"So You Think Can Dance" still doesn't get it, but Season Six has same-sex couple advancing to Las Vegas

I used to watch So You Think Can Dance, and because of the issues you exactly raised - if they were that bad, then why show them at all?  It was done to embarrass, plain & simple!

I mean, really - he doesn't need the money or the exposure. He has like 4 movies under production. He could handle being fired for saying the right thing.  Him defending it, well, there are terms for people like that.

He's a total puppet of Nigel Lythgoe.I actually really like SYTYCD, and continue to watch it (with the mute button on when Mary's talking), but am disappointed with this controversy. That being said, I found the closing lyrics actually funny. We has a community have to be able to laugh at ourselves. Was it offensive? Apparently to some. Was it innappropriate? No, I don't think so.

Oh yes, it's 'squirming with embarrassment'. I know it's wrong to enjoy watching people being called on their past misdeeds and doing their damndest to avoid confronting it head on, but I guess I'm destined for Hell, Michael - and it's all your fault!

Thank you for bringing the point to them directly, Michael and giving them the opportunity to answer directly. Which they didn't. But at least - from their answers - we know that they know they screwed up.

Whenever I read an article like this (for example your interview with R****** T D*****) I'm struck that we're getting excellent quality free journalism and I immediately go and click on lots of ads on the site in the - perhaps mistaken - belief that it'll contribute something to the success of AE.

Anyway, thank you again.

Many male dancers are gay. The gay dancers can be just as good as the straight  dancers. There's probably been many gay dancers on the show already, they just didn't want to discuss their private life. And who can really blame them? The judges almost seem homophobic, and the network isn't exactly known for it's wonderful portrayal of gay people on tv. They should just acknowledge the fact that some dancers are gay, and there's nothing wrong with that. Their talent should speak for itself anyway. Last season was unbelievable, Nigel managed to comment on the fact that two male dancers were dancing together more than on their talent, when as I said, their talent should speak for itself, and he should ONLY comment on that.

Shankman is wow.. I don't even know what to say, he's a tool, and he's obviously making the incident to be less important than it really was. I really didn't like the answers he gave at all. He just seemed like he didn't care, which is a shame.

Harvey Milk: You gotta give 'em hope.

but you're not going to change nigel.

just last night, he was creepily leering and making suggestive remarks (on air) about the two *very young* female contestants.  he seems completely unaware of the bounds of propriety. 

but whatever -- he, like any narcissist, will remain permanently stuck in his ways. 

sidenote:  it's funny how nigel, simon, piers, etc. are changing the American perception of British people: from polite and undemonstrative to rude and hyper-critical. 

Nigel may have created the show and be is leading judge but the truth is that Adam and his power brought the money to the table as the Executive Produce, that is what executive producers primarily do.  To say it is nigels show and he has all the power is disingenuos.  Adam could and should have stood up for the dancer maybe they are bad dancers but it sure seemed clear that is not what Nigel was saying.  

That's all I am saying... 

INSIDEGUY

First thing, after just watching the finale I couldn't help but notice that they included  the same-sex couple again during a montage. What's the 3 second clip of? One dropping the other during their audition. It is STILL played for laughs.

I don't see how having the World Champion Same-Sex Ballroom Champions advance to Vegas is a good thing. They were advanced for 1 of 2 reasons. 1. because they think it would provide good comedy or 2. they did it specificially for P.R. reasons.

I also think it's funny when Nigel Lythgoe refers to "the honesty of the piece". That man wouldn't know honesty if it bit him on the ass.

As for Adam Shankman, what has he EVER done for the gay community? He was the 1st person to viciously defend Nigel over his remarks. He even said that if anyone had a problem with it then simply "don't watch the show". And how many positive gay characters has he featured in the films that he has directed and/or produced? 

So, while I think Michael's questions were excellent and to the point, we were never going to get a straight answer from either of these people. They are as clueless now as they were then. 

how the entertainment industries treat  the gay communities. However, I do not get how one show is more or less offensive than the others. There's no consistency. Since the old coot of a Nigel Lyhtgoe made his personal insecurity known over a couple of same sex dancers this season. Ignorant, perverted, bigoted whatever label you can attached to this moron. So you think you can dance seems to be the show that dare not speak on this blog. Despite, there's more gay dancers on the show, despite that it has the most gay choreographers working for the show. As oppose to American Idol who with no less ignorant or bigoted towards many of the gay contestants. But one Adam Lambert seems to wipe away any forgotten ill. The fact that Big Brother with one mousy gay contestant and a bunch of moronic jocks spewing hatred towards gay people seems to have more exposure here. Oh and remember Spencer from Survivor for getting the flak for making what seems to be offensive statement about his view of flamboyant gay men? What's the agenda here? Whats the standard apply? Who dictates?

