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How far has gay visibility come? Remember the "summer of gay" back in 2003?I do.It seemed like we were finally coming into our own with shows like Queer eye for the straight guy and Boy meets boy didn't it?That prompted some people to come up with this notion that we were being over represented.John Stossel even did one of his "Give me a break" segments on it on ABC's 20/20 in which Bill O'Reilly can be quoted as saying "there's just too much gay stuff on TV".The creators of Will & Grace, Max Mutchnick and David Kohan, were also in that same segment, criticizing the rise in gay visibility, saying things like "If we keep churning out all of this gay programming it's going to come back and bite us in the ass" and "It's going to feel like the gays are taking over".
Max and David really irritate me.They irritated me with the years they managed to drag people along through Will & Grace without giving Will a real love life and their baby steps approach to gay acceptance.As dumb as I think they sounded in that segment, not to mention other interviews, they were right.There seemed to be somewhat of a backlash to what was perceived as, for lack of a better phrase, a gay uprising because that was also the year we got the supreme court rulings on sodomy and gay marriage which was also shown in that segment.As stupid as I think people who were made uncomfortable by all of that were with their "let's keep them in their place" attitude about gay people that's not really what this forum topic is about. As I said, people suddenly felt like we were being over represented as if there should some kind of limit.No, we were represented.Although Queer eye for the straight guy was a culteral phenomenon, it was still just one show, and ultimately proved to be just a fad as that whole metrosexual thing lasted for about 5 minutes and then the ratings dipped.I loved Boy meets boy(I have it on DVD), andra's meltdown notwithstanding, but there was never a follow up to that show anywhere.Those and just a few other things was supposedly us taking over America.It seemed to go South from there with shows like Love monkey, Emily's reasons why not, and The book of daniel that had gay characters getting canceled. Now that our visibility has started to increase again people aren't saying we're "over represented" so much as they're saying we're "everywhere".In my August issue of Out magazine there was an article titled "Are you being served?Has turning on mainstream TV become part of tuning into our identity?", and basically said something to the effect of "you can find us just about anywhere because we're all over the place", but ofcourse most of it was about Bravo and it's shows about so-called "queer professions".Speaking of which, this morning I went to Bravotv.com and watched a couple of videos with the cast of Flipping out at this years Outfest in which Ryan says someting to the effect of "I don't think we really need this gay genre of film because you're seeing more and more gay stuff in the mainstream".I can't argue that visibility hasn't gotton better than it used to be, especially from a historical perspective, but "everywhere?"Really? If there's so many gay people and storylines all over TV then how come I still feel unsatisfied?Here's my take on it.Yes, there's more, but in a lot of ways we're still shockingly in the same place.Bravo, the "gay without being gay" network that is so often cited as a big chunk of this so-called gay explosion, is made up of only reality shows.If i'm going to watch a reality show it's not going to be yet another show about hair, fashion, or decorating.The Queer eye guys weren't even the stars of their show.They were catering to the straight guy.How much of this explosion in gay visibilty is made up of gay assistants, secondary, or background characters you almost never see, or characters that are gay in name only, ect.?It's not just quantity.It's also Quality. Ryan saying we don't need a separate gay film genre is interesting because I can't seem to talk about gay media without at some point, however indirectly, grazing the topic of integration vs. separatism.That was also touched on in that Out magazine article.Assimilation, or separation?Increasing our visibility in the world, or creating a world of our own?How do we want to see ourselves?How do we want to be seen by others?How important is a character's sexuality anyway? I'm going to sound like a broken record because of all the times i've commented on this site about how much I love Here!, and think it's the best, but I do because it atleast tries to combine mainstream type shows with the gay aspect.I like mainstream shows because they cover the spectrum of genres like action, sci fi, ect., but a lot of their gay characters are still too often pegged into certain types of roles when they're even there at all(Heroes anyone?).LOGO creates shows for and about gay people, and although I love shows like Noah's arc and Rick & Steve:The happiest gay couple in all the world, it still doesn't cover the range of genres I like such noir, teens, ect.