"Torchwood: Children of Earth: Day Five" minicap

The ending!

He did the unthinkable and sacrificed his own grandson and just cant live with the guilt.

It was a good way to leave it, Does Gwen carry on TW and recruits lois? Does Jack come back with a remedy to raise only one person from the dead and needs to choose between his grandson or Ianto? Does he appear in Dr who (where he is much better in the small doses) So many possibilitys.

Just got done watching it as well. It wasn't quite as good as last night's; but it wasn't terrible by any means. If Jack lost bad yesterday, tonight carved out a part of his soul even his super regeneration powers can fix.

It's a been a pretty wonderful ride, all around though. It would also be a shame if this was the end of the series, but I think after the ratings, the BBC is going to commission more. I can only hope it's as good as this series was.

Why I am not surprise?  Gwen is the only one who didn't need to sacifice anything, not Rhys or her baby. 

After episode 4, I searched for spoilers for episode 5. I just couldn't keep watching without Ianto. I know to some that may sound stupid and childlike, but that's just how I felt. Needless to say, I didn't watch it. I just...couldn't somehow. I think I speak for a lot of people when I say that Ianto was so integral to my love of Torchwood that without him made it seem somewhat hallow. I think that every show has something that appeals to its audience. And it's different for each viewer. I watched Torchwood not just for it's science fiction element, but for the characters and their relationships. After Tosh and Owen died, I was hit hard and wondered if there could still be a Torchwood that I could go back and love. Episodes 1-3 of the mini-series convinced me there could be. But, the joy that I got of these episodes was centered on the dynamics between the 3 leads, and yes, I am including Gwen. It seems that now Torchwood has been gutted of what attracted me so much. With only two of the original 5 elements that made me love Torchwood, I don't think I can really go back. Will there be new characters that might interest me? Of coarse. Can I learn to love  a new Torchwood? Maybe, but somehow I doubt it. The fact that it's not really Torchwood anymore, at least not to me, will always be at the forefront of my mind and I doubt any replacement, no matter how well crafted, will ease that. That's just how I feel about this whole thing. 

That being said, there's a lot of argument going on about why Ianto died and whether or not RTD should have kept him alive. Here's my point of view:

Should Ianto have been saved because he was in a positive same sex relationship? Yes and no. I definitely see the point that just because Ianto was gay doesn't give him a get out of death card. But at the same time, it's incredibly disheartening to see a role model, a positive representation of a gay relationship, be cast aside in such a manner. Especially because their so rare and needed and also because I think Ianto's sacrifice ultimately falls flat. Which leads me to my next point: It seemed like a cop out. 

I can see what RTD was trying to do with killing Ianto. I understand his emphasizing the danger of Torchwood, the fleeting and doomed nature of Jack's romances in comparison to his eternal life, and the arc that it allows Jack to live through. I get all of that. But honestly, I can't help but feel that all of this the audience already knows. Didn't the deaths of Tosh and Owen already show us the fleeting nature of life in Torchwood? Didn't Alice and her mother show us the dark nature of Jack's love life? Didn't the conversations that Jack and Ianto have about their time together cement their doomed romance. And not only that, but they don't even get to be together, and embrace what little time they have together, cause of damn beans. Despite wonderful (and I mean truly wonderful) performances by both Gareth and John, Ianto's sacrifice seemed to fall flat. Why? Because there was honestly no need for it. It seems like the easy way out, in a lot of ways. Instead of further exploring what it truly means to live for eternity and/or love someone who does, it just shows us the end, and not the meaty middle. And I know plenty of people think that the end, the death of one party, is the essence of such a relationship, but it's not, really. There's so much dynamic that RTD could've explored between Ianto and Jack that completely went untouched. I'm not saying that Ianto and Jack would need a happy ending for me to be satisfied, on the contrary I feel the opposite, but I think there should've been genuine exploration of the two. That, I think, is what would have been compelling. That's what I think would have impressed me. And that's what I think is the harder option of the two, when you come down to it. Grief over a dead lover is common. Moving on from said death is common. I think doomed lovers living and loving is the hard part to explore and write. And the interesting one.  

