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"Forbidden Love" video clip update: Now we're cooking! (with Axel grease)
Lots of good stuff on this pivotal clip from Forbidden Love, as Olli and Christian explain to a bewildered Constantin about the incident with Crazy Eyes Axel, and their inability to get any press about it. Constantin realizes he may be able to help, and rushes off to see Countess Chocula, who uses her connections to arrange a possible article about the guys. "Now if you'll excuse me, I have an audition with Cazzo!"
Crazy Eyes has the audacity to come into the bar, and tries to goad the guys into an altercation, until Gregor (looking hotter than ever in a form fitting t-shirt) literally kicks him out of the place. This leads to an absolutely perfect example of a SLOW CLAP, which usually has me rolling my eyes, but was entirely appropriate in this case. write your own caption
Back at home, Constantin comes by to inform the guys that the article will run, but only if Axel is put on trial. Since that's an inevitability (*ahem*), the boys celebrate in the classic Ollian way (complete with translated muffled sounds - love it!). The rest we'll leave to you, but the foreshadowing at the beginning of this clip made the outcome pretty easy to guess. Hopefully, the guys will be able to deal with the ramifications, but I really enjoyed both the drama and especially the goofy giddiness in this episode. And it's great to see their friends rally with them, and for the guys not to be leery of asking for help. You can see the clip after the break, and thanks again to Nanna and The Gays of Daytime. Submitted by on Tue, 2008-08-26 14:06. |
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I LOVE CHRISTIAN AND OLLI
These two are the best actors! Their chemistry and passion and playful banter are genuine and believable. Because of them, I've drug out my old Deutsch book from college and am doing some review. Ich liebe Olli und Christian :)
And the writers are doing a damn good job, too.
Charles Alan Long
I fully agree with you
I fully agree with you Charles Alan...the chemistry, passion and complete believability is something rarely seen on screen between two actors. And yesterday's episode lived up to that title.
Yesterday's episode was one of the best i've seen yet the Ollian story. The acting was very good and full of emotion. We went from Olli and Christian being hopeless to overjoyed, and then to disappointment when Axel's case was dropped. We had passion, and cuteness, and sweet kisses and playfulness. The couch scene was all kinds of wonderful. And I loved the ending with Christian's "leave my boyfriend alone" in protecting Olli from the monster who is Axel.
The writers are doing a terrific job. I can't get enough of Ollian.
I agree...
Cute
Christian is hotter than ever on this episode, there is something about boys in night out shirts that just drives me crazy >.>
Also, this shows another reason why Christian didnt go out and kick Axel's butt before... he's on probation.
Ollian are beyond adorable
I have a speculation. I
I have a speculation. I also want to acknowledge that I hesitate to speculate like this because I don't want to risk offending what few allies we have out there who sympathize with us, who are not afraid to stand with us despite the fact that they are not gay.
I can also understand that actors can be sensitive about their privacy and their personal lives and I agree that outside scrutiny related to their roles, they haven't really given over their whole life to us.
I just want to say out loud what is at the back of all our minds - are Jo and Thore really dating in real life? Cos they look sooooo beliavably in love together, and those tiny gestures speak to a LOT of comfort with each other.
Before anyone asks such speculation isnt in and of itself offensive, except that Jo has publically said he is tired of answering speculation on his sexuality which I can understand.
I can answer to that speculation immediately
They have GREAT chemistry
Friendship
This is what makes Jo and
This is what makes Jo and Thore stand out from other actors who have played lovers on screen...they just have this amazing chemistry and comfort zone with each other that is so rare to see. Their body language and their little gestures towards each other are so true to life. They make one heck of a convincing couple.
The fact that you divineseeker, along with many others who have speculated about their relationship off screen is a testament to how well Jo and Thore have been in their ability to pull off this on screen relationship. But this is a SOAP, and they are actors who are simply doing a brilliant job of telling a love story between two men.
Not it you believe the
Not it you believe the actors.
