Hell hath no fury like a Nuke fan scorned!

"Frankly, I just don't feel like turning a blind eye to cowardice. If we do, then what are we going to get next?"

So don't turn a blind eye.

However, Michael also wrote this in his blog post:

"But how many folks also wrote and called CBS to say how much they love Nuke and appreciate the show is doing what no one else will?"

Yes, how many of those same people who are incensed at "mistletoe-gate" actually contacted CBS an/or P&G to express their appreciation and support for the Nuke storyline?

As the saying goes, "you can attract more flies with honey than with vinegar".

Thank you I feel the same way

"Jon, where and when did Van tell fans to write P&G?"

A fan talked to him after a performance of Die Mommie Die and asked him about the lack of affection. Van repeatedly said to write to P&G and basically said the naysayers have a loud voice.

No offense, but if you spent less time laughing at people here and more time reading about this story, you might know what was going on in that even Van himself may have concerns.

On one hand, it's amazing for me to finally see gay representation on a show that I've been watching for so many years. No one had a clue when the ATWT show-runners decided to make one of the core family's children gay, that the response would be so favorable.

Any long-term fan (straight or gay) will probably attest that Luke and even Noah are really are on oddity in a show that has become a grim place where previously independent women have all been turned into doormats and the men who used to court them spend their days judging them. Carly Tenney used to be a goddess a la Samantha Stephens from Bewitched, and now she’s still on life support as the death sentence misdiagnosis was lonely taken literally. I huge almost stopped watching the show not because of the lack of action between Luke and Noah, but due how horrible the rest of the show is and makes me feel.

In the end for me it comes down to mismanagement and that the show runners are not listening to the feedback that they are receiving from every source that they have. Fans want a happier show that respects the history of the characters and those calls have gone mostly unanswered for over two years. I am not one to settle for crumbs, but starting to come to the realization that this may be as good as it gets and (when seen as part of the whole) it's astounding that Luke and Noah came to life and have, paralysis aside, not yet been destroyed.

With regard to Luke and Noah, I think that all the scenes leading to yesterday's off screen kiss were so romantic and simply hearing Luke say "I am so in love with you" or "I am in love with you" gave me shivers as Van Hansis is a breath of fresh air and who makes me fall in love with him falling in love with Noah. I feel like I am 12 again. On a typical ATWT day, if Jack and Carly had been CAUGHT under the mistletoe, he would criticized her yet again and would have made making threats to take her children away and that she's never there for the family and never follows his INSTRUCTIONS. Or they would have made out and then would be fighting for no reason in the next scene.

While, I did not like seeing the camera pull away from them as they kissed, it can't take away from the fact that Luke and Noah are the show's most functional, least bipolar, most supportive "couple." It’s funny to call them that as they have not been shown acting like a couple, but like buds. The show is in such dire straits that I'll take their kind of love over ANY other alleged couple of the show.

Having said that, I think that (possibly) our collective reaction may have had to do more with the fact that this leading couple is never on, than on the actual camera pull away. Had Luke and Noah been shown kissing in the many opportunities that have manifested themselves, maybe the pullaway could have been seen as old-fashioned “cute” and not as as "State of the Union" of sorts as one never knows when our guys will be shown again.

I think that a fair question would be to ask why they are rarely on, as all their screen time need not be centered on physical intimacy. Their popularity is a given, so why not show them studying with baby-crazed Will and Gwen or something.

Another question that I think is worth asking would be that if, assuming that there is any pressure whatsoever about bringing down the heat on this couple's lust, would it not make more sense to show them kissing more often in ways to desensitize any viewers who may not be ready for what’s already been shown. The kisses don't all have to be whoppers.

Why do we get 4 or 5 straight days of Katie/Jack/Carly/and babies, babies, and more babies, and not more Luke and Noah hugging after Luke walks or even giving him a sweet kiss on the forehead. I am starting to believe that this may be a healthy way to go. We'll be happy to see them more often, thus lessening our expectations as we’ll finally realize that they are here to stay. Any perceived “pressure” from the business end would also be lessened.

