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Waxing, cologne, and masculinity.A while back in another one of my threads, How far has gay visibility come?, Evan and GayTVluver got into this little spat.At the time I don't think I fully understood what the debate was about, but now I think I do.....grooming and gay men's judgements of each other.I've recently noticed this trend, or backlash, against gay men who have extensive grooming habits especially when it comes to hair and grooming products.I've heard things like "you're a man.You should smell like a man."What the fuck does that mean? I've heard someone say "men are supposed to have hair", and make a joke about how once men who shave have removed all traces of masculinity they should use the razor to cut off their penis.In an interview with Gabriel Romero, from Dante's cove, this Here! TV radio host said it was nice to see "a masculine gay man who's not afraid to have hair on his chest.""I'm so tired of the waxing everything."Why does having a hairy chest make you a masculine gay man?Some people just have very wrong ideas about what it means to not like body hair. Alan Cumming just could not understand it.I saw him on an epsiode of Dinner for five, and he's talking to Piper Laurie, who at some point in the conversation mentions that she waxes....brazilian style and her husband, who I think she said is brazilian, likes it.First he goes "why would you want to get rid of the hair that grows on your body?".Then he suggested that it was creepy because people who like people without body hair, more specifically pubic hair, enjoy it because "it seems young and child like", and that he thought it was very disturbing.What a stupid thing to say.It has nothing to do with that. I get irritated when people, especially gay men, start questioning someone's masculinity over their grooming habits.It's so trite.If smelling like a man means having body oder then I must not be one because I do use the occaional spritz of cologne.I get complimented on how I smell.I'm tired of hearing about how "queeny" waxing is.This doesn't make any sense to me.What does body hair have to do with masculinity?Some of the most macho guys I can think of have smooth bodies.Even Stone Cold Steve Austin, the great red neck hero of the wrestling world, had a bare chest and legs. Personally, i'm all about bodies of the well groomed smooth, hairless variety, and not because of some media image of what a gay man is supposed to be has been shoved down my throat.I think it looks better, feels better, and is more hygienic.If I could afford laser hair removal I would get it in a second.Years ago, for what reason I can't remember;maybe it was because I was going to be swimming, I shaved my legs.I remember being a bit surprised at how different mundane things like sliding underneath my bed covers felt.I liked it.You know what?I also use Neutrogena, so what? Submitted by homoguy563 (1304 points) (205 posts) on Thu, 2007-12-20 07:57. |
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Maculinity shouldn't be defined
by ones hairiness, I can agree with that. Otherwise a significant number of men in the world would not be considered masculine. People seem to forget that a large number of the world's male population lives in Asia, and many of them have very little body hair. My partner has virtualy no hair on his legs, and just a little on his chest.
To be honest though I don't get the obsession with shaving and waxing ones chest. Although having a hairy chest should not be something that makes you more manly, it also should not be something you should be made to feel ashamed of either. The only time I ever had my chest hair shaved was when I was having my heart monitored. I quite like my hairy chest, and I also like hair on my legs. I must admit though as I get older hair is starting to sprout in the most unusual places (in the ears, on the nose!). That I could do without.
As for cologne, hair gel, hair colouring etc., forget it, the less time I spend in front of the mirror primping and pruning the better! I like to have a turnaround time of 20 minutes in the washroom every morning. Contact lenses, shaving, brushing the teeth, and showering all done in record time!
Cheers
JBE
Masculinity is a state-of-mind
Being blond doesn't mean your dumb and being bald doesn't mean your old. That's what this is. It's not possible for something like body hair 2 define someones masculinity. As soon as I started reading this I thought of Professional Wrestling, and coming from a small town I've seen how the macho, tough, "masculine" guys hella get into this shit the way women (and myself) get into soap operas. They seem 2 like watching guys all over each other as well. And I like the "great redneck hero of the wrestling world" title LOL!
I myself like my body hair, maybe cuz I don't have much. And I like it on my men 2. Not super-hairy though...Sorry Bears. I shaved my legs once in high school so I remember how sliding under the covers feels and I agree with U. But I hate the new growth. I love 5-o'clock shadow on a guys face when making-out, but not all over his body. But that preference is purely physical (it's like not wanting 2 touch a vagina). It doesn't mean I think smooth guys R less masculine. Look at the American Gladiators. I can't wait 4 that show (one of them is FINE!). And I do use cologne everyday, even if I'm staying at home alone. I don't like the possibility of B/O at any time, and that 2 is a preference. I don't like people to stink. I know some hippie and rasta people who R tight as hell, but I can only hang out with them outdoors (don't tell them).
And there's always gonna B shit-talking queens in the world thinking their preference and standards about what a gay man is supposed to B R the only ones that should exist in the world. To hell with them! Their shallow opinions go in the "Hater Mailbox" just like homophobic ones and R then forgotten. If any fags out there want 2 B a "tough-as-nails jock" or a "prancing, flaming queen" it's fine with me... Just don't stink!
Masculinity is Real
I used to be like homoguy in that I only preferred men with smooth chests. Slowly my preference changed, now I prefer hairy chested men. Some men look better smooth others look better with hair. You've seen guys over pluck their eyebrows. They look ridiculous and unattractive. That is one example of going overboard. The way you dress or groom can either enhance your looks/ masculinity or lessen it.
What I hear a lot is transgender rhetoric, gay men saying gender or gender characteristics don't matter. They matter to me. I'm a gay man and I'm attracted to men. If you adhere to "gender characteristics don't matter" you will be unhappy and single much of your life. Gay men (98%) prefer masculine men. It's biological. I talk more about this over here.
Thank Heavens
there are guys like you Evan and my partner, otherwise I would start feeling like a freak for having hair on my chest (all the men in my immediate family have hairy chests as well).
How times have changed, in the 70's the gay ideal was the super-masculine type, now it is the metrosexual or even the twinky! I am sure it will sway back the other way eventually, after all if platform shoes can make a comeback why not hairy chests?
Cheers
JBE
Male grooming etc