Survey: We Already Know Many Women Love Gay Men. Now Help Us Learn Why!

I just finished voting. In some cases I wish I could have replied to two answers and in some other cases I wish there was the 'Other' option.

Curious about the outcome!

I agree with Jude. I had two answers for many of the poll questions. Mostly, I enjoy watching and reading about romance sagas (regardless of the gender and/or sexual orientation), because love is love to me.

Don't get me wrong, I ALSO enjoy watching very attractive and talented performers portraying fictionalized characters falling love/lust with each other, because it IS hot. I actually enjoyed The L Word over Queer As Folk US, because I liked the portrayals of friendships between those characters better on TLW.

I could see why Bette was the Alpha Female and Carmen had almost every single viewer of the show (male/female, straight/lesbian/bisexual or gay) falling in love/lust with her. Ugh, I'm still upset with Shane leaving Carmen at the altar and that was over 2 years ago.

Love me less, but love me a long time - Les Chansons D'Amour

Will TPTB please find someone to HUG and LOVE NICK CHAVEZ?

I too wished for more than one choice, or 'other' on several questions.  Some of my reasons are here

http://ceares.livejournal.com/38208.html#cutid1.

It was written a few years ago and I'd probably expand this now.

That only talks about my love for slash though, and not my love for gay men, which in part has to do with an attachment to all minorities as fellow solidiers in the battle, in part to do with falling ass over teacup for a gay boy in the 7th grade, in part to do with my admiration for courage and fortitude in anyone and a lot of other parts.

So I guess in the end, my response is the facebook on...'it's complicated'. 

This question has been asked time and time again, and the outsider's conclusion (i.e. someone not a woman who reads/writes/vids/or otherwise enjoys m/m pairings) tends to be "it turns them on--it's the reverse of straight men loving lesbians." However, having been in fandom since I was 14, I can't tell you how many lesbians I have met who slash--I even dated one! So personally, I think that theory, though true for some people, is not the overall truth.

 

My personal theory is that it's because women are tired of the way females in romantic relationships are cast in our movies/books/tv. We're tired of seeing ourselves as fawning, weak creatures--the perpetual damsels in distress--or else rough and sexually over-eager.

 

By eliminating the female component, one of two things happen. Those two stereotrypes are eliminated, creating more of a balance, or if they are included, it's a man in their place, and thus it flips the traditional gender roles. In other words, it's satisfying to see more equal relationships or, if they absolutely must be unbalanced, we do not have to feel like either weak beings or oversexed vixens when we enjoy them.

 

That might not be true for everyone. Some women might have read this and vehemently disagreed. However, I feel that, for me at least, the answer lies in gender studies rather in "queer theory."

 

And, you know, it's hot. ;-)

and i love love gay men! yes i enjoy watching gay stories more than straight ones, i find two men making out incredibly hot! straights stories could catch my attention only if they are really really good. And i would never want to turn gay men straight or sleep with them,noway! i mean i want them of course,but in my fantasies i would like to have sex with gay man as another man not as woman,lol,i know it sounds completely crazy,isn't it? haha!

and one more thoughts about why straights women love gay men,i think the most important for woman in that kind of relationship (for me at least) that gay men could appreciate women as persons in first place and don't see them as sexual objects as most of straight men,their friendship always real cos they don't have on mind to have sex with you and pretend that they are really have interest in you as person while they just want to get on your pants.

I agree with Salon.com's Thomas Rogers, the fag hag of yesteryear -- the brash individualist who found comraderie with other marginalized persons (namely, gay men) -- has, in pop culture, devolved into a neurotic, needy succubus.

This trend got a mainstream voice with "My Best Friend's Wedding" (1997), found a base with "Will and Grace" (1998), hit its most egregious stride with "Sex and the City" (1998), and reached its logical conclusion in "The Next Best Thing" (2000), when the two friends actually sleep together. It's as much about misogyny as it is about homophobia -- the misinformed, "good intentions" variety, not the hate-crime kind. 

Pop culture has simply supplanted the sassy, forthright black or latino helping character with an equally quick-witted, though noticeably more white, gay one. It's exploitation, pure and simple. 

In the real world, there are two kinds of fag hags: (1) the women (typically hetero) who seek out gay males to add them to their collection of fashionable must-haves, and (2) the women (of all sexual orientations) who enjoy the benefits of a relationship that's free of the constraints of hegemonic masculinity.

The first kind of fag hag idealizes gay male sexuality and fantasizes about including herself in the picture -- meaning, she loves the slash and the shipping, but she's not titilated by gay male porn. The second kind relishes the possibility for companionship and intimacy without the intrusion of sexual attraction, which is also why gay men enjoy female friendship.

As a lesbo with crazy love for my queer brothers, I take issue with straight women (some, not all) who believe gay men are just women who happen to have penises, try to rack up cool points by infiltrating this decade's trendy minority, or buy the popular myth that all gay men are of the fey gay variety. 