(Veronics Mars, or anyting on the CW anyone?)Here! atleast attempts to give us gay action heroes, detectives, ect.(Excuse me, action heroes and detctives who happen to be gay.)That brings me to my next point. I'm not saying their sexuality has to be the most important thing about them.In fact I think Here! does a good job of making it relavent without making it into an issue.whenever I hear people talk about mainstream gay characters it's always with this assumption that their only purpose is to help straight people feel more cormfortable with gays often at the expense of that character's love life, or being anything other than a stereotype.I want to be entertained just like anyone else, so that's not good enough for me.So, while it's important to push for more mainstream representation I feel my needs best being met by that niche market.I think there will always be a need and want for it because let's face it we're not in any danger of mainstream TV and movie studios rolling out things like the Donald Stratchy mysteries, or Hellbent anytime soon. So, how about you?Do you think we're "everywhere"?Some seem to think so.Do you think we'll get another gay dating show to go along with the glut of straight ones like a gay edition of The Bachelor?You think America will get as invested in Brothers & sisters' Kevin's relationship(should he ever get one) as they did Meredith and Mcdreamy's on Grey's anatomy?That, to me, would be real television equality, seeing Mathew Rhys and Luke Mcfarlane on the cover of TVguide as America's new sweetheart couple.Assimilation, or all gay?What camp are you in?Do you only watch the gay episodes of MTV's Exposed, or Next?Do you think the niche market is better than the mainstream? Submitted by homoguy563 (1237 points) (195 posts) on Wed, 2007-08-15 14:06. |
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There will continue to be a
There will continue to be a need for gay specific entertainment. There has been a long history of censoring or destroying gay history and it continues to happen.
http://www.infopt.demon.co.uk/suppress.htm
Until that stops I would not take my foot out of gay specific anything and put both feet in the mainsteam. Gay people have an interest in saving our history.
Gay people are not all over the media. We have made progress in how gay characters are portrayed. Not all of the gay characters on TV are stereotypes anymore. I can identify with a couple of them like Luke and Noah on As the World Turns.
What concerns me is the fading interest in reality shows. This is a big part of gay visibility. These shows helped me accept who I was and be comfortable the way I was instead of trying to comform to the effeminate gay stereotype that everyone wants/ expects gay men to be like. Even though many gay contestants are stereotypes or portrayed as such there are a few that are not. Those people make it worthwhile.
I don't like The Bachelor already so I don't know if a gay version would be any better. I wouldn't mind a gay dating show though.
I rarely watch the gay episodes of Next or Exposed because I don't know what some of those gay people are thinking. Some of them do exactly the opposite of what they find attractive in other people be it their clothes, behavior, or hairstyle. They wouldn't even date themselves. Some of them want a muscular jock boyfriend yet they have never been to the gym. It would be a lot easier to get a muscular jock if you hit the gym; don't they realize that? Here are two gay men that illustrate my point of what to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cp5E559m3KY
I think a gay TV couple can make it on the cover of TV Guide or a number of other magazines. The couple needs to be very hot, be very famous, be on for a while, attract a strong gay following or attract a good size following in general.
Evolution
I think Trikia nailed it...
It is all about the evolution of culture. I was shocked a few years ago when as a freshman in HS I went through a black culture exhibit in a museum in downtown Boston that had pictures of separate drinking fountains and restrooms for African-americans. I couldn't believe that this once existed here in this great country. We have come a long way since those days but there still are many race issues. There are still race bigots.
The same type of evolution is taking place and needs to take place with regard to GLBT issues. Not only on Television but also with gay rights and general gay acceptance. It seems painstakingly slow for those of us who are gay and want more representative programming. But it also seems to those who are resisting the change that 'We are taking over the world'.
