Last night Torchwood: Children of Earth (Day Five) aired on BBC America. Check out the Day Five Facebook recap after the break but be warned, there are spoilers! As always, please make sure the subject lines of your comments don't spoil plot twists for other readers who might not have watched yet.
I'm writing Gareth to let him know how much I'm missing him (and I might go to one of his recent conventions cuz he's in so many it seems like it would be a shame to miss seeing him in person).
I am just about sure that I won't be back for season 4. They made Jack into a really unlikeable character (didn't even hug or say "I love you" to his grandson before or as he was dying!!!) and a single soulless gay character is not why I continued to watch this show!
I feel hurt and saddened, and watching Jack shag and/or hurt other people in a future possible S4 will NOT make up for the loss of Ianto. I watch TV to feel good, not to be hurt and angered, like the way I feel now! Shame on everyone responsible for letting Ianto die (writers, producers, EVERYONE directly responsible who had THE POWER to turn it around, but didn't). I don't know why they would do this to their fans, and the emptiness that I now feel can't be filled by anybody else but Ianto. I've posted nearly 10 different comments over the course of CoE, expressing what I liked and didn't like, and now I must try to save Ianto, and yet at the same time try to accept that this just might very well be the end of a show I've put so much emotion into. I don't want to turn away from Jack and Gwen and PC Andy and Rhys and that silly Time Rift, but they've left me no choice.
***In closing, I love you Ianto and Gareth. I'll be spending the rest of the year trying to bring you back.***
I must say the entire recaps for all of CoE has been fantastic- it brings back the memories from viewing the series.
As for season 4- it'll be intersting if it does go ahead. It would be nice if season 4 took place before children of The Eart so that way we could have more Janto.
I had no idea Torchwood might not be coming back, but now I sincerely hope
that was the end of Torchwood.I have
been an avid fan of the show since the beginning and felt completely betrayed
by "Children of the earth."
There is a big difference between being honest to a story and merely
exploiting character's deaths and horrible situations for shock value. If
russell T. Davies wanted to write a morbid story, then he should have used the
right medium to do so, and have written it as a novel (like Mc Carty's
"The Road") I especially hate that he is getting on his high horse
saying it was all for "being true to the story" but in fact, i
think it was just to stroke his morbidly creative ego.
It's a damn sci fi show; reality would be a paradox. if he
wanted to be realistic--In a Sci Fi Show--then all of Jack's team would have
died on the first episode and torchwood should have only had one major
character (Captain Jack) accompanied by expendible minor characters. I am
not angry at Ianto, tosh, and owen dying, but I simply feel that this is not
what I signed up when I became a fan of Torchwood two years ago.
Yes, reality is hard, children die, are sold, raped, and used (sometimes by
their own parents), people we love die--but I don't want to see it on tv,
especially not a sci fi show (I have my life and local TV news for that).
I hope Russell T. Davies is happy with "Reality." Because reality
is that when you kill off characters that made the show successful, there is no
reason to keep watching the show. and that applies to ALL shows...I know I
won't be watching a 4th season. captain Jack and Gwen are kinda annoying and
were balanced by tosh and Ianto (I didnt care much for owen), without them, I
simply have no reason to watch the show anymore. Plus, if I start liking
the new characters, i'll be afraid they will be killed off next time Russell
wants another ratings boost.
I will definitely keep an eye out for Naoko Mori and Gareth
David-Lloyd because i really like their work. Perhaps there were
internal problems and that's why they were killed off, but regardless, I still
believe THEY, not Ianto and Tosh, were essential parts to torchwood's
success.
Don't get me wrong. I thought "Children of the Earth" was
great, and would have made a great movie, and makes a good end for the entire
series. but I simply feel that in being honest to "Children of the
Earth," Russell sacrificed "Torchwood" and crossed a line that
shouldn't have been crossed.
If Mr. Russell T. Davies wanted to stroke his ego by making Torchwood
fans shriek and cry with emotion...he succeeded and I hope he feels good.
But "Exit Wounds" and "Children of the Earth" by themselves
are nothing more than a cheap, sentimentalistic, and contrived story that
brought an undeserving end to much beloved characters.
... There is a big difference between being honest to a story and merely exploiting character's deaths and horrible situations for shock value. ... just to stroke his morbidly creative ego.
... if he wanted to be realistic ... then all of Jack's team would have died on the first episode ...I simply feel that this is not what I signed up when I became a fan of Torchwood two years ago.
... reality is that when you kill off characters that made the show successful, there is no reason to keep watching the show. ... if I start liking the new characters, i'll be afraid they will be killed off next time Russell wants another ratings boost.
If Mr. Russell T. Davies wanted to stroke his ego by making Torchwood fans shriek and cry with emotion...he succeeded... a story that brought an undeserving end to much beloved characters.
The ironic thing is, if Ianto didn't die, you would have all been singing the praises of the series. 'Tis a shame that you let your grief and anger blind you to how good it was.
...have been singing its praises. No more than I sang the praises of "Terms of Endearment". COE was the same kind of cheap tearjerker "entertainment", pulling cliched emotional strings while missing great honking plot holes.
I found Day Five, the destruction of Jack and his character, MUCH more disturbing than Ianto's death.
No Season 4 for me. I've got much more realistic shows to watch...shows which actually acknowledge that there is more to "realism" than despair.
Way to TORCH THE FRANCHISE AND RUN, Davies. You smug prick.
