Harry Potter and the Half-Hidden Subtext?
The trailer for the upcoming Harry Potter & The Half Blood Prince is online, and it's already got gay (and non-gay) blogs buzzing. Ever since author J.K. Rowling announced that the beloved Albus Dumbledore, headmaster of Hogwart's, was gay, people have been wondering if references would eventually make it in to the remaining films in the series. If the makers of the latest entry were hoping to dispel that, the new trailer certainly doesn't help. We briefly see Harry (Daniel Radcliffe), but most of the trailer is a flashback to a younger Dumbledore (Michael Gambon), and his first meeting with the young Tom Riddle (later known as Voldemort). In an interesting casting note, Tom is played as an 11 year old by Hero Fiennes-Tiffin, who is the nephew of Ralph Fiennes, who plays the older Voldermort. So where is the gay interest? Well, in one scene in the trailer, the young Tom asks Albus, "Who are you?" and he responds "I'm a lot like you, Tom ... I'm different". Well, that X-Men-style remark is enough to get tongues wagging, though one writer is a bit confused. (I guess it is easy to get your iconic wizards mixed up, though.) You can see the trailer after the break, and we'd like your thoughts. Is it much ado about nothing, or possibly a nod to the character's ... um, future history? Or were you too busy thinking "geez, how many more of these movies are there?" Submitted by on Wed, 2008-07-30 12:42. Reading too much into itSubmitted by
Psionycx (7936 points) (1610 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 13:33.I agree Brent. Those familiar with the story know that young Tom Riddle was living in a Muggle orphanage. "Different" in this context is a clear reference to the fact that Dumbledore and Tom are both Wizarding folk, as opposed to the Muggles that Tom has grown up surrounded by. Sure, that could be seen as a gay metaphor, just like the whole mutant thing in the X-Men comics and movies is. But the reality is that we see plenty of heterosexuality in both story worlds so I don't think that either group of unusual people is an explicit metaphor for homosexuality. To Say, or Not to Say...Submitted by
David E is a Fraud! (315 points) (162 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 16:07.
Alas, I think that interpretation is...a bit of a reach. But it would be great to see his being gay referred to in the movies at some point!
I tend to disagree. It really has nothing at all to do with the story and (to my mind) would only be an example of sensationalism. For me, it's a stronger statement to exclude a mention (on screen). We all know that the character of Dumbledore is gay. The author's already told us so. Why not just accept it and let the story play out "normally"?
-Sibelius "It's curtains for you, Dr. Horrible. Lacy, wafting curtains..." i do think it is relevantSubmitted by
Bountiful (1335 points) (357 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 19:43.If some subtle reference is made to Dumbledore's feelings when talking about Grindelwald, I do believe that would be relevant to the story, because Dumbledore's reaction to somebody he loved helps us understand him better. (Although if I remember correctly, Grindelwald isn't discussed much until book 7.)
DumbledoreSubmitted by
Psionycx (7936 points) (1610 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 22:56.I remember noting Elphias Doge's (Dumbledore's school chum) adoration of him as sounding a bit like a crush. There was also vague subtext to the Grindelwald backstory. But none of it was very developed, not even in Deathly Hallows. Rowling doesn't dwell too long flashbacks, only using them when relevant to the present time story events. And by the present time in the Harry Potter novels Dumbledore is quite elderly and has generally been rather ascetic since the family disaster his brief flirtation with Grindelwald and world domination brought on. Dumbledore is thus rather priestly (in a good way) in his depiction, and there isn't any real "gay" content in the books per se. In fairness, none of the Hogwart's teachers seem to have any real romantic and/or sexual aspects. They're all a rather cloistered group of people who, like Dumbledore, lead very ascetic lifestyles. It will remain to be seen what, if any, hints pop up in the Deathly Hallows movie. This would have to come from the director, since there really wasn't anything strongly suggestive in the book. That was why Rowling's revelationmade such a big splash in the first place. As a big harry potter fan ISubmitted by
krisu50 (85 points) (18 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 13:39.As a big harry potter fan I have to say that I´ve never liked the movies, I always felt that Dumbledore was a much wathered down version of his self from the books, and I think that the gay subtext might be there effectively. After watching the trailer I went to get my copy of the sixth book and that part was rewritten for the movie. In the book he says much more directly to Tom Riddle that he is a wizard, he does not say that he is ´different´.