Gah!  This whole show drives me mad sometimes.  I really love SYTYCD as the dancers are all magnificent and the choreography is at times truely inspired.  Yet the overriding problem that I see with it is not only the occasional incidents of homophobia, but their slavish conformity to outdated gender stereotypes.  They are obsessed with all the men behaving like some grunting cavemen and the women behaving like helpless damsels in destress.  I remember that at one point this season one of the judges "complemented" a female dancer for how 'submisive' she was in a routine.  And don't even get me started on how whenever 2 guys are partnered together in the finale, they are ALWAYS supposed to be fighting; to the point where they have the same routine year in, year out.  How about a theme of friends, or a gender-neutral story, or even (gasp) lovers?  It looks like a dreadful failure of imagination on the choreographers' and producer's part.  And its not as if 1/2 of their contestents aren't blatently gay anyway...   

I saw the "controversial" episode and I didn't see that much controversy. at. all. That is my opinion as a gay man.

This is a show where ultimately the contestants are assigned with someone from the opposite sex to dance in the live shows. If two people from the same sex decide to audition together and do a hiphop or jazz or contemporary routine or any routine where the dynamics is not conditioned by gender roles I do not think anyone on the judging panel would fall over the concept of same gendered people dancing together. These guys chose to do a ballroom routine which very gender specific so I do not think it is strange for the judges to fall over that. Especially when both guys switched between the gender roles. When you do a solo audition a judge can only guess as to how you may partner but when you do a duet they cannot NOT judge partnering skills.

I admire the guys for trying to be different. Different works sometimes if you are really good. If you aren't good being different will backfire, and in this case it did. Plan was daring, execution was soso.

What I don't understand is why masculinity and sexuality are interchangeable in the discussion about this controversy. The judges voiced concern about the masculinity and gender role of the dancers but the subsequent outrage of the gay media made me feel like it was a gay thing. I do not think "gay angle" of the exit song should have generated such a backlash.

There is so much going on in your country when it comes to gay rights that I as an outsider feel that some in the US gay community have become hypersensitive and cry battle at every corner.

I don't understand why the female judge on the show is getting off scott free.  I was just as offended by her comments about the dancers as I was about Nigel's. 

 Oh, just in case anyone has been under any misconceptions, gay people can be the most homophobic people on earth, PARTICULARLY in HOLLYWOOD!  Hollywood is practically run by gay men but yet we're still talking about how coming out would kill an actor's career because the GAYS in charge wouldn't hire an out gay man.

 

Anyone who thinks that this particular situation was just a misunderstanding should look at all the facts first.

 

This was all covered thoroughly by Michael previously but I think some of it has been forgotten.

Nigel's opinion of the same-sex partners was not limited to what was shown on air. While being interviewed for afterelton Misha revealed what else was said to them when the cameras weren't rolling:

"It was more offensive than what they showed. Nigel said that he's not sure that the fathers watching this at home would be encouraged to take their sons to allow them to learn to dance. Nigel told me that they [the show] has spent all these seasons trying to build up the idea that a male can dance and make it more acceptable, and we didn't really help the cause."

Well, what about the gay boys watching the show with THEIR fathers? How about the psychological damage done to that child when they see same-sex partners being humiliated on national tv?

Yes, there is a difference between a gay dancer and an effeminate dancer. I completely understand the importance of masculine vs feminine dancing. But it's not like these two guys were doing a drag routine. Nigel was making a statement BEYOND simply the masculine excuse he used. The "brokeback" joke he made went beyond the masculine excuse. And joke about "converting" the guys went beyond the masculine excuse.

When there are a disturbing amount of gay children killing themselves to escape being teased, made fun or of being unaccepted this IS NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Misha went on to describe the choreography round:

"Nigel asked me after the choreography round, how I liked dancing with a girl and I said, "I've been ballroom dancing since I was twelve, so I've been dancing with girls my whole life." It was very inappropriate and the only reason they advanced us wasn't to see if we could improve or be versatile, but was to make us dance with girls."

So, do you STILL think that Nigel was simply being misinterpreted? That not enough perspective?

How about this:

During his "reign" at American Idol, the show was NOTORIOUS for it's homophobia. Past contestants admitted to being forced back into the closet. The fact that Adam Lambert was allowed to be himself and succeed in doing so was during the first year that Nigel Lythgoe had NOTHING to do with American Idol should speak volumes.

But I'm sure there are still some people out there that still think some of us are just being overly sensitive. To that I would say, go back into the warm comfort of your closet. Our community will never be treated with respect, the record number of hate crimes will never decrease, and we will never be afforded basic equal human rights by turning a blind eye towards any amount of injustice. 

There are not acceptable levels of homophobia.

As for Adam Shankman. He is simply a coward. And his attempts at defending Nigel and the show were not halfhearted at all. He told me several times if I did not like the way Nigel spoke to the same-sex partners or how they were portrayed on the show then I simply shouldn't watch the show. He did not express the slightest bit of concern for Misha or the gay community. As far as I'm concerned that man's future projects should not be mentioned on this site at all. Let him pander to the straight community. It's their approval he so desperately seems to need.