At the end of the day, weren't Carrie and Grace the least liked characters on their respective shows? 

Yeah, in a lot of instances I would have chosen multiple answers.  I keep up on LGBT issues because for whatever reason the cause has struck a chord with me and I would defend gay rights to the death.  Actually, I do know the reason.  Human rights.  Plain and simple.  Right now gays are one of the last groups that people feel its okay to deny basic human rights to, and I hate it. 

However, there is a total shallow side to me too, and certain movies, tv shows, etc are just plain hot.  I do think that two attractive men together is pretty much the hottest thing around.  I find it more of a turn on than watching a man and a woman.  I read an article about a year ago, and I wish I could find a link for it, but it basically posited that straight women like watching two men because there is no woman in the mix representing competition.  Both parties in the scene are attractive to the viewer.  I think there's probably some merit to that argument, but who knows.  I have plenty of straight female friends who DON'T enjoy watching two men together, but honestly, I don't know if it's because it's not their thing or because of latent homophobia.  Sadly, I had a couple of friends who hid their faces during the sex scenes in Brokeback Mountain in an "ewwww" sort of way, so clearly they have other issues they need to deal with.  

I'm so interested to see the responses when this is done!

 Out gay novelist, Tom Dolby and Melissa de la Cruz have a book, "Girls Who Like Boys Who Like Boys" that they co-wrote on this very subject.  While directed primarily to Melissa's Young Adult reader's It has some good information and insight for on an under served readership.

 

hat's all I am saying... 

INSIDEGUY

It is very interesting as to why (open minded) women and gay men share a sort of bond....looking forward to the results!

Now that it's asked: I actually don't have a clue why I like the gay community so much. I couldn't possibly give a rational reason for it. I grew up with lots of gay men around and they were all very different men. Some I loved, some not so much.

I'm easily bored with sexual/romantic scenes in general: straight or gay. I think it's lazy story-telling.

I do like popculture and I like tv-shows and movies that reflect the diversity that's in my own life. I once went on a camping trip in the Loire valley of France: there are only straight white people there. Took me a day to figure out why I was feeling so creeped out.

Then there's the obvious reasons for being an ally: believing we should all have the same rights and treat eachother with decency and respect. But I'm not sure if that's the big reason for loving an entire group of people who are so diverse themselves.

I just happen to like a lot of gay men and have been given lots of positive examples of gay men all my life.

I'm a straight woman whose best friend of 34 years was a gay man.  I lost him to AIDS 3 years ago and not a day goes by that I don't think of him.  I was married for 26 years and my husband at that time didnt know even half of what Craig knew about me, because Craig took the time to get to know who I really was, the now ex didn't.  I also think one reason women like gay men is that they understand what it is to be an outsider or on the fringes of society and they more accepting of everyone.  Most of my daughters male friends are gay, and she hangs out at one the local gay clubs.  My mother was not very happy about this, but as my daughter said if she goes to the gay clubs she can dance and have a good time, but if she goes to a straight club she sits all  night.  She is heavy, so none of the straight guys will ask her to dance. 

I also think gay men know how to have a good time, have fun and play.  Most straight men won't allow themselves to do that.  In addition, I think gay men for whatever reason have a much better understanding of women than straight men.  I wish the straight men would get a clue and take lessons from the gay men on how to treat a woman.  Gay men are willing to be vulnerable and let you know them on an emotional level that most straight men won't.  I was married to a really good man, but he could not be there emotionally for me or even for himself and usally didnt have much at all to say to me.  I decided 26 years of that was enough.  I wish I could find a straight man who has all the characteristics of my friend Craig, except he would be straight. 

Another thing that I personally noticed about my friend Craig and his friends were they really had a sense of community and connections with one another.  Craig is originally from Texas, but the last 25 years of his life he lived in San Diego, so that was basically his home when he died.  He had such a supportive group of friends that were there for him until the end.  Craig had also decided that he didnt want a funeral, couldnt stand the funeral talk.  You know "Doesn't he look good?", "Aren't the flowers pretty!" etc.  Instead he threw a Celebration of his life for his friends.  We had a dinner, and dance.  He asked my daughter and his nieces and nephews to sing.  People he had worked with more than 20 years ago wrote things they wanted read at the celebration.  We had it in Texas where his family lives, but there were quite a few of his friends who came in from California for the Celebration.  It was exactly like Craig wanted it to be, and such a testament to the person that he was.  He wanted us telling funny stories, laughing, dancing, drinking, etc. instead of crying.  I'm just now able to talk about him without crying.  I never knew you could miss someone so much or that grief could be such a physical feeling.  For the first few months every morning when I woke up, as soon as it hit me that Craig was gone, I felt like someone had literally ripped my heart out. I'm better now and I know Craig would be kicking my ass for crying about him so much.  I just feel so blessed that he was a part of my life for the length of time that he was.  I was sure we were going to get to grow old together and be goofy old people, but it just didn't happen.

So I guess my personal experience colors how I feel about gay men, but there are any number of reasons woman love gay men.  Sometimes it is just hard to explain.

