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"Forbidden Love" video clip update: Double Vision
Yesterday, I said about Olli and Christian, "I think it's time for them to be back on the front burner". Careful what you wish for! This clip from Forbidden Love has Olli dealing with vision problems and unexplained headaches. (Oh ... my ... God. I've seen this before. A popular character has unexplained headaches but tries to hide it from everyone. I swear, if he leaves the show, then comes back played by Emma Samms, I'm never watching again!) Actually, I'm sure it has something to do with his assault at the hands of Axel, who shows up in this clip furious that he's losing sponsors because of the newspaper article. He threatens the guys, etc., but Christian is more interested in Axel's pal Kai, who he believes might be sympathetic towards their plight. As Christian meets with Kai, who looks a little like Gregor at 20/20 (20 yards away at 20 miles an hour), Olli is having more trouble focusing his eyes (and the camerawork and effects make it look like we're taking a heavy trip through Olli in Acidland). Unfortunately, Kai says he's too scared to defy Axel, but Christian has bigger fish to fry when he realizes that Olli is having problems. He orders him to rest, but Olli doesn't listen, which leads to a dramatic cliffhanger finale. I'm glad that the guys are back in top dramatic form, and I'm interested to see where they're going to go with this. BTW, there's been a lot of discussion online about Thore Schoelermann's behavior in this clip. People don't think he showed enough emotion, and they're puzzled by the scene in the bathroom where he seems to turn his head when Jo Weil tries to kiss him. Personally, I don't see it, but we'd like to hear your thoughts about it. You can see the clip after the break, and thanks again to Nanna and Gays of Daytime for the translations. Submitted by on Fri, 2008-09-19 14:22. |
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I'm gonna go with the "has
I'm gonna go with the "has a cold" theory (it was really noticable in the previous clip, the first one after his return and it's likely also the reason why Christian was suddenly away on on trip).
Other than that, after seeing today's VL clip I have to say snicks, you really seem to have a hand for the whole wishing/predicting thing as far as VL is concerned.
I think it's the writing and directing
I want to believe that people are reading too much into Christian's behavior, and thus Thore's acting. In this episode, Christian is written as narrowly focused on the whole Axel issue, that is why he seems a bit oblivious to Olli's situation.
As for the peck on the cheek, I think it was done that way on purpose--Olli isn't feeling well, so it makes sense that they don't go full-on sucking face. Considering how open Thore has been in his portrayal of Christian's love and desire for Olli in the past, it doesn't make sense that he would be reticent now.
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That's what I think
Considering how open Thore has been in his portrayal of Christian's love and desire for Olli in the past, it doesn't make sense that he would be reticent now.
You can argue with some people till the cows come home and you're blue in the face. That's what's happening on another forum in particular. People will see what they see and interpret what they see through whatever lens they carry. That's true for all of us so some perspective is called for. I guess my lens is a rosey one. I really don't get what the fuss is about but I'm willing to grant others their POV. What disturbs me is the accusatory tone the conversation started with. A tone that continues. The anger behind the words as if somehow Thore S. has "betrayed" fans. And the use of the "H word" when absolutely no evidence suggests the actor feels that way beyond what most of us carry simply from growing up in a homophobic world. Something he's admitted to grappling with. If he really had continuing issues you think he'd keep that under his hat. So every scene doesn't glitter and the guys don't stare all mooney eyed in every scene. That's what real relationships are. And for those who claim Thore, the actor, is letting the straight boy bleed through consider that Christian, the character, thought he was straight till a few months ago. Maybe that's what people are seeing? Or maybe we're being set up for the guilt and self-reproach that Christian's starting to exhibit over Ollie's bashing and now the brain bleed. I dunno. All I do know is - it's only a soap so everyone should chill - and it isn't fair to level accusations of "having issues with playing gay" when the guy has been so believable so far to so many of us.
Glad to finally see my
Glad to finally see my favorite couple together again for more that 1 min i think there are some sad times ahead for them and i sure hope they bouth come out of this unharmed.I hope this guy Kai will help our boys out and Axel wil get what he deserves.