Jo mentioned in fall that he was in a long term relationship (4 years and more) this February and in the interview he gave in summer to a Cologne channel it kind of sounded like that might likely still be going on. Plus, there have been internet people who claim Jo took a boyfriend to Cologne Pride. (if you want to believe internet sources who don't give their name)
On the other hand Thore has had always had a bit of a reputation of very errr girl friendly. Not just from his own interviews but stories of him being slightly more flirty with fans than necessarily appropriate.
They also didn't spend their recent vacation with each other (Thore went to Sweden to pick up Swedish girls according to him, Jo went to Mallorca).
Of course you can never know the exact details of what the relations between actors are, still it's funny that this clip should make you wonder if they are dating. Because I was just comparing this scene to a similar couch scene between "Roman" and "Deniz" on AWZ where the two were making out on the couch and the AWZ scene looked a lot more fluid and natural to me whlie in comparison the VL scene in comparison looked like you could see the hesitation marks of the actors (also, the AWZ actors rumoredly also aren't dating. Dennis Grabosch supposedly has a regular boyfriend in London while Igor Dolgatschew has a long term girlfriend, a designer who is older than him; again, if course you can never rule out that any actors had some hanky panky going on, but there is nothing that necessarily implies it other than the fact that they have chemistry. And I think it serves particularly soap fans well to learn to distinguish between reality and the manufactured dream that soaps are presenting).
VL vs AWZ
Lola, I wonder if the difference isn't so much the chemistry between the actors but, rather, the overall production approach: VL is filmed in a classic three-camera style, with simple editing, whereas AWZ looks like a Britney Spears video, with fast cuts and whooshing cameras. The latter style hides any hesitations or imperfections in the acting, whereas the former style rests more heavily on the actors' ability to convey the emotion.
This isn't meant to slight Dennis and Igor (they're both terrific actors), but whenever I watch AWZ, I want to fly to Germany just to buy a tripod for the camera operator and some Valium for the editor!
Check out my blog: http://radicalsexy.blogspot.com/
Physical realism
I really used to hate the camera style of AWZ but I have gotten somewhat used to it. It does drive me batshit that it seems that they can't go for one episode without at least one musical montage it seems. I vaguely remember an episode which I think had see separate music montages within the same episode. *headdesk*
As for physical realism, while VL is good with little touches like Olli rubbing Christian's ear or Christian darting forward to bite Olli after they kissed, imo AWZ is the one that strikes me much more as having above typical physical/sensual realism. Just take the recent making out scene on the couch which looks like real making out, just the way their legs and bodies are intertwined. Compared to that the VL scene has just a mini peck at the end and when Christian stradles Olli it seems like he is actively looking for a position that doesn't have too much contact. Which made my mind immediately go "Yepp, straight actor." rather than me truly seeing the character. Compare that to for example the scene where a drugged out Deniz kisses Roman and sort of darts his crotch forward. Now that's eyebrow raising dedication.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not really a VL vs. AWZ person. I don't really think AWZ is flawless. I don't particularly like Deniz and Roman as a couple, I find the writing for this particular storlyine leaves much to be desired with all the odd breaks and I don't think that they are immune to bad acting. (for example, I think both actors have the temptation to overact. A recent scene that comes to my mind was Roman going to Deniz and telling him that he saw Bulle and Deniz not believing him. To me it looked like both actors were desperately trying to outact each other, making the whole scene look a bit stupid to me [not exactly aided by the crazy camera]). But yeah, physical scenes are something they are usually good at on a physical level.
For that reason I have no hard time believing the story that Jo and Thore are mostly good pals in real life. Because when people cite the amazing chemistry and subtle touches I think of scenes in the passion category and that I can think of scenes/shows/actors who have done more. Heck, even Nuke are not incapable of having their own "little touches". While I don't doubt that Jo and Thore can rack up the romantic realism for example in scenes like the much cited breath me scene, there are also scenes, probably less important scenes from a storyline POV where they seem much more like best pals. This scene with the spinning and the pillow choking is a prime example. It looks like two pals having a great time. And of course it is always great to watch scenes where people seem to be genuinely having a great time. But it's not the kind of thing that makes me jump to "Oh man, they are likely sleeping with each other" conclusions.