 

There were many times in that poll I wanted to either check off multiple options, or was just thinking "it's not that simple..." 

I have many gay friends, including gay men, bi women and lesbians, and I do consider myself a straight ally and am very interested in equal rights, etc.  I don't want to sleep with my gay friends, nor do I think of them as objects on display for my fantasy.

At the same time, I do find two men sexier together than necessarily a straight couple, for the bonus eye candy. The key here is that is a fantasy -- in real life, I'm not fantasizing about the actual gay men around me.

I think that a lot of women who have grown up aware of slash are aimed in that they are (generally) written by women.  It's women writing fantasies for other women, and that's a bit different than gay men writing a world/gay couple or straight men writing a world/gay couple.  There are intersections, certainly, but it's not automatic that I love a gay movie or a gay couple in fiction.  If more women, for example, were in charge of writing TV shows and movies, I think we'd see a lot more homoeroticism and slashiness (without the backpedaling of humor) and likely a lot more romantic gay couples on screen.  Whether they'd work for gay men, I don't know, and I'd bet like with yaoi manga, they wouldn't always.  By the same token, I was never a fan of Sex and the City or Desperate Housewives (both about bunches of women overseen by a gay man), partly because it never quite resonated with any of the women I knew or know.  

There are times when a story will work for everyone (Brokeback Mountain, for example) but I do not think the appeal of gay/bi men as friends and as fantasies can be mingled too much (which is why I thought that article about vampires being replacements for gay men was...incredibly wrong-headed and rather offensive to a whole slew of people, not the least of which the women and teenager girls who enjoy titles like Twilight and have so many people puzzling over why.)

Thanks for asking us!  Too rarely people draw conclusions without even bothering to ask, so it's nice to see discussion.

(Also, I mistakenly voted for the wrong couple in my anwer -- is there a way to fix that?)

These were interesting comments to read. I seem to agree with most of the other people. Yeah, two guys making out is hot, for obvious reasons. But, it is more of a fantasy thing. I don't actually want to have sex with my gay friends, or even go out with them. 

And I don't know why, but I have always been a straight ally, of sorts. I think it is a mixture of having awesome, open-minded parents and my own personality.When I was really little, I remember hearing about how the blacks were treated before and during the Civil Rights movement, and I knew that if I was there, I would have been fighting for equal treatment. When I got older, I started to realize that it was still going on, but with a different group of people. I remember in like... 6th grade, I think... a girl had been bullying me for a while, and one day she called me a queer. I was angry, and fed up, and said back to her "So what if I am?". I wasn't then, and I am still not, but that was my first experience with stupid homophobia, and I was pissed off, to say the least. So, since then, I have been quite passionate about the issue. 

Another reason is that my best friend is gay. I met him in middle school, when he was a new kid. We bonded over an EVIL teacher, and became close. In the beginning of 9th grade, he came out to me. Shortly after that, he got a boyfriend, and became public to the school. Unfortunately, that is when the crap storm known as Prop 8 started to take hold, and our school went crazy. I live in California, and it was a huge issue. There were actual fights that broke out, and I think I saw and felt more harassment in the couple months leading up to the election than I have at any other point in my life. Seeing my classmates taunt, yell at, throw things at, and eventually physically attack my best friend, myself, and others, was sickening. Now everyone has moved past that, but it has really made me a much stronger ally. 

And I don't think women like Twilight because they like gay men in particular. I think they like it because they like charming, handsome, strong men. Period.  

Ha, sorry for the essay. =]

I mean, SING

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELaLrS-KDJo

 

 

I'm a straight woman and personally, I don't get the whole vampires and wanting to have sex with a gay man thing. First off, I'm not into the whole vampire thing. I'm not into Twilight, don't watch vampire shows or movies and secondly, I don't want to have sex with a gay man. As a woman, when I'm with someone, I want him to want me and want to be with me as well and a gay man wouldn't. I think part of the reason why I'm drawn to gay storylines, is because we don't often get to see them on TV and they're usually very angsty at the beginning and then very sweet and I love a good romance, but, there are gay characters or pairings I don't like just like certain straight pairings. It really depends on the couple or the character. As for everything outside of TV, one of my best friends in high school was gay and we would talk about everything all the time and it just doesn't make me uncomfortable, as it shouldn't. I do think two guys together is hot though. I'm a girl who likes guys, so when there's two, that's just even better, but I still don't want to have sex with gay men.

The question of why am I, a straight woman, interested in gay men is something I’ve asked myself  before, and for the most part, I really don’t know.  That being said, I do find sex between two men to be very sexy.  Two hot men – what’s not to like?  Plus, it’s different.  It’s the rare TV show or movie that doesn’t feature a scene of a hetero couple in bed.  It’s just no longer interesting.

