I wonder why you like Jack? Hmm. Is it because he is gorgeous? I remember hearing about a swimming record being broken at the Gay Games last year. It might have been Jack, I'll have to look it up.
I'll comment more on this later. My computer is acting up right now.
I just read his profile and he is very committed to the gay community. Jack is the one that broke the national record at the 2006 Gay Games. Look at how big he is. *drool* Jack is HIV+, can you believe that? JBE and Jack are studs. They totally changed my perception of what HIV+ people can acheive.
I'm impressed by the backgrounds of all the contestants. They are the most qualified of any season. We will see if it translates into stunning creations.
How many gay men are on this season? I counted five that I know of so far: Jack, Christian, Chris, Steve and Ricky. Is there any lesbians?
Steve is that creepy guy from last year's auditions that sat on the floor and named all the places he gets inspired including the bed. I thought he should have been picked last year instead of Bradley. I am looking forward to seeing his interaction with everyone.
...our community is falling over itself for the guy. After further review of Jack and various comments he's made I'll be withdrawing my pledge of rooting for him...I'll wait for the show. He looked promising through his bio (next to the other gays) but not so much now.
You have NO problem with body worshipping as long as the men are straight. You did this same thing a month ago. In that post you said we should see fat, slobs that are gay on TV because they represent gay people in the country. I figured you liked muscular men yet you denied it now you have posted pictures of STRAIGHT muscular men. None of those guys are fat, slobs. Either you are self-hating by wanting gay men to be fat because you are not attracted to them and you only want straight men to look good or jealous of gay men that are fit.
Anyway, I realized that picking favorites before Project Runway's season begins is useless. I picked Diana Eng (Season 2) and Robert Best (3) prior to seeing the first episode. They both bombed out.
1st...I think Jamie is a good actor and GREAT in that role and he is very attractive. Not only is he a good actor but he is VERY supportive of the gay community and his gay fans. That is what makes him sexy and earns him stars in my book, plus I wanted to be supportive of other people taking part in the thread. That's the first part. Second I never said that fat slobs should be on TV because they represent "gay people in the country", I said that the guy from Flipping Out doesn't represent the average gay man in Mississippi. I also said that there should be gay people of ALL appearances on TV because there are gay men of every type in our community. Not all gay men are gym bunnies and not all gay men are fat and unattractive. You are a f'in moron if you really read what I said to mean what you wrote. Third...I cannot think of any other openly gay men playing roles in SciFi shows besides John Barrowman and he was already mentioned. My issue with Jack from PR, you ass, has nothing...not one thing to do with his looks or his modeling...it's comments he's made in various things I've read around the blogosphere. My issue with the gay community in this case is the immediate body worship and appearance awe. And for the record...I'm actually very fit. I eat right and cycle as a hobby. You are one strange dude though is you think that gay men that are overweight are self hating...that is just stupid.
So Jamie appeared in a gay magazine and said he is supportive of his gay fans. Now we should fall all over him? What has he actually done for gay people?
Jack lives as a gay man. Jack lives with HIV. Jack raises awareness about HIV.
Famous gay people have to move mountains to earn respect from the gay community. After Jack made a couple comments (which you haven't mentioned) you didn't like, you no longer are rooting for him. His whole work advancing gay people from oppression is derailed because a couple comments. Hmm.
You are the people Jamie and his marketing team are going for. Those gay men who are willing to WORSHIP a straight guy if he says a couple kind things about gay people. Here we are after millenia of oppression by straight people yet gay people have to prove their medal more than straight people in how accepting they are of gay people. That doesn't make sense and it is all because of self-hatred.
Many gay people are overweight because of self-hatred and/ or low self-esteem.
about many but that was the case with me when I was a teenager. I used to curb my anxieties with butterscotch-ripple ice cream late at night (sometimes 2 bowls!). I find that in the gay community alcohol abuse and drug usage are also a sign of low self-esteem and self-hatred.
Some gay people may think that it is not a big deal that Jack is so open about his HIV status. I personally think it is for there is a shameful lack of acknowledgment about the disease in our community. Some days I feel like a leper among social outcasts. Recently I joined RealJock.com as a member and was shocked to learn that some people when asked about whether they practice safer sex respond "sometimes." What is that all about? Would you board an airplane that had a sign that said "This airplane is sometimes flown by professional pilots", I don't think so.
The gay community has to wake up and deal with HIV in a more constructive and mature way. Don't shun or try and ignore people in the community who have it, and don't run away from the fact that some people in our community are not being respectful to each other and themselves by always practicing safer sex.