Maybe we need to beg for a spinoff that will air on Showtime, Logo, or any of MTV’s sister stations. I am not being flip or caving in here as I think that the show can do even better by these guys via their continued integration to the social fiber of the show.

I am not sure how many of you are familiar with the success that ABC had when it decided to show what happened to a chosen group of characters on the daytime show General Hospital during the “Night Shift.” This extension of the show was a 13 week once-a-week experiment with self-contained that aired on Soapnet. Things got racier and Soapnet has its best ratings ever I don't watch GH nor watched what I suggest as something that could be done with Luke and Noah.

The series could take advantage of all sorts of corporate synergies of the Viacom/CBS family and could focus on Luke and Noah's life in say the dorms of Oakdale University. Talk about a goldmine waiting to happen with all sorts of intimacy for this beloved couple of a series of college age students who could be tested for longer-term appeal on the mother ship. Luke and Noah: College Nights could air once a week for one hour and we'd have more development which could then be matched with their daytime duties.

Think about this folks..... I may be giving Barbara Bloom, Head of CBS daytime programming a freebie that will reap them a bunch of dough. Big Brother apparently brought Showtime a material number of new paying subscribers via that show’s companion Big Brother After Dark, which aired for 3 hours per night. ABC considered Night Shift such a success that it is planning on doing 13 weeks for its 3 daytime dramas, thus having original programming for 39 weeks to complement their daytime roster (which stinks and they don’t have Luke and Noah).

There is so much that can be done and I’d love to see the owners of Luke and Noah realize what I believe to be an untapped way to do more and make more money. The spinoff suggestion, coupled with more frequent/less “pressure” appearances may bring us something that may be a the model for future programming for extremely popular characters or topics that are a byproduct of the show, but can’t quite be fully explored as it can if it has two ways of doing so. Let me at them folks. Of course I could be delusional.

.....as I am with you 100%, but as a long-term fan, I don't even want to contemplate said kiss and not due to any possible racism that the show show may be acused of, but because there is no chemistry between the characters and because newBonnie is badly cast and Holden only seems to have a soft place in his heart for Luke. Potential love interests need not apply with the Snyder men unless they want to be turned into Stepford Women.

Bonnie and Holden actually did get caught under the misletoe in the same episode, but thank God that Holden did not notice. Your comment reminded me of something that I had not thought in years and that newer viewers may not know about. Bonnnie is a product of a great love intercial love story between Duncan (white and quite Scottish) and Jessica (black and quite American).

The Jessica character also had the challenge of "replacing" 1/2 of one of the show's supercouples as it was ALL about Duncan and Shannon, before Duncan & Jessica. The show dealt with the race issue head on with family members and even some friends dissaproving. Duncan and Jessica married and the race "issue" on the show eventually was eventually not even an issue. It was still owned by P&G and the subject matter was possibly even more explosive as it took not only took on the racial component, but had thethe black character replacing one of the show's favorite leaing ladies. Duncan and Jessica became a super couple in their own right and was shown all degrees of intimacy.

Bonnie's parets could be compared to Luke and Noah in terms of being "out there" with a subject matter that still brings up all sorts of feelings in the viewers/advertisers. Unlike Luke and Noah,  Duncan and Jessica were on all the time and the issue of what people may think did not prevent them from seeing that the audience liked them.

While not as pertinent to this site, I will be interesting to see how the proposed pairing of Bonnie and Holden goes as the actress is not well-liked butn on top of that racism is alive and kicking as refleted on the show's boards. Even without having established any credible relation or chemsitry between Holden and Bonnie, P&G seems to be willing to do the sequel.

