I’ve thought through my answers and
am finally ready to share my thoughts. Of course, that means I’m mostly just
repeating many other people.I imagine most of you are tired of reading the same thing over and over again, but here I go! First of
all, I must agree that there should have been an all-of-the-above option or the
ability to select multiple answers.Barely
any of the survey questions were “that simple."
The first thing that’s important
for me to stress is there’s a difference between slash/fanfiction/fictional
characters and real people.One’s
fantasy, entertainment.The others aren’t,
and so I draw a pretty clear distinction in my head.When it comes to fiction, the main draw for me is the emotional
aspects, characterization, depth of the storyline.I need to feel emotionally connected to the characters (and this is true for straight characters I write about as well).When I write or read stories or watch TV, I
put myself into the brain of the characters (gay or straight), not – I should
stress – their bodies. Even stories that turn me on are about imagining the two characters together, not imagining either one or both with me. When those
characters are both hot guys, that’s even better.I’ve never understood why media supposedly aimed at straight women
generally show half-naked women all the time, while the guys rarely manage to get their shirts off.I can appreciate a beautiful
woman, but I’m not sexually attracted to them – mathematically speaking, two
good-looking guys are better than one.
I also
think gay characters tend to be better developed.With the restrictions of today's times, writers and actors are still
forced to act around certain issues. People who write straight characters, IMO, get lazy. They don't need to develop the relationship at all; they just need to get them into bed. Additionally,
I think that shows that are willing to thoroughly develop gay characters are
probably written by people with a slightly more modern, intelligent, complex
style and that attracts me as a viewer.I’m tired of clichés and formulaic or procedural shows.
I grew up
in a small city and didn’t know too many out people.Slash and online communities introduced me to “real” people that
I got to know.Since then I’ve lived in
several states in academic communities and therefore have met quite a few gay
people in recent years.Both my online
acquaintances and my real-life friends tend to share my sense of humor, my
interests, and so on.I should stress
that I don’t think these traits are limited to gay people or that all gay
people have them, just that I have been very lucky to know people with similar sensibilities and values.Through my exposure to slash and
my friends, I’ve become very strongly interested and committed to gay rights,
visibility, etc. This is where the slash vs. reality distinction comes in as well - I don't "ship" my friends or wait breathlessly for them to kiss each other for my titillation. It makes me happy to see them happy, but truthfully I feel just as uncomfortable, intrusive or "third-wheel" then as I do with straight friends who engage in PDA when they are with me.
My final
point is to reiterate that I personally want to sleep with guys who are
interested in me (crazy, I know!). It doesn’t matter how attractive I find a
gay guy or even if I have a crush on one, I don’t want to sleep with him.And no, I’m not in denial.I just can make that distinction in my
head. Frankly, I get offended when people of any orientation think they know how I feel better than I do, and think I really am out to convert gay men, force them into the closet so I can be their beard, or anything like that.The distinction I mentioned is something that many men I’ve talked to over the years just don’t understand.To them, attraction or a crush equals at least sexual
desire, if not sexual action.That’s simply not the case for
me and for many women I know.Sometimes, we just like to look, or just like to spend time with people
who are fun and exciting without going any further.Finally, I do always find it kind of odd when people ask women to
explain their interest in slash.It’s just accepted or
expected that (many) straight men find lesbians hot, no explanations necessary.While clearly, my answer is more complex
than “it’s hot,” that is part of it too.But it ties into the idea, I think, that women aren’t supposed to be
interested in sex, and definitely not into “kinky” sex.When women are attracted to something that a
(straight) guy can’t understand, it suddenly becomes weird and something that
requires explanation. That is a bit of a double standard, I feel.
"Finally, I do always find it kind of odd when people ask women to explain their interest in slash.It’s just accepted or expected that (many) straight men find lesbians hot, no explanations necessary.While clearly, my answer is more complex than “it’s hot,” that is part of it too.But it ties into the idea, I think, that women aren’t supposed to be interested in sex, and definitely not into “kinky” sex.When women are attracted to something that a (straight) guy can’t understand, it suddenly becomes weird and something that requires explanation. That is a bit of a double standard, I feel."