That is my sermon for the day (can you tell I have preachers in my family tree?).
Evan, this is my last post about your assumptions of me...you don't even know me. But feel free to point out where I said anybody should fall all over Jamie. You pointed out that I gave him stars...assuming it was because he was attractive and I pointed out that I gave him stars for other reasons. I didn't say I'd wouldn't be rooting for Jack...I just wasn't going into it rooting for him like I thought I would.
Jack living with HIV is not a big deal to me. I know 4 people in my personal life who are HIV+, it's not uncommon for people to live active and healthy lives while having the disease.
It's interesting that you think obese people are that way because of self-hatred and low self esteem. The gym crazy for the gay community began at the start of the AIDS crisis because gay men didn't want to appear "sick". Plus many gay men go to the gym to avoid being seen as weak...and the vanity of clothes and hair products helps with their esteem. There's several articles about it at GayHealth.com.
I have no issue with you being focused on attractiveness, muscles or clothes, you should have no issue with me being focused on personality and respectability.
I'm not buying your excuse that you gave 5 stars to that post for reasons other than it was a shirtless picture of Jamie. You have rarely given out 5 stars to people that post comments to your postings.
"After further review of Jack and various comments he's made I'll be withdrawing my pledge of rooting for him...I'll wait for the show. He looked promising through his bio (next to the other gays) but not so much now."
I read that article about gay men with HIV/ AIDS building their bodies. It was an eye opener. As far as gay men without HIV/ AIDS, I think most build their body to look good or attract men or to stop being the victim of bullying or a combination of those.
Gay men who are (not on purpose) overweight either are self-hating or have low self-esteem. There is a very small segment of the gay population that want to be overweight (bears). Just look at AfterElton's Hot 100 you can see the desires of most gay men. None of the guys selected for that list are skinny or fat. All of them have some degree of muscle mass. Skinny and fat gay members of this site constitute a sizable number of users. That says something. Some gay men don't get the connection between looking at other men and their own body. If you are looking at muscular men (swimmer's build to bodybuilder physique) and you are not muscular, not a dedicated bear, or dedicated twink then there is something wrong. That something is self-hate and/ or low self-esteem.
When I met my boyfriend I had plenty of muscle and a six-pack. I'm the first to say that looking good contributed to me both feeling confident and attracting dates.
18 months down the line, we've both put on about 14lbs. He works away a lot so we indulge when he's at home - go to dinner, drinks. I stopped going to the gym to maximise my time with him when he was at home.
I'm back in the gym now because I was starting to feel sluggish and out of shape. I'd say I'm back in the gym because of low self-esteem (and a concern for my health), not the other way around. I'm looking great again but I know that my boyfriend loves me just the same either way. The way I look again now is just a bonus for both him and me.
Just my experience and one I thought I'd share with you :)
I was talking about before gay men meet. As you and celtic tiger pointed out apathy does happen whether someone is single or in a relationship.
I'm glad you are back in the gym but what about your partner? Is he back too? Physical attraction plays a huge role in relationships. You two should stay in shape for all the benefits it brings like longevity in bed and mood stablization. Working out only takes an hour a day if you want a standard buff body like the man in my avatar.
on people with HIV and body-building fascinating in terms of the underlying pyschological factors at work. I can honestly say it does not really apply to me but I can understand others with HIV reacting that way. When I was sick in the summer of 1995 my weight dropped from about 160 to 137 (a weight that I had never been before as an adult). Once the hepatitis went away I could not stop eating and my weight rebounded to as high as 173 (I should be no more than 162 according to my doctor). For 10 years I bounced between 167 and 173.
In the spring of 2007 when I started on an anti-depressant to counteract the side effects of Sustiva (an HIV med), my interest in life changed markedly for the better. I started an exercise regime that I have not abandoned to this day. My weight now fluctuates between 152 and 155, I have built muscle mass and feel great (except I still have trouble sleeping). For people with HIV it is doubly important to look after ourselves. We do not have the same luxury of indulging in alcohol, illicit drugs, or to become couch potatoes. I feel if I ever do become sick I will bounce back from the illness if I am in excellent physical and mental health (my brother and his wife who are both doctors agree).
"Many gay people are overweight because of self-hatred and/ or low self-esteem."
Never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by stupidity. You left out apathy. A lot of people just don't care, for one reason or another, about their health. Give them McDonalds and professional wrestling and they are happy little worker bees. Toss in religion and you can effectively control about 85% of the world's population. Bread, circuses and the opiate of the masses.
