Is "Superbad" Supergay?

I dunno.  I went to see this since I'd heard that it was actually gay-friendly (and the preview suggested that the film was cool with avoiding obvious gay-panic humor).  But there was still a lot of dialogue of the "dude, that's so gay" type, and pretty much anytime the Seth character does exhibit traits that might (possibly) suggest he's gay, we're usually meant to laugh at those traits.  It's definitely a step up from something like "Wild Hogs," but sometimes I think as a community we're so desperate for positive gay images in mainstream comedies we overlook a whole lot to try and stretch out what's actually very little, if its truly anything at all. 

I've seen Rogen and Apatow even get praised for their approach to gay humor, but so far most of what I've seen in their films isn't much different than the "it's hiiii-lar-ious to call someone gay" humor we see in a million other films. And, as you point out, there aren't any actual, specific gay characters in the film, like there haven't been in the Apatow films I've seen. Just as a point of comparison: wouldn't it be a bit strange if, say, a couple of big Hollywood writers made several films in a row where a bunch of white guys made jokes centered on black men, but there weren't actually any significant African-American characters in those films? 

Maybe I'm just missing it, but "Superbad" felt like just another movie where I had to sit in the theatre and pretend I didn't notice it every time the audience laughed uproariously each time someone or something was called "gay."   If it were 1985, "quasi-gay subtext" might be enough to make up for it, but it's freakin' 2007...  Enough with subtext.  Subtext is fine if you're Ingmar Bergman and it's 1963, but in comedy, subtext is for chickens and the whishy-washy. There's a lot of humor to be mined around gay characters, but calling someone or something gay-- and certainly being gay-- should have stopped being jokes in mainstream films at least twenty years ago, "subtext" be damned.

Yes, ''Superbad'' is really a love story between two straight guys. Women barely play a supporting role in this movie. And clearly Seth and Evan have a bond. But I never read Seth as ''gay or confused.'' Lest there be any confusion, the movie ends (spoiler!) with Seth and Evan going their separate ways with the female objects of their desire.

I, too, had heard this movie was ''gay-friendly,'' but the anti-gay epithets in it left a bad taste in my mouth. At the top of the movie, Evan is called a ''faggot'' by a bully. Yeah, I realize it shows the other guy is a bully, but do we really need to reinforce the negativity of that insult and tell, especially young people, that the best way to denigrate someone is with an anti-gay slur? Also, Seth twice calls ''McLovin'' a ''fag-ool.'' Invariably, ''gay'' is used as a putdown. Plus, there are no gay characters in the movie. Can you imagine a movie where the white leads make N-word jokes, but never include any black characters? As it is, ''Superbad'' has only one person of color of any note: the black cashier at the store where ''McLovin'' tries to buy liquor.

''Superbad'' has some very funny moments in it, and it's really a wish-fulfillment movie for ''nerds,'' but it's not as enlightened or as ''gay-friendly'' as I wished it were.  

 I couldn't agree more with Bobbyjoe.I think some people look for and see "gayness" where there is none.Another good example of this is High school musical.There are people who are so convinced that there's a gay character in those movies that they talk about it like it's not even an issue of subtext.I once read something that said something to the effect of "as a sign of progress even the Disney channel's High school musical has a gay character that's not only accepted, but populer".

Just yesterday this site made mention of High school musical 2, and a couple of people essentially said "you would have had to have never these movies, or be an idiot not to see that this guy is gay".Are you kidding me?They never said he was gay and until it's made clear by, oh, I don't know.....saying so out loud, I don't consider that character gay.I know we're not as far as we should be, but I think we should be past that at this point.Seriously, it's not the 50's where those characters can only exist in code anymore.

That whole saying a character's gay without saying they're gay by dressing them up in certain clothes, or having them act a certain way thing is played out.It's lame and it doesn't count.Even if that were the case it's stereotypical and offensive.One of the things I hate most is this gay/ straight double standard.Why does heterosexualty get to be so overt while homosexuality has to be confusing and ambiguous?If a character is gay then just say so.Gay subtext?.....I don't buy it.