Exactly. Thanks. :)
I also think that with m/f and f/f, sometimes writers can obsess over whether the woman/women is/are "politically correct," and it stunts the character development. They're not just letting the character flow, they're checking every last little thing to make sure it's not "offensive." Snore...
I agree with a lot of what has been said here. Especially the fag hag issue. I am not a fag hag. I'm black and my white friends would have a fit if I called them "oreos". It demeans us both.
I guess I am into gay news and stories for two major reasons. As yall already said, two hot men? So much better than one hot man! SO. MUCH. BETTER.
I'm interested in gay rights and issues because I feel like its kind of a common sense thing. You can't pick and choose who you is worthy of having civil rights. I mean I could go on and on, but I'd be preaching to the choir. I keep thinking of what is was like for my relatives during the heyday of the Civil Rights Movement. I can't help but think that people who are anti-gay would be openly racist if it were more socialy acceptable. As a black woman, I enjoy more freedoms than my mom or grandma had when they were my age ( I mean we still have a ways to go, but I'm not gonna go there). I have these rights because blacks had support from a plethora of other groups. I would almost feel like a hypocrtical ingrate if I didn't do my part to help others fight for what they deserve.
It's interesting to me how many women in this thread are both sexually attracted to the thought of two men together and strongly supportive of gay rights as a political cause, and how one seems to spring from the other (or at least, the two reinforce each other). Whereas most (I hesitate to say all) straight men who think of two women together as being sexy never seem to take the leap into supporting lesbian causes. I wonder why that is?
Straight men into "lesbian porn" want images of traditional porn females -- not genuine lesbians. The theory is that for them it's a kind of fantasy three-way. Their observation of two women "going lesbian" leaves room for themselves as a participant-observer. Such men wouldn't know what to do, or even say, to a real lesbian. It's all about THEM -- not anyone's civil rights.
This is a good time to bring a phenom that hasn't been discussed here (or very many other palces) up to now -- Lesbian-Hags.
That is to say gay men who have close lesbian friends and love to hang with lesbians socially. The most famous Lesbian-Hag of the them all was Marcel Proust.
It is a very common mistake to see Proust's women as "men in disguise." That's not the case at all. There are tons of gay and bisexual men in a la recherche du temps perdu. And there are plenty of lesbians as well. "Albertine" may have been partialliy inspired by Albert Agostino -- the straight chauffeur with whom Marcel was besotted -- but she is also modelled after several of the women that he knew who were, like "Albertine," lesbians. For Proust, lesbians are part of the polymorphous-perverse panorama he saw in French society of the bel epoque that he turned into a general rule about human behavior. IOW, sexually we're all over the map, and to claim that heteorseuxality is in any way exclusive or dominant is folly.
One of the greatest loves of my life (now long, long gone alas) was a Lesbian-Hag. I'm writing about him in my memoir-in-progress Raised By Hand Puppets
This is a complex, multi-faceted and I dare say controversial issue so I appeal to gay male readers of After Elton who know what I'm talking about to weigh in.
was the first time I saw two men having sex. Before that, I never thought I could be turned on by that but I was - VERY, lol. Another thing about that show is that it portrayed Gay men as reagular people with loves, dreams, emtions, life dilemas, pains, disappointments and difficulties just like everybody else. That TV series did a great service to gays, imo. What also helped was that the characters were distinct, fully developed and consistent. The cast was great and the actors likable which helped a lot.
I'm a bisexual girl and my interest in queer men (gay or bisexual), m/m slash &etc, is best explained by these reasons:
1. It's hot. It's so hot. I love the feeling of it being kinky and I admit I sort of associate it with repressed desire and conflicting sadomasochistic undercurrents, but in a healthy, very human, way.
2. I like the equality in an m/m relationship. M/F relationships are often so empty, with the man being all domineering and the woman just being boring. What I love about m/m is the way that the men are sort of "emasculating" themselves (I hate that word, but it sort of expresses what I mean). I feel like with an m/m relationship, the men are exposing themselves, being vulnerable, in a really mutual way, which is much hotter to me than the typical straight man who's not interested in a mutually frightening, giving/recieving thing. (I'm being very generalising here about straight men, obviously many are not like that).