Some people will say that their love has already been fully explored. The only think I can do to that is say guffaw. And some people will say that RTD is trying to say that not all lovers get to explore their relationships and that is his point. To that I say, we've already seen this in Tosh and Owen. And we've already been disappointed by it.  

 Anyways, this went on way too long. And I know this is probably not the best place to start brining this up. I just kinda got started on it and then it turns out I had a lot to say about it. I welcome more discussion about the topic and I also welcome a time machine so I can warn myself ahead of time... *sigh*.  

I think we all know RTD didn't HAVE to kill Ianto off. And of COURSE, Gwen has nothing to lose. HER kid is tucked up inside her belly and Rhys didn't die so everything's all happy go lucky for Gwen.

I really can't see a new season without Ianto and since Jack isn't coming back, I'm convinced this is the end of Torchwood. 

Plus even if they were to continue with a new season without Ianto and brought Jack back, how much people do you think would return to Torchwood? Answer: Hardly any. 

Dislike Gwen she really was very good in the series, The last episode where she tells Rhys she is getting rid of the baby and then the look in her eyes later on when they are trying to save the kids and she says of course I wont get rid of it, half trying to convince herself she wont, were touching and very emotional.

You say Gwen has lost nothing but she lost Ianto and Jack too, She was part of a team that has been destroyed, She has lost alot.

probably won't. I watched it Ianto, and for Ianto and Jack together. I just don't care anymore.

Although question, how is broken heart and soul Jack going to be light family friendly Doctor Who? 

I found these re-caps to be annoying initially, as I can't see it until July 20th, but now I am glad as I don't have to be bothered watching. Not sure why RTD felt he needed to write it this way but I really am not interested in Torchwood other than Janto, the science fiction was an added bonus but only that.

 Sad, as I was really looking forward to it, oh well.

I enjoyed it. I really and truly did. The deus ex machina, "Oh! What if we use this technobabble solution?" moment was a little overly simplistic, but standard enough fare for the Whoniverse, and I loved the symmetry - back in 1965, Jack made the choice that 12 children were worth sacrificing for the greater good. In 2009, he has to make the same choice, except instead of faceless orphans, he's forced to sacrifice his own grandson. It's karma coming back to give him a good kicking, and I loved that Jack wasn't allowed to brush off his role in essentially murdering a bunch of kids and sweep away, coat billowing. Even though what he did was arguably right (both in 65 and 09), he still pays for it in the end. And I'd love to see his daughter return as an antagonist; she seemed willing and able to kick a whole lot of ass, and right up until they came up with the "feedback" solution I thought she was being primed to pop up again in a prospective season 4. The rest of it was great too - Lois and the secretary (whose name escapes me) teaming up to bring down the PM; Frobisher killing himself and his family (in one of the most chilling scenes I've seen on television in quite some time); Gwen's video (oddly affecting, given that she irks me most of the time) and Jack's final realisation that his very presence seems to bring death and destruction to all those around him. I'm glad that he seems to be mourning Ianto; that he opened the episode barely able to move and ready to sit in a cell and rot rather than keep trying, because having watched Ianto die, it all just felt pointless.

I think there's plenty of room and ground for them to cover if they do commission a season 4 - aside from Gwen, plenty of the tertiary characters floating around right now (such as Johnson, Lois or PC Andy) could easily be drafted in, or Freema Agyeman or Noel Clarke might become available (which seemed to be the plan at the end of Doctor Who's 4th season). Even for someone who's lived as long as Jack has, there's gotta be interesting stories to be had in him dealing with this; I doubt he's ever gone through quite this much in quite such a short space of time before. From what I hear, the ratings have been quite solid throughout, the little bit of critical buzz I've heard has been positive and the "5-night-mini-series" thing, strange choice though it was, did garner it a decent bit of media attention. Fingers crossed here!

from what i am reading, a lot of fans think this show can't have a season 4.

jack, gwen...and all new people? just gwen? jack and the Dr? people aren't sure what the show could or would do in a season 4.

it seems a lot of fans think RTD screwed them over

This has been one of the most intense stories I have ever seen. 
It blows my mind that it went to such dark places. I think it works. I think it was absolutely brilliant.
I would have felt cheated if the situation were resolved any other way.