About the issues some people seem to have with Thore's performers and the fact that these people are calling him homofobic i have to say WHAT A BUNCH OF BULL.Why would he be like that now when he did such a wonderfull job in the past in showing us a very real,tender and passionit relationship between 2 men, now all of the sudden he would be homofobic, it dos not make any sence at all.
Of cource people have the right to express what they feel about any show but to simple say something like that without any real basis is disrespectful to the actor and frankly nothing more than trolling.
To play's devil's advocate,
To play's devil's advocate, if I understand people's issues right it's precisely because he used to play the storyline so well that some people think that there is a difference compared to earlier.
So it's kinda two pronged. On one hand the question of whether or not things are different now and if they are indeed different what the reasons could be (all established couples invariably start sucking very quickly, actors don't like the material, it's part of the storyline, poor writing, having a cold). It seems to me half of the time people can't even agree whether things are different and if yes to what extent or whether it's to a normal degree.
I don't get the impression that people are bothered by his behavior in only this specific scene, but that's a more general complaint about the whole "vibe" over several weeks (for example a friend of mine who posts on livejournal and who is a very devoted fan complained recently that for her a lot of the scenes no longer "pop" the way they used to). Not one specific scene but the added effect of many different scenes. I think that some people arguging that there might have been a change is not the same as saying that homophobia is the reason for that change. Even if people agreed that there has been a change it could have a variety of other reasons and we could never know anyway what's true.
[I thought I should speak up since I have said before that I wasn't happy with how some other scene didn't work out to me 100% or how at the very least I was seeing something very different from what all the gushing people were seeing. To be exact I said that parts of the couch smother scene looked very "straight actor" to me.With that I didn't mean that Thore is a homophobe but more that he looked like a guy who at certain points looked like he didn't know what to do with himself and as a result the scene came off less fluid to me. So if anything I was arguing cluelessness or lack of skills/experience; a long shot away from homophobia]
changes
I think the dynamic has changed over time, but it's just the fact that they're not in the courtship phase anymore. Romances are always hot and sexy when the characters are longing for each other but are afraid to admit it, and neither of them really knows what the other is thinking, and it's all very angsty. Once a couple gets together, however, there is going to be some "normal time" between them. The characters are comfortable and relaxed around each other, instead of being all intense and moody, because they don't have all that unresolved sexual tension.
Maybe it shouldn't always stay like this. We should see moments of that "spark" between Christian and Ollie. But it's not going to be like that constantly, not even for fictional relationships on tv.
Doesn't that kinda show
Doesn't that kinda show though why happy relationships really have no place on soaps? I always cringe a bit when people talk disparagingly about "soap opera plot twists" but in reality those are the things (including triangles or breakups) that keep characters and couples interesting. In real life it is great to see a relationship where two people are completely in tune with each other and don't have any deep seated conflicts. On a soap it just doesn't work.
I think back to when VL did a honest effort with giving Carla and Susanne a long term comitted relationship while still retaining screentime (though even there most of it came from the two of them worrying about their kids) and getting lots of deliberate romantic scenes of them celebrating special days together with love scenes. And the result was still boring even though the actresses were obviously deeply dedicated to the story and the fanbase was very supportive.
Even if it is for the worst of reasons at the moment there is more dramatic tension between Nuke because even though they are together without major conflict at the moment they are drawing them having sex together out to insanity (even if it is for the worst of reasons, but the sideeffect is more dramatic tension between the characters): Or I look at Ansgar and Nathalie on VL, they are more or less an official couple and they are a lot of casually cute when they are working together, but added to that is those scenes "popping" because there is still dramatic tension between the characters, half because they have a messed up history and deeply disagree about with what measures they should fight and half definitely also because they haven't really slept together since they hooked up again and their relationship isn't fully out and official (since Ansgar is still married in name to the local villainess). Gregor and Rebecca tries to do the reverse, here they are having sex but drawing out that the characters tell each other their feelings.
Total happy comittment might be the mental ideal but every soap has motivation to draw out that time period before that as long as possible because that is where the dramatic tension comes from. It's also why almost any couple that is still in build up will beat out pretty much every couple that is in comittment phase.