3. I guess the idea of the somewhat emotionally broken queer man, but who still has a core of self-worth and equality with his partners, really chimes with how I view my sexual self, and I kind of feel like I can relate to it.
4. Queer men, partly because they've let go of their male dominance and let themselves be vulnerable, are sometimes more complex, open, and emotionally truthful than men who are still locked in heterosexual mores. This makes them more attractive partners.
5. I've always liked some aspects of the way that male friends interact, teasing each other and being comfortable and equal with each other, secure in a certain amount of self-worth. As a young girl, I had a friend who I sort of had that with, but since puberty, it's hard to get men to relate to me so openly and equally. Having a relationship with a man that began like that has always appealed to me.
6. I guess in truth the crux of it is: I feel men in general have more power and freedom in the bedroom, and that's something I sometimes find hard to envisage women having in an m/f relationship. M/M relationships are attractive to me because they can show men sharing power and being vulnerable in the way that a woman sometimes is; and they let me imagine myself having that power and freedom. I can put myself in a man's place and imagine an m/m relationship where I am with a man in a equal way. Even though I might identify with a submissive in an m/m relationship, it feels like I've done that because it's what I want, and I still have a core of self-respect, whereas imaging myself as a woman with a man can make me feel compromised and second-class from the beginning, like it's been just applied to me and I have no say in the situation. Also, it's harder to imagine myself at all dominant in an m/f relationship, whereas if I imagine an m/m relationship, there's much more a feeling of mutual desire and fear and all that good sexy stuff.
I hope that's interesting to your survey and not too rambling.
maybe arneneithel should clarify if she means m/m relationships in real life or m/m relationships as displayed/fantasized about in slash/fiction/yaoi etc
edit: and to clarify that: see m/m fiction as a sort of porn. Those stories are as much realistic about m/m relationships as porn is realistic in terms of how the average man's cocksize is.
Most - not all of course- but most - will be aware of that
Good point. To clarify, I was mainly talking about fantasy, not real life. And yes, I know slash is very porny and unrealistic. It's a fantasy, as is all fiction. If I thought all gay men acted like they do in fiction, I would have a very tenuous hold on reality. :)
For me, "equality in m/m relationships" is certainly one of the draws, at least when it comes to the fantasy - reading the stories, the slash, as opposed to my attraction to real gay men and GLBT issues. But I'm perfectly aware that no relationship is truly "equal"; rather, I think Lily-of-the-valley expressed precisely what the appeal is to me (and of course I can't speak for arneneithel here), in her comment here: http://www.afterelton.com/people/2009/11/survey-women-and-gay-men?page=1,3#comment-99729 .
To summarize: it's not literal equality, it's that what "non-equality" there is in a m/m
relationship doesn't come from the gender of the participants and the roles they're expected to play/fill because of that gender, but rather from their individual personal characteristics and the dynamics of that particular relationship. In a m/f relationship, it's often assumed that the woman will take a particular role solely because she is a woman; even if the man and woman are progressive, liberated, etc., we all carry certain expectations and assumptions about gender roles that are deeply rooted in our society, and probably in our subconscious, even if we consciously reject them.
This is not so in a m/m relationship (which is, possibly, or at least I have always thought, one of the reasons m/m relationships are so threatening to many straight men: the challenge they present to traditional gender roles...but that's a topic for another day! :) ) And the idea of a relationship that is totally free of those assumptions and expectations, in which the power dynamics come from some other source (even though of course the end result can be something equally...unequal), are defined in some other way, can be very appealing when you're someone whose role in your relationship is unavoidably partly - or sometimes largely - defined by your sex.
Actually, I think there is a greater level of equality in male-male relationships than there are in female-female relationships. But I'm only talking about this at extreme levels.