It's very hard to imagine where a 4th series would pick up and go, but, if I recall, there were naysayers regarding how a five episode mini-series could work. I have faith that 'Torchwood' will be back. I have faith that it'll be bigger and better than ever. 

Now I have to just sit and digest what I just spent a week watching.

Hmm, at the end of that episode (as far fetched as it could seem) i was hoping that the grandson was alive (with a bit of that harkness magic lol) and jacks daughter was so horrified but what he'd done she's keeping it hidden from him as she doesnt trust him. Wishful thinking ay?

Overall i think the children of the earth was brilliant but also not briliant. The story was great, the tension and emoitions was great. It did things i havent seen similar programmes do (showing how the government would deal in such a situation, the horrifying idea that the 456 were like intergalactic paedo type drug addicts) but then i hate that they killed ianto (as amazing and touching as the scene was) and then sent jack off into space (although maybe that means he'll turn up in doctor who hopefully, where i much preferred him as he was a bit more lighthearted and more of the cheeky john barrowman we know) but overall i was very pleased witht the series, it had me crying, tense, horrified, shouting at the screen and laughing. Well done RTD and the other writers!

Also i think it was a good thing that they didn't show the 456 completely, there was always a mystery about them that kept them interesting. yeah we knew there size and shape and the rough look of them but it was always voered my that poison fog.

Ramble over! XD

My tonuge would catch your tongue...were the world mine :-)

It was certainly a heartbreaking mini-series.

And it was utterly brilliant. 

All these comments prove that in the end the creative Torchwood Team did lots of things right. In a time where there are so many TV-series, so many tragedies on soaps, in a time where you can buy anything on the Internet and cheap emotions are manufactured in thousands of talkshows, reality TV shows and drama series - this team created a series that made loads of people switch on their televisions, that had them on the edge of their seats, that made them cry, made them twitter so much that some British TV series was suddenly a Top Ten popular topic - and make some of them profess their hate for a man who they don't know. 

This series was so gritty, so powerful, so tragic and despite the sci-fi setting felt so realistic, I am still amazed. The sheer honesty that was presented here, I can't even remember the last time I watched something so horrifying, touching and impressive at the same time. 

And huge hats off to the secondary characters, they were written astoundingly well. These middle-aged, reserved and stiff British characters were fascinating, the acting was first-rate, they were at times scarier than the actual monsters. I enjoyed the characters who portrayed Ianto's and Jack's families very much, too, it was something I always liked about Torchwood and Doctor Who, that apart from Barrowman himself, none of these actors would ever make it in Hollywood. That's also honest. Ianto's sister and brother-in-law are normal, chubby, kind-hearted people. They were like people who you would actually meet if you went to Britain.

I am bit astonished that lots of people think that Gwen is the winner of this series, or that she got preferential treatment. She was a bored young policewoman who suddenly found something exciting and terrifying in Torchwood. After experiencing incredible things over the years, she witnessed how 3 out of the original team members died, how Captain Jack turned into a broken man and she is left there in Cardiff, just as if nothing ever happened. She is the survivor, the survivor that can't run away like Jack. She spends the rest of her life with those memories. 

Never did I think that Gwen and Jack belonged together, I was always for "Janto". With Gwen they showed how an ordinary person gets caught up in something this extraordinary - and then returns to everyday life, with an ordinary husband. Ianto couldn't have had this storyline. He was the broken young man, shaken from the horrific experiences of another tragedy. Jack and the Torchwood team brought him back to life, he started to have great sex with the boss, he started to crack witty one-liners, he fell in love, turned into the best-dressed superhero ever, he fought for what he believed in and in the end died in the arms of his lover, with whom he could have never had a Gwen-Rhys story, because this lover is one of the biggest anomalies in space-time continuum. It was an amazing story for Ianto, epic, tragic, riveting and above all touching.