(again, I don't think that DG and ID are sleeping together either; It's just strange when I see certain things cited in favor of Ollian when I think it's an area where they could actually do with a bit more work)
Lola...
"As for physical realism, while VL is good with little touches like Olli rubbing Christian's ear or Christian darting forward to bite Olli after they kissed, imo AWZ is the one that strikes me much more as having above typical physical/sensual realism. Just take the recent making out scene on the couch which looks like real making out, just the way their legs and bodies are intertwined. Compared to that the VL scene has just a mini peck at the end and when Christian stradles Olli it seems like he is actively looking for a position that doesn't have too much contact. Which made my mind immediately go "Yepp, straight actor." rather than me truly seeing the character. Compare that to for example the scene where a drugged out Deniz kisses Roman and sort of darts his crotch forward. Now that's eyebrow raising dedication."
I actually didn't see any hesitation on Thore's part regarding the couch scene, and i've watched it several times already. I thought the whole scene looked very natural and fluid. Now, even though I don't follow AWZ, I have seen those kissing and couch scenes you mention and they DO have more bodily contact as well as heavier lip contact. For me though regarding AWZ, more isn't always better. Even when Deniz and Roman were together as a couple in love at the begining of their relationship, which I did catch on YouTube, they just never had that closeness, tenderness and natural loving feel I see regarding Olli and Christian. Plus, I never found them as a couple very appealing. I don't following Denzi and Roman's storyline right now, but have seen the odd clip and it isn't very attractive to me. Still, it's just my opinion. We see what we want to see in characters we are attracted to and those not so much.
I'm not a fan of AWZ. I
I'm not a fan of AWZ. I have a truckload of issues with how the Deniz and Roman storyline was written and personally I thought it was underdeveloped from a romantic POV even back in the supposed golden days. There is no doubt that the Oliver and Christian relationship is much more developed, that they are a solid couple, that the writers actually gave some thought to why these two characters would go well together.
But I'm looking at this from a purely physicality level and IMO if you showed an outsider only this couch scene and only the DeRo couch scene, with no background on the characters I'm pretty sure most would deduce that Deniz and Roman look more sexually into each other, look more believably gay rather than like actors enacting a gay scene.
Though maybe it's unfair to compare those two. The Ollian couch scene is a great scene because it radiates joy. It just happens to be very chaste. DeRo also had a period where they were a relatively happy couple, which also featured hello and goodbye kisses and making out on the couch and to me the whole "being into each other" aspect to me came out much more. [again, I do think that Ollian has also had scenes where they felt truly into each other; particularly at the beginning of their relationship; to me this one just wasn't one of them. To me it felt very actor-y and not very couple-y. Of course everybody has their own way of reading scenes and this just happens to be mine. For the record, to me the hesitation moment is when Christian settles down on Olli and it looks like he is looking for a position that doesn't have too much contact and is very adament about keeping this certain amount of distance even as they interact].
Sure Ollian exchange a hot look in the end. But please, even Nuke is capable of exchanging hot looks.
Lola...I did go and watch
Lola...I did go and watch the scene again a few times, which wasn't difficult to do, and I still don't see the hesitation. Now granted, Thore had to lift and spin Jo who weighs around 175-180 pounds, I reckon...then he had to body slam him down on the couch...then he respositioned himself with his legs outside of Jo's legs and then he settles down around Olli's waistline area. And I honestly looked hard for that hesitation, but I truly didn't see anything except a smooth and consistant scene.
I took this scene as one of joy and happiness for both who were feeling good because of what just happened. But it also came off as very sexy and beautiful even though there wasn't the full on body pumping that goes on between Deniz and Roman. And there is no denying that DeRo are more sexual, but I just don't feel them. Ollian just have that high level of romance and sensuality which puts them at that classic love story level and is why I much prefer them to any other couple presently on TV.
I do respect your opinion Lola and actually love to read up on how others view a particular scene differently. To me...it's all good!!