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
After reading his bio I am even more impressed with Jack. He tested positive in 1991 at the age of 22. I tested positive in 1995 at the age of 34. My age I think made a big difference in how I reacted to the news, if I had been 22 I am not sure how I would have coped. Secondly, in 1991 there were no wonder drugs on the near horizon, in 1995 protease inhibitors were just being introduced.
I have nothing but admiration for people like Jack who faced with terrible news do not roll over and give up but fight back. Swimming (and exercise in general) is a great antidote for depression. I should know, one of the HIV meds I am on (Sustiva) causes it, I take a med to counteract the depression, but I also exercise everyday to boost my endorphins, now I cannot do without exercise. A nice side benefit to my exercising is that my body is alot sexier for my life partner (thanks Evan for the compliment it is appreciated)!
I agree GayTVluver that at times the gay community seems obssessed with physical beauty. I would just say that men in general are very visual in the way they react to people. Straight guys react very positively to women with pretty faces and great bodies, and seem to ignore other attributes! Gay men are no different except for the gender. It isn't fair and other attributes are just as important, but I would rather have gay men exercising and eating well to look good then the alternative. Increasingly I see obese people (and children) in North America. It could lead to a drop in the average life expectancy due to the health problems that are associated with it. Go to Europe sometime, the only morbidly obese people you will see will be from North America!
The gay community seems obsessed with physical beauty because to a certain extent it has to be. After all, homosexuality is love of the same sex. As gay men, we are attracted to our own body-type, and therefore any self-criticisms we have are also passed on to how we view others of the same sex, who we are also attracted to. Straight guys can separate the constant attraction they feel to women from their body image because for them the two are separate. Our sexuality does not allow this, our views on male bodies are intertwined with our sexual attraction to them.
You never see a 600 pound woman in a thong selling beer or automobiles in a TV commercial. Humanity in general is obsessed with beauty and alsways has been. The only thing that really changes is our perception and definition of what is beautiful. Even today, there is no uniform standard for beauty. What I might consider attractive, others may not.
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
Jacob, I agree with 98% of what you say, but I do disagree with this statement. Men in their raw form sexually attracted at least in the beginning mostly because of physical attributes. The lion's share of us are attracted and stimulated visually at first. Hopefully after that something else about the person begins to attract us, but many men, gay and straight, simply are only attracted physically. Which is why many marriages go bust, they were based simply on sex and physical attractiveness. When that goes, so does the marriage.
is one reason why marriages fail, another reason is some people when they are dating are very careful about what aspects of their personality come out. After the marriage ceremony is over and the couple start living together, the real person emerges, and then things start unraveling. So gay guys out there that want to be in a long-term relationship, make sure you are your self when you are starting to know the other person, in the long-run you will both be better off.
Anticipation
I wonder why you like Jack? Hmm. Is it because he is gorgeous? I remember hearing about a swimming record being broken at the Gay Games last year. It might have been Jack, I'll have to look it up.
I'll comment more on this later. My computer is acting up right now.
He's attractive but...
New Project
I just read his profile and he is very committed to the gay community. Jack is the one that broke the national record at the 2006 Gay Games. Look at how big he is. *drool* Jack is HIV+, can you believe that? JBE and Jack are studs. They totally changed my perception of what HIV+ people can acheive.
I'm impressed by the backgrounds of all the contestants. They are the most qualified of any season. We will see if it translates into stunning creations.
How many gay men are on this season? I counted five that I know of so far: Jack, Christian, Chris, Steve and Ricky. Is there any lesbians?
Steve is that creepy guy from last year's auditions that sat on the floor and named all the places he gets inspired including the bed. I thought he should have been picked last year instead of Bradley. I am looking forward to seeing his interaction with everyone.
Body worship yet again...
My Suspicions Proven Right
You have NO problem with body worshipping as long as the men are straight. You did this same thing a month ago. In that post you said we should see fat, slobs that are gay on TV because they represent gay people in the country. I figured you liked muscular men yet you denied it now you have posted pictures of STRAIGHT muscular men. None of those guys are fat, slobs. Either you are self-hating by wanting gay men to be fat because you are not attracted to them and you only want straight men to look good or jealous of gay men that are fit.
Anyway, I realized that picking favorites before Project Runway's season begins is useless. I picked Diana Eng (Season 2) and Robert Best (3) prior to seeing the first episode. They both bombed out.
Evan, your assumptions make you look like an ass...
My ASSumptions are Good
So Jamie appeared in a gay magazine and said he is supportive of his gay fans. Now we should fall all over him? What has he actually done for gay people?