I guess I can see where some of the frustrations comes from. Trying to do a happy couple on a soap strikes me as much harder than doing any other type of couple. So ideally that should mean that the writers and the actors need to put in extra effort when in reality it ends up being the other way around. With Ollian sometimes they do put that effort in and sometimes they don't and I do think that that can be frustrating. (though I do think they should get props for doing a job that is harder than other job; but I guess I can empathize with the feeling that you used to love something and praise something because you felt that it truly was the best and then feeling no longer justified because it no longer is the best.
[I have that with a lot of tv shows where the first season was truly inspiring and creative and I was lauding the shit out of it but then the point came where the writers just couldn't live up to the great promise the first season had. Smallville comes to mind or Prison Break. I do still appreciate that a show like Smallville can still live in it's what, 7th, 8th season? Any maybe every once in a while still come up with a creative twist. It is a feat on its own. But you can no longer use the same praise about it being creative and novel and being genuinely deep or complex because the writers didn't deliver on those things. I still like watching Smallville but I no longer feel like I can necessarily call it a good show in front of other people. And losing that can be sad sometimes. Not because you want to show off what a great show you are watching to other people but because it is a good feeling to be genuinely deeply excited for something; Praise the shows that actually manage to keep up that quality for many seasons [even if it is usually only cable shows or procedurals that manage that, and even there it is less than half who can do it]. I guess seeing that there are a few isolated cases out there that can manage it (shows that stay creatively fresh even after many seasons, couples that deep their dramatic tension and appeal undiluted even as a happy couple) it makes you wish that the thing you love was one of those. And it makes one sad to see that they aren't. That's not a complaint against the show on the couple. After all the majority of things don't achieve that goal so there is no shame in failing. It helps at looking at it as just another category. ]
Smallville, Prison Break
Off-topic alert!
I love watching Smallville but I have never considered it a "good" show. For me, it's a guilty pleasure, much like Charmed was. It has a mix of good acting (mostly the veteran actors like John Glover, Annette O'Toole and John Schneider), above average acting (Michael Rosenbaum, Alison Mack, Aaron Ashmore), ok acting most of the time (Tom Welling, Kristin Kreuk - but they're so beautiful, it doesn't matter) and wooden acting (from most guest stars). The scripts and storylines vary widely from execrable to fluffy fun but I would never describe them as good.
Prison Break should have been planned as a maxi-series and left at that. The fact that the writers/producers shoehorned the main characters into another prison setting just so they could escape again as per the show's title equates to "jumping the shark" imo.
Back to VL and Ollian!
I think viewers of the Ollian storyline via YouTube have been so spoiled by Jo & Thore's portrayal of this couple that there's the inevitable backlash. Virtually everyone seems to appreciate how, even when they're not the main focus of the show, they're still part of the VL community and involved in the stories and lives of Judith, Gregor & Rebecca, Olivia etc. Nevertheless, in these situations, they are still only background performers, i.e. window dressing. Often they barely have any lines or interaction with each other so how can anyone expect them to achieve the same level of emotional connection as when they are the front and centre in the storyline?
I think long-term relationships CAN work dramatically
Lola, I have to respectfully disagree that once a couple is "married," the drama goes out of their relationship. It's certainly true that many couple DO lose interest when they get married: I think Brad and Katie on ATWT are a prime, recent example of that.
But there are plenty of couples who do retain interest and spark for the audience after marriage: to take another ATWT example, Margo and Tom, despite not being featured much these days, have retained their spark after more than 20 years together.
I'm reminded most especially of two prime-time soap couples from the 80s: Karen and Mack's relationship on Knots Landing only went from strength to strength after their marriage, and Chase and Maggie started as a married couple on Falcon Crest, yet there was plenty of conflict in their relationship.
It's true that I've been frustrated with the backburning of Olli and Christian the past few months, though I enjoyed seeing them interact with Gregor, Lydia, Judith, Constantin, Olivia, etc.; and, in fact, had the show not laid the groundwork for these various relationships, the most recent episode where Olli and Christian came to the fore would not have had as strong an impact without this groundwork.