I do know that there must be more than meets the eye wth regard to why Luke and Noah are not on as much as other characters and why they've also had very heated/pasionate/tender moments that stand out as the show's best. What I don't think that some people have discussed is that P&G may actually be courting generating a response to call attention to its shows. Could it be wanting our eyes and the media attention without fully delivering? Maybe, but they did right by Jessica and Duncan (different show runners at the time) so maybe next Christmas Luke and Noah will be kissing under the mistow in bed.....

http://i237.photobucket.com/albums/ff244/MadAboutJack/122307_20151.jpg

Yes we are supposed to be heaping praise on ATWT for the storyline.  In case you have forgotten WHY - take a look at this 7-minute YouTube clip.  The show is giving us a terrific story that deserves our praise.  This clip clearly shows why.  http://youtube.com/watch?v=j7HnJcQbuhA

New fans may not understand how this show is a such a mean-spirited shadow of itself at the macro-level, but even long-term fans have welcomed Luke and Noah with open arms when they finally started to get some play. I too wish they were on 2 or 3 times a week with meaty material and that they had more physicality; however in a way they are a miracle even with their lack of exposure as they are not hurting one another, making nasty threats, or engaging in plot driven junk as is almost every single of my favorites.

I do agree with you in that I think TPTB are being foolish and I would go further and say negligent towards the ATWT audience, as it refuses to listen to the fans. I am not one to settle for crumbs, but I'd sooner see Luke and Noah as they are, than being destroyed with the daily contradictions that now define characters like Meg, Rosanna, Jack, Katie, and the list never ends. If there are any mixed messages to me is how the same head writer that comes up with Luke's journey also writes all the other junk in the show. I want my show back with the wonderful additions of Luke and Noah, who should be on more often as repeastedly proven by the fans.

Their affection is growing and it's sexier than anything in the air. I want to see then kiss, hug, caress, lust after one another, and (very soon) give in to it just like Luke's parents did in the mid-1980s under the great writing of Douglas Marland.

My position on the show is that, if not for Luke and Noah, they would have lost me a long time ago as I can't stand not seeing Lucinda Walsh be the greatest diva ever or have iconic Carly being a doormat to her loser husband and bratty oldest kid. If they don't step up the time that Luke and Noah are on, I'll be gone and only watch their scenes, which should be the last thing that any showrunner would want from a 20+ year fan who is gay. But like I said, I won't take crumbs and support their whole show as that is what FF was made for in my DVR.

I go back and forth on how to best let the monetary stakeholders on the show know how upset I am with the show as a whole, how glad I am for them to have had the courage when they first introduced a gay character who was not a footnote to the show, and how I wish that Luke and Noah, (but especially Luke) were on more often. I want to see him with new friends at Oakdale U., he needs another Maddie or Jade back in his life, and much more good stuff to have all his supporters happy to see him. Sometimes he feels like a guest in the show, but even at the worst of times (with the exception of being paralyzed) he's treated without the anger that Oakdale's men have acquired nor turned into the doormats that the women have become. Unlike poor Ro has also not changing paternity tests after being brought on the show for nothing.

Is anyone else here an ATWT fan prior to Nuke? Maybe someone here can give me a hand as how to do something that may make a difference. I've praised them about having introduced Nuke, have reminded them to be smart by showing them more often as they have a strong fan base that is mostly straight (although they should know about how many fans are new to the show only because of Luke and Noah) and have made my views regarding the overall destruction of the show known via letters/emails/postings.

I also don't want to waste my time writing positive notes as they continue to ignore the feedback that is all over the different fan fora for the show and is well documented in the different magazines that follow the show in "main-stream" daytime media.

You ask if you are supposed to be heaping praise at this stage? I think a little, but with qualifications. Today, they are not doing us any favors as they themselves have cast and written gay characters who may have more universal appeal than they ever thought possible. Do they send mixed messages? Daily, but with all the characters on the show. It's not easy being a fan of this show as it has so many contradictions. I still think that they should be spunoff into their own weekly series (on top of their ATWT duties) exploring their lives more fully to maximize the brand appeal and take on every cliched "new media" outlet. As Luke said "I am so in love with you" (when referring to Noah), but as a fan in love do I have to put up with my partner's friends and family too if they behave like savages? Maybe I can if I can see my boys more often (being dreamy and lusty as Van Hansis has both of those down pat) and have the other characters on the show chill out.