From my observation of same-sex domestic abuse situations, even if one of the male partners is petrified out of his wits about the abuse being visited on his head, he will still have friends who have no problem squaring up to the abuser. The thing about being male is that physical confrontation is always a possibility. I don't know whether this is good or bad, but the support mechanisms for gay men - in my experience - will always involve a friend who is prepared to play bad and nasty. It's not that the two men in the relationship are equal, rather it's a case that other men will step in to make it more equal once they know what's happening.
In lesbian relationships, it seems that the women all around that relationship need to discuss what is happening emotionally before the friends step in and interfere. Again, this is a generality, but it's based on observation.
Yes, it's just from my experience, but I think men (irrespective of sexuality) prefer to see a level playing field and will act if they see their friend treated unfairly. Women seem to want to understand the emotional geography first and are more willing to ascribe value judgements to power relationships.
Clearly, I've not posted this without knowing that there will be a lot of people who will shoot me down in flames, but I thought it should be said out loud.
I should have clarified, sorry, I'm obviously talking about why I like TV shows / fictional stories with gay men. Obviously I know that there's often inequality between men in relationships, but as Jessica said very well (please read her excellent comment), that inequality comes from other sources than gender differences. I don't mean to generalise about male relationships as I know many may be very unequal, and of course each is unique, and I hope you weren't upset by my comment; but perhaps you can understand that as a woman, I sometimes long to be looked at by men without that "alien female" filter on. Even the inequalities in an m/m relationship are different to those in an f/m relationship, and sometimes, in fantasy at least, a change is as good as a rest.
I'm sorry, I think there's great truth to what you say. In the "gay" world (at least MY gay world), there is HUGE expectation of equality among the partners. It's the acknowledged ideal, and I know many many couples who strive for that. With heterosexual couples, the expectation has long been for inequality -- and that was DEFINITELY the ideal, until very recently. Women are socialized to put up with inequality (obviously many do not!). Man are socialized for equality between men (more or less, with, granted, a big element of competition).
Frankly, this is also why gay relationships turn ME on. I remember before I realized I was gay, thinking, "How in the world am I going to find a wife who is completely independent? Because that's what I want -- not a marriage like all the heterosexual ones I've ever seen, where the female is sort of subservient to the man." From a very, very young age, the idea of a woman taking her husband's last name creeped me out, and I NEVER wanted to be with a woman who would do that (not trying to be judgmental of others' choices -- it's just how I felt as an 11 year-old). By the same token, gay men who wanted to sort of fulfil the "wife" role never appealed to me either.
Check out my new fantasy website: TheTorchOnline.com. It's like AfterElton.com for fantasy geeks!
And I Twitter
Thank you :) It sounds like you were a very enlightened 11 year old. I think some men, even gay ones, don't quite realise what it feels like to be a woman in this patriachal world, and how gay men, whatever their problems, do have an equality at least among one another that's sometimes precious hard to find between the sexes. Or rather, you can find it, but when mainstream culture is how it is, it can get oppressive.
I agree with this. This is a slight tangent from the issue whether m/m relationships are more "equal," but...I think one of the (many) appeals for me of spending time with gay men is the feeling - or hope, or maybe sometimes just illusion?? - that they somehow have some better empathy or understanding of a little bit of what it's like to be a woman, in the sense of understanding what it's like to be on a lower rung on the power ladder in our patriarchal society - below the straight men who are at the top of the power structure (even if you're a smart, strong, accomplished woman lucky enough to know liberal, enlightened straight men - that power structure is still deeply entrenched in our society).
Of course gay men *are* still men, and any individual gay man can be just as sexist and...patriarchal?...as a straight man in his attitudes toward women. But as one woman commented earlier, sexism and homophobia are inextricably linked; hatred of things gay often goes hand in hand with hatred, or perhaps more accurately, devaluing, of things female, and many gay men seem to understand this, consciously or not (and arguably, as that earlier commenter said, it makes, or should make, us natural allies). Maybe it's because of this, maybe it's because gender roles are so much less relevant to gay men, maybe both, but when I'm with my gay friends I generally feel much less of that "what it feels like to be a woman in this patriarchal world" feeling, which is really...nice. Freeing.