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I agree there are
I agree there are exceptions of couples who managed to be exciting even as a couple (though I still think that in most cases that was because they had some sort of internal personality conflict to keep them from FULLY being emotionally in tune with each other and/or they received their storylines mostly through their children). Most cases where it has been tried though the couples were already a supercouple (and even while a gay man who loved Ollian as a couple wrote them the show didn't write them as a premiere supercouple as far as scope was concerned) and even most of those cases failed. Also, most that worked were couples with on and off relationships (Ridge and Brooke, Victor and Nikki) and/or frequently even interrupted (and inadvertedly aided!) by actors leaving the show for a while (Luke and Laura, Bo and Hope, John and Marlena). Meaning that the couple were being held in the front spot through soap drama as opposed to them being truly a stable couple. In face, usually anything other than happy or stable.
I'm not even arguing that it is impossible for a happy, stable couple to retain their spark in a stable relationship (though I think it is extremely rare). Just that it is beyond rare and it might very well be that your (or my) chosen couple is not one that manages it.
On a slight side note, one thing I noticed in particular on primtetime shows is that it IS possible to write interesting stable relationships but most of the time ONLY if the couple were a couple already in the first episode as opposed to a couple that only gets to together over time. Examples include the marriage from Medium, the one from Friday Night Lights or the relationship between Brenda and Fritz on The Closer. It seems that couples are much easier to write if we actually never "met" the characters as individual personalities. If we first get to know the characters individually usually something will always be lost once they get together, hence, so many fun UST or push and pull romances beginning to suck once they characters actually get together.
relationship drama
Well, I think it makes sense to have drama in a relationship if you're on a soap. However, there has to be some happy time. Having the couple get together is the climax of the courtship storyline, but it's nice to have a denoument where fans can mellow out for a while and recouperate their energy.
After being happy for a while there should be a new challenge. It can't be constant angst, because then the fans will just get burnt out. There's an ebb and flow to these things. Also, I don't think couples should necessarily return to the way they were at courtship when faced with a new challenge. For example, if jealousy were to pull Ollian apart, I'd hope that Christian wouldn't go back to being completely unaware of his own feelings, although he may still have a difficult time expressing emotions that make him feel vulnerable. It's nice to see characters grow, while retaining the same essential personality.
But they have been happy.
But they have been happy. Happy and stable by soap standards. The problem is that "happy" doesn't look like romantic dinner dates and tons of time together. It looks like making fun of Gregor and Rebecca, holding Judith's hand through her latest love woes or caring about Olivia's latest antics. Soaps are about problems. Either you have your own problems or you care about somebody else's problems. But if you don't have problems then you are not going to be on.
Well, there's already
I don't mind it either
But perhaps that's because I genuinely like Gregor and Judith and Lydia and Constantin, etc. And, of course, any episode where Andreas Jancke takes his shirt off automatically makes it a grade-A, Emmy caliber episode!
Check out my blog: http://radicalsexy.blogspot.com/
But they have been happy.
But they have been happy. Happy and stable by soap standards. The problem is that "happy" doesn't look like romantic dinner dates and tons of time together. It looks like making fun of Gregor and Rebecca, holding Judith's hand through her latest love woes or caring about Olivia's latest antics. Soaps are about problems. Either you have your own problems or you care about somebody else's problems. But if you don't have problems then you are not going to be on.
Thore didn't turn is head, CHRISTIAN turned his head
But the chraracter didn't really turn his head anyway, he presented his cheek to Olli very sweetly while on his knees, holding his hand and giving him the "Are you really fine or are you just trying to get me to leave you alone" sideways fisheye that I recognize from many a previous girlfriend of mine....
I think folks watch these shows and feel like they have some personal insight into what these actors are personally thinking or feeling and I think that's crazy.
If the Director didn't want Christian to do what he did, doesn't it seem reasonable that it would never have made it to the screen?