You know your right, name calling is unneccessary. We don't need to do that to tell Russell T. Davies that we are mad with him.
All we need to do is stop watching anything that he is involved in. And bring as many other people along with us as possible.
The fact that he's a gay man and doesn't understand why the whole Ianto thing is so infuriating. Heck the fact that there are people on this site who still don't seem to understand why it hurt so many gay fans so much. It just plain boggles my mind. I would have thought that the whole Willow/Tara thing would have made it clear to those in the T.V. buisness that they needed to be a bit more careful about this kind of thing.
But lets make its clear, Russell T. Davies is well within his rights to do whatever he wants with his show and his characters. I may not like it, but its his right as a writer/producer. Just as its well within my rights as a consumer to not buy any Torchwood DVD's or other merchandise.
They killed Suzie, Tosh and Owen so what made you think Ianto was safe? Because he's gay. Hell, they killed that little kid horrificly. I expected Gwen to die too and she most likely will at some point since, as the show has stated multiple times, most Torchwood members die young. Jack is really the only "safe" character on the show. And just because some of us aren't furious over Ianto being killed doesn't mean that we don't get that others are. I just don't believe that homophobia is at the root of it. Sorry, I don't.
RTD and most tv producers are damned if they do and damned if they don't as far as gay characters go. Nobody is ever really happy with any portrayal. Either the character is too good/bad, their is not enough intimacy, or the gays shouldn't die, etc. I was more pissed at how RTD handled the Jack character throughout the miniseries more than I was about Ianto dying. Ianto could have lived and Jack still would have sacrificed his grandson and thus the character still would have been permanently ruined for me whether he and Ianto got to be happy or not.
Gwen is alive for now but she might not stay that way given the turnaround rate at Torchwood. I get people love Ianto or hate Gwen and didn't want him to die. I didn't want him to either but I don't think Gwen should have taken his place in order for things to be even or make sense. There were many things that didn't make sense in the miniseries. There were major plot holes, not much mouring for Tosh and Owen and Jack's questionable decision making that lead to the deaths of many. Ianto's death was senseless but so was Clem's and Frobisher's and Jack's grandson. All the deaths pissed me off but I've watched enough tv shows where main characters die that I've becme used to it. And it happens constantly on SciFi shows. Nobody is safe but the main lead most of the time. It's an unpopular opinion, but whatever, I'm just not as outraged by Ianto's death to the point where I wouldn't watch Torchwood again. I wouldn't watch Torchwood again because of how they ruined Jack and ultimately their own show's premise.
The entire miniseries seemed built around getting Jack to the point where his actions were so irredeemable that he no longer wanted live on Earth. In order for that to happen, he had to loose his lover, his family, and live with the fact that he had ruined the lives of twelve children as well as causing the deaths of all the other people in Thames House. I don't think a Gwen death would have had the same impact on him as everyone elses. I think the show wanted to end on a positive note by having pregnant Gwen walk off with Rhys because children were the heart of the minseries. The show was built around Jack and ultimately, I think, every other character will be expendable in the end. All that said, I fully expect a series 4 if not some tv movies like they do with Doctor Who.
And Suzie was the McGuffin to get Gwen into Torchwood. She was killed in the pilot, and there was no audience investment in the character aside from that of a guest star. RTD still killed off all the queers in two successive episodes... and Gwen (and Rhys and the baby - the heteronormative family) are still alive and unscathed.
Did I ever say that? RTD and the Torchwood staff aren't homophobic, but just because your not homophobic doesn't mean you can't accidently put an image or idea that is denigrating to homosexuals on the screen. And that's just what happened, and honestly that's incredibly dissapointing.
After deep reflection thats the real problem, I am incredibly dissapointed. That the cheap cliche was used as a crutch to get where RTD needed the story to go. And that he didn't and still doesn't care that the cliche was hurtful.
Technically as a writer and producer he hasn't done anything wrong, after all he's well within his creative rights to tell any story he wants as long as the BBC allows him to.
Just as I am perfectly in my rights as a consumer, to not like the story he is currently telling. Just as I am well within my rights to not purchase any DVD's or merchandise to help support the story that he told.
There is a distinct difference between a bigotry and homophibic actions. Once can be gay and generally quite gay positive, yet still end up doing homophobic things. Is RTD a bigot? Of course not! But was some of the writing intrinsically homophobic? Undoubtedly, yes.
Torchwood isn't Russell T Davies' show. It's the BBC's show. If the BBC decided to turn Torchwood into an animated Saturday morning show for kids, or a late-night examination of the graphic sexual behaviour of aliens or a wildlife documentary on the xenobiology of Cardiff, they could do so.
He's a 'smug prick' because he was doing his own thing on a programme that I pay for directly through my licence fee. I pay £137 per year for my TV licence - which funds the BBC and pays for Torchwood. Without me and every other licence-fee payer in the UK, Torchwood wouldn't exist. My licence fee is up to date, so I've earned the right to call him a smug prick.
I know I'm not the person who called him a smug prick in the first place, but as I've spent a couple of decades paying my licence fee without commenitng one way or another on the BBC. Therefore, if anyone wants to insult the lad Davies but doesn't live in the UK, please feel free to use my fully paid up 'account of accountability' (via the licence fee) to make your point.
Davies can be as dismissive as he likes of fans, but he works for the BBC, so every Brit here pays his wages.