When I think back to the first gay themed movies I saw, I’d say that my motivation was to learn more about a community that was foreign to me, and there was also the thrill of seeing something a bit naughty.  (I was raised catholic.)   I also agree with the comments about the gay relationships being appealing because both partners are on equal footing.  While I think there are fewer instances of the helpless female on TV and in the movies, it still happens, and then there’s also the extreme opposite – the strong female who ends up being portrayed as the shrew.

I would also like to mention that for me, I’m just as easily turned on by a hot gay man I see on TV as I am a hot straight man.   I think that Robert Gant and Patrick Dempsey are both yummy.  One is gay and the other straight.  Is either one of them going to come knocking on my door and whisk me off to “happily ever after?”  No. It’s all about suspension of disbelief.  Neither of those actors are in relationships with the people we see them with on TV – it’s all fantasy.

As for my real life gay friends, I enjoy spending time with my gay friends because I get the man’s point of view without, as AbbyT commented, “expectations.”  It’s a bit like spending time with my brother, only without the sports obsession.  (I know, I know, plenty of gay men are sports fans, just not the ones I know.)  I learn a lot from my gay friends and from AfterElton.  Many of the people who post on AE are so open and honest about their experiences, it’s made me step up in the fight for equity.

Then again, maybe my interest is in my genes.  I’m pretty sure that the first gay movie I ever saw was Making Love, which I watched with my mother.  And who was it that told me about Homo Radio? (http://www.wrpi.org/schedule)  My Mom and Dad.  Yes, that’s right, my 70-something parents attend Sunday mass and then go home for a bit of lunch and Homo Radio.

You never know.

 

Like Kaci mentioned above, a huge reason I enjoy gay pairings is because of a dissatisfaction with the roles women have in TV and movies. Clingy, shrill, weak, baby-obsessed... none of these are things I am or aspire to be. Since it generally doesn't occur to writers to give guys those traits, they are way more pleasant to watch.

There's no danger of a woman being objectified in a love scene if she's not there. It can be very distracting to watch hetero couples with the baggage of being a girl and a feminist, because there's often a very narrow role women are allowed to fill, a very specific body type, etc. No woman = no dissonance. 

Bonus: with two guys in a love scene, one often ends up in the more submissive role by default, which is wicked fun to watch. Can also be great to watch guys struggle for control.

So a big part for me is subversion of gender roles. But also: HOT. Nothing better than two people you're attracted to having the sexytimes.

Huh, more or less the only question I had exactly one answer for was that about my age :D

Um - I voted - but a bit hesitantly because my answers do not really represent what I think.

So I'm going to elaborate a bit (hehe)

Adam Lambert - an interesting choice would have been: it turned me on because he is hot and it was easy to ignore the woman. I mean - come on- she only posed for the camera while some dude was sniffing at her somewhere. Hot? triggering our phantasy? They didn't even look at each other once! One very staged almost kiss, both had their eyes closed. Goodness, no!
I read about some women who make pornfilms aimed at straight women. They say the most important thing to "get" women is to display a relationship between the man and the woman. With looking at each other, talking, joking, endearments.  Showing how much the woman enjoys it etc etc etc. And for me that's true :)
I'm no fan of Lambert - but if I was I guess i would've found him equally hot in the pictures if he inspected (that's what he did, right?) a rubber doll. That's how important she was in the pictures. I would even guess all the fangirls would have prefered him alone there.

Am I interested in male/male pairings because I want to have sex with gay men?
No! What made so angry about that assumption is actually a cliche. Like a gay fave of mine once wrote: "It is a cliche that most cliches are true, but then like most cliches, that cliche is untrue"
the cliche I'm thinking of is that in a man's view  the main course is having sex - while for a women, the courting (= fantasizing about pretty male celebrities = reading gay erotic literature for example) is the main course. And having sex is an additional dessert that's not necessarily on the menu and even if it is - it can be easily skipped. I'm exaggerating a bit of course - but that IS one of the main misunderstandings in female-male realtionships. It leads most likely to frustration on the men's side (she gets what she wants, he doesn't) and in the worst case to such things as date rapes. 

Why am I interested in male/male pairings:
I like erotic/romantic gay male literature.
Of those I like the same kind of stories that I also like in straight erotic/romantic literature but it's easier to find them. Mainly because: with straight stories I really want/have to be able to identify with the woman (and usually can't) while I'm far more tolerant with a gay guy. I can more or less chose with whom I identify. One, or the other (or the third) or all or none. And I know I'm never going to know how it will exactly be to be a man - so even more room for tolerance and imagination (imagination is a very important point here)

But on the other hand, I don't like all gay stories. The ones where two muscled hunks are duelling with their 14 inch cocks right in the second paragraph? I happily leave them to someone else.

And while I tend to read them, I consider gay stories where two men behave like the most clichéd straight couple a VERY guilty pleasure. (I don't want to dig into that...)