Oh and, with a gay male relationship, there's no feeling that straight men are objectifying any women. If anything, it's the other way around, because it's playing to female desires. "Lesbian" or straight representations in film or books too often seem to be more geared towards what a man wants, whereas m/m can give women something of their own to lust over. Obviously, it's good for queer men too, but it's not a straight-man-owned thing.
I am closer to forty than thirty, didn't know another girl my age until I was five, and didn't have a close female friend until I was in college. I tend to think of myself as anatomically female, mentally/emotionally androgynous, and sexually straight.
By mentally/emotionally androgynous, I mean that my thoughts and reactions on many topics are not typical of my female friends my age. For example, my two best friends in college and I celebrate our birthdays within six months of each other. When the topic comes up in conversation, they worry about their biological clocks, I think about my 401k.
In relationships with other people, I am much more direct than other women I know. When I want something, I say so. When you've made me angry, I tell you what you did and why it upset me. When I like a guy, I tell him and ask if the feeling is mutual. I like to joke that I would be the perfect date for most guys because I'd rather watch 'Die Hard' than 'Sleepless in Seattle' and I'd sooner have pizza and a beer than coq au vin.
I'm also extremely independent and self-sufficient. When my car dies, my first thought is to pop the hood not flip open my cell phone to call the auto club. When I thought I had an intruder in my apartment, rather than calling the police, I went from room to room carrying a baseball bat as I checked the locks and closed the drapes. (Stupid, I know, and while I don't mean to insult the intelligence of men, it's certainly the kind of thing one would be more likely to expect from a [straight] man).
I don't mean to say that a feminine woman can't be like me or that I don't like to be very feminine once in a while. It's just that I tend to think and act in ways that society has taught us are 'masculine' and I don't ususally 'feel girly.'
All of this is just a very long way of explaining that, at least in the male/male relationships I like to see and read about, the behavior and emotions portrayed reflect the way I would feel and act more accurately. I don't care for relationships in any kind of fiction where one character is more dependent/needy/flighty/naive/etc. than the other. Whether it's a homosexual or heterosexual relationship, I prefer to see two characters on fairly equal footing, each of them needing certain things the other can provide and offering things the other needs. I guess I like to see the kinds of relationships I try to live.
When it comes to the gay men and couples I know personally and love/like, I find the attraction, be it friendship or on one occasion a school-girl crush many years after I was out of school, it comes down to the same things that attract me to my female and straight male friends: common interests and values, intelligence, sense of humor, compassion, empathy, wit, and humanity.
For me, i think it's about mirrorming real-life more accurately.
Because of the obsession with women's appearance, a LOT of women feel self-conscious and inadequate. But the nerdy girl on TV always ends up being stunningly beuatiful and getting the perfect guy. That's jiust not real life for most people. and TV/films are a lot harsher on their same-sex couples. They are judged and treated awfully for something that doesn't or at least shouldn't matter and women can understand that, Also, if a woman is sexually overt she is called a slut. If a gay man is, it's used as proof that all gay men are sexually perverse. there are a lot of parallels between how gay men and women are treated and we can relate to it.
Also, I find the stories told about gay couples to be so heart-breackingly honest. and generally so pain-filled. I'm personally a big fan of angst-ridden stories, I quite often lose interests once the couples are established and out of their will they wont they phase. Again, for me at least that's very-much the stage I'm at in my life and so I find these stories more acurately mirror my own relationships. maybe a few years down the line I'll prefer the happy couples.
For most of your questions either my answer wasn't there or more than one applied, and
the fill-in fields wouldn't work for me. So I'll answer here.
I'm a bisexual woman in my mid 40s.
I've been surrounded by and drawn to gay men my whole life: in part because one of my main interests is in a field wherein the majority of the men are gay, in part because I usually have a lot of common interests with gay men, and in part because they have been more accepting of me and my bisexuality than virtually anyone else (including most lesbians).
But it is primarily because in general, as compared to the majority of other people, especially straight men, I find the majority of gay men more open-minded, more accepting (in general and of me in particular), more sexually aware and confident, more self-aware in general, more fun, more vivacious, less misogynistic, less homophobic, less uptight, less right-wing, less threatened by confident and successful women, and more likely to appreciate and form a relationship with a woman for who she actually is (rather than seeing her as little more than the life-support system for a pussy and a pair of tits). And yes, they usually take better care of themselves than straight men do, too.