Considering that he's killed one memebr of every (significant) gay couple he's ever put together (with a single exception), I'd guess that it wouldn't be the first complaint. I guess some people never learn - or just choose to pursue personal agendas I don;t care for.
I wasn't as pissed off by Ianto's death as I was about Jack sacrificing his own grandson and relationship with his daughter in the finale. That image of that little kid convulsing, ears and nose bleeding while his mother screamed in horror, is forever burned in my brain in regards to this show. He was so happy to see his "Uncle Jack" then terrified when they came and grabbed him and "threw him on the grenade" so to speak. I felt so sad for Alice trusting in Jack to save the world only to have him make the decision to kill her child. She is never going to let that shit go now. I just can't watch another season of Jack Harkness being, well, Jack Harkness and I wouldn't be surprised if his daugther came after him in the near future.
I'm a huge BSG fan so I'm used to doom and gloom but not from Torchwood. It was still a good series overall but damn if it didn't ruin Jack forever for me.
I've read that Russell T Davies [RTD] has a full line up for Torchwood Series 4, assuming ratings for series 3 are good.
I smell a rat who blew a hole into the ship he wanted to get off.
I cannot for the life of me see how a series 4 is even possible at this point.
Jack is too damaged, if he came back if he were his old flirty self it would be a slap against Ianto and Jack's Grandson Steven. If he were to come back still messed up I am not sure fans would accept Jack back after seeing what he did in Series 3.
Gwen though finally coming into her own is no where ready to lead Torchwood.
RTD has whacked too many central characters in too short a time. Owen, Toshiko, Ianto and while not physically dead Jack might as well be dead too.
Torchwood would have to have a whole new cast; the most likely candidates would be: Agent Johnson, Lois Habiba, Captian John and probably Gwen for some remenant of continuity. But with such a new cast I don't think it would be the same at all.
So having said all that I am of the opinion, and its only my opinion, that RTD killed Torchwood on purpose. Which is sad because the series was unlike any SCI-FI series ever done. So, I now say RTD has made Torchwood jump the shark and the series is now finished.
R.I.P. Torchwood -- Taken Long Before Your Time -- You will be missed.
Maybe they can straighten out the casting. I thought Ianto and Owen looked too much alike. I would have put PC Andy in one of the roles, as he is blond and funny and waaaaay cute. Everyone in The Hub has dark hair, even Toshiko. Not enough sunlight, I guess.
I'm just at the point of stopping crying from Iantop's death, and a quick trip to eBay for a signed pic makes me feel better. Got PC Andy coming; got Jack and James. Now a cup of coffee, please, Ianto.... Ooops, here come the tears again, and I'm 68!
Just wanted to say thanks for these recaps. They have been consistently brilliant. Wonderfully creative and uniformly excellent. Thank you StuntDouble.
Yeah, he's responsible for Queer As Folk UK, including the "second series." I think his idea of ending a show is making the last couple of episodes so sloppy, most fans lose any interest in seeing it continue.
It's a well known fact that RTD never wanted to do a second series of QAF. He was strong armed into doing it so the finished product (which I enjoyed) reflected his frustrations. There was never going to be a series three of QAF. So your claim that he made those episodes so sloppy is not true.
Reading most of these comments make me think that most of the people who are pissed off didn't watch TW until a GAY COUPLE (which is still questionable... Jack is NOT GAY... Ianto may or may not have been GAY) came into play. If the people posting here actually had been watching from the beginning, you'd know this.
I was around at Channel 4 when the second series of Queer As Folk was commissioned. I don't think there was any 'strong-arming' of RTD going on. It was an unexpected critical success. He was offered money and he took it. Channel 4 had very little ability to strong-arm anyone. All the channel had back then was money. Until Queer as Folk, RTD was a jobbing writer and had he not done a second series, he'd have disappeared back into writer-anonymity.
I don't mind you expressing passion for your point of view. But please don't re-write history to support your argument.
I was really confused at gwen at the end of the episode. is she somehow.....in love with jack? i mean, i am so lost again on the 'gwack' issue. "come back for me"
yeah, hi...there is rhys and his child inside of you.
it was weird. maybe i misunderstood.
ya'll need to do facebook recaps for other shows. i might have to beg for a brothers and sisters facebook recap when it comes back on
RTD just needs to kill Rhys in s4, so he finally have his dream-Gwack. Jack can be magically healed by spending 5 min. in the DW finale, then come back to Gwen and tell her he loves her.
I thought it was a disservice to Gwen, to put her back where she was in ep9 of S2
I can forgive Ianto. People have to die, even if it's in kind of stupid ways. But this last episode was seriously sucktastic. Drugs? Screaming into space?
Here is my sad realization for today. With everything that has happened to Jack and Ianto during Children of Earth and everything that the producers and writers have been saying since the original broadcast in the UK to justify this creative trainwreck, I have come to a sad realization. Torchwood is now the British equivalent of 'Heroes.'
The producers (Russell T. Davies and Julie Gardner) have stated that killing off another major character was necessary to show the gravity of the situation and that in Torchwood 'people die young.' Unless you happen to be a certain young Welsh woman or an immortal time traveler that is. If there is any seriousness behind that statement it means that in any future installments the show will be filled with a host of under-developed characters with whom the viewer will never become emotionally invested.At any point that the creative team of the series is hard pressed to generate drama, the bodies will begin to drop, again with two notable exceptions.
