Wow...you really have a chip on your shoulder don't you

"If I didn't make gay men aware of their self-hating ways"

How patronising can you get? Who do you think you are, to suggest that all gay men need you to enlighten us about how "selfhating" we apparantly are?

I had a long post/rant planned, but to be honest I can't be bothered to waste my time on someone who obviously has so many issues.

This is not the first time that you throw around the label of self self-hatred without using any valid examples to support your opinion. You start off on the right path on this one, yet never find proof to support what you say. The part that is a little scary is that you seem to believe that your hit and run "truths" have in any contributed to open anyone's eyes for the better.

I don't think that many would argue with you that being an out gay male actor/singer/model/ celebrity makes it less likely that he’ll land on any list ranking sexiest men. Instead of going sweeping for a baseless psychological conclusion about gay men hating themselves, have you considered that we live in a hetero-centric world where most of what we see in popular entertainment excludes gay representation, especially when it comes to playing a sexy character. Most gay performers are closeted, especially those who are conventionally handsome as there is a valid perception that decision makers won’t cast gay men as sexy leads that generate the type of publicity that gets men on these lists. It's stupid, but it's the suits who make those decisions for us. 

Can any human being who reads a list highlighting who gay men in the UK find sexy be surprised that it is deminated by men who are believed to be straight? The same would be the case in almost any country on earth, especially ours is England at least allows a for a little sexual ambiguity. It’s not about self-hatred, it’s about exposure. Gay men simply like men. Repeat that. It just happens that most of the men that we are exposed to have always been straight or presented themseves as such. If there is one thing that this site, for all its imperfections, does right is to bring attention to gay entertainers/characters in the media thus providing a broader exposure to an industry that tries its best to ignore gay men, destroy gay sexuality, or even for an out gay man participate in the portrayal of sexy straight characters. Nuke anyone?

There are a couple of questions that you may want to ask yourself when making sweeping statements about gay self-hatred. Do you think that one's gay sexual orientation automatically leads to self-hatred? If so, does it also make us yearn to be straight or to seduce what comes across as straight? Does that include or exclude you? If it does not include you, right off that top of your head, what would your sexiest men list look like, and how likely is it that the gay men on that list would be well known to the population as a whole? Are there truly enough mainstream gay men in entertainment to even put forth a real list? I argue that not yet but we can help ourselves and them get there.

Maybe because of the exposure that they receive on AE, many more of us find Patrick Neil Harris or T.R. Knight sexier than we would have before. I could not have picked Cheyenne Jackson out of a line up before coming on this site. Now I can’t stop thinking about him. Did you have anything to do with that or was it the AE staff and its active members?

Using porn is as a barometer is inappropriate as it does not enjoy the same broad exposure no matter how popular any title/performer is within this very valid sub-group of entertainment. While I think that out gay porn star Dean Phoenix is among the hottest men in this planet (and on so many levels), the vast majority of people, including porn watching gay men, may not even know who he is as their consumption comes via ways that don’t allow for easy identification. Others are not really into porn period and even younger ones maybe not even have the legal right to watch pornography.

My favorite scenes with Phoenix have involved loving male on male portrayals that show he and his scene partner being totally into each other in a bed, and not some straight-male worshipping scenario. But even those are acceptable as porn arousal for men is partly based on novelty, role playing, and bringing something new to the screen. Of course, this could lead to a discussion of the many reasons watching porn too often may not be a good thing, especially if you find yourself being attracted to degrading scenarios or others which have gay men on their knees every time any straight man appears. There is nothing wrong with us getting some adrenalin going regarding a UPS man delivery fantasy, but I am 100% sure that it does not indicate that if you have one of those, it makes you self hating.

I predict that the day that an out gay hunk like Cheyenne Jackson gets cast as a the lead in one of the 20 pretty people shows that populate television, or maybe in a summer blockbuster, he may start making many lists as more and more people will know who he is. You say who we find attractive matters, and I agree that it matters but only in that I believe that it’s based on broad visibility, not shame. There are way too many valid reasons why we carry shame on our shoulders, but to enjoying the male form (irrespective of its sexual orientation) is nothing to be ashamed of, as we probably spent much of our youth feeling shame for what you are suggesting is a manifestation of self-hatred. We don't look beyond sexy gay men to worship straight men.

I think that until we have an even broader menu to pick from, and we are already starting to make some progress, it’s actually therapeutic to own the love of the male form as part of what makes us gay. I draw the line at known homophobes, but even I won’t look back in shame that I once thought that Mel Gibson was the personification of hot in movies like Mad Max or The Year of Living Dangerously.

If you don’t think that being gay automatically makes you full of self-hatred, you are free to use the forum to introduce images of sexy out gay men who you think are hot. As long as the photos are not nudes, I am under the impression that you’d be supported by the editorial staff and fellow members. Heck I am going to find a picture of Dean Phoenix to put on here myself.

Professional Disclosure: While I’ve written for this site on a professional basis more than once, and may so again in the future, I hope that no one thinks that I am rubberstamping everything about this site as I call them like I see them. My informal contribution is always my own as can be seen by anyone who read my comments on the Oscars and Brokeback. I'll call anyone, including the editorial staff, on comments that I don't think carry much weight. Also, some of the gay media coverage that interests me and/or that I cover as a professional writer may never see the light of day here at AE for reasons that I sometimes disagree with.

I also write some really beyond low brow stuff that is certainly not for this site, but it’s up to us to contribute here, and actively participate in as many gay communities that we feel empower us and don’t contribute to our self-hatred. I'll keep people abreast of things that interest me.

Don't except to be spoon-fed self-respect. And if you have the time and/or are serious about doing something about the horrible weight of self-hatred that many of us carry around, do something constructive about it as I fail to see your calling AE-members names has had any contribution to their self-esteem or had any impact on the "AfterElton 100" list that you refer to. 

http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=518130334

Yes, gay men in Great Britain are especially ugly.  *roll eyes*  But that still doesn't explain why Ryan Phillippe, Hayden Christensen, Channing Tatum, and James Marsden are on the list.  They are not British.

jakob, before I commented on the AfterElton100 there were 3 or 4 gay people on anyone's list out of 15 or 16 lists (150-160 possible names).  After I left my comment about the absence of gay men things got a little better.

Some of the guys on the list are nobodies even in England.  So this business about popularity is bull.  Hot is hot, right?  Unless your gay then you need to be super popular for anyone to even look at you.  There is a strong bias against gay men not only from straight people but also gay people.  franQ a week ago told of his story as an out gay actor on Broadway.  He auditioned for every gay role and was turned down for almost every role even though the casting directors were gay.  Straight male actors received the gay parts.  Ari Gold, a gay singer, interviewed with a gay record label and was told they weren't looking for actual gay singers.  David Geffen owned one of the largest record companies and didn't sign a single new gay artist.  Three studies this year have shown that while gay Americans are significantly more likely to earn a college degree than straight people they also earn significantly less than straight people and are more likely to not to own a home and live in poverty.  I can go on and on but it doesn't matter to you because you want to deny that discrimination against gay people exists and is pervasive. 

The makers of the Implicit Association Test say that 38% of gay Americans are self-hating.  That's 2 out of every 5 gay people.  Since Great Britain and much of the world looks to America all that implicit prejudice is passed on. 

The porn industry is a very good example because it's all about desire.  The labeling and marketing tilts strongly one way.  

The poll takers forgot the British ogres Christian Coulson, Alistair Appleton, and Kristian Digby on their list.

Now if you can excuse me I have to crawl up the bell tower and ring the bell.

John Borrowman is American, he just had to go to the UK to get the recognition tthat he deserved.

Dennis