I thought this episode was
I thought this episode was really cute and mushy! Well, obviously apart from the fact that the airhead Axel showed up to ruin the party. Also how awesome was Gregor when he kicked Axel out of the bar? Go Mann brothers!! :)
Also I agree with a lot of people here that Jo & Thore have amazing chemistry together and are really believable as an on-screen couple in love. It's only natural that people will start wondering whether they are really a couple. Just shows how wonderful and natural actors these both guys are.
loved it
Sweetly OUTSTANDING episode
This episode contains one of the four best moments of Ollian, according to me. Honestly, I rate the couch scene as the best so far unless another best comes along. It really portrays the solidity of their romantic relationship even in the midst of trials and dangers(one of those is AXEL d' DEVIL). This makes the OLLIAN storyline simply OUTSTANDING.
jb1483
Really?!
Well said
woah!
I also love that scene, the one you mentioned. But I chose the couch scene as the best for it happened when I have seen OLLIAN's relationship very solid. The love-consummating scene is the best love scene of OLLIAN.
The couch scene is the best and sweetest moment where I can see them very happy with all smiles, giggles, laughters, antics and all and definitely in LOVE.
jb1483
The couch scene, although a
The couch scene, although a great scene, but for me still ranks below the scene where Christian confesses his love for Olli. To me that was one of the most beautiful and sensual moments ever put on film between two people. And they had the perfect song to match every frame of that scene. Every moment was great.
IMO, that is it
I think my preference is really different from yours and the others here. I have certain criteria that may vary from what you have.
But anyway, I respect your judgment. The similarity we have, needless to say, is we both love OLLIAN. But the intensity of it is... never mind. peace!
jb1483
And when they're not fighting the good fight for gay boxers
everywhere, they play ball
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMeTFeEXOxs
Absolutely LOVE the couch
Absolutely LOVE the couch scene and Gregor throwing Axel out of the bar.
As much as I'd love to fantasize that Jo and Thore are together in real life, I doubt that's the case. In interviews, whenever Jo mentions Thore it's usually as a professional colleague.
In addition to their great acting, we're also responding to good writing and directing. You wonder if there are some gays on the VL staff to get this level of authenticity or if it's just really hip straight people.
I think there are...
I think there are gay people on the VL staff.
Not only did VL care very much about their gay storylines before, but like I once wrote I remember when a posh and jealous ex-girlfriend of Carla referred to her then-girlfriend Susanne as a "diesel dyke", which was a term unknown to me and I guess 95% of the German viewers (except for maybe some lesbian ones). The others wouldn't know the English word "dyke" for a lesbian to begin with. Every person (including me as a gay person) would have understood the German term "Kampflesbe" though.
So I thought VL must have some insiders of the scene within their writing staff...
VL's (former) head writer is gay.
I've just come across that VL's head writer, Tom Chroust, who created Ollian, is an out gay man. So, your assumption has been right :-)
He states this on his myspace page.
http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=407935884
The Gays Of Daytime webpage will do an interview with him where you can submit questions.
Unfortunately he has been replaced recently. The head writer now in charge is Peter Schlesselman. I don't know about this guy though and what we (and Ollian) can expect from him....?
Christian's Hesitation On Top Of Olli
It's funny that you saw the hesitation as having something to do with the actors not wanting to be physically close. Seems like such a stretch to me. I had a totally opposite reaction to that moment (I love the moment by the way so clearly I'm biased)
Christian and Oliver's lives had been so incredibly serious and scary for like the last month I just took Christian's moment of hesitence as a literal "taking a step back" (or in this case, scooting back on his knees).
Christian was all giddy and silly and happy and then all of a sudden, there he was, on his couch, on top of of his boyfriend, who was there with him, wedged between his knees even, and safe. They were happy together, it was like he was just taking it all in, more seriously for just a moment.
It had to be such a relief for Christian to think their story was going to be told and they might get some kind of justice. It surely must have been a struggle to remain calm and hopeful given everthing that was going on. Also, he couldn't physically protect Olli from Axel (not that it's his job to do so) but his character is the type who would have wanted to and because of his probation, he couldn't do anything accept wait and rely on others. There he was waiting in a bubble bath while Olli was getting the "toaster strudel" kicked out of him. It must have been maddening.