A nice roll in the hay, literally, like Luke's mom and dad did in the 1980's would be a nice February sweeps win-win... Writers strike notwithstanding...

If you are a long-term fan, or one who watches the whole show, you could not miss that only Luke and Noah got to kiss under the mistletoe. No one else. Why? Because the show has no other couples who are in love as most of them not only don't like/respect one another, they hate one another. They should have shown the kiss, esp. when the characters are on so seldomly that every action seems to send a message, but were either of them being kicked in the teeth as Carly was by her husband and bratty Parker? If someone is not watching the whole show, it's impossible for them to see how dignified Luke and Noah are writen versus their straight peers.  

Compare the two most popular reigning super couples on the show to Luke and Noah, and what do you get? Doormat Carly and Judge Judy Jack and Luke's parents Lily "Guilty for everything including global warming" and Holden "God" Snyder.

In no way can defend the actions of a writing team that I think needs to be replaced in its entirety. They've had over two years (actually more as the head scribe has been with the how much longer) to address fan complaints about bigger fish to fry. Bigger in the sense that the core of the show is perceived as being rotten to the core versus previews regimes. Our guys have been spared from that.

I've been one of their most ardent critics and was upset when Luke seemed like a footnote in his own storyline as for a (too long for me) while it was all about Maddie and Noah. That finally ended and the two had their steamy almost kiss (Yowsah!) and the kiss that rocked. I was happily surprised. Paralysis and rarely being on seems like such a hard to understand course of action given the almost universal support that they received; however......

The show sucks and has not listened to its audience across the board, not just its pro-Luke and Noah fans. If we want equality on ATWT  we'd have a choice of the following material:

If Luke were Carly (arguably the show's most popular performer and current Emmy-Winner for Leading Actress) this last few months would been written as follows.

Luke leaves his kids to play with another man (the poor actress actually went on maternity leave but this was her gift). He comes back and is shunned by all of Oakdale. He stalks his ex-husband, who insults you (in public, private, in between) and he takes it over and over like a champ because love is about accepting abuse until people see that you will not leave. Luke would have received a literal death sentence, but only to find out that it was a misdiagnosis (dying? just kidding) and he would have kept it to himself and working the death card. He'd even be shown drinking a beer and slam dancing of happiness in his living room. He'd finally come clean a second before being remarried and of course would have been left by the altar in his knees, humiliated in front of all of Oakdale. His ex would tell him at every corner that he's a lousy human being, would threaten to take his kids, does, talks smack about him in front of the kids. He would have spent Thanksgiving alone, would continue to be threatened by his ex, and that would include his future livelihood to show him a lesson. Lastly, he would have gotten more of the same on Christmas Eve and the only people on his side would have been an ex-con with a freaking (and scary) hand-puppet and another ex-con who had a role in kidnapping his 2nd eldest.

I know that Luke can't even get married, does not have kids to leave and has not even been shown going to second base, but as Luke and/or Noah fans, this is what the show's favorite couple is getting from the scribes. Carly did fool Jack into doing her in what was mostly a disgusting scene that made fans repulsed as this has been the show's IT couple since 2000. She also stole some pitty kisses. Now that is what I call lack of dignity. A pull away kiss shot after hearing "I am so in love with you" is lame, but how could anyone prefer the straight leading lady's trajectory versus Luke and Noah's. As her character continues to be assassinated, she's also on 3,4 or even 5 times a week. Ugh!

Or maybe they can be treated like Meg, allegedly in love with one man, yet marries his nemesis the second she thinks he is dead. None of her actions make any sense, but she does get to have unprotected sex at least 6 times with two guys, lies to all involved. Do we want that for Luke? The sex with her husband has the sensuality of nails on a chalkboard and their is no real reason for her to be having sex with her not really dead love as she's actually clueless as to why he'd be miffed that she married and continues to stay married to a man everyone hates. I'll take Luke and Noah as they are than having them receive the "Meg" treatment.