The viewers of the program will instead be watching in the hopes of seeing big things go "boom" and spend most of their viewing time tearing apart the ridiculously contrived and thoughtlessly produced plots. All because the producers and writers thought that it was 'cool' and 'real' to make viewers stop caring about the characters, not realizing that that was really the one thing that they had going for them.
Of course the saddest truth of all in all of this is that Torchwood could survive like this. It would be appealing to the lowest common denominator and that would keep it going, unless the producers began trying out new boneheaded moves that drove even the most passive of viewers away. If it happens I will be hard pressed to contain my laughter.
Personally, I think that from here on out, I will occasionally watch episodes from the first and second seasons and try hard not to think of how badly this series was managed. It will be a while though, since i can't hear or see anything about Torchwood without feeling profound disappointment.
i'm not big on sci-fi and usually never understand all the science-y talk that goes on in these shows...
with that said, jack's grandson at the end was doing that high pitched noise, yet he gets a bloody nose and all that...but how come the other kids didn't? was his grandson hooked up? if i recall, he was simply just standing there.
I also wonder how he even was able to do the high pitched noise without being controlled by the 456. it was just a recording of the noise they made.
seeing the last episode for the second time and then the afterthought show, i'm more sure of a couple of things:
1. BBC wanted to put an end to Torchwood.
2. Davies also wanted to put an end to Torchwood.
3. The door may still be open, but no one should count on it, even with Davies saying i'll always answer a call.
i will agree that in total this 5-part series was the best of all, but when they killed Ianto, they also killed the show. i think it was the purpose of his dying.
If you had two choices: Sacrifice one person or in not doing so, sacrifice about 300,000,000 people. Which would it be? Seriously. 1 or 300,000,000, it really isn't difficult. I would be more willing to save more than less, no matter how close I am to them. Myself and family/friends would suffer and grieve. Compare that to the entire world.
I know I sound cold but out of the two it is the most logical decision.
It may be a cultural difference but I lived in Britain for awhile and I noticed that the heros were often dark and complicated and in some cases even unlikeable. I was as disappointed as anyone by the loss of Ianto, not the least because the character was funny and interesting as performed by Gareth. I was surprised that this series also brought me around on Gwen, and I suspect what I thought was bad acting was bad writing. The climactic bits were just bad, and in some ways demonstrated that while Barrowman is charismatic, he's not a great actor. You didn't get the feeling that he really cared about Ianto (hence not sure why the commentary said he was devastated) and he didn't seem to care about his grandson. Which left the ending without emotional resonance. It seemed rushed, and gratuitous. The woman who played his daughter was such a superior actror to him, that she showed his limitations. I also found the commentary bordering on the satirical. Talk about having to sing for your supper, the actors express relief that they still have jobs, and must sing the praises of their boss, while admitting nervously that they could be gone like Gareth. You couldn't pay me enough to have so act my "real life" lines just to stroke my boss's ego in addition to playing my character.
You didn't get the feeling that he really cared about Ianto (hence not
sure why the commentary said he was devastated) and he didn't seem to
care about his grandson.
I think that was definitely problems with the writing. RTD expects us to buy that Ianto dies so Jack is "devastated" by Day 5, yet he didn't bother to include any scene to show them in any way emotionally close, quite the opposite.
It's just one more of the miriad of inconsistencies and nonsenses that plagued CoE, but the one that pains me the most :(
Those who thought CoE was good, we'll surely enjoy Season 4. Good for them!
Thanks to the TV gods that Mad Men is coming back soon :)
Probably the latter. He'll be back to his old self again and will have learned nothing. You would think that having lived as long as he has and lost as many people as he has that he would be more evolved than he actually is. Or maybe JB is not very good at conveying that.
Nah... they'll neuter Jack, bring on a cast of heterosexuals, and skimp on the sexy bits (and all but eliminate the gay ones). This will be, after all, BBC1.
... since you've already made it clear that since you've been personally shit upon and that you'll never ever watch anything RTD has anything to do with.
And, as always, a positive, reasoned, considered response. NOT. *rolls eyes* Why bother posting if that's all you have to say? Ever the dogmatic RTD cheerleader, juvenile and simplistic is clearly not working for you; neither is trying to misrepresent someone else.
Frankly, I don't consider myself personally directly affected by RTD's recent errors at all (contrary to your comment). Of course, that doesn't mean elements of CoE weren't blatantly homophobic. I may or may not ever watch future Torchwood (I think it unlikely, because after CoE, that's not my idea of entertainment), but as far as other RTD work? I've said nothing about that. You are corrected.
Talk about emotional, but I still refuse to accept his fate
I'm writing Gareth to let him know how much I'm missing him (and I might go to one of his recent conventions cuz he's in so many it seems like it would be a shame to miss seeing him in person).
I am just about sure that I won't be back for season 4. They made Jack into a really unlikeable character (didn't even hug or say "I love you" to his grandson before or as he was dying!!!) and a single soulless gay character is not why I continued to watch this show!
I feel hurt and saddened, and watching Jack shag and/or hurt other people in a future possible S4 will NOT make up for the loss of Ianto. I watch TV to feel good, not to be hurt and angered, like the way I feel now! Shame on everyone responsible for letting Ianto die (writers, producers, EVERYONE directly responsible who had THE POWER to turn it around, but didn't). I don't know why they would do this to their fans, and the emptiness that I now feel can't be filled by anybody else but Ianto. I've posted nearly 10 different comments over the course of CoE, expressing what I liked and didn't like, and now I must try to save Ianto, and yet at the same time try to accept that this just might very well be the end of a show I've put so much emotion into. I don't want to turn away from Jack and Gwen and PC Andy and Rhys and that silly Time Rift, but they've left me no choice.