Justin
Keep On Pushin'
I understand where you are coming from Justin, however when it comes to human rights I believe evolution is not good enough. The last time I checked, the USA (like Canada) was a secular, democratic and free society that tolerated different viewpoints, religions, etc.. In such a society minorities rights need to be respected. I am not demanding that the major networks immediately start producing gay-accurate (as opposed to gay friendly) shows. However, I find it incredible that with so many options on TV there are so few that show GLBT people as they really are. For those people that say we shouldn't try to push straights to fast, I retort why? Gays are hard-working, tax-paying, law-abiding citizens, why should we get crumbs while straights get a feast on TV? If some straights find GLBT programs offensive, then guess what, do what I do when I come across Gangsta Rap videos, bad reality TV, or Fox News, I CHANGE THE CHANNEL!
Cheers
JBE
Evolution isn't good enough, but how can we legislate what is?
I agree with you JBE that minority rights should be respected, but we have more than just legislateable rights on the table here. When it comes to television, we have sponsors and cable companies who both have to take the right and moderate right viewer dollars into account when they make program and channel sponsorship choices. We as a gay community need to speak with our wallets as well as our mouths. Actively support those companies that are gay friendly and don't support those that aren't, even if it means not buying something we really want. And then blog about it so that the mainstream press picks up on it so that not only the market dollar statement, but the message gets back to these companies.
But somethings are just going to take time. Just like with civil rights, its going to take a generation or two before the tide changes. In the meantime, we keep focused and revel in the little battles won. :)
2 Things
First, i remember the 60's in the deep south and the prejudice that existed, and still exists in certain areas. While things still are not perfect for African-Americans, they at least do have the same rights and are protected by civil rights legislation. The main difference I see is that laws were enacted and people were forced to recognize those rights, even if they disagreed with them in private. It is the opposite with the GLBT community where our rights seem subject to the will of the majority (not that it is a majority). Fundamental rights should never be put to a vote, especially when we pay taxes and shoulder the burdens of being a citizen just like the straight folks.
Second, Justin is right that if we support those who support our community, then the rest will slowly get a clue when it affects their bottom line. While it may be the case now that many advertisers will not sponsor a gay-themed show and use that clout to keep us oppressed (American Family calling for boycotts of Ford and Walmart), this would cease to be the case if more advertisers and program managers grew a set. Tell a merchant that gay programming WILL be shown whether or not they want to sponsor it and they will fall in line because they simply cannot and will not sit by while their competition gains market shares because they do advertise. Trust me, if programmers and station managers put their collective feet down, very little would change because it would affect their profits. Now if we could just find programmers and station managers with some balls....
Third, it is damned hard to type with a large, attention-seeking cat on your lap.
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
Time is on your side
Justin, and what will end up likely happening is your view of the future, especially in the USA. To use an aviation term I have less runway left then you do, I am older, less healthy (and probably not as attractive!), so my frustration with the lack of progress reflects those realities. However, like the civil rights movement (and I remember the 60's like they were yesterday) I believe there is a time and a place for kicking ass and not waiting. I like your ideas about boycotting companies that do not support us, if we add in our straight supporters (and there are more than we think) then it could a real difference. Apartheid did not last that long once severe economic sanctions were put in place.
Cheers
JBE
Optimistic
But you are correct. Eventually, we will have our rights, or wind up in concentration camps. My only problem is that with the former, I may be long dead before we do get those rights. I would prefer to be equal now. With the latter, at least I can go down fighting.
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
Still Invisible
It made me laugh when you quoted Bill O'Reilly saying there was too much "gay" stuff on TV. God forbid if up to 10% of the population should have some TV characters that they can relate to. I frankly don't include Will & Grace or Queer Eye for The Straight Guy (a show I wouldn't watch even with a gun to my head) as great progressions in gay visibility, since they don't challenge the hetero's views of gay people. Give me a show that dramatizes the struggles of a gay superstar athlete or of a gay couple trying to raise a couple of kids, then I will think real progress is being made. Maybe it is because I am HIV+ and don't feel I have forever to wait (or maybe it was the lousy day at work), but I don't feel we should be apologizing for demanding more gay characters with complex and "real" personalities (as opposed to sterotypes that don't upset the straights). I am tired of imitating Oliver Twist's plea to Mr. Bumble "Please sir can I have some more".
