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Van comments on the lack of kissingFrom Soap Opera Weekly:
Internet fans have been burning up the message boards wondering when Luke and Noah are going to kiss again (if ever). Van Hansis' (Luke) ears have been burning too. Well, screw the show for making Van answer this question because they are too cowardly to answer it themselves. But at least someone is talking about it. Submitted by marcella (137 points) (26 posts) on Thu, 2008-02-21 15:10. |
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er, not really van...
"I feel like we're all trying to tell this story as best as we can. CBS and Proctor and Gamble are being very supportive. The characters are still developing and coming along."
^ really? wow, what is van smoking? no offense to him, but seriously? CBS and whatever may be supportive of the storyline, but they are NOT telling the story the best they can. at least to me, they are not.
anyways, yeah....don't know what van is talking about.
What is Van supposed to
actually, van could.......
van's not stupid...at least, i hope he isn't...
with that said, i don't know why he COULDN'T speak out about the unrealistic portrayal of the relationship between luke/noah. lots of stars take stands for their characters and storylines in soaps.
if i were a star and fans were saying "the relationship on tv is getting people mad. we don't want you to do this and that with so and so" - - then i would think "well, i want to make my fans happy" and therefore, i would talk to someone higher up and try to come up with a new idea on what to do.
but whatever...that's just me. maybe van's not in that position yet or hasn't got the balls to do so. EH
This is really a question
This is really a question that should not be answered by Van, and it's pretty clear to me that this was Corporate script.
CBS and P&G, you're a bunch of timid little pussycats who just can't come out and say what we all know. You offer about as much support to this storyline as a two dollar bra. There will never be nothing more than hugs and handholding from now on. And it's time fans, like myself, accept this and move on.
word...
In the Soap Opera Weekly
In the Soap Opera Weekly poll, 96% said they wanted Luke and Noah to get more physical.
I hope TPTB realizes that holding back on the intimacy is more controversial than just showing it.
Dude, check out the CBS
Who wrote Van's dialog? Brian Cahill?
"I feel like we're all trying to tell this story as best as we can. CBS and Proctor and Gamble are being very supportive. The characters are still developing and coming along."
gmab.
Don't Get it
I don’t understand why people are so upset with ATWT and with Nuke? We need to keep in mind how far we’ve come, the last REAL gay character we had on a soap opera was, I believe, Matt from Melrose Place and while he was a good character let us not forget how asexual he was. While I was only nine years old in 1992, when the show first came on, I have a clear memory of wanting to see him be more affectionate whenever he did have a boyfriend, which was few and far between.
Now while I was upset with the Valentines Day Ep, though I can’t say that I wasn’t surprised, and I was really upset with Christmas Ep. But every time I get upset I flash back to that nine year old kid who was wishing for poor old Matty, who never got the chance to be a tenth as affectionate as Nuke.
Every time they’re on camera they’re touching each other, holding each other, caressing each other, telling each other how much their life would suck without the other. When I was nine I didn’t get that from Melrose Place, I had to subtle for an asexual gay character. Nine year olds who are watching ATWT now will never have to say that. Am I the only one that gets how huge this is? Kiss or no kiss, this fact should not be over looked. I’ve been waiting 15 years for one of my soaps to give me a gay character that shows real emotion and love to his boyfriend and for one will not condemn ATWT for not showing them kissing often.
With Love,
Eros!
Apples to Oranges
Melrose Place isn't the best option for comparison because it was a nighttime show. So from the current perspective that lines it up against gay representation on current nighttime shows, the flagship of which would be Brothers & Sisters which has built-in positive gay representation in Kevin, who has had more than a little onscreen kissing.
This is of course exempting the world of cable TV. There we've had gay representation much more prominently. Nuke are also way behind the gay characters in overseas TV.
Daytime is another animal entirely and is lagging behind the evening shows and orders of magnitude behind cable or foreign broadcast. As I mentioned in other posts, Nuke are not the first gay characters in daytime, or even the first gay couple. All My Children already went there back in the 90's. They're just the first gay couple to be promoted as a supercouple.
However their qualification for that status is dubious at best given the tepid nature of their relationship. Yes, they make a lot of (really repetitve) statements of how much they mean to each other. But that's all that they do. Their relationship could easily be passed off as a close platonic friendship.
Matters are made worse by the fact that we saw a LOT more physical action from Noah when he was dating Maddie than we have between him and Luke. Noah and Maddie had extended make-out sessions and, in fact, they did sleep together at least once that the aftermath was shown.
Contrast that to his chaste affair with Luke and things don't look quite so good, especially when you consider that he swore that he loved Maddie too. Indeed, it rather blatantly underlines the difference between straight (good) and gay (bad). Overall, his relationship with Luke looks and feels platonic at best. That might have been fine back in 1992 but today it stinks of second-class status.
Hate to say this Psionycx
Hate to say this Psionycx but you are wrong, according to
David Hinckley of NY Daily News,
Damon Romine of GLAAD says that "Luke and Noah's relationship is the first gay male love story portrayed on daytime in 60 years."
There you have it.