***In closing, I love you Ianto and Gareth. I'll be spending the rest of the year trying to bring you back.***
Kitty
http://www.saveiantojones.com/
Excellent Recap
I must say the entire recaps for all of CoE has been fantastic- it brings back the memories from viewing the series.
As for season 4- it'll be intersting if it does go ahead. It would be nice if season 4 took place before children of The Eart so that way we could have more Janto.
Sigh- i guess we can dream.
No More Torchwood For Me
I had no idea Torchwood might not be coming back, but now I sincerely hope that was the end of Torchwood. I have been an avid fan of the show since the beginning and felt completely betrayed by "Children of the earth."
There is a big difference between being honest to a story and merely exploiting character's deaths and horrible situations for shock value. If russell T. Davies wanted to write a morbid story, then he should have used the right medium to do so, and have written it as a novel (like Mc Carty's "The Road") I especially hate that he is getting on his high horse saying it was all for "being true to the story" but in fact, i think it was just to stroke his morbidly creative ego.
It's a damn sci fi show; reality would be a paradox. if he wanted to be realistic--In a Sci Fi Show--then all of Jack's team would have died on the first episode and torchwood should have only had one major character (Captain Jack) accompanied by expendible minor characters. I am not angry at Ianto, tosh, and owen dying, but I simply feel that this is not what I signed up when I became a fan of Torchwood two years ago.
Yes, reality is hard, children die, are sold, raped, and used (sometimes by their own parents), people we love die--but I don't want to see it on tv, especially not a sci fi show (I have my life and local TV news for that).
I hope Russell T. Davies is happy with "Reality." Because reality is that when you kill off characters that made the show successful, there is no reason to keep watching the show. and that applies to ALL shows...I know I won't be watching a 4th season. captain Jack and Gwen are kinda annoying and were balanced by tosh and Ianto (I didnt care much for owen), without them, I simply have no reason to watch the show anymore. Plus, if I start liking the new characters, i'll be afraid they will be killed off next time Russell wants another ratings boost.
I will definitely keep an eye out for Naoko Mori and Gareth David-Lloyd because i really like their work. Perhaps there were internal problems and that's why they were killed off, but regardless, I still believe THEY, not Ianto and Tosh, were essential parts to torchwood's success.
Don't get me wrong. I thought "Children of the Earth" was great, and would have made a great movie, and makes a good end for the entire series. but I simply feel that in being honest to "Children of the Earth," Russell sacrificed "Torchwood" and crossed a line that shouldn't have been crossed.
If Mr. Russell T. Davies wanted to stroke his ego by making Torchwood fans shriek and cry with emotion...he succeeded and I hope he feels good. But "Exit Wounds" and "Children of the Earth" by themselves are nothing more than a cheap, sentimentalistic, and contrived story that brought an undeserving end to much beloved characters.
So you think...
... "Children of the Earth" was great, and would have made a great movie,...
.... "Children of the Earth" [is] nothing more than a cheap, sentimentalistic, and contrived story....
well said
... There is a big difference between being honest to a story and merely exploiting character's deaths and horrible situations for shock value. ... just to stroke his morbidly creative ego.
... if he wanted to be realistic ... then all of Jack's team would have died on the first episode ...I simply feel that this is not what I signed up when I became a fan of Torchwood two years ago.
... reality is that when you kill off characters that made the show successful, there is no reason to keep watching the show. ... if I start liking the new characters, i'll be afraid they will be killed off next time Russell wants another ratings boost.
If Mr. Russell T. Davies wanted to stroke his ego by making Torchwood fans shriek and cry with emotion...he succeeded... a story that brought an undeserving end to much beloved characters.
Well said
The ironic thing is, if
No, I wouldn't
...have been singing its praises. No more than I sang the praises of "Terms of Endearment". COE was the same kind of cheap tearjerker "entertainment", pulling cliched emotional strings while missing great honking plot holes.
I found Day Five, the destruction of Jack and his character, MUCH more disturbing than Ianto's death.
No Season 4 for me. I've got much more realistic shows to watch...shows which actually acknowledge that there is more to "realism" than despair.
Way to TORCH THE FRANCHISE AND RUN, Davies. You smug prick.
Really? You're going to
Really? You're going to call a guy a smug prick for doing what he wanted (whether one finds it stupid or not) on his OWN show? That's pretty sad.
It's his show, and if he wants to continue doing half good episodes and half lame episodes, it doesn't make him a smug prick it makes him consistent.
Shrugs
You know your right, name calling is unneccessary. We don't need to do that to tell Russell T. Davies that we are mad with him.
All we need to do is stop watching anything that he is involved in. And bring as many other people along with us as possible.
The fact that he's a gay man and doesn't understand why the whole Ianto thing is so infuriating. Heck the fact that there are people on this site who still don't seem to understand why it hurt so many gay fans so much. It just plain boggles my mind. I would have thought that the whole Willow/Tara thing would have made it clear to those in the T.V. buisness that they needed to be a bit more careful about this kind of thing.