Cheers
JBE
Amen Brother
That's entertainment
I enjoy good entertainment. It doesn't matter what the nationality or sexual identity of the material. However, entertainment is largely driven by money and at often at the mercy of commercialism. Which is why a lot of things follow silly trends, fashion, etc.
I do think "gay" has finally reached beyond the "trend" stage and hope to see more shows with gay characters and situations. I don't care if the gay character is the lead, but do care how well they are written and portrayed. For example, I happened to catch the episode of GREEK recently that featured the gay character talking with his Dad. It was amazing to me how this college kid was able to have a loving parent that was encouraging him to come out of the closet to his frat brothers!! How amazing is THAT!?!!
I would say that my current top three shows on TV are:
(1) Ugly Betty (when I can: LOVE it every time)
(2) Who Wants to be a Superhero (the camp factor is amazing!)
(3) On the Lot (a reality show based on "who wants to be a Hollywood filmmaker)
I think the best show that has EVER been on TV so far has been the "TALES OF THE CITY" series. That show just blew my mind. The variety of characters and actors were all amazing, and the story just was soo juicy and I never wanted it to end. Each of the characters I found incredibly interesting and fleshed out. I just thank everyone responsible for that show. I get soft and gushy all over again just thinking about it!!! Of course it first aired in ENGLAND, but eventually got to the US via PUBLIC TELEVISION!!?!!
Of course I love it when a LGBT character is on a show, but it's not something that I seek out. I've watched dating shows like "NEXT" and laugh out loud because these people are soo obviously not as interested in getting a date then they are being on TV. And I'm quick to turn it off or change the channel if the show is too ridiculous or boring. I suspect reality shows aren't "real" at all. I'm sure there's material written in or slanted via the editing room.
The only kinds of entertainment that I choose to avoid are those that convey a strong sense of hatred. So I refuse to watch shows like "The Sopranos" and "OZ" because the situations are just gross to me. I don't care how good the actors are or how hot a guy is. Murder and violence in a real setting is just too disturbing, and I don't enjoy it at all. I also HATE war films for the same reason: it's too real, and I love life way too much. Sorry. I don't care how many awards a film or TV show received.
I think gay representation has come a long way, but we still have a long way to go. Whether it's for a niche market or the general public, it's important for EVERYONE to try and create quality entertainment with understanding and leave the hate, fear, and righteousness in the dumpster where it belongs.
Quality and inclusion over Quantity and isolation
I think it's also important to ask the following questions: How are we being presented? Where are we being presented?
Gay characters and gay plotsfor the sake of quotas or a message does not benefit a show or our community. Often if a story is forced it can cause resentment by people from other communites who are viewing the show. It dooms the character, the story and sometimes the show.
Visibility is great but how are we being presented? Are we always the kid toucher? The murderer? The home wrecker? The whore? The fashion designer? The stylist? The drug addict? Or are we the professional? The balanced family member? The proud parent? The good student? The athlete? I think the balance would be if we were all of the above. We can be the killer, the a$$hole, the hero, the husband, the partner, the drug addict, the confused teen.
My feeling is that more often than not we are the stereotype. On MTV we are the A&F zombie or the queen teen...if you're a lesbian you are sporty spice. On reality TV we are the sharp-tongued, bitchy queen who cannot be trusted. There are a handful of current good, quality gay characters on TV right now but often those characters are watered down and in most cases sexless. Kevin on Brothers and Sisters is a good example, he has great kiss scenes but look at the scenes, analyze them...notice how they are shot compared to a straight kiss scene.
I cannot stand the current stage of Logo, I think it's a total embarrassment as a channel but I'm glad it's there. However, it's important that Logo is not the only place we are seen. I'd hate for Hollywood and America to take the position of "They have their own channel, why are they showing this here?" Inclusion and not isolation is very important.
