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Olli and Christian can't end well...can they?After reading replies in the other threads and rewatching all the Olli/Christian episodes on YouTube I'm left with the same feeling of dread I often get with gay storylines on TV...this can't end well. 1) It is a soap and soaps often have flaky relationships...they are hardly ever solid and even the solid ones need to have their struggles. I'm all for struggles but in the case of Olli and Christian I'm committed to this relationship. I really want this one to last through the ups and downs. 2) Based on the non-Olli/Christian relationships I've seen in the clips there seems to be a lot of typical bed switching and changing of hearts. So my wish is this...they have a great relationship with all the ups and downs people have when they are in love...or they ride off into the sunset together. Sure..it would suck not seeing them on the show...but at least they are together. Submitted by GayTVluver (2766 points) (566 posts) on Thu, 2008-05-22 12:16. |
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Past history of gay character on Verbotene liebe
The writers of Verbotene liebe most of time don't break up popular pairing and if do, they get back together sometime later in the show. Let look at past history of gay couples on the show. Popular gay couple such as Tom/Ulli and Carla/Hanna ended because one of the actor decided to leave the show so the writers have no choice but to break them up. While Tom/Olli ended because a lot of people didn't really like the pairing and see Ulli as Tom's soulmate. And last same-sex couple Carla/Susanne ended for either of two reasons, the actess of who play Susanne left the show or the writers ran out of storylines for them (their story last about 2 years).
Final point, people on the official message board mention that Christian/Olli storyline remind them a lot of Tom/Ulli and Carla/Hanna. Tom move into the flat of Ulli and his girlfriend (remind you of anything), and they fell in love with each other. Carla fell in love with Hanna who was in a relationship with Lars, Olli's uncle. She on one occansion found Hanna sleeping and wanted to kiss her. Later when Hanna found out about Carla's feeling, she told her she just want to be friend only but later on, she dream about Carla.
You've calmed me...
Actually...
...I guess most fans would agree that VERBOTENE LIEBE is quite reckless about breaking up even popular pairings. Although it is true that for most part it's because of an actor / actress leaving or all possible stories simply being told. It is, after all, a soap. In a recent interview, by the way- funny as it may sound- the headwriter of the show actually said that they get part of their inspiration from American shows. Hard to believe, he?
Anyway, I do have the high hopes that Ollian will remain for a couple of months and then the writers will take them off- screen with the same kind of dignity with which they've brought them on!
And, yes, secretly I hope for a big old gay wedding and happiness ever after ON SCREEN :-) On a soap, really ANYTHING can happen, can't it?
--
The Gays Of Daytime
Thore
Nobody has heard anything,
You are a storm cloud :)
"I guess most fans would agree that VERBOTENE LIEBE is quite reckless about breaking up even popular pairings"
Ick...why ya gotta bring me down :(
I'm crossing my fingers with you!
But as far as inspiration goes...I can see that in two ways. Maybe they take straight storylines that worked well and make them gay. Us gays are so good at converting. And maybe they do take inspiration frm the gay storyline...they look at the American version and say..."Boy, they really f'd that one up...let's take it and do it right. :)
If you read the entire post
If you read the entire post by Wolfi, most of time Verbotene liebe breaking up a popular pairings not because the writers want to but one part of the couple decided to leave or there is nothing else can be told. Christian/Olli is still fairly news so they got plenty of storylines to be told.
And they the most popular pairing on the show even beating the next IT couple Lydia/Sebastian at least according to poll done on the official forum.
I read it...I was just kidding.
I said I was hoping with him...there's a smiley after my title.
BTW...Yooodith better end up with Fabian!
Now you must be kidding
No way...Fabian is the better choice.
First...his awkwardness is charming. Second...he's very sweet. Third...Constantin is a player...he's way too polished. That scene in the park was wayyyyyy to staged. If I was Judith I'd have seen that as a red flag. Third...I think they are both attractive but you can't base it all on looks. Their beauty is only skin deep. Constantin is trouble.
Plus...how can you say that the box of poems wasn't romantic? Fabian gets points for effort alone. Constantin probably has that telescope/candle/star certificate in a boxed up kit in his car trunk...he's used it on other girls I'm sure!