When Christian scooted back, I just took it as one of those tiny lovely moments, a literal manifestation of his taking stock of the situation. Just taking all that was Olli in.
Then he kinda got this "Now what shall I do with you Oliver?" look on his face and got silly again.
I think it's weird to attribute Christian's movents to THORE the actor rather than CHRISTIAN the chracter without any basis.
Is there any reason to believe that Thore would be uncomfortable straddling Jo?
After all the scenes they've had together, It hardly seems likely that Thore would be uncomfortable at this point (or if he was, why whould he show it? why would the director allow it to show?)
But again it's all conjecture since neither one of us can be inside Thore's head.
If we just go with what we're seeing (and have been seeing) than we have to assume that Christian the character loves Ollie, is sexually attracted to him, and wouldn't hesitate to straddle him (regardless of the proximity of their boyparts).
As for Roman and Deniz, their entire relationship is fraught and full of high drama and they are both very dramatic people. I love that couch scene particularly the way Deniz Leaps Over The Back Of The Couch (obviously given my ICON)
I think it's in keeping with how Deniz and Roman relate to each other. All build up and explosions (even when they were a couple). Their love scenes have always been very passionate and a lot more naked (ahem, all that slamming and banging about the locker room walls then Roman backing away from the locker room floor with only his naughty bits covered by a towel ANYONE?)
I don't know if you'd see that kind of over sexuality on VL. I don't watch the whole show so I really can't say
It seems that VL and AWZ are just different in the way that they handle sex. CHROLLI are shot more like a couple in love (who've been together a while). Their love scenes are very tender and sweet.
DENRO are shot more like teenage lovers (though Roman is mid 20s) who have to GET IT ON RIGHT HERE, RIGHT NOW! all the time. Very different sensibility.
I appreciate them both but accept that they are telling different kinds of stories.
I didn't see that at all.
I didn't see that at all. And I honestly don't think it's that deep.
VL has many different directors and it can sometimes be hit and miss. Ollian too can be hit and miss in how they come across (and to me this particular aspect was a miss). VL is also hit and miss in a lot of other storylines and sometimes they have to let scenes stand even though they might not be perfect. Jo himself has said that a lot of the little details come from them and NOT from the directors. So yes, I think a director would absolutely let it stand. It's still a soap opera that has to shoot a LOT of scenes every day and doesn't have the liberty of redoing a scene 50 times. Particularly since the Ollian storyline isn't a priority at the moment compared to the others that are going on. Soaps just aren't that perfectionist. They simply don't have the time for it.
"It hardly seems likely that Thore would be uncomfortable at this point"
Maybe all the attention is starting to creep him out? Maybe he doesn't like the material and therefore is less emotionally involved? Maybe he had a bad day? Maybe he wasn't sure how to do it right? Whatever he did, it didn't work for me and I'm just mentioning because there have been a bunch of kissing scenes lately that just looked too impersonal to me. It's not a question of being like AWZ and constantly ripping each others clothes off. You can do sweet romance rather than passion romance and still do it right. Besides, I thought Nuke were the "We are so sweet and loving and committed we don't actually need passion" couple of the trio. I'd hate for Ollian to end up like that.
"I don't know if you'd see that kind of over sexuality on VL."
I have no idea who it depends on (whether it is an actor, writer or director thing) but VL had a lot of very graphic love scenes, gay or straight that could easily compare to AWZ.