Current shows I like that are gay friendly: Weeds, As the World Turns, Brothers and Sisters, Ugly Betty, Greek, Degrassi, Sarah Silverman
Current shows I dislike that are gay friendly: Gay Straight or Taken, Rescue Me, Big Brother, Flipping Out, Rick and Steve
Health
There is absolutely nothing wrong with gay men looking like A & F models. I'm sure you have a collection of muscle men pictures.
I don't like the gay couple on The Sarah Silverman Program. They are symbols of some gay men's desire to be "straight" by not caring about their looks, hygiene, or health. I completely reject this idea. First, when did caring about your looks or hygiene become a bad thing? Secondly, the people that do this are not doing it for themselves they are doing it for straight people. They want to impress upon straight people that they can be "straight" too while distancing themselves from gay people. I'm very proud of the stereotype that gay men have good hygiene and care about their looks. I rather have high standards than low standards to reach.
We finally see a gay man leading something, that's why I like Flipping Out.
I love Rick & Steve; it's the funniest show on TV.
Complete ignorance...
...to think that by not falling into the gay stereotypes you are trying to be or act straight. That's such bull$hit. There's nothing wrong with Crombie Zombies but there is something wrong with us being presented as ONLY fashion whores or bitches. The guys from Sarah Silverman are no more trying to be straight appearing than the lesbians on L-word are trying to appear like sorority girls. We fall in all areas of society and all appearances. If you think gay guys only fit in straight societies stereotypes of us then that is your head issue. All I know is that the gay guys I go to school with and hang with enjoy jeans and t-shirts, very little hair care product and hanging out with friends. We're not obsessed with fashion or $$$ skin products. We're clean and enjoy being gay but don't need to dress a certain way or act a certain way to let people know. But to the point of this thread and several comments, when you just show the fashion slaves or the bitchy boys you're leaving out the majority of the gay community that is just your average everyday guy.
Finally get to see a gay man running something? Open Bar was 100% better and didn't try so hard at making us look like fools. House blessings with tarot readings? Freeze the person out? Okay....
I have no doubt you enjoy Rick and Steve, you're a fan of stereotypes.
Healthy Gay
Fashion and health are two different things. Nothing wrong with wearing jeans and a t-shirt. What is concerning to me is gay men neglecting their health, hygiene, and looks especially if it's to be "straight". You can be an everyday man and care about your health too. They are not mutually exculsive. Skin care, teeth brushing, showering etc are apart of a healthy lifestyle.
I never seen Open Bar, I'll have to check it out.
I'm a fan of positive stereotypes like being clean, healthy, and fit. Jeff Lewis wears t-shirts and jeans, is fit, uses little hair product, and takes care of his skin. He is quite normal in his appearance, he is not over-the-top in that regard.
Judging by your avatar which is of a muscular superhero (looks like Midnighter) I think we are in agreement on most things on this subject.
"Judging by your avatar
"Judging by your avatar which is of a muscular superhero (looks like Midnighter) I think we are in agreement on most things on this subject. "
Maybe not...
My use of Midnighter in my avatar, and it is Midnighter, has nothing to do with muscles....at all. I like Midnighter because he is 100%, without shame, GAY. In your face, no apologies - G A Y
You can be a fan of positive stereotypes (I wasn't aware we could choose which ones should be used) all you like, the fact is that for the full spectrum of the gay community to be reflected there has to be "unhealthy" gay men on TV. Gay men who don't get expensive hair cuts, wear pricey clothes or care about the latest celebs. Men like the couple in Sarah's show reflect gay couples that do exist. You think the average gay guy in the middle of Mississippi is anything like Jeff from Flipping Out?
Gay Men and Muscle
"You think the average gay guy in the middle of Mississippi is anything like Jeff from Flipping Out?"
No, but they should be. Even in rural areas gay men want well-groomed boyfriends with chiseled bodies. Just because no one in the area has a chiseled body doesn't mean gay men have to conform to that standard. Gay men should live the best possible life and that includes being fit and healthy.
"has nothing to do with muscles"
Come on. You pick a rugged, muscular superhero and it has nothing to do with muscles? There is nothing to be ashamed of if that's the case. Gay men love muscle, it's just a fact.