GO FABIAN! :)
Yep - also for me: fab!
I cannot agree with you more (and you and me belong to a very rare species... ;-)
I also don't like Judith with Constantin.
Actually I have always liked Constantin more than Fabian.
But first of all IMO Judith and Constantin don't match at all when it comes down to the looks. He is way to handsome for her. Fabian and her do more or less play in the same league.
But what 's even more important: As the complete opposite of Ollian I cannot see any chemistry between Judith and Constantin. Everything seems staged, I can't feel the passion.
While I really can imagine Ollian shagging in private life after the shootings, too *lol*,
I imagine the actor of Constantine thinking:"I would never date that chick in private life."
I like Judith, though. She just doesn't match with Constantine IMO.
While there is also not the very best chemistry between Fabian and her, at least they share their architecture/design interests and it is a bit like some pairing that got together because of mutual intrests, so lack of chemistry is not that important.
BUT, as Fabian leaving the show (because his character was so unpopular with fans) I guess in the remaining 2-3 months his character is still featured, not to much sunset for him an Judith is gonna happen, so more likely Constantine is gonna be the winner if not something completely different will take place.
Actually it seems that
Expectations of Ollian
This really is agonizing isn't it? Because honestly they're the best gay couple on TV right now, possibly worldwide.
As starved as we are for good gay characters in meaningful relationships the fear of even losing one is terrible. After all, unlike straight people it's not as if we have a vast number of other couples to latch onto and daydream about. And people are still upset over the whole Roman/Deniz/Vanessa debacle over on Alles Was Zaehlt.
Also, I do think that there is also a questionable sociological element at work here too. Why does so much romantic drama center on the failure of relationships? Why not couples facing their problems together? Have we all become so cynical about relationships that the very instant one forms we're already looking ahead to it's presumed inevitable failure?
All I can say is that I would rather see Ollian move forward together, or leave the show together, than see them split up. But I don't know what we can hope for.
But aren't most fictional love stories like that?
Even outside of soap operas, most romantic movies either end with the couple finally realizing they love each other and kissing in the rain (Breakfast at Tiffany's, Four Weddings and a Funeral) or racing after the other for a reconciliation clinch (A Man and a Woman, Notting Hill); or end sadly with them parting ways (Casablanca, Brief Encounter, The Way We Were); or end tragically with one (or both) of them dying (Romeo & Juliet, The English Patient, Titanic)
I'm hard-pressed to think of a love story that's also about a "marriage"--a couple of Tracy/Hepburn movies come to mind (Woman of the Year, Adam's Rib), but they seem to be the exception.
VL being a soap opera, it's inevitable that something will come along to severely test Ollian's relationship--I just hope that it isn't a woman seducing one of them away, as we saw on AWZ or was used as a plot device on ATWT. Maybe Ollie seeing Christian in a particularly brutal boxing match could create conflict (he's worried about Christian's well-being) or Christian's new promoter forcing him to use steroids, which he keeps hidden from Ollie.
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It Depends
I think back to shows like Dynasty, where the whole point was Blake and Krystle overcoming an absurd number of travails but still ending up together (happily, gay son Steven also ended up partnered). Or Hart to Hart, where you had a devoted couple jointly solving crimes.
It is definitely true that soaps run on infidelity although like I said it leaves seasoned soap viewers with a sense of inevitable doom for any pairing that develops. Especially nowadays because the cycle has become so short that characters merge to form "supercouples" that literally fall apart in under a year. Historical supercouples like Holden and Lily on ATWT certainly have had their ups, downs, breakups and makeups, but have done so over a long term span. Today, no sooner does a couple get together than we start wondering when it will end.
It's kind of sad really.
2 quick answers
1.) It's very hard to do that kind of thing and still keep it interesting. And it's very hard to do it without the characters eventually coming off as patronizing and holier than thou. There is a reason why people make fun of The Waltons of 7th Heaven even though a lot of people loved and watched these shows. In fact, I dare say that the only way people can watch other people be happy and perfect through prolonged periods of time is if it is mixed with comedy. Which is why sitcoms usually are the places where you go for lasting long term relationships Chandler/Monica on Friends, Dharma and Greg, King of Queens, Rosanne, Home Improvement, The Cosby Show.