I know we all really want to see loving affectionate gay and lesbian couples on screen who don't break up after five minutes and get to have relationships that are realistic and reasonable but sometimes I think our fear of homophobia at every corner makes us overly critical of actors and characters and writers who are trying to tell A story, not OUR story as they see fit.
Thore and Joe are being paid to play a part as directed and I have to think that whatever we finally see on the screen (even it its not to our personal liking) is what the Writer/Director/Editor intended.
All this "the reall Thore bleeding through" bollocks doesn't make sense.
Like any of us actually know Thore enough to know what his "bleeding through" would even look like...
We as a community have to get to a point where we can accept that some male actors really DON'T have any secret issues about kissing and being affectionate toward anothor actor when they are acting and stop waiting for actors' secret homophobia to creep through.
You never hear folks saying this kind of stuff about the female actors on the L WORD or South of Nowhere and almost all of them are straight actresses.
I know that "society" supposedly is more comfortable seeing women be affection with one another, but the same PTB who don't want NUKE having sex are none to thrilled about all the girl-on-girl shenanigans going on over on THE N and at Showtime/HBO. TRUST!
My point is, the actors themselves, shouldn't be overly critiqued and judged because the general homopobia that exits in western cultures at large (be it England, Germany or the US) has us all so on edge (and justifiably so) about how we are represented and who's representing us
SIGH...
Wow
Wow a Dynasty reference, sweet. I liked Pamela better.
I did think Christian was a little off in noticing Ollies strange behavior, Olivia noticed inmediatly, but I agree its because he so interested in making right a wrong that was done to his boyfriend. He still feels responsable and sees an opportunity to stick it to the Neanderthal.
Still, its evident that he notices, but since Olli keeps saying he is ok, he backs down. Who hasnt done that? There is no need to read anything more into that. Besides it makes for more drama.
When it comes to the kiss, I dont see it. Olivers intention is to kiss Christian on his cheak, not the lips. That is very evident from the start. And Chris turns to make it more available for him.
On another matter, I could not believe Joes acting here.
Brilliant episode!! Jo
Brilliant episode!! Jo Weil's acting was superb.
I've read some of the concerns that fans are having regarding the bathroom scene and Christian giving his cheek to Olli instead of his lips. Some even suggesting Thore pulls away. But I didn't see any pulling away. What I suspect is Thore's cold dictated that scene. The writers compensated for his cold. Thore was off from the set for a few episodes because he had a cold. The last two episodes was evident he was still fighting it. My take is the reason he may have given his cheek instead of his lips to Jo was because he didn't want to spread what he had to Jo, so I think the writers made exceptions.
I think what's happening is that some of us are so caught up in this storyline that we want a scene to be written and acted our way, but we need to have a reality check on ourselves. If a scene doesn't go the way we want, it isn't because the actors are having second thoughts, back tracking, etc...its because they are acting out what is written down on the script they are given, with a few added personal touches here and there from the actors. But they are following the script word for word and action for action.
I personally thought this was one of the best episodes in a long while. All around great acting, especially from Jo, who still looked hot as hell even in his sick state.
I'm now waitng anxiously for the translations for the next episode from Nanna.
liked this episode
Any plotline where Ollie gets sick worries me, but they're being realistic about the effects this kind of attack. I thought the minimal medical care that Ollie got was unwise, even if his motivations are understandable. Hopefully they won't break our hearts before he gets better.
I thought the cheek kiss was sweet and realistic. For couples who've been together a while and have developed a rapport, little gestures, such as a peck on the cheek, or a gentle punch in the arm, can be as intimate as playing tonsil hockey.
I love that Olivia and Ollie are friends again. I'm not sure why I enjoy Olivia-style bad guys so much but maybe it's because, when they do manage to selflessly demonstrate affection for somebody, it's actually quite touching. The Ollie/Olivia reunion was really sweet.
(By the way, I just can't manage to viewthis video on AE.com using either firefox or explorer. I had to find it on youtube. Am I the only one with this problem?)
Dailymotion is down
it's working again
The next episode
The next episode is pure soap opera heaven: an absolutely brilliant combo of pathos and camp, simply perfection!
Check out my blog: http://radicalsexy.blogspot.com/
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