Jack lives as a gay man. Jack lives with HIV. Jack raises awareness about HIV.
Famous gay people have to move mountains to earn respect from the gay community. After Jack made a couple comments (which you haven't mentioned) you didn't like, you no longer are rooting for him. His whole work advancing gay people from oppression is derailed because a couple comments. Hmm.
You are the people Jamie and his marketing team are going for. Those gay men who are willing to WORSHIP a straight guy if he says a couple kind things about gay people. Here we are after millenia of oppression by straight people yet gay people have to prove their medal more than straight people in how accepting they are of gay people. That doesn't make sense and it is all because of self-hatred.
Many gay people are overweight because of self-hatred and/ or low self-esteem.
I Am Not Sure
about many but that was the case with me when I was a teenager. I used to curb my anxieties with butterscotch-ripple ice cream late at night (sometimes 2 bowls!). I find that in the gay community alcohol abuse and drug usage are also a sign of low self-esteem and self-hatred.
Some gay people may think that it is not a big deal that Jack is so open about his HIV status. I personally think it is for there is a shameful lack of acknowledgment about the disease in our community. Some days I feel like a leper among social outcasts. Recently I joined RealJock.com as a member and was shocked to learn that some people when asked about whether they practice safer sex respond "sometimes." What is that all about? Would you board an airplane that had a sign that said "This airplane is sometimes flown by professional pilots", I don't think so.
The gay community has to wake up and deal with HIV in a more constructive and mature way. Don't shun or try and ignore people in the community who have it, and don't run away from the fact that some people in our community are not being respectful to each other and themselves by always practicing safer sex.
That is my sermon for the day (can you tell I have preachers in my family tree?).
Cheers
JBE
No, they are not.
Evan, this is my last post about your assumptions of me...you don't even know me. But feel free to point out where I said anybody should fall all over Jamie. You pointed out that I gave him stars...assuming it was because he was attractive and I pointed out that I gave him stars for other reasons. I didn't say I'd wouldn't be rooting for Jack...I just wasn't going into it rooting for him like I thought I would.
Jack living with HIV is not a big deal to me. I know 4 people in my personal life who are HIV+, it's not uncommon for people to live active and healthy lives while having the disease.
It's interesting that you think obese people are that way because of self-hatred and low self esteem. The gym crazy for the gay community began at the start of the AIDS crisis because gay men didn't want to appear "sick". Plus many gay men go to the gym to avoid being seen as weak...and the vanity of clothes and hair products helps with their esteem. There's several articles about it at GayHealth.com.
I have no issue with you being focused on attractiveness, muscles or clothes, you should have no issue with me being focused on personality and respectability.
But regardless of your opinion, I'm done.
Spelling It Out
I'm not buying your excuse that you gave 5 stars to that post for reasons other than it was a shirtless picture of Jamie. You have rarely given out 5 stars to people that post comments to your postings.
"After further review of Jack and various comments he's made I'll be withdrawing my pledge of rooting for him...I'll wait for the show. He looked promising through his bio (next to the other gays) but not so much now."
I read that article about gay men with HIV/ AIDS building their bodies. It was an eye opener. As far as gay men without HIV/ AIDS, I think most build their body to look good or attract men or to stop being the victim of bullying or a combination of those.
Gay men who are (not on purpose) overweight either are self-hating or have low self-esteem. There is a very small segment of the gay population that want to be overweight (bears). Just look at AfterElton's Hot 100 you can see the desires of most gay men. None of the guys selected for that list are skinny or fat. All of them have some degree of muscle mass. Skinny and fat gay members of this site constitute a sizable number of users. That says something. Some gay men don't get the connection between looking at other men and their own body. If you are looking at muscular men (swimmer's build to bodybuilder physique) and you are not muscular, not a dedicated bear, or dedicated twink then there is something wrong. That something is self-hate and/ or low self-esteem.
RealJock
ExRx
GayHealth
Where does complacency fit into all of this?
Evan,
When I met my boyfriend I had plenty of muscle and a six-pack. I'm the first to say that looking good contributed to me both feeling confident and attracting dates.
18 months down the line, we've both put on about 14lbs. He works away a lot so we indulge when he's at home - go to dinner, drinks. I stopped going to the gym to maximise my time with him when he was at home.
I'm back in the gym now because I was starting to feel sluggish and out of shape. I'd say I'm back in the gym because of low self-esteem (and a concern for my health), not the other way around. I'm looking great again but I know that my boyfriend loves me just the same either way. The way I look again now is just a bonus for both him and me.