According to stereotypes, Ryan COULD be read that way: Unlike the other principals of that movie, we don't see him paired up with a girlfriend (or boyfriend). He's not seen pursuing anyone romantically. He's artistic and stylish, often dressed in pink, and in this sequel, is shown to be quite a dancer and director. According to a New York Times review of the stage version of ''High School Musical,'' Ryan is more overtly gay, making catty remarks. Still ... at the end of the day, he's not out. Is Disney playing both sides? This way, Ryan can appeal to gay-friendly fans and gays. But as long as he's not out, he doesn't tick off conservatives and ''Family Values'' types.  

 Ofcourse they won't let him be a gay because it's the Disney channel.It's for the tween set, so it has to be family friendly, meaning, ofcourse, not gay.I was actually thinking of starting a new forum topic about homosexuality in kids programming.I remember reading this Out magazine article about Ugly Betty that touched on it.While talking about whether Justin could be gay, or not it essentially said "people wouldn't really mind if Justin, who's like 11, or 12, got caught reading a Playboy, or something because boys that age do stuff like that.It's expected.It's like that's my boy".

It also said something like "if he were caught looking at the guys in a Sears underwear catalogue, or something then it would be creepy".I was disappointed to hear that because it came from one of the show's producers, the guy writing the article, or the guy who runs the Trevor project.I don't remember(I would have to go digging through my back issues).I'm not saying Justin should be looking at porn, but why the double standard?It just goes to show that even the more liberal, accepting, and gay people can have anxiety and hang ups about kids and homosexuality.

I think they should have gay teen characters in those Disney movies even in lead roles.They made a Disney original movie a few years ago where Shia Lebouf played a mentally handicapped teen, which is a pretty heavy issue for that channel.I don't think of being gay as a nessicarily heavy, adulterated issue, though.it can be kept at that innocent puppy love stage like it is for the straight ones.It is the Disney channel, after all.LOL.I think if it's kept lite......I can hear Pat Robertson now."The homosexuals are tryng to recruit our children".Some of those kids are gay anyway, so why not?

The recent article Grading the majors:the movie studios also touched on it.Sorry for going so far off topic.

Gay men don't come from babies, we are born full-grown from some mysterious source.  God forbid that little leaguer or ballarina next door should be gay.  Far as movies go, those that have grown a set will work on gay friendly or specific films.  Others are in it to maximize profits and if that means having your head shoved up the chute of conservstive middle-America, then it's no surprise the GLBT community doesn't get better representaton.

 "It's your will against mine and you will lose."  Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge

Celtic Tiger once again hits the nail on the head!

And I'll tell my Mom about the birth thing, she will be surprised to hear that! :)

 

Justin

How obvious does a movie have to be to actually be believed...yes Seth is gay. Its not digging to see it, its not a wish for everything to have some gay angle, its just obvious fact.

If you need some sort of confirmation just look at the end where both boys finally connect with the girls they have been pursuing. Evan goes off to have a date with his girl and Seth goes off to buy make-up with his. That is about as symbolic as you can get without using a Mack truck to get your point across.

Yes there are jokes that are at the expense of gay people, but there are jokes that are at the expense of pretty much all people. Its a comedy and it mocks stuff! Thats what makes it funny. Like the writers of In Living Color used to say..."we insult all people equally".

What makes this a great film is that it portrays teenage guys the way they really are... loud-mouth, crude, and full of bravado. Most soon to be out gay men were first self-denying, closet gay boys. Most gay kids don't come out in high school or even realize they were gay in high school. At the very least many were still trying very hard to be what they though they ought to be, namely straight. I know I was...then 24 hours into college life and I was riding a fricking gay pride float.

I'll lay odds Seth's character was written as gay even if its never stated by the writers and despite the fact that the writers are not gay.

even if he is, just like high school musical people will always project whatever they want ryan or seth to be and writers often play with that.