YOU like muscles...
Stop applying your likes, your level of vanity, to the entire gay community. Your ego is out of control. Gay men like muscles? So there is no such thing as a chub chaser in the gay community? Nobody likes a skinny twink? A couple like the the couple in Sarah Silverman would never exist? You live your life on a superficial level Evan and enjoy it to the fullest, it's yours to live. For me, the muscles are only an afterthought. I like the guy, what's in his head and heart, before I even pay attention to how buff his body is. Most vain guys are boring anyway.
You should really hit a pride parade and look around at the crowd.
Let's move on please
Ok, break it up gentlemen because this has now left the context of entertainment which is what this forum is about.Evan, not every guy has/wants to conform to the gay male architype.GayTVluver, there's nothing with that architype, or that level of vanity.Let me ask you something.Do you primp in the mirror before leaving the house?If so, you're vain too.
Caring about and paying attention to looks is a good thing, and doesn't make Evan superficial.He would be superficial if he ONLY cared about looks which I don't think is the case.Your saying "most vain guys are boring anyway" is the same as Evan saying "gay men love muscles".You took exception to what I guess you thought was him generalizing, but you just did the same thing.Let's just agree we have our own ideals about men and get back on track.
To reply...
No, I don't primp. I specifically picked a hairstyle that would allow me to get up, shower and head straight to class, or go to the gym, shower and head straight to class. Unless you consider combing your hair "primping". And..."most gay men" v "gay men" are not the same..."most" qualifies that it's not the entire community. "Gay men love muscles" is a blanket statement labeling the entire community and I know I'd take this guy over any gym rat and I'm 100% Mo'.
But to clarify, I never said there was anything wrong with that "architype" I was saying that it's not the ONLY portion of our community that deserves representation on TV.
Degrees of Musculature
"Gay men like muscles?" Most do to some degree from a swimmer's build to a bodybuilder physique.
"So there is no such thing as a chub chaser in the gay community?" Yes. A small group.
"Nobody likes a skinny twink?" Sure a few do.
"A couple like the the couple in Sarah Silverman would never exist?" They do and they need help.
"...I know I'd take this guy over any gym rat and I'm 100% Mo'." He's very cute and... well-groomed. I'd take him too.
If you want to continue this debate private message me. As homoguy said this is getting off topic.
Gay specific vs. gay friendly
I couldn't agree more with JBE.He articulated what I was thinking.It kind of sucks to be constantly beating on the door for more gay content.Sometimes it seems like people look for "gay things", or a so-called "gay sensiblity"(whatever that is) where there isn't any like when gay magazines were all over movies like The covenant, or Superman because we don't have a real gay superhero movie complete with big budget special effects opening in cineplexes nation wide.I think that's lame.I also think it's an example of the hunger I think is out there for something like that, so i'm not alone.
I like Dwiz, but he and I part ways on this becasue while he, like some gay people, don't care so much if he's catered to in that way i'm definately in the gay specific camp.I do seek out gay content and I care if the gay character is in a lead role.In fact, sometimes that's the only reason i'll watch a show.I wouldn't be watching Greek if Calvin wasn't gay because then it would just be another show about straight people's love triangles, drunken escapades, relationship issues and break ups and make ups.I can see that anywhere on TV where as gay characters and storylines like that are in short supply.I get that some people don't think that's the most interesting thing about Calvin, or they don't care, or whatever, but I do care because for some reason I can connect with a guy like him through that and I would like to see whatever he's got going on with Heath play out on screen.
When I see the glut of straight hook ups on TV there's a disconnect.However, when I see 2 guys kiss I instantly get right into that.You could argue that a character's sexuality is only a small part of them, but romantic storylines are often a big aspect of who they are especially on dramas.The difference is for straight characters it gets to get taken for granted, but when it's a gay character it gets down played by saying things like "it's not the most interesting thing about me/him".When you enjoy seing a gay character, and want to see that part of him play out on screen that gets mistaken for wanting to put emphasis on his being gay and make it all about that.That's not true, but I can't lie.The sexuality is important to me especially when it's attached to the type of person who's not usually seen as gay on TV because I want the whole package.
