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"Hollyoaks" video clip: Kieron's final farewell
Well, I wasn't expecting this. After a few clips that have been, frankly, underwhelming, I wasn't prepared to be gutpunched. The first of today's two Hollyoaks clips starts with John Paul receiving a message from Craig reminding him that they're supposed to meet for drinks. Back at McQueen manor, Myra tells Michaela that she promised J.P. they would all do something to pay tribute to Kieron. When Myra mentions something about holding their own service, her daughter's eyes widen, and she goes Full Michaela™. As expected, their idea of a service is, let's just say..inevitable. J.P. is upset by the tackiness, and reminds them that it's the same service they gave for Bobby...who was the family dog. Jacqui offers to take J.P. to the cemetery to pay his respects the proper way (I guess she's trying to make up for the slap heard round the blogosphere), while Myra and Michaela manage to be quite affecting in saying their own goodbyes. What happens at the cemetery is a testament to the stellar acting of James Sutton, who turns what could have been a maudlin moment into an emotional knock-out. And I never thought the pushing of a "delete" button could pack such a whallop. In the second clip, it's all J.P. and Craig, but the talk is all about Kieron. J.P. tells Craig that things have changed since Kieron died, and there's no way they can be together now. Craig tries to convince J.P. that he's ready to be with him now, but J.P. tells him to "find your own Kieron". They hug and say goodbye, but there's a surprise in store for J.P. at the very end of the clip. It's going to be very interesting to see how TPTB make the "sunset ending" happen. Right now, J.P. and Craig seem as far away from that as can be, so it's gonna take a lot of heavy lifting from the actors and writers to get some people to buy it. You can see the second clip after the break, and what did you think of Kieron's final farewell, and how they're setting up the SE? Let us know in the comments! Submitted by on Wed, 2008-09-17 14:00. |
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Craul makes me sick
Snick's this is one of the few times where I don't totally agree with you. I agree that James' acting was incredible as always, I just wasn't moved by his words at Kieron's grave. But, I was moved by the heartfelt emotions of Michaela. While Michaela honored Kieron and who he was, John Paul's words at the cemetary and the SUBar were all about him and his guilt. It comes across like John Paul isn't mourning the man that he loved, but more like he feels guilty and boxed in by what happened. He says that he could have helped Kieron, if Kieron had just talked to him, but according to this clip, John Paul has been lying to Kieron for months about their relationship, and we know he was lying to him during the last two weeks of Kieron's life, when he wouldn't tell Kieron what was wrong.
I'm also upset by the words "I guess something was missing." First of all, I didn't notice anything missing during the last nine months, and if it was missing, shouldn't the writers have shown it to us. Shouldn't we have seen signs that John Paul still wanted to be with Craig, and that he was more interested in how in love Kieron was with him, more so than the man himself.
And Craul, thank goodness we only have two more days of them. They are both so self-centered. The writers haven't shown us that Craig has changed, or that he even understands why John Paul left him in the airport last year, so how am I to believe that a SE can happen. Both still believe that Kieron's death is about them, and not that a man died. In a way the two deserve each other, but it is hard to believe that two self-centered people can be in a relationship.
This whole SE idea makes no sense, and it is sad that the writers had to re-write JPK and destroy Craul in order to make it happen.
Just to clarify
Erm, how is saying something
It makes sense to me too.
It makes sense to me too. You don't always fall madly in love with the "best" person or the one you "should" be with. As I've found out in my own life..... :)
Judge it by what's shown on screen
It's re-writing history, because as I said, we the audience were never given any clue that something was missing, at least I didn't pick up on anything. And while shows normally change directions, the fact that this was done to force a SE, in a storyline that has been fast tracked in forced for the past three weeks (that JP has been on the air) does not sit well with me.
We weren't shown that JPK were not madly in love, and I know that some people feel that tthere weren't, but most of these people are basing their opinion on the fact that they like JPC and so they didn't like JPK just for the mere fact that Kieron wasn't Craig. That bias aside, this storyline hasn't been thought through. Mainly because it makes no sense to have a SE so soon after Kieron died. It also doesn't make sense to have one without showing John Paul and Craig working through their problems. There was a reason that John Paul left Craig last year, and not loving him was not one of those reasons. So how is a SE appropriate now, when it wasn't last year.