So all in all I would say male/male erotic literature is my equivalent of porn. 
 (When it comes to porn I prefer a certain kind of gay porn, too. But not much and maybe only because I haven't found any straight porn to my liking yet)

Why am I generally interested in gay things?
I don't know. Accident I guess. I started to read Klaus Mann's diaries when I was 14. They intruduced me to Isherwood.
And I was reading a lot of Marion Zimmer Bradly because she was fashionable at that time - and one of the biggest fag hags in history of literature, wasn't she? Wasn't her husband gay? She's still the only one I read who almost believably got a man pregnant.
Oh, and reading Ralf König comics of course. Very important in my "gay" education :D

I like quirky films and a couple of gay films also were quirky (torch song trilogy, parting glances) - so those two still rank very high in my best film ever list. As does Beautiful Thing because I like small and simple lovestories. But it's not as if I would actively search for every gay film out there.

For all I have straight equivalents. So it's the content that counts not the "gay"-tag on the outside.

I've watched the odd soap-opera with a gay storyline (Hollyoaks with John Paul and Kieron) - but mainly because I had the hots for the guy who played the priest. He is straight in real lilfe but even so I would NOT want to have sex with him in reality either.
And I don't check youtube for other gay soap-stories.

I like a couple of celebrity gay men, maybe even more than straight ones - but I wouldn't find any of them attractive in real life (for example John Barrowman - he is just fun to watch or Stephen Fry - whom I adore for various reasons. He is the only person I would say I am a "fan" of)

I am german but I read After Elton because there was a time when I searched for "barrowman", "torchwood", "project runway" and a couple of other things - and always ended up here. Finally i decided to stay ;-)
There simply isn't or wasn't (well in germany at least) a similar site aimed at women that wasn't completely brain-insulting.

Which leads me to the last point: am I here/interested in gay politics because I am an ally? Hm. Am I interested in gay politics because I want to support gay rights? Hm.
Yes and no.
Yes - because: yes. Every thinking and feeling person should be.
No - because I think you should rather be OUR allies than the other way round =) .
Because in my eyes - the common homophobia is based on misogyny. Maybe not homophobia of the worst religious kind and not misogyny of the worst kind - but you know: the common one, the one the common schoolkid has, the one the common banker has, the one the common housewife has but shouldn't have: All the things women do and like is inferior to all the things men do and like. Ask parents what they would prefer: their daughter behaving like a boy, or their son behaving like a girl? What is more ridiculous: figure skating or football. Knitting or DIY. Barbies or toy cars and so on and so on.
The common homophobia does come down to: it's endangering and undermining male superiority when a man "degrades himself" to "be the woman" while it's considered as impertinent when a woman dares to take on the superior "male" role. it still is, sadly.
It's the base of gay panik jokes in films as well as the base of gay bashings.

The more equal women and men are in a society - the less "reason" there is for this kind of homophobia.
You won't get rid of homophobia without getting rid of the belief in male superiority first.
So me being a gay ally is quite selfish ;-P

I'm a straight (married, early 40s) woman who has been fascinated with, drawn to, and moved by relationships between men, both real and fantasy, for as long as I can remember, so I've spent a lot of time thinking about this issue - making some effort to understand why I love slash, why I am so interested in and drawn to "real" gay men and relationships, why I am such a passionate straight ally - why GLBT causes matter so much to me, why I'm willing to do so much for them, why I feel such strong...empathy, if it isn't presumptuous to say that.

I've never come up with any single overarching reason. I've concluded it's just really, really complicated, and I'll never fully understand it. Sometimes I've even wondered, even though it's wildly, bizarrely out of character for me to entertain such a thought, if  perhaps I was a gay man in some prior life - it certainly feels like there's some bit of gay man buried inside me!

Of course there's the hot factor, and I don't want to minimize that or pretend I don't find the thought of two men together impossibly sexy - though in the most voyeuristic way; I have never had even the slightest desire to have sex with a gay man or to insert myself into sex between gay men. No way - adding a woman, even myself, would eliminate the appeal. And two men kissing? Hot, hot, hot - but also, to me, always so incredibly...affecting. Beautiful and moving, even if it is just sex!

But that stuff really only the tip of the iceberg; the draw goes so much deeper. Hotness wouldn't keep me glued to AfterElton for...well,  embarrassingly long periods of time (though I've mostly been a silent lurker thus far!), or volunteering for all sorts of GLBT groups, or gravitating almost exclusively toward shows and movies and books that feature gay characters, or surrounding myself with gay friends.

So why? Well, I agree with a number of the insightful comments above. In particular, I see some sort of distinction between my attraction to slash and my draw to "real" gay men. Slash is fantasy - it really is largely women writing for other women, and it is not, to my mind, accurate to describe it as truly "gay," even though of course it has gay elements. Even graphic slash isn't the same as gay porn.  I've known gay male slashers - but gayness does not make someone a slash fan; there's another element, a certain fannishness, that's required. 

So I think the reasons underlying a love for slash are not necessarily the same as those that underlie an attraction to "real" gay men, relationships, and issues (and perhaps actual gay relationships in entertainment, like Kevin and Scotty, straddle the line?). I'm not sure the two always go hand in hand; slash is fantasy, and it's about subtext, and again, there's that "fannishness" that's a quality I find in slashers, but not everyone has it.