Painful as it has sometimes been -- I lost dozens of close friends, acquaintances, and colleagues to AIDS-related illnesses -- I wouldn't trade those relationships for the world.
The sexual side of things is a whole separate issue. Yes, many gay men are very attractive to me (as are people of any gender and orientation who are attractive both inside and out). And gay sex is attractive to me -- there is simply a different dynamic (and different mechanics and different amount of freedom) between men that is unique, hot, and wonderful.
But do I want to have sex with gay men? No, not as things stand since I am a woman, and that doesn't compute. Bisexual men who are truly interested, sure; I'm up for that in what ever combination interests them (a completely bi m/m/f/f fourway is my ideal). And though I love being a woman, should we ever be afforded subsequent lives, it would be interesting to experience life and sex (with both men and women) and the gay community with a cock and a prostate, and from a male perspective.
On to the specifics of your survey: Which TV couple is your favorite?
I love all of these:
Kevin and Scotty, Brothers & Sisters
Captain Jack and Ianto Jones, Torchwood; Captain Jack and the first Captain Jack, Torchwood
Other: Brian and Justin, Queer as Folk; Emmett and George, Queer as Folk
What did you think about Adam Lambert's Details photo shoot?
I thought several of the images were artistically beautiful, especially the near-kiss photo because of the arrangement of all of their angles.
But I understand why some people found this shoot offensive, and with most people other than Adam in this specific context, I'd have thought the same thing.
In this case though, I really doubt that Adam felt forced into doing this shoot or felt put upon by doing it. I wasn't the least bit surprised that he did it either, because from what I've seen of him, he IS extremely comfortable with who he is, and that seems to be a gay man who is occasionally mildly intrigued by women ( though clearly not bi, a Kinsey 5.5 perhaps -- after all, not everyone's a 6 a 3 or a 0) and clearly enjoys challenging perceptions, pushing boundaries, getting people talking, being attractive to both men and women, and being quite revealing of many different aspects of his life and personality.
And I think it's great that this country (at least large portions of it), in part thanks to Adam and his frequently-stated opinion that "sexy is sexy" irrespective of gender and sexuality, is finally accepting that an openly gay man can be a full-on star and sex symbol to all.
Given all that, and that the article was entitled "Why Does Every Woman in America Want to Sleep with Adam Lambert?" so the subject matter made sense in that context, the shoot didn't give me the same feeling it would have in a different context, or out of context if all I knew was that this was a photoshoot with a gay male singer.
Of course, I hope (and fully expect) that at some point he'll do an equally lovely shoot with a man or men when the opportunity arises.
On the flip side, some people are upset because they feel that the shoot objectified the woman. I wasn't particularly, because despite her nudity, the way it was shot he wasn't treating her like a prop, she seemed comfortable, and the shots were staged in a fairly equitable fashion with each of them taking a slightly more dominant role in some photos.
That's my perception of the situation, but of course there's no way for any of us to know for sure how either of them truly felt about it.
Recently Esquire posited the theory that vampires are in such high demand because women want to have sex with gay men. What do you think?
I find this theory completely absurd given what I know of the reactions to both vampires and gay men of myself and other women I know.
I adore gay men (in general) and I often find myself attracted to them, because of the beautiful wonderful people that they are as I described above, but I have no delusions about actually bedding or engaging in romantic relationships with them.
Conversely, I have very little inherent attraction to vampires at all.
When it comes to male/male pairings in movies, TV and books do you usually enjoy them...
... better than heterosexual pairings?
... less than heterosexual pairings?
... about the same.
It entirely depends on the chemistry of the couple and the quality and type of material.
I much prefer gay porn (and true lesbian porn, what little of it there is) to straight porn, because not only are the actors generally much better looking, but the acting is generally far superior. I just can't deal with the bottle-blond bimbos with the enormous fake breasts and claws and even faker moans and screams and the misogynistic attitudes of many of the male actors and directors. I have no problems watching straight porn when it's well made, but it's just so damned hard to find. I have similar feelings about gay/lesbian vs straight erotica and romantic fiction as well.