Nope.
Actually, it's merely the first one to get this level of coverage.
But All My Children made news during the 90's when they introduced a gay teacher (this was when Bianca was nothing but a baby), and he did in fact end up with handsome doctor although their relationship was never covered in a lot of detail. Nonetheless, it did happen and therefore Nuke are not the first.
First Gay Soap Couple
Looked it up.
1998: "Daytime TV broke gay ground of its own, with ABC's introduction this past season of All My Children's gay teen, Kevin Sheffield (played by Ben Jorgensen)"
"high school teacher Michael Delaney (Chris Bruno), his story peaked earlier this season when actor Bruno left the show"
Played from oct 1996 - dec 1997 and Cohabiting with his lover Dr. Brad Phillips
from soap central
Michael Delaney was a respected veteran in the Marines, a basketball coach, and high school history teacher. He was loved by all until they found out more about his sexual preference. Michael "came out" about being gay to his history class and found that the close-minded citizens of Pine Valley were not as accepting as he thought they would be. With the help of his brother-in-law, Trevor Dillon, Michael successfully won a court case against the Pine Valley School Board, who wanted him off the job because he would "teach" his lifestyle to his students. Needless to say, this hate campaign was led by non other than Enid Nelson, Greg Nelson's Mother.
At last reference, Michael was currently living happily with his boyfriend, Brad Phillips, and remained on staff as a teacher at Pine Valley High School.
Both right ?
OK know nothing about All My Children but I trust you on what you are saying.
I believe that Luke and Noah are the first "teen" male couple and that the teen bit keeps getting dropped in the media reports and thus by sloppy reporting became known as the first couple.
Thus All My Children has first male couple and As the World Turns has first teen male couple.
Nice research Nukely
I'll admit that the names had eluded me after all these years. I just remember watching the storyline back then.
The absence of fact-checking is apparent in some of the coverage that's out there. But as I've said in the past my issue is that I think that Nuke is being needlessly praised by a lot of people as innovative when honestly they really aren't.
Degrassi has already covered the gay teen relationship thing with Marco and Dylan. It's worth noting that Degrassi is essentially a soap opera targeted at teen viewers, although it obviously isn't lumped in with traditional soaps, which are targeted at housewives and feature more adult characters than teens. I find it interesting though that a gay teen couple on a teen-oriented show was less of a phenomenon than such a couple on a mainline soap.
Nuke are promoted as a gay "supercouple", but aren't played as one. Their second class status is evident in their very tepid relationship, which is frankly so dull that if they were straight the mainstream audience would be demanding that they either heat up or get off the show. The fact that Noah and Maddie were so intense (and physical) in contrast to the almost Victorian courtship of Nuke sends a message in and of itself. And it's not a good one.
First, Gay, Male, Teen, Couple, The Spawn Of A Super Couple...
The idea that it's cool to have a gay couple on T.V., why can't that be good enough? Doesn't it sell enough tickets to the award ceremony? Why does everything have to be promoted like a walk on the moon?
What that seems to do is take us away form the real story: that what we are selling might turn out to be an apple with a worm in it.
Thank you for sharing your
Thank you for sharing your thoughts and story. While I was a bit older than 9 years old, I too remember being thrilled that there was a gay character on Melrose Place. Seem to remember Matt's navy boyfriend was kinda hot.
I'm over joyed that the gay youth of today have so many role models and examples to see. Their futures seem so much brighter and different than the world in which I grew up in with so few gay role models to guide me.
While I think I get most of the complaints about Nuke I do disagree with them some times. Example, there have been complaints that the boys should be living in the dorms instead of being on the farm. However, when so many gay youth can be tossed out of their homes for being gay, to have an example where the gay family member is still a member of the family and is not something to be ashamed of or hidden is a powerful message to my mind.
I also don't need to see a lot of (nor did I expect a lot of) kissing from Nuke. Honestly, I had no real issue with the panning away from the boys at Christmas time. I did not need to see the actual kiss for it to meaningfull. If it had been a pan away with a straight couple it would have been a nice romantic gesture and that's how I took it. (I don't count that as a kiss as Holden interupts them). Now that is the point where the trouble starts for me.
There is a message being sent out by not showing kissing when kissing would be a perfectly natural response in a normal relationship. After all the interuptions and times when a kiss could have been used to express affection (and would have been used by straight couples ---ie the Valentine's Day mess) As The World Turns is treating Luke and Noah differently. The message is that expressions of gay affection are unpleasant or disgusting and should not be seen. That being gay is something that means that you should be treated differently and in a manor that makes you less as a person than your straight counterpart.
What ATWT / CBS / P & G ---the who is to blame is another matter --- need to be called to account for is this different treatment of Luke and Noah. While it is great that those 9 year olds of today will have role models such as Luke and Noah, do we really want those role models to be giving those kids the message that being gay is something shamefull, that it should not be seen and gay equals second class status ? That is the reason ATWT needs to be condemmed.