By the way, just because John Paul thinks something was missing with Kieron, that doesn't mean that he has everything that he needs and wants with Craig. As he told Craig last year in the airport, he needs and deserves more. It speaks to the bias that I was talking about to automatically say that JPK didn't have the level of love that JPC have.
not a happy bunny here
This is one of the many times I wish my english was better - because I'm not sure if it's going to sound the way I want it to.
*sigh*
Short version1 : After yesterday's comical relief we're back to wtf :D
Short version 2: a story is good, when you make your viewers believe what they see, and not when you tell them, what they should see and believe
*sigh*
Okay, let's give it a serious try.
The acting was fantastic. No doubt about that. It almost fooled me (too :D ).
What I loved was the irony behind the two memorials. I'm not sure if it was intentional and if it was I don't know what they wanted to show with it.
The memorial that was set up to be a joke (the McQueen's one) turned out to be the one where Kieron's death and his person was actually and genuinely bemoaned (much to Myra's and Michaela's own surprise I guess... ).
JP on the other hand, showing (hypocritical if you think about it later) disgust at his family's seemingly tastelessness - went to the cemetery (according to traditional widower behaviour) - to end up talking to Kieron on his mobile phone (short interruption: I'm very proud of me, not to have called it Handy :D ) what he could have done at any other place as well.
Did he grieve for Kieron? Was he sorry for losing Kieron, the person? was it about Kieron at all? No - at least, I didn't hear it. What he bemoaned was, that because he wasn't able to break up with Kieron properly before he died, that he couldn't explain the reason for leaving Kieron and as a consequence didn't get Kieron's blessing (because Kieron was such a forgiving person, see) for another relationship - he now is left with guilt. And that's JP's main problem at the moment.
Do I hate this? Yes, at this point of the storyline I hate it.
But I also think, this is honest. I think psychologically this might have been very good. My problem: it's not going to lead anywhere, storywise. Because tptb didn't bother to develop a proper storyline, they went for cheap pseudo-drama evolving around "will there be a SE or not". I don't know what the avarage viewer thinks or if he/she cares - but I think among the JPK/JPC fans (those who care) it's pretty much established that there will be a sunset ending (I'm going to eat my words of course, if there isn't going to be a SE but I doubt it).
So: assuming there will be a SE:
They go for an intelligence-insulting "will they, will they not"-drama -AND belittleing the JPK relationship on the way ("something was missing" blah - one of the things they tell us now but never showed us before they knew Guy Burnett was available to come back -> why not just let JP say "I'm sorry, but I love Craig more", what everyone could understand? - oh no, impossible because it would hint at the SE, we all know is coming - wtf)
It also means that we're not getting much of JP & Craig - because if they're shown too much together, it might give us the impression they might end up together ( oh no - who would have guessed)
To cut a long story short: IMHO this might have worked and even might have been very good if it had taken place about a week ago. If - as a consequence of his saying goodbye to Kieron and after doing some thinking and coming to a conclusion on his own for a change, JP would have realized that Kieron:
- either would have given him up, had he lived, because he was noone to fight a lost battle for long
- or would give his blessing now that he's dead (forgiving person, see above) because all he wanted was JP's happiness
- or even (less convincing, but they don't care much for that on HO lately) that Kieron sort of gave him up (set him free? ) with his 'suicide'.
All this could have led to an actual JP/C storyline. Maybe with JP realising that HE could be "the Kieron" for Craig. Showing that he did some growing up during his relationship with Kieron. Maybe even showing that Craig did some growing up. With proper scenes together, where they actually talk and maybe even get to kiss or stuff. What their fans were yearning for. And to give the viewer a proper reason to believe, that they are different now from what they were a year ago, when JP rightly decided they weren't ready for each other back then. Showing us why a relationship now could work.
But alas... I don't think they will show much of this during the final two episodes. Someone will say that everything is fine and we're supposed to be the stupid sheep and follow it.
I would bet 50 cent (don't think the storyline is worth much more :D ) that someone is simply going to tell JP to not let Craig go like this. And that JP - despite all he said yesterday - will just do like he is told - as usual. No explanation needed. Craig said, he had changed, so that's settled. Fine.
Good HO viewers believe what they are told - not matter what they see.
I tend to believe what I see, not what I'm told
And what I see is, that I'm done with this storyline. Bring on the Niall-evilness please.