In regular TV, movies, and books, it's all about the same to me, straight or gay (barring any misogynistic tendencies in the portrayal of straight women or offensively stereotyped portrayals of LBGT people) -- it's more about the quality of the material and the chemistry of the couple.
That said, I do often find it more believable and comfortable seeing same-sex couples together than straight ones, because I find men tend to understand other men, and women other women, much better than either gets the other, both physically and emotionally.
Why do you think that you enjoy male/male pairings?
Yes, two hot guys together is hot. So is two hot women. So is a hot straight couple. Each has its unique dynamic and energy, but I enjoy any hot couple with great chemistry together.
And romantically love is wonderful regardless of who is involved. But I must say I particularly enjoy seeing gay and lesbian romantic relationships finally being represented fairly in the media more and more.
On that whole "unattainable is hot" idea -- unattainable does not equal attractive to me. Neither does forbidden or taboo.
M/M isn't hot to me because it's unattainable or taboo; it's hot because it's hot.
What is the main reason you enjoy news/stories/TV shows/movies about gay men/characters/couples?
It's a combination of several factors:
- I love gay men (they are more my type of people than most in the ways I mentioned above).
- It makes me happy to see gay men, characters, and couples being represented more and more appropriately in the media.
- I'm a bi woman and I like to be in the know about my queer brothers.
- I think gay men/couples/characters are sexy.
I'm a straight married woman and I've pretty much always been turned on by two gay men together. I realised it when I was about 17 and a gay couple was introduced on an Irish soap. The sight of the two men about to kiss just completely did it for me. This was confirmed a couple of years later when the original Queer as Folk was aired.
Some women have mentioned that they like watching two men together as that way they are not watching a woman who they compare themselves to negatively. I can see why some may feel like that, but that isn't me. I'm completely comfortable with who I am and what I look like. I can be turned on by heterosexual sex scenes, lesbian sex scenes or a great big orgy if they are done well. It's the lust, passion or tenderness conveyed that strikes a cord with me.
The main factor I enjoy when watching two men is that it's incredibly manly and I like men. A big manly guy who is all over another big manly guy is just manliness squared, you can almost see the testosterone. I don't want to be in the middle of that, but I like to watch. In the same way that when Buffy and Spike were having hate sex that first time I enjoyed watching it, but I didn't want to be either of them. Maybe it's not the same for all of us, but as far as I'm concerned women can recieve visual stimulation in the same way as men do.
but I am so incredibly impressed by the comments on this thread. I get the impression that there are things being said here by some women that haven't been said in public before. I've been moved to tears more than once by some of the posts. I've also laughed a lot and sometimes just had to read what's been said, stop, think and then needed time to go away and comprehend someone else's reality. I am in awe of the women who come here and have shared their lives. Thank you, again. You really are wonderful people and this has been the most humbling topic that AfterElton has dealt with in the time that I've been reading the site.
Survey answers
I’ve thought through my answers and am finally ready to share my thoughts. Of course, that means I’m mostly just repeating many other people. I imagine most of you are tired of reading the same thing over and over again, but here I go! First of all, I must agree that there should have been an all-of-the-above option or the ability to select multiple answers. Barely any of the survey questions were “that simple."
The first thing that’s important for me to stress is there’s a difference between slash/fanfiction/fictional characters and real people. One’s fantasy, entertainment. The others aren’t, and so I draw a pretty clear distinction in my head. When it comes to fiction, the main draw for me is the emotional aspects, characterization, depth of the storyline. I need to feel emotionally connected to the characters (and this is true for straight characters I write about as well). When I write or read stories or watch TV, I put myself into the brain of the characters (gay or straight), not – I should stress – their bodies. Even stories that turn me on are about imagining the two characters together, not imagining either one or both with me. When those characters are both hot guys, that’s even better. I’ve never understood why media supposedly aimed at straight women generally show half-naked women all the time, while the guys rarely manage to get their shirts off. I can appreciate a beautiful woman, but I’m not sexually attracted to them – mathematically speaking, two good-looking guys are better than one.