Also I don´t know if it´s the actor that plays dumbledore or if the director wanted it that way but dumbledore comes off as much dumber in the movies... is it just me or are there others that think likewise? From the bookSubmitted by
Jonathan (915 points) (191 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 14:11.I believe that line is directly out of the book. It's clear, even in the context of the trailer, that "different" is very specifically in the context of being wizards. The author of the piece, Choire Sich, appears to have a bit of a hard on for teh gays. I'm not sure if it's an O'Reilly style hard on or a Perez Hilton style one, but, frankly, I stopped caring two paragraphs into the second blog post I sampled. I would remind everyone that this is exactly the kind of crap that was addressed in the TCA post on Sanctuary. Metaphorical subtext isn't gay content. It's metaphorical subtext that can be applied to the gay experience, generally much like it could be applied to the Jewish experience. If Rowling had breathlessly revealed Dumbledore was Jewish in that reading, would the scene in the trailer have read any differently? Considering the use of fire, it might even be more apt. A Lot of Tempest in a Pot of TeaSubmitted by
David E is a Fraud! (315 points) (162 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 15:52.If J.K. Rowling hadn't made her announcement, it would never have occurred to Choire Sicha to write that blurb. What some people won't do for attention... -Sibelius "It's curtains for you, Dr. Horrible. Lacy, wafting curtains..." Micahel GambonSubmitted by
Insideguy (2490 points) (496 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 16:40.Is such a talented actor that I can see we will still be discussing this long after the film is released. To most Americans all the British come across as too effete to be straight and yet they continue to multiply like all the other countris of the world. Would Dumbledore actually drag his sexuality out in front of his young charges, wizard or not? His sexuality is only in the backstory per J.K. Rowling. I don't recall any line in the book like, "Harry, will you please wait outside while Ifinish spooging this hot Quiditch player." gambonSubmitted by
Lily of the valley (486 points) (171 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 16:52.sir michael used to be a homosexual once...
...but he was forced to give it up
...because it made his eyes water (!)
at least that was what he told some journalist who annoyed him with questions if it was difficult for him to play oscar wilde okay, that Gambon/Wilde quote is hilariousSubmitted by
Brian Juergens (1205 points) (6471 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 17:43.Gambon is also wonderful in Brideshead Revisited, if you haven't caught it yet. He can say more with a loaded glare...
bridesheadSubmitted by
Lily of the valley (486 points) (171 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 18:20.no I haven't - but I'm so going to. It will be out in the cinemas in october around here. My favourite Gambon role is that of squire hamley in "wives and daughters" which might count as a chick flick or chick mini series - but as I'm a chick I don't care. I absolutely fell in love with gambon there as this old fashioned english peer with total love for his sons but failing to keep up with them (one of them being tom hollander) and modern times. He's so touching in it and as far as I remember got a bafta-award for playing that role Is there actually any gay subtext to Dumbledore?Submitted by
db (3180 points) (661 posts) on Wed, 2008-07-30 23:22.I mean, if Rowling hadn't said that she liked to think Dumbledore had a gay relationship when he was younger would the character read at all gay? I mean, any more than most wizards?
HA!Submitted by
David E is a Fraud! (315 points) (162 posts) on Thu, 2008-07-31 01:14.
I mean, if Rowling hadn't said that she liked to think Dumbledore had a gay relationship when he was younger would the character read at all gay? I mean, any more than most wizards?
-Sibelius "It's curtains for you, Dr. Horrible. Lacy, wafting curtains..." |
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