I'm sorry for this rant and not being able to say it like I wanted it. *sigh*
I agree
This is a great post, and after seeing the next to last episode, you are spot on with all of your guesses.
I want to give a standing ovation to what you said about John Paul at Kieron's grave. Not only did he say things that were better left for when Kieron was still alive, but he said things that were better left being said to a friend or family member, not as a memorial to the man he loved. Thsi was supposed to be about Kieron not John Paul.
I agree with everything you said
I'm so glad you wrote that post because I think exactly the same way and I would've never been able to explain it, your english is really good (better than mine, that's for sure).
I'm so sad to see John-Paul go but really it's better this way given how they write his storyline anyway, he definitely deserves more. We've heard about the Sunset Ending for months, I can't believe they didn't prepare the plot better.
Anyway I'll see how it goes once Crawl/McDean is gone, and probably wait for the big McQueen drama, but there's a good chance I'll stop watching Hollyoaks pretty soon. Most of the other characters are getting on my nerves anyway (like Franckie, Cindy, Louise, Val, Calvin and even Mandy). I guess if I continue to watch it's gonna be for Kriss, Malychi, Steph, Tom and Niall.
I understand what you guys are saying...
But James was able to carry me through. And maybe because i know that this is probably all we're going to get when it comes to dealing with Kieron, so i forced myself to look at the positives in it.
As i said, the way Myra and Michaela paid tribute started out with the usual tackiness, but was very affecting by the end. And i'll wait and see how they're gonna handle the SE, but like i said, it's going to take a hell of a lot of heavy lifting to make it work.
sorry :-(
well, no need to apologize to us over-critiquees, I would think ;-) *want-some-cookie* ? :D
The actors were always the only *real* reason, the *main* reason for me to watch this whole thing. The ones who made it worth watching, who even managed to lessen any shortcomings in the storylines (in this I mainly look at Jake Hendriks of course ;-) , who simply blew me away, who really made something out of nothing, with acting NOT accordingly to traditional soapy stereotypes *oops* I digress and maybe start to drool ;-) - well, James Sutton at least had some well written storylines - but he also gave them a very special quality, raised them single-handedly far above avarage)
I feel the urge to apologize for being overly critical, I really don't want to come across like that - and I know it's just a soap - and my only apology is that I'm not used to soaps. I didn't know they could be as good, interesting and funny as Hollyoaks is at it's best moments. Actually if Hollyoaks decides to do comedy it's far superior to anything german tv declares as "comedy" not to mention our soaps ( I know you all love Forbidden Love - but actually the lines those poor [ and very able] actors get are just that: poor)
*sigh* I just feel so let down by this absolute nothing of a long awaited and cheered for and propagandized storyline they chose to give James Sutton & Guy Burnett as an exit :-(((
Well, I like it.
I don't really like the term "sunset ending" though. Seems like it brings with it preconceived notions of a big happy, hollywood ending. Hard to have that amongst all that's gone on and I don't expect that to happen quite as some people anticipate (or dread).
All I want and expect is a fitting departure for the character of John Paul and the actor who plays him. So far, I'm happy. They've given James Sutton some great scenes to show off his talent. John Paul's being put through the drama ringer as a major soap character should.No quiet blink-and-you'll-miss-it departure for JP.
By the by, I also really liked the goodbyes from Michaela and Myra. It was about time that Keiron was properly mourned (on air) by someone other than JP.
And I don't think that they had to tell us that something was missing with JP and Kieron. I always felt it. They were sweet and happy together mostly. A nice match for the short term, but I never had the feeling that they were meant to be. They never invested me in their story or relationship. I think John Paul needs someone with a little more bite. He said it himself, "you're so nice and understanding... it drives me mad." This is a feeling I can completely relate to. Does that make me a bad person? >_<
Now... I can't say that I ever loved the character of Craig. When he's in a good mood, he's a bit of a cheeseball. When he's not, he could be broody and mean. But I still loved and love seeing the two of them together in any capacity, in any scene. They just work. The comaraderie as friends - which was lovely in these scenes despite the melancholy. The arguments. The angsty, imperfect love between two imperfect people. I dig it. ;)
So yeah, count me in the satisfied viewer column.