But lets make its clear, Russell T. Davies is well within his rights to do whatever he wants with his show and his characters. I may not like it, but its his right as a writer/producer. Just as its well within my rights as a consumer to not buy any Torchwood DVD's or other merchandise.
Ianto
They killed Suzie, Tosh and Owen so what made you think Ianto was safe? Because he's gay. Hell, they killed that little kid horrificly. I expected Gwen to die too and she most likely will at some point since, as the show has stated multiple times, most Torchwood members die young. Jack is really the only "safe" character on the show. And just because some of us aren't furious over Ianto being killed doesn't mean that we don't get that others are. I just don't believe that homophobia is at the root of it. Sorry, I don't.
RTD and most tv producers are damned if they do and damned if they don't as far as gay characters go. Nobody is ever really happy with any portrayal. Either the character is too good/bad, their is not enough intimacy, or the gays shouldn't die, etc. I was more pissed at how RTD handled the Jack character throughout the miniseries more than I was about Ianto dying. Ianto could have lived and Jack still would have sacrificed his grandson and thus the character still would have been permanently ruined for me whether he and Ianto got to be happy or not.
Part of the Problem is
For now
Gwen is alive for now but she might not stay that way given the turnaround rate at Torchwood. I get people love Ianto or hate Gwen and didn't want him to die. I didn't want him to either but I don't think Gwen should have taken his place in order for things to be even or make sense. There were many things that didn't make sense in the miniseries. There were major plot holes, not much mouring for Tosh and Owen and Jack's questionable decision making that lead to the deaths of many. Ianto's death was senseless but so was Clem's and Frobisher's and Jack's grandson. All the deaths pissed me off but I've watched enough tv shows where main characters die that I've becme used to it. And it happens constantly on SciFi shows. Nobody is safe but the main lead most of the time. It's an unpopular opinion, but whatever, I'm just not as outraged by Ianto's death to the point where I wouldn't watch Torchwood again. I wouldn't watch Torchwood again because of how they ruined Jack and ultimately their own show's premise.
The entire miniseries seemed built around getting Jack to the point where his actions were so irredeemable that he no longer wanted live on Earth. In order for that to happen, he had to loose his lover, his family, and live with the fact that he had ruined the lives of twelve children as well as causing the deaths of all the other people in Thames House. I don't think a Gwen death would have had the same impact on him as everyone elses. I think the show wanted to end on a positive note by having pregnant Gwen walk off with Rhys because children were the heart of the minseries. The show was built around Jack and ultimately, I think, every other character will be expendable in the end. All that said, I fully expect a series 4 if not some tv movies like they do with Doctor Who.
And Suzie was the McGuffin
Homophobia.
Of course Homophobia isn't the cause.
Did I ever say that? RTD and the Torchwood staff aren't homophobic, but just because your not homophobic doesn't mean you can't accidently put an image or idea that is denigrating to homosexuals on the screen. And that's just what happened, and honestly that's incredibly dissapointing.
After deep reflection thats the real problem, I am incredibly dissapointed. That the cheap cliche was used as a crutch to get where RTD needed the story to go. And that he didn't and still doesn't care that the cliche was hurtful.
Technically as a writer and producer he hasn't done anything wrong, after all he's well within his creative rights to tell any story he wants as long as the BBC allows him to.
Just as I am perfectly in my rights as a consumer, to not like the story he is currently telling. Just as I am well within my rights to not purchase any DVD's or merchandise to help support the story that he told.
There is a distinct
Just being pedantic
Torchwood isn't Russell T Davies' show. It's the BBC's show. If the BBC decided to turn Torchwood into an animated Saturday morning show for kids, or a late-night examination of the graphic sexual behaviour of aliens or a wildlife documentary on the xenobiology of Cardiff, they could do so.
He's a 'smug prick' because he was doing his own thing on a programme that I pay for directly through my licence fee. I pay £137 per year for my TV licence - which funds the BBC and pays for Torchwood. Without me and every other licence-fee payer in the UK, Torchwood wouldn't exist. My licence fee is up to date, so I've earned the right to call him a smug prick.
I know I'm not the person who called him a smug prick in the first place, but as I've spent a couple of decades paying my licence fee without commenitng one way or another on the BBC. Therefore, if anyone wants to insult the lad Davies but doesn't live in the UK, please feel free to use my fully paid up 'account of accountability' (via the licence fee) to make your point.
Davies can be as dismissive as he likes of fans, but he works for the BBC, so every Brit here pays his wages.
I'm going to get tired of saying this...
Some people would, but not everyone. This isn't the first RTD ending people have complained about.
"To make a bad day worse, spend it wishing for the impossible." - Calvin of Calvin and Hobbes
Considering that he's killed
CoE
I wasn't as pissed off by Ianto's death as I was about Jack sacrificing his own grandson and relationship with his daughter in the finale. That image of that little kid convulsing, ears and nose bleeding while his mother screamed in horror, is forever burned in my brain in regards to this show. He was so happy to see his "Uncle Jack" then terrified when they came and grabbed him and "threw him on the grenade" so to speak. I felt so sad for Alice trusting in Jack to save the world only to have him make the decision to kill her child. She is never going to let that shit go now. I just can't watch another season of Jack Harkness being, well, Jack Harkness and I wouldn't be surprised if his daugther came after him in the near future.
I'm a huge BSG fan so I'm used to doom and gloom but not from Torchwood. It was still a good series overall but damn if it didn't ruin Jack forever for me.