Like JBE said these days you kind of sound like an ass for saying, or acting like it matters, but I have to because I want more gay content and characters who break out of this mold they've been put in.If WE have this "who cares?" attitude then people the who make shows and movies won't care.You kind of have to make a big deal out of it because i'm not sure if those people at the top really care if we have ANY gay characters.So, if we don't care and they don't care who's going to actively try to put these characters on TV?Will we slip back, or get stuck with the status quo?
It's interesting Evan and GayTVluver brought gay men being in charge.That Out article also mentioned gay men as authority figures on Project runway(I don't know their names because I don't watch that show) as a sign of progression.I'm with GayTVluver on this one because I liked Open bar more than Flipping out because Jeff Lewis, and I kind of like him, is a head case.As for the Abercrombie & Fitch model vs. guys' guy thing, I'm with Evan.You can be both.I like to see hot guys on TV, and didn't really watch much of The Sarah Silverman program, but I do like Brian Posehn.I think he's really funny.
Well, I think i've established that gay trumps straight when it comes to my entertainment preferences.I know some people might think that's wrong, but I feel like it's ok to be like that because it's so stupid that we're still trying to break through these walls that get put between us and the great lead roles on great shows.I don't want to accept that and the occasional gay storyline here and there.Also, again I don't understand people who say "we're past this point, or that point", or "it's not an issue", or "who cares?".The day it truely doesn't matter you'll be able to see shows like Noah's arc and ads like that Levi's commercial on any channel, including the major networks, and not just the gay one.
What it Means to Be Gay
I have been reading these comments with increasing interest because they demonstrate perfectly one of the problems I have with the word "gay." To me gay is a word that states that I am emotionally and physically attracted to members of my own sex. However, for some gay people (and many straights), it seems to mean more, a "lifestyle" a "sensibility" or a way of acting, even a choice of careers. I remember years ago being in a bar and talking to a gay guy who said to me after finding out my interests (I am a so-called straight-acting gay) "are you sure you are gay?" I don't think he meant any harm in the comment, but my brain interpreted it this way "You don't belong, you are not one of us, you make me feel uncomfortable." Maybe it was my generation of gay people, but there was a definite, not so subtle pressure to conform to a certain behaviour ("bitchy queen" I call it).
In my life in Toronto I have met gay doctors, politicians (all stripes), senior bureaucrats, airline pilots, engineers, lawyers, as well as aspiring actors, hairdressers, waiters and interior designers. I have met more gay couples raising kids then you can shake a stick at. I have also met straight guys with kids that on first blush you would think "queer as a $3 dollar bill".
The fact is sterotypes de-humanizes people, it robs them of their complexity, humanity, and individuality. I don't think it is asking too much of the media universe to have at least some content that reflects LGBT's variety.
And finally to Evan, just because someone "acts straight" does not mean they want to be, that is just who they are.
Cheers
JBE
I agree
Masculine Gay Men
My 2 Cents
While I think it is a good thing for the media to be more inclusive of GLBT characters and their issues, I also find it hard to identify with many of those roles. While Will & Grace was obviously a major step forward in many aspect, I personally couldn't stand the show as there were no characters with which I could identify. The same goes for almost every show that shows GLBT characters in mainly stereotipical roles. Sure, the leads (not Grace) were gay, but that seemed to be the ONLY thing I had in common with either Will or Jack. I do understand why this is necessary to some extent as TV and films are about entertainment and oddities will usually catch people's attention and a gay character that is too "normal" just wouldn't get the same viewer reaction or ratings. It also seems to me that this is a way of playing it safe in terms of presenting a character that many less-enlightened straight people expect to see. They don't have to put a lot of thought into these characters as they usually either hate them or are disregarded as inconsequential, based on their own prejudices. They are not a threat because they are easily identifiable and thereby avoided or are ripe for a bashing. The straight-acting masculine character is more of an enigma to the straight folks as he could be, might be, that single contruction worker next door who might beat the crap out of them if he is harrassed or mistreated. People prefer enemies that they can identify, rather than those who might mingle undetected amongst them.