Like every thing else that's been on Fox since they cancelled 'Arrested Development.'  Why doesn't anyone admit that 90% of the dancers people see on television or on Broadway are gay - and many are proudly out?  As usual, American television is at least five years behind the times when it comes to pushing the envelope even a little bit.  And just WHO are these revolting UK judges following in Simon Cowell's nasty footsteps?  I find nothing entertaining about this show at all.

How can Adam Shankman call this show gay-friendly when 1. The show had a hideous anti-gay moment like that one he still hasn't apologized for and 2. They still aren't including any significant number of gay dancers??

Having gay folks working on the show means ZILCH when the product that all of America sees is 1. exclusively heterosexual couples and 2. mocks and ridicules the only gay folks America has seen on the show.

 How stupid can Shankman be???   Shankman, look at the PRODUCT.  Look at what America sees.  THAT ain't gay-friendly.  And Nigel's homophobia just makes me sick. Nigel is a big dumb homophobic idiot whose visage I want to see about as much as I want to see Ann Coulter.  The dance world is FULL of gays.  Where the fuck ARE THEY on this show??

for your journalistic courage for standing up to this panel on behalf of all of us who were insulted and offended by that episode. It still bewilders me that people don't get it - be it Shankman or even posters here on this thread. More and more I see legitimate protests quashed by these thougtlless exhortations to 'lighten up' or words to that effect. There seems to be this crippling anxiety about being seen as difficult and not 'being able to laugh at ourselves'. Thank the stars Harvey Milk and other intelligent activists were there to show appropriate anger at inappropriate treatment.

like Adam Shankman, Don Roos, and Todd Holland are such craven cowards?

I'd really like to know.  

 

I take problem with the show's heterosexual assumptions and heterosexual promotion without the acknowledgement that gays exist in the dance world. For instance, the show's host, Cat Deeley, always tries to sell the male dancers to the “girls” in the audience. She never mentions that these men may potentially be gay or that they may have also impressed the gay men in the audience. It's one thing for the show to be strictly about dancing but it's another for them to advance these norms that exclude gay dancers and gay viewers. The dancers are assumed straight, dancing for a straight audience, and gay people are completely excluded.

Unfortunately, the only instance when they show two same-sex partners (which does not necessarily imply that they are gay), they choose to focus on the ridiculousness of such an act rather than focusing on its progressivism. Instead, they focus and reinforce on the ideals of different-sex partners.

It didn't take long. The sweetest guy called Troy who teaches cheerleading and adores Britney Spears did his routine for the judges on the new season of SYTYCD Canada auditions. He'd been turned down the year before after being told he'd need to butch it up to satify the 'particular' requirements of this dance contest. And this year they opened with the same barrage channeling Lythgoe all the way. Even the male judge who was as camp as a row of pink tents exclaimed thet 'everyone knew' he preferred masculine (code for str8-acting) dancers. One of the judges even made a Feudian slip and said something about him dancing with 'other women'.

 Troy stood up to them and without actually announcing he was gay (and he might actually not be gay but who know's what was edited?) he proudly proclaimed that he had considered their input and decided he was going to be himself and wasn't prepared to be someone else. Then it was if someone held up a cue card saying 'Michael Jensen's watching!' because they suddenly reveresed their opinions, stumbling over each other to say that diversity was good and 'why should everyone be the same?' And Troy was put through to choreography which he nailed.

 So let's stay tuned and see how they deal with the Troy Problem in upcoming episodes.

I agree with Tony about the homophobia on SYTYCD - Canada, and it continued in the auditions.  Another male dancer was told to "put on a boy face" by one judge and to "man it up" by another.  Mia Michaels herself was there and was right in there with the homophobic comments.  They are as blatant as ever.  We contacted GLAAD in the US because we don't have a similar organization in Canada.  CTV is the station that puts it on, and it would be great to get all your help to let them know that "Michael Jensen is watching" in Canada, too... and so is the world!

Justifying their prejudice for stereotyped gender roles and homophobia has no place... dance should be a celebration of creativity and freedom of expression.  If they are working with a choreographer, fine, they have to play the role they were given.  We are talking about an audition - with no direction from choreographers, and the actual phrase from Jean Marc was "take your balls from behind you and put them in front".  This is in addition to "put on a boy face" and "man it up".  Dance isn't a tool of social conformity, and if you don't think these comments are homophobic, that's the problem!  It's ok to be a gay dancer as long as you can pass as straight?  Let's retitle the show, So You Think You Can Dance Like A Stereotype Butch Straight Guy - Canada!

The thought that the amount of gay men employed by this show renders it free of homophobia is absurd, and Shankman should know better.  Disney employs damn well near the entire gay population of Orlando, FL, but you'll note that there's still no "animated classic" with a same sex couple.  Disney just uses gay people while pretending they don't exist (like Ryan in High School Musical), and that's what this show does too.  They just work for them, they're not necessarily indicative of how Nigel feels about gay people in general.

"When the people fear its government, that's tyranny.  When the government fears its people, that's liberty."

- Benjamin Franklin