Dallas and Dynasty might have had their one stable couple, but they worked only because they were the contrast to all the dozens and dozens of backstabbing, amoral, whoring around other characters that made sure the show was kept interesting. Meanwhile a soap opera consisting only of happy stable couples who never break up and always do the right thing and are always pleasant to each other just wouldn't have much of a story.
2.) Femminism happened. Because back then it was still considered acceptable for a character to forgive cheating or other kinds of bad behavior. If some of the stable couples from back then appeared on shows now just how quick would people be to denounce them as boring or to call either partner a doormat. (just see how many characters call Luke a doormat (and Noah a dick) even though Nuke at the moment come closest to a stable couple that still has a storyline; and what Luke had to endure with Ameera and Captain Perv is just a fraction of all the horror your typical soap heroine had to go through back in the day)
I truely believe the
I truely believe the writers are going to make Olli and Christian last as a couple. There is just to much good going on between the actors and this storyline. And the chemistry between them can never be underestimated. This kind of chemistry that Jo and Thore have together on screen is something all too rare betweem actors. Jo and Thore are so believable as a couple in love it almost seems real. And their acting is very good based on SOAP standards. Yes, I'm guessing Olli and Christian will be around for a little while yet. And like Wolfi, I hope we have a big beautiful wedding for Ollian when their storyline on Forbidden Love comes to an end.
Fab...I have to agree with you about the terrible lack of chemistry between the actors who play Judith and Constantin. It really came through clearly when they kissed a couple of episodes ago. It was has though they were forcing themselves to perform that kiss. And it does seem rather skewed in the looks department. Constantin is a handsome young man, while Judith has this podgy next door girl look to her. Contrast this to Olli and Christian who kiss like two people deeply in love would kiss, and both are both very attractive men. You could actually believe two men like this having a relationship in real life.
Really pleased to hear that Olli and Christian are the most popular couple on Forbidden Love. Hopefully this will encourage the writers not to do anything stupid like seperating this wonderful SOAP couple.
Psionyx...good point...why so many tv couples have to break up? And most of them are extremely popular couples who the audience almost beg for a happy ending, but hardly ever see their wish. You also notice that they always make one of the couples suddenly have a complete personality change and becomes this horrible person, thus manipulating the audience into disliking them and almost wishing for the breakup in the end. Roman and Denzi are an example of this type of character change. It was horrible and unecessary what they did to this very popular couple.
I also totally agree with you that Olli and Christian are the most famous gay couple worldwide if YouTube is anything to go by. I wonder if Jo or Thore are aware of how popular they are worldwide?
You guys are hard on Judith and Fabian
First, I'm disappointed to hear that the actor playing Fabian was not well recieved and will be leaving the show. I don't think he is ugly at all...I actually think he is quirky cute. Constantin is one note...he's just across the board attractive. He's exactly what you'd want if you were looking for a handsome guy. Fabian has features that you realize at different angles. It's not that he grows on you...it's that you see him and think he is attractive and understand why each time you see him.
And as far as Judith goes...I think she is suppose to be the diamond in the rough. She won the heart of a guy who was being chased down by a model. I think she is a very attractive girl. There was one episode where she cleaned herself up and she looked hot. But she's suppose to play the awkward beauty.
Verbotene Liebe is a very unusual soap
Verbotene Liebe is a very unusual soap. Compared to American soaps there is a much faster turnover of characters and storylines. On VL, hardly any one storyline lasts longer than 2 years.
On American soaps they want to keep something or someone who is popular at all costs. That either leads to couples being kept on for years and years and breaking up and making up over and over again till even the last fan is indifferent. Or one part of the supercouple leaves the show while they keep on the other part and have to find a new romance for them.
Meanwhile, VL is much more likely to write off both characters of a popular couple once their storyline is done and just replace the couple with a fully new couple. IF the storyline is done but they feel one character is still popular or has potential they usually kill the partner who is leaving, so the love story will stay untainted even if the remaining character moves on.