But as for liking, being drawn to, "real" gay men...there are the rational reasons: the fact that, as one commenter said, they understand what it's like to not be at the top of the straight male power dynamic (though of course I've met sexist gay men!). There's the wonderful ease of being able to be around men without worrying about anyone trying to get in your pants, no sexual pressure, and also no feeling of - I'm not sure I can articulate it; just the way you have to be aware when you're around straight men. Going to gay bars now with my gay friends is astronomically more fun than any of the club-going at "regular" places that I did when I was younger. Many gay men, or at least the ones that like to hang out with women, seem to have more empathy, more ability to talk and express themselves, more ability to relate to women than many straight men.

Another commenter pointed out the amazing sense of community and connection that characterizes the gay community.  I sometimes find myself so unattractively envious of that; it's so appealing to me, and I just want to be near it, even if I'm an outsider.

All of this enters into it. But the parts don't make a whole, and I feel, well, amazingly incoherent and inarticulate, for me at least, but I really just can't do much better. I don't know the reasons why; it's so hard to quantify something that's so deep inside me I can't even define its limits. I mean, I am a fierce and passionate straight ally (and that certainly extends beyond gay men, and I do have a very close group of women friends, more than half of whom are lesbian and bi), and yes, of course, it's a matter of human rights and civil rights - but there are many important causes out there, many involving human rights. Why does this one speak to me so very loudly that it drowns out almost all the others? Why has it always? Why have I always been so moved and affected by the sight of two men holding hands, felt so strongly, even before I understood anything about the politics of it, that such a thing was beautiful, and been so confused and angry, even when I was a young girl, that people could find it otherwise? I just don't know. It's just part of me, and always has been - impossible to explain to some people, but also impossible, and unthinkable, to destroy.

But I'm grateful to the gay men I've known who've let me be part of their lives and who've shared a bit of themselves with me - including those here at AfterElton.

 

In thinking about this topic, and reading other readers' responses, I've come to the conclusion that I'm shallow. I don't have any political reasons for enjoying watching gay couples on tv, movies and in books.  I just like watching good looking men, and the more the better.  Would I enjoy Bo and Charlie as a couple as much as Oliver and Kyle? No.  I wanted to see Kyle and Oliver together, at least initially, because I find them both attractive. Why do I prefer to see two good looking men than a good looking woman and man?  I do think that it's because when I see a good looking woman on tv I inevitably compare myself unfavourably to her.  In a sex scene with a woman in it I do think about how I would look in that scene.  Getting an HD tv recently has really ruined any man/female sex scene for me.  All I can do is imagine how I would look in HD (shudders!). When watching two men I can remove myself from the scene and just enjoy watching them.  I'm not usually thinking about being with them, but just watching them.  And to be perfectly honest, the idea of anal sex is exciting, and although a possibility in straight sex, it's pretty much a sure thing with two men.

 As for the enjoyment of vampires on tv/books, I don't think, for me at least, it has anything to do with wanting a gay man.  Although I enjoyed most of the Twilight books, I am much more interested in the werewolf pack than the vampires. I haven't seen the movie, though, so that's based on reading and imagining.  For True Blood, I'm interested in the vampires.  On a sexual level, I'm interested in Eric in whatever he does because he's good looking and dangerous.  Although I do not find Bill attractive at all, I am turned on by him when he bites Sookie or drinks her blood.  It seems that there's something about the sucking that gets to me.  So, I guess for vampires I need the visual (movies, tv) for it to work.

I don't find Adam Lambert all that attractive so the cover shoot wasn't that interesting for me. I would be more interested in the photos had he been with another man because that man would most likely be a model who would be great looking and have a great body.  It would be the model who would be the one to watch for me.

I think there's a difference between why I like gay characters in books/tv/films and why I like slash fanfiction. I can't quite put my finger on the former, but as far as fanficion goes, it's more a comment on the lack of good female characters in lots of the things with active fanfiction communities. If there manages to be a string female character in most tvshows/films, there usually is only one, and not usually a main character. (Not in everything, but in lots of them), so if you want romantic fanfiction with more then one interesting person, your options are limited.

 

I have more to say about this topic, but I really need to get some sleep (it's 5am here...).

It's a good topic and interesting that it comes up now (again). Okay, it was posted by a gay woman, but I was really wondering what gay men thought of all us women here on a male gay site. So far, no man has commented. Am curious though.

I have many similar reasons to some of the posters here, why I'm so into gay issues and portrayals etc.. Kind of new to me is the whole gender issue, but it makes absolute sense!

Will post more tomorrow.

First, a description of me: 19 years old, white, straight(ish) female from Canada.

OK, so here goes, and these are just my personal responses, as every woman is different.

Adam's photoshoot: I don't really care. Did the photos look good? Yes. Do I want to sleep with Adam? Hell no! He's gay and I'm not attracted to him. I don't really care about the photoshoot, except to point out that it's just another way for a woman to be used as a prop for a man.