Some of the most explict ones were Leonard and Cecile, Carla and Hanna, Leonard and Sarah, Tom and Ulli (the first major gay couple VL had, you can find the scene on youtube).
people would really hate me right now...
before you do, though... please remember that i am a die hard fan of this show and i love Ollian so much that in my past posts i have defended them to death and fought with anyone who made a negative comment about thore and jo not just here in AE but in gaysofdaytime as well (and by the way - there are a lot of new faces here at this blog that i am sooo happy that a Ollian's fan base is growing more and more everyday!!) i have been writing my comments since april when AE first took notice of this wonderful show...
but...i really, really hate saying this... as much as i totally adore this couch scene.. i'm with Lola on this one... while the couch was pure heaven... i did notice that Thore held back a little... (AND MIND YOU - NOT ALWAYS - just this particular scene) -- come to think of it.. this is the first time i felt like this... everytime i see our boys together you feel as if they are joined in the hip...
i thought of making excuses for Thore and that maybe he took a misstep that made him jump in the couch not near enough where he would sit comfortably in Jo's hips.... i don't know.... but i can see where lola is coming from... i have never seen thore held back before so i was just wondering why i felt this way re the couch scene(it was still very very adorable and utterly beautiful - just probably needed another take)
okay... i have crucified people before for making negative comments about the lovely Thore and Jo... so it's time i get my own crucifixion... you can all hate me now.
people would really hate me right now...
before you do, though... please remember that i am a die hard fan of this show and i love Ollian so much that in my past posts i have defended them to death and fought with anyone who made a negative comment about thore and jo not just here in AE but in gaysofdaytime as well (and by the way - there are a lot of new faces here at this blog that i am sooo happy that a Ollian's fan base is growing more and more everyday!!) i have been writing my comments since april when AE first took notice of this wonderful show...
but...i really, really hate saying this... as much as i totally adore this couch scene.. i'm with Lola on this one... while the couch was pure heaven... i did notice that Thore held back a little... (AND MIND YOU - NOT ALWAYS - just this particular scene) -- come to think of it.. this is the first time i felt like this... everytime i see our boys together you feel as if they are joined in the hip...
i thought of making excuses for Thore and that maybe he took a misstep that made him jump in the couch not near enough where he would sit comfortably in Jo's hips.... i don't know.... but i can see where lola is coming from... i have never seen thore held back before so i was just wondering why i felt this way re the couch scene(it was still very very adorable and utterly beautiful - just probably needed another take)
okay... i have crucified people before for making negative comments about the lovely Thore and Jo... so it's time i get my own crucifixion... you can all hate me now.
I don't hate you
I don't hate you Markie27...it's just your opinion and you're entitled to it.
Lola, you got Jo's
Lola, you got Jo's relationship status wrong. It says on his MySpace page that he's currently single and Thore had mentioned that he is single himself.
The part about Jo'
Thore's Hesitation?
I'm really surprised people thought the way the couch scene was blocked indicated some hesitancy on Thore's part. I didn't get that at all. I suspect it was a directorial choice that had him raise up and have Jo pound on his stomach before they did the bit with the pillow. I thought it was a very erotic and intimate scene that the actors were committed to 100%.
I doubt very seriously Thore has a problem with the physical stuff since previous love scenes have been far racier than this one. In fact, it's amazing how UN-hesitant Jo and Thore have been in their love scenes, so much so that some people think they're dating in real life!
Check out new Youtube vid
This conversation gives me a good opportunity to mention a new Christian and Ollie vid put up by a fellow named TorridGermanLove. Note: I don't know the guy so I'm not touting a friend's work. It's just a very good fan vid entitled - Christian & Oliver - Sweet Dreams. I'd link it but my advanced dotage and the fact that I just woke up prevent any complicated functioning this AM but it's easy enough to find. It's done in slow motion with lots of mirror effects and some luscious music - so fucking romantic it's positively cinematic. The point is you watch that vid and so many little details spring to life. Thor sliding an open mouth across Jo's bare shoulder. Hand placement. Grazing nipples. The looks exchanged. The deep eye contact. Thor's not sliding away from any thing. The physicality is just far more nuanced than I'd noticed before. The key scene, where Christian finally admits though he's fought it he's in love with Ollie, is truly expressive of what it's like to be newly out and tentative - Thor/Christian - and hungry as hell for the man you're "head over heels" for - Jo/Ollie. I've been there. Both sides. Seemed authentic to me. Whatever. If you're a Vl fan and want to re-experience the best Ollie/Christian kisses in a new way just go watch the vid.