Just my experience and one I thought I'd share with you :)
Only an Hour a Day
I was talking about before gay men meet. As you and celtic tiger pointed out apathy does happen whether someone is single or in a relationship.
I'm glad you are back in the gym but what about your partner? Is he back too? Physical attraction plays a huge role in relationships. You two should stay in shape for all the benefits it brings like longevity in bed and mood stablization. Working out only takes an hour a day if you want a standard buff body like the man in my avatar.
I Found the article
on people with HIV and body-building fascinating in terms of the underlying pyschological factors at work. I can honestly say it does not really apply to me but I can understand others with HIV reacting that way. When I was sick in the summer of 1995 my weight dropped from about 160 to 137 (a weight that I had never been before as an adult). Once the hepatitis went away I could not stop eating and my weight rebounded to as high as 173 (I should be no more than 162 according to my doctor). For 10 years I bounced between 167 and 173.
In the spring of 2007 when I started on an anti-depressant to counteract the side effects of Sustiva (an HIV med), my interest in life changed markedly for the better. I started an exercise regime that I have not abandoned to this day. My weight now fluctuates between 152 and 155, I have built muscle mass and feel great (except I still have trouble sleeping). For people with HIV it is doubly important to look after ourselves. We do not have the same luxury of indulging in alcohol, illicit drugs, or to become couch potatoes. I feel if I ever do become sick I will bounce back from the illness if I am in excellent physical and mental health (my brother and his wife who are both doctors agree).
Cheers
JBE
Don't forget
"Many gay people are overweight because of self-hatred and/ or low self-esteem."
Never attribute to malice what can easily be explained by stupidity. You left out apathy. A lot of people just don't care, for one reason or another, about their health. Give them McDonalds and professional wrestling and they are happy little worker bees. Toss in religion and you can effectively control about 85% of the world's population. Bread, circuses and the opiate of the masses.
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
Go Jack Go!
After reading his bio I am even more impressed with Jack. He tested positive in 1991 at the age of 22. I tested positive in 1995 at the age of 34. My age I think made a big difference in how I reacted to the news, if I had been 22 I am not sure how I would have coped. Secondly, in 1991 there were no wonder drugs on the near horizon, in 1995 protease inhibitors were just being introduced.
I have nothing but admiration for people like Jack who faced with terrible news do not roll over and give up but fight back. Swimming (and exercise in general) is a great antidote for depression. I should know, one of the HIV meds I am on (Sustiva) causes it, I take a med to counteract the depression, but I also exercise everyday to boost my endorphins, now I cannot do without exercise. A nice side benefit to my exercising is that my body is alot sexier for my life partner (thanks Evan for the compliment it is appreciated)!
I agree GayTVluver that at times the gay community seems obssessed with physical beauty. I would just say that men in general are very visual in the way they react to people. Straight guys react very positively to women with pretty faces and great bodies, and seem to ignore other attributes! Gay men are no different except for the gender. It isn't fair and other attributes are just as important, but I would rather have gay men exercising and eating well to look good then the alternative. Increasingly I see obese people (and children) in North America. It could lead to a drop in the average life expectancy due to the health problems that are associated with it. Go to Europe sometime, the only morbidly obese people you will see will be from North America!
Cheers
JBE
The gay community seems
Not just a gay thing
You never see a 600 pound woman in a thong selling beer or automobiles in a TV commercial. Humanity in general is obsessed with beauty and alsways has been. The only thing that really changes is our perception and definition of what is beautiful. Even today, there is no uniform standard for beauty. What I might consider attractive, others may not.
"It's your will against mine and you will lose." Clint Eastwood - Heartbreak Ridge
Then how come Maxim sells so many copies?
Jacob, I agree with 98% of what you say, but I do disagree with this statement. Men in their raw form sexually attracted at least in the beginning mostly because of physical attributes. The lion's share of us are attracted and stimulated visually at first. Hopefully after that something else about the person begins to attract us, but many men, gay and straight, simply are only attracted physically. Which is why many marriages go bust, they were based simply on sex and physical attractiveness. When that goes, so does the marriage.
Justin
The cooling of the passion
is one reason why marriages fail, another reason is some people when they are dating are very careful about what aspects of their personality come out. After the marriage ceremony is over and the couple start living together, the real person emerges, and then things start unraveling. So gay guys out there that want to be in a long-term relationship, make sure you are your self when you are starting to know the other person, in the long-run you will both be better off.
Cheers
JBE
Jack's comments.