The Vampire Theory: I can kinda see what they are getting at, but I still think this theory is ridiculous, at least for me. I don't want to sleep with gay men. Yes, I can be attracted to them, but that's as far as it goes. In fact, I wish the guy I'm crushing on was gay so it would be "Oh, he doesn't like women" rather than "Oh, he doesn't like me". Then I'd get over him. I am obsessed with the vampires of twilight because they represent an romantic ideal. Edward is my idea of a perfect man, one that I would want to be with. And I certainly hope he isn't gay! 

What do I enjoy more: Gay male pairings. I read heterosexual romance books, because they are generally from the girl's perspective and I can get into her head, but I also read a fair amount of gay romances. On the erotic side, I watch exclusively gay porn.

Why I like male/male pairings: Simple. It's hot. I don't know why, I can't really explain it better than I can explain straight male fascination with lesbians. But I can't deny it turns me on. I think part of it is that I'm attracted to both partners, as it's rare for me to be attracted to a woman. And part of it is also the forbidden aspect. Society has told me that to men are not supposed to kiss each other, so when they do it makes me very excited. It's not about me wanting to be with them, it's about seeing something forbidden. Like having sex in a public place, or with an authority figure, the sense of taboo heightens the erotic pleasure. The best gay porn for me is when I can easily imagine the guys as being straight (which I realize is based on stereotypical characteristics.) This is why I don't really agree with the vampire theory. It's not that I like man on man action becasue the guys are gay, it's because I want them to be straight or bisexual. If I think of them as being gay, it lessens the appeal because they won't be attracted to me. Two gay guys kissing turns me on, but two straight guys kissing? ORGASM! (sorry if that's more graphic than people wanted)

The main reason I'm obsessed with gay stuff: I won't lie and deny that part of the reason is my attraction to m/m pairings. That is part of it. But I also care about girl on girl pairs, and the biggest reason I care about gay stuff is because I'm a straight ally. I want everyone to have the same rights as me, and I care about how LGBT people are represented. It's in the books I read, the stories I write, the movies I watch, the news I pay attention to, the journalism I do, the conversations I have, the causes I support. Gay culture is just part of me, I can't seperate myself from it.

I hope that answers your questions, and I'll be interested to see the results.

 

Had to add this in: I HATE the term "fag hag" absolutely hate it. For one thing, I hate that word used in any context. But it just seems like such an ugly label, not something to be proud of. Kind of gives me the impression that someone who has a lot of gay guy friends is pathetic. I also find it insulting to my integrity. I'm not friends with guys because they're gay, as if they are part of a collection. I'm friends with them because I like them. If more of them happen to be gay it's probably because gay guys are cooler, and I care about them so much. So please don't ever call me a fag hag, because I'm not one.

You too can be saved by the blog! www.savedbytheblog14.blogspot.com 

I may be straight, but I'm not narrow.

to y'all about my own self-analysis. I'm so in my own world sexually - just like the guys who dress as women and consider themselves lesbians, I live in my own head as if i am a gay man. Again, I have theories galore and could detail things for you, but I don't feel it's necessary. I think every queer gets that there are varying degrees of queer- some in the head, some culturally, some physically, some genetically. Me and Kinsey could have a talk about how limitting 1 through 6 is.

 Regardless, I ultimately find it fascinating and encouraging that at this point in my life (I am now 40) the discussion is arising, and it's not just "fag hags" or "fan girls" - it's FAR more complicated and diverse than that. Thank you for bringing it up.

Some of the questions were tricky ... for my favourite TV m/m couple I chose Oliver Fish and Kyle.  Six months ago it would've been Olli and Christian from Verbotene Liebe, but unfortunately their storyline has deteriorated so badly, and the intrusion of Rebecca on the scene, along with two of my other favourite actors leaving, has almost spoilt any love I have for them.

I'm a straight ally, and I like to stay informed for social justice reasons, but I also think gay men/couples/characters are sexy. They turn me on. 

Nothing more to say, really.

It's precisely because I don't have to be involved that I find gay love stories more enjoyable.  With a straight love story, I tend to subconsciously take on the role of the female, and it often makes me feel smaller and weaker.  As some have commented, with two men it's more of a love between equals.  I don't have to internalize the gender roles and misogyny; I can just enjoy the love story. 

I should point out that I would be just as happy to watch girl/girl love scenes, but I have found them to be lacking in both quality and quantity.  Plus, most of them have middling-to-high levels of straight male voyeurism, and don't ring true. 

There are very occasionally love stories between men and women that I enjoy watching.  Jim and Pam on The Office is one.

I am asexual, so being turned on is not a factor.  In fact, there are few sex scenes--of any orientation--that will actually hold my attention... only the ones that are convincing expressions of love.  (Christian and Olli, for instance.)  I think asexuality is also a factor for me in that I have never known what it is like to desire another person, even though it happens quite often that I've been desired by others.  So, a lifetime of that (I'm 30) has given me a feeling of heightened stress when in the company of straight men: I feel I am always the hunted, never the hunter.  To be in the comany (even through movies or through this site) of men who can't be attracted to me is a welcome respite from real life.

