( he's too romantic). C's on the verge of becoming brain dead (there's only so much that a dude can take from a girl that yacks away non-stop. Just kidding!) And on and on the saga of VL continues.
OK, got a bit carried away. But seriously, all of the above was said in jest. Hope no one takes it the wrong way.
Peace.
Chrolli Fan.
um, i know it's a soap....
i know it's a soap and whatnot....but college is for sissies? uh....does that really have to do with homophobia? i mean, i am sitting here like "huh? that's supposed to be an insult?"
eh, it was weird to me.
I think it was meant to show
I think it was meant to show Axel and the Neanderthals off as uneducated losers. There seems to me to be something more going on here than just the sexuality issues.
Christian doesn't appear to fit into this boxing subculture very well. He has very high-minded ideals about the sport that have taken a beating with the revelation of rampant steroid abuse. He's in college, whereas it looks like Axel & Co are barely educated. Christian is intelligent, social and a regular guy, as opposed to a low-life thug who goes to bars just to look for trouble. Axel and his thugs don't look like they have many options in life beyond boxing whereas Christian does. Hence their angry thug routine. Today on VL: class warfare.
All of these issues are on top of the sexuality thing. So I'm left wondering if they're not planning on carrying on the whole boxing storyline forever and are subtly underlining reasons why Christian doesn't belong in that world. Reasons that go beyond being bisexual.
That certainly is what struck me about the steroid thing because that sub-plot would have been just as applicable if Christian were still with Coco as it was with Olli. It really had nothing to do with being in a relationship with a man.
Weekends
Thank goodness for a weekend post. A lot of sites have taken to five day work weeks, and it makes my weekends so dull!
I liked Christian's little hand gesture there the first time he turns away from Axel; it looks like he wants to touch Olli for support and then thinks better of it and gives him a friendly and more ambiguous tap instead. Sort of like the way his first reaction when Wolle saw him hugging Olli was to pull Olli closer before he thought of some way to respond to Wolle. It's a nice way of reinforcing the security of their relationship to show that when he feels threatened, Christian immediately turns to Olli.
I have missed Ollian this past week....
After the last episode I was wondering when they would be on next. Missed them.
I am really glad to see how comfortable and proud Christian is becoming about being gay...and the love he shows to Olli is wonderful to watch. I agree I wish our soaps were as comfortable showing two regular guys in love....Love doesn't have gender as a requirement...
And I am also happy with how comfortable Judith is with Ollian...Judith to the rescue and the look on Christian's face was priceless....it's really wonderful to see how much support he has in his life from good friends, Olli and Gregor.
I just hope that they will
I just hope that they will deal with the beard storyline as matter of factly as they did with Gregor finding out about Christian. Though if they wanted to play out the beard storyline longer, I think that either Miriam or Olivia would have been a better choice with an eye in the direction of the most humoristic potential.
Judith is a nice girl, but how fun is that to watch really? Watching Miriam or Olivia constantly almost messing up their cover would be more fun than having to watch Judith waste away with guilt and look teary eyed at Fabian and beg his forgiveness.
I wonder if Fabian even knows about Ollian or if he finds out only now when Judith tells him the reason for her stunt? Monday can't come soon enough.
No, the problem...
..is that Miriam is so dense she might not understand she's only supposed to be a pretend girlfriend.
As for Olivia, she would probably enjoy the charade too much and insist on french kissing Christian every chance she got, as well as groping him appropriately and otherwise behaving like a tramp. This would doubtless break down even Olli's patience.
Sure but it would be funny!
Sure but it would be funny to see them try Ollian's patience. And they would be automatic insurance that Christian would never even be tempted to go straight with any of them even if it makes his life easier with the boxers.
I guess I just fear that the whole Fabian/Judith/Christian/Olli thing waill evolve mostly into all of them sitting around and being sad and unhappy and feeling guilty even if there is never an inkling of Judith and Christian hooking up.
I actually wouldn't mind seeing a realistic portrayal of alibi relationships and what goes on psychologically with all parties involved. But since VL probably doesn't have the time to really do an extensive realistic potrayal of the boxing scene I'm not holding my breath for that to happen (since all the boxing stuff is kind of outside the type of storylines they usually do). Besides, they already did an extensive bearding storyline with Carla who married a guy who was somewhat the male equivalen of Olivia to deceive her father and stayed married to him for almost a year with their storyline mostly centering around her trying to evade his snooping teenage daughter. Of course at that time Carla wasn't really dating anybody she loved (her first big love ended before she married Bernd and her second great love only came around when she was already divorcing Bernd).
VL will always get huge credit in my eyes for the way they never backed away from portraying Carla as a 100% lesbian despite the fact that she has been front burner for pretty much the last 5 years and the actress had great chemistry with a lot of the guys in the cast too.
I missed Ollian so much
I missed Ollian so much this past week, glad to see it back. And another solid episode.
Wow, this boxing storyline really has many paths it could take. There is so much that could happen. Let me throw out a couple of scenerios:
First, by no means have we seen the last of Wolli...Axel was certainly out of place at NoLimits, but it's obvious he was sent over by Wolli to intimidate Christian. Lets remember, Christian has threatened Wolli with expose of his illegal steroid tactics. This puts Christian in a pretty dangerous position. Wolli is suppose to be a pretty powerful boxing promoting who has his men, if needed. Now, by the looks of the spoilers I have seen, there could be a reveal on Christian's 'big boxing night.' If it's what it looks like, and Christian comes clean about his relationship with Olli in the middle of that boxing ring, this could open up a pandora's box. Wolli will be filled with rage because 'his boy' Axel just lost to a man who has threatened to throw him into the river, and now reveals his gay. He will want nothing more than to get revenge on Christian, and what better way than to go after Olli. I think the NoLimits scene and the picking on Olli was included for a good reason, and could be forwarning of what is to come. The writers could also go the route of showing just how deep homophobia runs in the area of sports, especially in boxing, the most macho sport around, and is the main reason why those athletes who choose to come out wait until after they have retired from their field. This sports storyline has the potiental to be explosive.