Or maybe Luke can be treated like his mom. Yelled at by Luke's father for everything from how she spends her own money, who she befriends, how she dresses, and even had the audacity to blame her for Luke's accident. Get this. Lily was guilted by Luke's father to take over for an ailing mom who had been scheduled to oversee some overnight trip for some little girls, including previously mute Natalie. He almost wraps up Luke with a bow by allowing Luke to go on an overnight trip with Colonel Death and does not even bother to find out where they are doing to stay. Does anyone want this type of equality? Lily gets blasted for not sharing a bit of information with Holden, but he, who spends time with the nasty murder, and allows Luke to go is guilt-free. Even Maddie warned Holden about this trip. Her reward. You are off the show!!! As far as the affection barometer, Lily and Holden were shown having sex once in the past 8 months right after he criticized her for looking too unmotherly with a sexy dress and their hotel sex was disgusting. Holden was in the shower before the "sex" even got started and she is shown calling one of the few men in the show who does not think that women are disobeying whores.

Is the pattern clear? The current scribes of this show do not show any of the other characters making puppy dog eyes at one another, holding one another, or showing any non plot-forced "affection." Like Brad and Katie's baby daddy s/l. The name is acutally being used on the show. Has there been kissing? Yes, but none of it earned just plot points to move ill-conceived stories around.

Luke and Noah have are a miracle in Oakdale. The scribes seemed to have the best of intentions (and they still do), cast these two characters so well, that to me it's frustrating not to see them continuing to move ahead as the hard work has been done; however it cannot be underscored enough that they live and breathe under a writing team that is highly criticized and seems to take that criticism with grains of rock salt.

In my ideal world, Luke and Noah would be spun off to have their one lives outside of the mess that is Oakdale. They are money-making machines, not charity nor nobility. They could be one of the tender couples in a greater urban or university canvas which could also show other gay temparaments. Even Luke and Noah can get to be more soap-like but not before they cement this love as the scribes are holding on to gold and they seem to not be able to work so well with that.

The only hope that I hold out is that Luke and Noah did get all wet and got to kiss after some major hard to stomach decisions made by Maddie, who would have never moved in with Noah nor changed her plans to go to Wesleyan. It seemed like more like major time-buying by the show-runners to check the panorama. Maybe Luke and Noah's recent words, touches, looks, and assumed kiss represents their prelude to more. They can easily start by showing them more often. Am I holding my breath? No. If the scribes are finally replaced or get on track, Van Hansis may very well take any heat that he has right now and leave the show in 2008, when his contract expires. Since he tackled Die Mommie Die, maybe there are independent films in which he can appear. Hopefully some will be gay-themed and I'll be able to see this actor grow as ATWT has been the first step in many careers, including Julianne Morris and Dana Delaney of China Beach fame and currently bring it home on Desperate Housewives. Indie-gay loved Parker Posey was also on the show. Or maybe Van will stay and due to the overwhelming support continue to receive favorite actor and he and Noah favorite couple honors from magazines like Soap Opera Digest well into 2008. I just can't fathom that I'll continue around to see the whole show as is, and will at most watch selected scenes. Those who are currently doing this, please watch the whole show for a while to see Luke and Noah is a broader context and the question your be reframed as how are they getting any blood from this stone? It may not be enough to make anyone wanting to see a more natural progression stay, but at least any opinions will have the full story and not the easy excuse that they are scared of what mid-America will do and they weaseled out. To me the show already shows that it's not listening to most of the fans about anything.

If I ever (finally) see Carly slap Jack across the face and bedded by a new hottie (Simon come back), the Stepford Wives wake up, and the Synder men (with the exception of Brad and Luke) show women some love and respect, then the writers will have some major questrions to answer. Until then, they can use having bipolar disorder to defend any and all that goes on in the gloomy and love-free show that they write.