Russell T Davies has Jumped the Shark
I've read that Russell T Davies [RTD] has a full line up for Torchwood Series 4, assuming ratings for series 3 are good.
I smell a rat who blew a hole into the ship he wanted to get off.
I cannot for the life of me see how a series 4 is even possible at this point.
Jack is too damaged, if he came back if he were his old flirty self it would be a slap against Ianto and Jack's Grandson Steven. If he were to come back still messed up I am not sure fans would accept Jack back after seeing what he did in Series 3.
Gwen though finally coming into her own is no where ready to lead Torchwood.
RTD has whacked too many central characters in too short a time. Owen, Toshiko, Ianto and while not physically dead Jack might as well be dead too.
Torchwood would have to have a whole new cast; the most likely candidates would be: Agent Johnson, Lois Habiba, Captian John and probably Gwen for some remenant of continuity. But with such a new cast I don't think it would be the same at all.
So having said all that I am of the opinion, and its only my opinion, that RTD killed Torchwood on purpose. Which is sad because the series was unlike any SCI-FI series ever done. So, I now say RTD has made Torchwood jump the shark and the series is now finished.
R.I.P. Torchwood -- Taken Long Before Your Time -- You will be missed.
Adieu and Casting
Maybe they can straighten out the casting. I thought Ianto and Owen looked too much alike. I would have put PC Andy in one of the roles, as he is blond and funny and waaaaay cute. Everyone in The Hub has dark hair, even Toshiko. Not enough sunlight, I guess.
I'm just at the point of stopping crying from Iantop's death, and a quick trip to eBay for a signed pic makes me feel better. Got PC Andy coming; got Jack and James. Now a cup of coffee, please, Ianto.... Ooops, here come the tears again, and I'm 68!
NMC
Aime-moi moins, mais aime-moi longtempsStuntDouble - my hero
That's It!?!?!
Two seasons and a mini-series???
That's all there is to Torchwood? ? ?
Talk about pooping and peeing in the pool; if this were an American show, there would have been Law & Order-type spinoffs galore, fer days!
Off the top of my head, didn't Mr. Davies gut Queer as Folk, too?
The wanker
;-)
Yup!
Get your facts right
It's a well known fact that RTD never wanted to do a second series of QAF. He was strong armed into doing it so the finished product (which I enjoyed) reflected his frustrations. There was never going to be a series three of QAF. So your claim that he made those episodes so sloppy is not true.
Reading most of these comments make me think that most of the people who are pissed off didn't watch TW until a GAY COUPLE (which is still questionable... Jack is NOT GAY... Ianto may or may not have been GAY) came into play. If the people posting here actually had been watching from the beginning, you'd know this.
Humph!
I was around at Channel 4 when the second series of Queer As Folk was commissioned. I don't think there was any 'strong-arming' of RTD going on. It was an unexpected critical success. He was offered money and he took it. Channel 4 had very little ability to strong-arm anyone. All the channel had back then was money. Until Queer as Folk, RTD was a jobbing writer and had he not done a second series, he'd have disappeared back into writer-anonymity.
I don't mind you expressing passion for your point of view. But please don't re-write history to support your argument.
Actually, Mister Jimmy Donohue. . .
. . . Torchwood wasn't available to my cable provider during the first season, only the second. . .
. . . and it was my straight buddy Po-Jay* who introduced me to the show (DW freek that he is, God love him!) with nary a mention of gay people. . .
;-)
* Jason is a wonderful buddy, but kinda accident-prone; "Poor Jason" = PoJay
See I thought...
...people pretended most of the first season didn't exist because it was so bad! ;)
"To make a bad day worse, spend it wishing for the impossible." - Calvin of Calvin and Hobbes
Forgot to say "Thank You", StuntDouble
Loved all of your coverage these past five days!
H's & K's,
T.
I'll second that!
Thanks StuntDouble! I'm going to miss your Facebook Updates. I especially enjoyed the comments directed at RTD.
hehe
funny stuff.
I was really confused at gwen at the end of the episode. is she somehow.....in love with jack? i mean, i am so lost again on the 'gwack' issue. "come back for me"
yeah, hi...there is rhys and his child inside of you.
it was weird. maybe i misunderstood.
ya'll need to do facebook recaps for other shows. i might have to beg for a brothers and sisters facebook recap when it comes back on
well
RTD just needs to kill Rhys in s4, so he finally have his dream-Gwack. Jack can be magically healed by spending 5 min. in the DW finale, then come back to Gwen and tell her he loves her.
I thought it was a disservice to Gwen, to put her back where she was in ep9 of S2
I can forgive Ianto. People
My Sad Realization
Here is my sad realization for today. With everything that has happened to Jack and Ianto during Children of Earth and everything that the producers and writers have been saying since the original broadcast in the UK to justify this creative trainwreck, I have come to a sad realization. Torchwood is now the British equivalent of 'Heroes.'
The producers (Russell T. Davies and Julie Gardner) have stated that killing off another major character was necessary to show the gravity of the situation and that in Torchwood 'people die young.' Unless you happen to be a certain young Welsh woman or an immortal time traveler that is. If there is any seriousness behind that statement it means that in any future installments the show will be filled with a host of under-developed characters with whom the viewer will never become emotionally invested.At any point that the creative team of the series is hard pressed to generate drama, the bodies will begin to drop, again with two notable exceptions.