Pure logic is the ruin of the spirit.

Antoine de Saint-Exupery

I think I teared up in this episode more than day 4. I missed Ianto and I could tell Jack was still grieving. During the last scene with Gwen crying all I could think of was thinking how Jack walk all over the earth grieving for Ianto (steven, too) and finally he had to leave. Ianto meant more to him than he would have liked to admit. 

So from a writers perspective Ianto had to die. No one would have believed that Jack would have left Earth without Ianto. But they had to find a way for Jack to join Doctor who instead. I guess it makes sense to them. I won't watch Doctor Who. I was never a fan of the show. I may watch Torchwood again, but without Ianto I'm not making any promises. 

For me, I'm not sure I'd watch another season of Torchwood.  Would they return to the cheeky, flirty Jack that I found so appealing in the first two seasons?  After what we have learned that he is capable of, would I be able to forgive him if he did?  Although I was on the edge of my seat watching this series and I think it really worked for the five night format, I don't know if I'd want to watch another season if I knew it was going to be as dark.  In the fight between the 456 and the human race, both sides proved to be lacking.  When Gwen is one of the few people you're left rooting for then you know it's time to say goodbye.

(unless Ianto comes back!  Especially if he's wearing a vest!)

I think that RTD just crossed too far over the line for my taste.

Killing Owen and Tosh was really pushing the outer edge of the envelope. Killing Ianto was just plain brutal. And all the additional death, like Jack's grandson, was simply gratuitous.

This was clearly meant to be a shocker, and it was. But in a very malicious, almost contemptuous way. RTD was asserting his ownership over the playpen by showing that he could wreck the whole thing at will. It makes for a climactic ending for a series.

But the problem is that now I honestly can't say that I would watch a Series Four.

For starters, RTD has demonstrated that there is no point in getting emotionally invested in any of the characters, because he'll kill them off whenever it amuses him to do so. Except, perhaps, for ones he's inordinately proud of such as Gwen.

But by-and-large Torchwood overall is not such an original series what with the Hellmouth....er, I mean...Rift having been such a derivative plot device. Can I also note the similarity to Primeval here as well?  Overall, in terms of concept Torchwood has not been all that ground-breaking. It has been the characters and the use of them that created a lot of it's appeal.

Now, however, RTD has demonstrated unequivocally that this most valuable asset is considered expendable. The characters are just there to be killed. Except for Jack and (seemingly) Gwen.

Jack is not the Doctor however, even at the best of times. And Gwen is certainly not Rose, Sarah Jane, Martha or any of the better companions. Keeping just the two is insufficient to maintain the momentum of the show many of us got into.

Years ago, when I was about thirteen or so, my best friend and I took my extensive collection of Star Wars toys out to the woods. There we staged an epic "last battle" using model fuel to burn every last toy (collectors reading this may cringe as they feel the need). It was a kind of rite of passage. Moving from my childhood into adolescence. But once the toys were burned I scarcely gave them another thought and didn't really miss them.

That is how this feels to me. It feels like RTD killed Torchwood.  Series Three hasn't even been broadcast in the U.S. and I've only seen segments of episodes 3-5. But I almost can't muster the desire to set the TiVo to record them. After all, if RTD cared so little for these characters then why should I? Maybe better to just move on. And if there's a Series Four I probably won't bother watching unless something I read somewhere convinces me it's worth it. But somehow I doubt it. 

It feels like RTD was fishing more for awards and praise for his "daring" than caring the slightest about what fans might think. Again, he was asserting ownership of the playpen. CoE was certainly daring.  But as with my long-gone Star Wars toys, it was a final separation. Burn it all down just to achieve a dramatic ending. A severance that broke my emotional tie to Torchwood.