I so love the way Olli and Christian are being written...just so in love. I really appreciate the little touches we get from all involved in VL in demonstrating just how much these two are in love. The hallway display was just sweet. Olli so in love with Christian that he wants to just scoop him up, swing him around and then fill his face with loving kisses. Also, Christian, so proud of Olli that he wants nothing more then to show the world how much he loves this man. But of course not right now has Gregor reminded him what line of career his in.
Another detail i've noticed is how the wardrobe department have often dressed Olli and Christian in matching colors. I first notice it in the now famous post bedroom scene on April 4th with the contrasting boxers, and I have since seen it a few times again in past episode where Olli and Christian have on the same colours but different shades. Then you see it in this episode with Olli in white shirt with green design, and Chirstian in green Tshirt with white design. Very cute indeed. And only one of many reasons this love story is such a beauty.
I'm thinking the same thing.
I'm trying to avoid spoilers, but I have a feeling the result of Christian coming out in the ring after beating Axel will lead to a violent, vengeful, homophobic reaction...but in an ironic way, one that should provide plenty of melodrama.
Check out my blog: http://radicalsexy.blogspot.com/
yep...
yep, i also am thinking that christian coming out might have some very not so good consequences....but i dont think the spoilers have said much in detail about that episode...have they? hm...i'll go re-check on that...
I don't know about the spoilers for that episode
I'm just making an assumption based on 1) the photos we've seen from that episode and 2) how I would write it...if you've ever seen Mrs. Miniver (1942), you might have an idea of what I'm thinking...only less tragic.
Check out my blog: http://radicalsexy.blogspot.com/
Personally, I would rather
Personally, I would rather see how this kind of conflict with the boxing community plays out long term, what shunning from the community does to a career and in what ways they could hinder Christian and what kind of mental stress that can cause in a person and in a relationship. To me that would be much more interesting than going for a gay bashing storyline.
That said, it seems rather doubtful that VL has the time and interest in a storyline that goes on this long. (after all it's not like we really see Sarah competing in piano competitions or see Leonard at the hospital unless it serves a plot point)
interesting as always
The calibre of acting and writing on this show is really good.
I admired Christian and Ollie's response to the homophobia. You can tell that, even though they're bothered by the comments, both the guys are coming from a place of strength. (I don't mean physically, but mentally.) I'm sure it is encouraging for many people who watch the show.
I agree with Lola that Olivia would have been a funnier choice for a beard, but I hope that the Judith story will go along okay. I just hope that Ollie will not get angry and resentful of Judith being Christian's beard. I know some American soaps sometimes use the device of having one partner come up with the very scheme that will make them jealous and resentful. For example: "Tell your ex-wife to come live with us and be part of our family... Wait, why are you spending so much time with your ex-wife? You don't love me!"
If they are going for conflict within the relationship, a more subtle way to do it would be to show the tensions that arise from a lot of lying, without necessarily having to blame each other.
I just watched this episode
I just watched this episode again, and if i'm not mistaken, wasn't Judith instructed by Gregor and Olli that the bearding would just involve some hand holding...So it's no wonder you see Olli in the background with a look of WTF!! we said just hand holding!! LOL. Anyway, I loved all the reactions on their faces. Even Gregor had this smug look and smile aimed at the lower life form of Axel and Co. when Judith was kissing Christian.
Can't wait for Monday's episode to see how Christian reacts to this bearding plot.
haha
Gregor was my favorite part during the last scene. i like when axel says "ah, the rest of the fags are here" and we see christian look back and gregor is sort of flicking his fingers and has this expression like "i'm just gonna chill here..yeah…just chilling here behind my brother…yep”
eh, it’s just amusing to me. I mean, he just looks very calm which is funny because I would be all up in their faces if they were treating my brother like that.
Ha..so I didn't imagine
Ha..so I didn't imagine that look on Olli's face. (lucky girl). But if I had been Olli, I would be all "WTF"? as well. :) Keep your lips off girl..LOL
Seriously, I just can't believe how attached I am to these two men. Although, I'm fully aware that they are television characters, Jo and Thore have throughly convinced me that Christian and Olli are completely in love. Their chemistry melts the screen and the love shines through. Especially through Jo's eyes. He's amazing.
I'm a bit worried about the beard scenario. Soap Operas (at least the American ones have a way of ruining a perfectly good thing) They have to create more drama and I'm really hoping that they don't go the way of most soaps and start to destroy this absolutely wonderful beautiful relationship that the ENTIRE world is beginning to love for the sake of some drama. I don't want a triangle. I want it to stay only Olli and Christian with no inkling of ANYTHING between Judith and Christian. I really hope they don't go there.
Also, FYI, if you guys have a my space, I created one for Christian and Olli fans to help promote the show. Just go there and after the dot com put a slash and "christianandolli" . Come friend us if you are into the myspace. :) (I hope you guys at AE don't mind that I posted this). Thanks!
good news
Same-sex marriage is legal in Massachusetts and, after a May 15 court ruling, California. Last month, New York state pledged to honor same-sex marriages from other states and countries.
It is really a good news for GLBT. One of my friends, who found her another part on the online community http://bisexualmingle.com, decided to get married recently. Hope they have a great marriage life.
thank you....