The viewers of the program will instead be watching in the hopes of seeing big things go "boom" and spend most of their viewing time tearing apart the ridiculously contrived and thoughtlessly produced plots. All because the producers and writers thought that it was 'cool' and 'real' to make viewers stop caring about the characters, not realizing that that was really the one thing that they had going for them.
Of course the saddest truth of all in all of this is that Torchwood could survive like this. It would be appealing to the lowest common denominator and that would keep it going, unless the producers began trying out new boneheaded moves that drove even the most passive of viewers away. If it happens I will be hard pressed to contain my laughter.
Personally, I think that from here on out, I will occasionally watch episodes from the first and second seasons and try hard not to think of how badly this series was managed. It will be a while though, since i can't hear or see anything about Torchwood without feeling profound disappointment.
hmm
i'm not big on sci-fi and usually never understand all the science-y talk that goes on in these shows...
with that said, jack's grandson at the end was doing that high pitched noise, yet he gets a bloody nose and all that...but how come the other kids didn't? was his grandson hooked up? if i recall, he was simply just standing there.
I also wonder how he even was able to do the high pitched noise without being controlled by the 456. it was just a recording of the noise they made.
Answers
Everything you ask was answered on screen!
:)
second viewing...
seeing the last episode for the second time and then the afterthought show, i'm more sure of a couple of things:
1. BBC wanted to put an end to Torchwood.
2. Davies also wanted to put an end to Torchwood.
3. The door may still be open, but no one should count on it, even with Davies saying i'll always answer a call.
i will agree that in total this 5-part series was the best of all, but when they killed Ianto, they also killed the show. i think it was the purpose of his dying.
There's something odd about humans.
If you had two choices: Sacrifice one person or in not doing so, sacrifice about 300,000,000 people. Which would it be? Seriously. 1 or 300,000,000, it really isn't difficult. I would be more willing to save more than less, no matter how close I am to them. Myself and family/friends would suffer and grieve. Compare that to the entire world.
I know I sound cold but out of the two it is the most logical decision.
But Ianto's death was definately needless.
Actually, logic hasn't much to do with it
And...
That says sooooo much about who you are.
F**K YOU STRANGERS!
This is why the world is as f**ked up as it is... I think you are in the majority in that way of thinking.
F**K YOU STRANGERS!
Gee... maybe one day you'll be in a bad situation and someone will come by. look at you and say, "F**K YOU STRANGER!" and keep walking...
Please keep the language civil and clean.
oops
I've been breaking that rule like crazy. D:
"To make a bad day worse, spend it wishing for the impossible." - Calvin of Calvin and Hobbes
just wanted to say
The recaps were brilliant
It may be a cultural difference but I lived in Britain for awhile and I noticed that the heros were often dark and complicated and in some cases even unlikeable. I was as disappointed as anyone by the loss of Ianto, not the least because the character was funny and interesting as performed by Gareth. I was surprised that this series also brought me around on Gwen, and I suspect what I thought was bad acting was bad writing. The climactic bits were just bad, and in some ways demonstrated that while Barrowman is charismatic, he's not a great actor. You didn't get the feeling that he really cared about Ianto (hence not sure why the commentary said he was devastated) and he didn't seem to care about his grandson. Which left the ending without emotional resonance. It seemed rushed, and gratuitous. The woman who played his daughter was such a superior actror to him, that she showed his limitations. I also found the commentary bordering on the satirical. Talk about having to sing for your supper, the actors express relief that they still have jobs, and must sing the praises of their boss, while admitting nervously that they could be gone like Gareth. You couldn't pay me enough to have so act my "real life" lines just to stroke my boss's ego in addition to playing my character.
Nous Sommes Tous Sauvages.
about Jack
You didn't get the feeling that he really cared about Ianto (hence not sure why the commentary said he was devastated) and he didn't seem to care about his grandson.
I think that was definitely problems with the writing. RTD expects us to buy that Ianto dies so Jack is "devastated" by Day 5, yet he didn't bother to include any scene to show them in any way emotionally close, quite the opposite.
It's just one more of the miriad of inconsistencies and nonsenses that plagued CoE, but the one that pains me the most :(
Those who thought CoE was good, we'll surely enjoy Season 4. Good for them!
Thanks to the TV gods that Mad Men is coming back soon :)
season 4 commisioned
Apparently BBCA announced that Torchwood has been comissioned for a 4th season.
www.comicmix.com/news/2009/07/25/exclusive-torchwood-picked-up-for-another-season-by-bbc
(I'm sorry I have no idea how to make the link tags work)
So, what will it be? Torchwood: Gwen and the Red Shirts? or Torchwood: Jack Wasn't Really That Devastated?
The Latter
Nah... they'll neuter Jack,
You'll never know...
And, as always, a positive,
And, as always, a positive, reasoned, considered response. NOT. *rolls eyes* Why bother posting if that's all you have to say? Ever the dogmatic RTD cheerleader, juvenile and simplistic is clearly not working for you; neither is trying to misrepresent someone else.
Frankly, I don't consider myself personally directly affected by RTD's recent errors at all (contrary to your comment). Of course, that doesn't mean elements of CoE weren't blatantly homophobic. I may or may not ever watch future Torchwood (I think it unlikely, because after CoE, that's not my idea of entertainment), but as far as other RTD work? I've said nothing about that. You are corrected.