I take exception to the notion that if some of us aren't obsessed with the latest fashions, don't spend 7 days a week in the gym or don't spend $100 a week on haircare products that we are somehow betraying our gayness to placate the straight world. As far as personal hygeine, all I care about is that I bathe regularly, brush my teeth and my clothes are clean. I do clean up rather well and can do justice to a nice suit when the situation demands, but I am far more comfortable in a pair of jeans and sneakers and in most situations, comfort is the only consideration for me. It seems that the part of the reason for this obsession is the prejudice that exists in our own community. What I have noticed is that there seems to be an unwritten rule in some segments of the gay community that reaching the age of 30 is gay death and that youth and beauty are the only commodities (besides sex) in which we place any value. It is that shallowness and vanity that tells us we need to do everything in our power to look beautiful and 20 years younger than our actual age, at any cost. I'm sure the manufaturers of those products are laughing all the way to the bank. While the straight world also has its own obsession with youth and beauty, the gay community has taken this to new heights, or depths, depending on your perspective.
I am a very masculine gay male and if I had a dollar for everytime a fellow community memeber asked me if I am sure I am gay, I could buy my own island somewhere and retire. I always tell these people I failed the written test, but did great on my oral exam to be certified gay. I prefer Ozzy to showtunes, I hate to shop with the exception of certain items and products and I almost never have a straight person asking me if I am gay as they assume I am straight as well. This is not some act to curry favor, to hide my orientation or to blend into mainstram society, it is simply the way I am. My partner is quite feminine and when we are together, there is no doubts we are a couple and my orientation is no longer a mystery. I am not about to change my persona to make either the straight or gay community more accepting of me and if some feel threatened by my presence because I don't conform to stereotypical notions, then I would suggest this is their own personal problem and not mine. My advice would be to stop putting so much value on what others think.
Getting a little off topic here
I understand what you guys are saying, and while this is an interesting disscusion I think the focus is shifting from what I meant this forum to be about.It's more about the abundance of gay entertainment, or lack there of, and where we're best served.Let's stay on track.
I guess what I'm saying is...
People always over-estimate
People always over-estimate minorities, because they see them AS minorities. Whereas the race and sexual orientation of the majority is invisible.
But I agree the time has come for gay portrayals that are about things OTHER than being gay. I've written before, it'll be the next wave in GLBT entertainment. Gay superheros!
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Gay genre movies and shows
Those are my favorite movies, and the ones i'm talking about.After I saw Another gay movie, a gay teen sex comedy, at the theater I couldn't wait to get the DVD.It could ony be seen at a couple of indie theaters in the city where as American pie could be seen at anywhere.Also there's still not that abundance of it that I would where as straight teen comedies are a dime a dozen.There's one, or two in theaters now.I think they're called Hot rod and Superbad.I read that there was supposed to be a sequal to Another gay movie, I haven't seen anythng else about it.When is a new Donald Stratchy movie coming out?
How about a movie about a gay mma ultimate fighter, or a yaoi anime series, or a show about gay soilder and trying to live under "don't ask, don't tell"?Those are movies and TV shows I want to see, but no one's making them.Why not?The gay channels aren't even making them let alone the mainstream.I think The O.C. would have been way better if it were about Ryan hooking up with Seth instead of Marissa.LOL.Seriously, why is it such a challenge to make a character like Shawn from The 4400 gay?The only gay character that show has ever had was a street hustler who was killed in the first 5 minutes of an episode last season.
There was some mini contraversy because some marginal character you only saw every few episodes was supposed to be gay, and got uncerimoniousy bumped from Heroes.I think it would be unusually cool of NBC if Hiro and his friend, whose name I can't remember at the moment, were allowed to be more than just friends.I would count that as some real progress as opposed to another reality show on Bravo.