Because of this story structure most VL pairings can be neatly classified as either Chosen Supercouples or expendable couples. The Chosen Supercouples will be told in broad romantic strokes and the characters WILL end up together. Oh, don't get me wrong they will suffer and they might even have other partners for a while but the fans can pretty much be assured that the relationship will always be addressed and they will end up together no matter how long it takes. (for example the "classic" VL storylines are two characters who fall in love, then think they are siblings and have to split up; they try to date other people but it doesn't work; eventually they find out that they aren't siblings and get back together, leaving the show at this point; VL has done the very same storyline like what, three times now? See my point about them prefering to replace one story with the next rather than keeping the same couple on for a long time)
In fact the chosen couples are likely to end up together even if the fans dislike them. And all "intervening" relationships of a chosen couple can automatically considered as just serving the main story even if they feature cute and likable characters (if the interloper characters are popular they might get their own Chosen storyline with somebody else once the current storyline is wrapped up; an example would be Tom and Olli who were expendable because Tom and Ulli was the supercouple; that said, I still think that they got a fairly decent run for an expendable couple).
There are essentially two fates for chosen couples:
1.) one of them dies (surprisingly frequent on VL, sometimes it seems like about half the supercouples end that way; or at least 30 percent; please note that in the world of VL death is usually considered a good, *romantic* sort of happy ending for a couple because it cements the whole thing as a huge romantic tragedy)
2.) they leave the show together
Sometimes if there is a problem with the contracts of the actors there is a bit of dissonance and one will leave before the other. Usually because character A leaves to live in another city or country and then eventually, maybe a few weeks or months down the line, character B leaves "to live with A in Paris/Munich/Italy/whatever".
Meanwhile expendable couples and triangles can end up either way, are broken up almost at random. Could potentially end up together if the writers have nothing better to do.
The problem is that Ollian is a bit hard to read. To me they don't read like an expendable couple, but they don't read like one of the *drumroll* chosen larger than life supercouples either (not that they couldn't be, but just based on the type of scenes and the screentime and type of storylines they get; the chosen couples are usually nudge bit more bombastically melodramatic). Sigh. Which is why I wish it were possible to get an interview with some of the writers.
I do wanna say one thing. The lesbian couple of Susanne and Carla. I didn't think they were a great couple, but they definitely also had a lot of passionate fans. They got together, married, then had a lot of storylines about their kids (Susanna's kid was abducted, Susanna's son developed a crush on Carla; after that he fell in love with his teacher and started a relationship with her). Eventually they decided to have a baby together and went looking for a sperm donor. And that was the guy Susanne fell in love with which ended breaking up their couple. This sounds and very much is a very crappy and insulting storyline for any couple, particularly a LGTB couple.
But in all fairness, it played out a bit differently. Susanne started developing feelings for Lars. Carla found out and dumped her. Susanne then only entered a relationship with Lars after her relationship with Carla was already over. Lars and Susanne did consumate their relationship, but quickly figured out that they weren't right for each other. During the signing of the divorce papers Susanne pleaded with Carla to take her back but Carla refused. Susanne then left town a short while later with her daugther to move to Paris after a big fight with her father. And now speculation is whether Carla might join them at the end of her contract or get a new love.
(in short, if you want an happy ending for your LGTB couple, VL is among your best bets [please note that Olli dying in Christian's arms or vice versa is a happy end in VL universe, as is leaving the show together to live somewhere else] but even on VL it's not a sure bet; it really all depends on what the writers want and how they see the couple)
come on guys!!!!!!!
hey guys... why are we talking about endings?!?!?! isn't it pretty obvious (from the spoilers) that the writers have so much more in store for our couple... why discuss happy or sad endings now?!?!?
from the very, very beginning when AE introduced me to this wonderful show i always feared that something would go wrong with our boys.... but after soooo many wonderful moments the two shared... i have forgotten about the other shoe... a lot of readers told me to just enjoy these precious moments.... have we 'mos and gay advocates became toooo pessimistic? not wanting to get hurt so just expect the worst and hope for the best (or at least something better)?
i know.... a lot has been robbed from us gays... our civil rights, our friends from a terrible disease, our visibility on screen and in real life, our basic right to marry.... i guess we have been broken so much into pieces so many times that it's hard to just cherish what we have right now for we all know that they can - so easily - take it away from us.....
our poor fragile hearts... we still have a long way to go.... not just for our community to move forward... but... most importantly... for our own scars to heal.