Finally, I like to get news/entertainment stories from queer websites for the same reason I find conversations with queer people more interesting than with your average straight person.  Gay and lesbian men and women are usually much stronger, more self-aware, and more open-minded than the majority population and I much prefer to surround myself with those people. 

I'm so honored that you would ask us our thoughts.  Having to sit out the Hot 100 and other polls, it was exciting to see this story and go, "Oh boy!  A poll just for me!" 

AfterElton 4eva...

*Edited to add--For favorite gay couple I put Fer and David on Fisica o Quimica.  They're just so sweet together, and David is so adorable I could eat him up.*

The reason I started reading this website was because of Luke and Noah a hot tv gay couple, so I was pulled in because of the hot factor. But, while I'm hear I also really enjoy hearing about social issues and being informed about things I otherwise wouldn't. Anyway, I can't speak for everybody, but here's an analysis ofmy own feelings.

TOPIC I : So, why are gay pairings hot?

1) No female objectification. If anybody is going to be objectified, it's a man. You've probably heard about the "privileged male gaze". Well, it might as well be a gay man's gaze, so I can get something out of it, too! I like romance and passion, but I am not interested in insecure attractive women being exploited by average looking straight men. (Honestly, I do understand that it's normal for straight men are attracted to beautiful women. But, I'm not attracted to them, and I freaking exist, dammit.)

2) No lame gender roles (usually). I complained in my earlier point that I don't like how men do straight romances. I don't like the way many women do them either. I like love stories, but I do not like most romance stories written by women, because I don't identify with the fiesty female who wishes is attracted to the even fiestier man who wants to tame her. I don't like the power dynamic many people still assume in straght relationships. This doesn't happen with gay couples. Some gay men are feminine, and some aren't. But same-sex love stories are usually just about two people as people. (By the way, I read a gay romance novel by a woman, where one guy was "the girl" - basically a male version of your typical "heroine" - and I couldn't stand it.)

3) More of a good thing. If one cute guy is hot, two are even more so.

4) Diversity. There have always been people who think that there's only one way people can fall in love (or have sex). The truth is, humans are complex diverse creatures, and it's nice to see diversity.

5) Intrinsic and unexplainable.  I think some women just naturally think it's cool when guys kiss while some women just don't. It's the same way some women just naturally prefer big strong alpha men, and others naturally prefer kind, sharing, egalitarian men. (Btw, not saying either prefernce is wrong. As I said, diversity is great.) 

TOPIC II : Being a straight ally

1) Caring about equality. I believe that all people should be treated equally. I believe we should judge each other on how we treat each other. Other things are superficial. I want to be aware of instances where this isn't happening, rather than be oblivious.

2) Otherness. I identify with those gay people, male or female, who feel "other" to society (and obviously not all do). There have been times when I've felt "other" too. I was a geek growing up. Now I'm a hippie. I do quite a few things differently than most people. But, I'm just living my life the way I want to, and I'm not hurting anybody.

3) I become more aware. Being aware of gay issues helps me to be more aware of issues in general. For example, I enjoy reading on afterelton about biases that the media has towards gay characters because it helps me notice biases about gender, age, race, social class, culture, and various things.

4) Feminism. Homophobia against both gay men and lesbians is rooted in ideas that devalue women.  Sexual freedom for both genders, and the value of women in society go hand in hand.

TOPIC III : The following are NOT reasons I like gay subjects

1) Fashion stereotype. I do not want gay men to advise me on fashion. I don't want straight men or other women to advise me on fashion, either. I'll figure that stuff out, or not, myself. I like friends who share the same values as me, and with whome I can talk about life and things I care about.

2) The unatainable. Women are different than men. Just because we lust for somebody doesn't mean we actually want to have sex with them. I may be attracted to Luke Macfarlane and Neil Patrick Harris, but I don't want to turn them straight. I am not interested in dating or sleeping with a gay man. I can fantasize about a couple and identify with both characters, without needing to be in the picture as myself. In my real life, where I am in the picture, I'm a no nonsense girl. The guy I will date is somebody available (no cheating!), emotionally present, and interested in me. If not - next!

So that's the in-depth analysis for me. Some side notes:

I do not think women lusting for vampires is related to women wanting actual gay men. Not a vampire fan myself, but I think for some people vampires represent sexual freedom for women, and some see it as representing sexual freedom for anybody who's not straight. So I can see how there's a correlation but it's not what Esquire assumed. 

As for the Adam Lambert thing, well I was mostly just annoyed that a glassy eyed, annonymous, naked woman was treated like an object, as opposed to a real human being. If I had felt that she was being respected, and if I'd felt some kind of connection between them, the pictures would have been hot. But it would have been equally hot with a naked man.