Van Hansis
I feel sorry for Van Hansis. He has been put in a no-win situation. If he go against the company then he could be labeled a troublemaker and they will put out the word and he will be blacklisted and if he goes along with the bull then he is a collaberator. He is in a situation where he may have to choose his career or his conscience. P & G are obviously going to trot him out to spew the company line and eventually he may find himself stuck between screwing his career or refusing to be a collaberater. Damned if he does and damned if he does! I wonder if he considered all that would come with taking the part of Luke Snyder? It may be more than he expected or wants to deal with. I look for him to bail if things continue as they are now!
"You bit the hand, Marty, You bit the hand!"
Van Hansis is too cool!
I really feel that Van could get away with singing what ever song that P&G wants him to sing and the fans are going to stand right behind him. But his popularity is not being transfered to the producers, who are looking more and more like Montgomery Burns, Homer's maniacal boss on The Simpson's.
Undoubtedly, this has got to be hard for Van. If you've seen his interviews you'll know he's just a sweet and sincere hippy-boy -he says he'd like to be a dolphin trainer if he weren't an actor. This is really his first job out of College and he said ("I know this is going to sound dramatic") that he broke out in hives when he first happened upon a fan site dedicated to him on the internet.
He told Soap Opera Digest that Sir Ian McKellen is his favorite actor. So I don't think After Elton will see the last of Van for some time to come and lucky for his fans, neither will we.
AFA
Did no one read the blog from a couple days ago which actually, hard to believe as it is, included a quote from an ATWT exec that CBS & P&G would NOT go against the American Family Assoc. (a right, wing, anti (in my words) religious group that has money and power and clout and huge (though minority) membership that they can mobilize at a moment's notice and flood CBS and P&G with anti-gay-related programming comments? ATWT & P&G are far more fearful of AFA than they are of their "gay" audience. No matter how many letters we write or how many emails are sent disparaging the insulting and pathetic dumbing-down of the Luke/Noah s/l, the large AFA bombardment of "get rid of gay kissing & intimate touching" or we shall boycot your products is the voice CBS and P&G listen to.
I sent a letter a couple months ago to ATWT & P&G to let them know I would stop buying any P&G products (& it was amazing just how many P&G products there are and how many I was purchasing). But my lone voice could never stand up against the onslought of the mobilized and fanatical American Family Ass. (Yes I purposely left off the "oc" in Assoc.).
Whole heartedly agree with
Whole heartedly agree with you. I didn't see the post, but it's very clear to me that CBS is just as guilty as P&G when it comes to catering to the AFA and Dobson crowd.
And you're not the only one who's boycotting P&G products (which I too was amazed at how many I was purchasing).
Desperate Housewives of the AFA
It's hardly a surprise. Let's be honest here, most of the audience of the daytime soaps consist of Middle American breeding cows that have nothing better to do with their time than worry about the "morals" of America. The soaps have always been their turf and while they adore watching sin in the form of heterosexual adultery and fornication they draw the line at homosexuality, which is of course something they would never do.
Since I didn't bother with soaps for years until Nuke came along losing them entirely would be no big loss to me as I would just return to not watching soaps. I would much rather have full-featured gay characters on evening TV anyway.
See, this is where I
See, this is where I disagree. 59% or more of Queer as Folk's(USA version) audience was women! I think that the majority of increased viewers for ATWT, me included, are women 18-49 and we want to see gay, same-sex relationships shown on TV. I think that if CBS and P & G did their research into their audience they would find this. And, I don't believe that there are that many gay men out there who are suddenly turning on soap operas or that there were enough of them to account for all of ATWT's increase in viewers. It is now the 3rd highest rated daytime drama! The demographics just aren't that way. If you look at all the sites supporting the Nuke storyline, the majority of members are women(straight women!)! I also believe that TPTB underestimate those viewers male and female and that when this storyline finally crosses that line in the sand where insulting viewers intellegence and their belief in equality is hit, ATWT could lose up to 35% of its current audience or more. That's what I find is sad. They take the opportunity and then screw it up to protect themselves from Bigots and Homophobic hatemongers. There are more of us than of them, we are just not as rabid or maybe motivated with hate enough to want to control the world and the way people think and what they see!
"You bit the hand, Marty, You bit the hand!"
Be Real
Is it safe to say Nuke is the longest running gay couple on a soap?
Before last week, I was fairly tolerant of the portrayal. After all, it is a soap, and most of the characters are too busy stabbing each other in the back to be romantic. Then I saw the Valentine's ep, and I am starting to see the other side of the argument. To see Nuke have a mere warm embrace in a sea of smooching heterosexual couples in 1 hour is insulting. Ten years ago, I would be grateful to see any openly gay character on TV let alone a couple. Now, I have several TV shows and movies with realistic portoyals of gay folks to choose from.
I'm just not sure what CBS is thinking here. You've already pissed off the conservatives by just having an openly gay character on the show. You taunt the conservatives further with same-sex hand holding and hugs. I'm not exactly sure what the big deal is about taking it up another notch. At the same time, gay viewers are losing their patience with this unrealistic storyline. You know it is a cold day in hell when the American Family Association and gays are uniting to boycott ATWT sponsors.