For those who didn't feel something was missing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWzwmqFy1Vc&feature=related
For me, that conversation between JP and Hannah just sums up everything perfectly....
Um didn't the conversation with Hannah happen early on?
"TRUE LOVE"
At the point when JP spoke to Hannah, he and Kieron had kissed once and then slept together the same night he was talking to Hannah and JP had already once decided that he didn't want ANOTHER closeted complicated relationship. That was also a key point to his discussion with Hannah.
I might add, that they slept together because JP was feeling jealous and hurt and having a fit about Kieron not paying any attention to him and accused Kieron of having moved on to Kris.
JP was still getting to know how he felt about Kieron and this was the first time he felt something for someone who wasn't Craig.
This was only his second time falling in love.
They weren't even a couple yet.
Also, no love is every going to be like your first love. Period. That's just common sense.
Not to mention the fact that JP's first love was with his best friend, and it was completely caught up in his coming out process and was all tortued and frustrated and unresolved.
Of course he's not going to feel for Kieron what he did for Craig.
He's not going to feel for ANYONE what he felt for Craig.
That's something Spike understoood better then anyone (Spike being my ideal boyfriend for JP but sigh, ....)
I think part of the reason for Craig's return was that until JP resolved (one way or the other) what happened with Craig, there was always going to be an issue with him fully committing to somebody else.
It's not like you only get to have ONE GREAT LOVE people. But each love is very different and there's no point in comparing them. JP could have been madly in love with Craig and still falling heavily for Kieron. The heart's capicity knows no bounds.
JP may be too young to realize how obvious that is, but folks with more experience (the audience perhaps) surely are not.
JP's LAST WORDS TO KIERON
As for JP's words at Kieron's grave. I think we're forgetting that JP belived Kieron killed himself BECAUSE of him. We know that Kieron didn't but JP has not idea. He really believes that his behavior was responsible for Kieron's death.
If i thought someone who loved live as much as Kieron had killed themselves because of something I'd done, yes, I think my mourning their loss would be completely and inextricably linked to whatever guilt I felt at having hurt them so much that they'd rather not live.
Keep it in context
True Love?
I think most people who comment here see JP loving Keiron more than Craig or Craig more than Kieron.
Fair enough if thats their view. But what I see is that JP loves them both. It is possible ( I've lived it). But its who he chose- he made a commitment to be with Kieron because he loved him and he chose to put with Craigs drama last year because he loved him. Kieron is gone and JP is eaten up by (misplaced ) guilt but as the grave scene shows, he did love Kieron and I'm glad this was made clear by the writers.
But, and big But, it also made glaringly clear that he also loves Craig. It is undeniable. This love however doesn't detract from what he shared with Kieron.
I think HO have got it spot on with this storyline. Its heading towards what JP chooses as his future- trying to make it work second time around with Craig or living with his guilt in Hollyoaks village for a long time. Craig haters are galore on After Elton :) ( thank Xenu they're in the minority).
I still wish there was more Guy Burnet screen time because that man melts my computer screen every time he's on. So damn sexy.
Who said this?
There's not a reply on here that says that John Paul loves Kieron more than he loves Craig. In fact, the only people who are trying to measure love are people who want to see JOhn Paul paired with Craig, and don't care how it's done. I would think if you really liked this couple, you would want the emphasis to be on them. You would not want to have John Paul in such a fragile state of mind, so that his motives could be questioned. You would want his decision to go off with Craig to be about his feelings for Craig, and not because he is feeling lost and confused because of his grief and guilt.
Instead of trying to measure love, why don't you address the issues with the problems in how this story was developed, which there have been many complaints about. The pacing, timing of Kieron's death, lack of John Paul and Craig screentime, and the lack of movement or change in John Paul and Craig's relationships since last year. And least I forget, the unexplained change in character behaviors in order to fit the storyline.
Quote:It's re-writing
There doesn't have a to be a big massive clue that's right in your face. John Paul was putting on a big happy smily face during most of his relationship with Kieron because he thought he was totally in love. Which maybe he was, but still, like he says there was something missing. He realises that now, not before. And therefore we may not have realised it as viewers at the time either. However, it was infered before even Craig came back on the scene, what with John Paul's hesitations about getting married. He was starting to realise it then, and then it was confirmed when Craig returned. It makes perfect sense.
It needs to make sense