I also think gay characters tend to be better developed. With the restrictions of today's times, writers and actors are still forced to act around certain issues. People who write straight characters, IMO, get lazy. They don't need to develop the relationship at all; they just need to get them into bed. Additionally, I think that shows that are willing to thoroughly develop gay characters are probably written by people with a slightly more modern, intelligent, complex style and that attracts me as a viewer. I’m tired of clichés and formulaic or procedural shows.
I grew up in a small city and didn’t know too many out people. Slash and online communities introduced me to “real” people that I got to know. Since then I’ve lived in several states in academic communities and therefore have met quite a few gay people in recent years. Both my online acquaintances and my real-life friends tend to share my sense of humor, my interests, and so on. I should stress that I don’t think these traits are limited to gay people or that all gay people have them, just that I have been very lucky to know people with similar sensibilities and values. Through my exposure to slash and my friends, I’ve become very strongly interested and committed to gay rights, visibility, etc. This is where the slash vs. reality distinction comes in as well - I don't "ship" my friends or wait breathlessly for them to kiss each other for my titillation. It makes me happy to see them happy, but truthfully I feel just as uncomfortable, intrusive or "third-wheel" then as I do with straight friends who engage in PDA when they are with me.
My final point is to reiterate that I personally want to sleep with guys who are interested in me (crazy, I know!). It doesn’t matter how attractive I find a gay guy or even if I have a crush on one, I don’t want to sleep with him. And no, I’m not in denial. I just can make that distinction in my head. Frankly, I get offended when people of any orientation think they know how I feel better than I do, and think I really am out to convert gay men, force them into the closet so I can be their beard, or anything like that. The distinction I mentioned is something that many men I’ve talked to over the years just don’t understand. To them, attraction or a crush equals at least sexual desire, if not sexual action. That’s simply not the case for me and for many women I know. Sometimes, we just like to look, or just like to spend time with people who are fun and exciting without going any further. Finally, I do always find it kind of odd when people ask women to explain their interest in slash. It’s just accepted or expected that (many) straight men find lesbians hot, no explanations necessary. While clearly, my answer is more complex than “it’s hot,” that is part of it too. But it ties into the idea, I think, that women aren’t supposed to be interested in sex, and definitely not into “kinky” sex. When women are attracted to something that a (straight) guy can’t understand, it suddenly becomes weird and something that requires explanation. That is a bit of a double standard, I feel.
"Finally, I do always find
"Finally, I do always find it kind of odd when people ask women to explain their interest in slash. It’s just accepted or expected that (many) straight men find lesbians hot, no explanations necessary. While clearly, my answer is more complex than “it’s hot,” that is part of it too. But it ties into the idea, I think, that women aren’t supposed to be interested in sex, and definitely not into “kinky” sex. When women are attracted to something that a (straight) guy can’t understand, it suddenly becomes weird and something that requires explanation. That is a bit of a double standard, I feel."
Exactly. Thanks. :)
I also think that with m/f and f/f, sometimes writers can obsess over whether the woman/women is/are "politically correct," and it stunts the character development. They're not just letting the character flow, they're checking every last little thing to make sure it's not "offensive." Snore...
I'm not alone!!!!!
I agree with a lot of what has been said here. Especially the fag hag issue. I am not a fag hag. I'm black and my white friends would have a fit if I called them "oreos". It demeans us both.
I guess I am into gay news and stories for two major reasons. As yall already said, two hot men? So much better than one hot man! SO. MUCH. BETTER.
I'm interested in gay rights and issues because I feel like its kind of a common sense thing. You can't pick and choose who you is worthy of having civil rights. I mean I could go on and on, but I'd be preaching to the choir. I keep thinking of what is was like for my relatives during the heyday of the Civil Rights Movement. I can't help but think that people who are anti-gay would be openly racist if it were more socialy acceptable. As a black woman, I enjoy more freedoms than my mom or grandma had when they were my age ( I mean we still have a ways to go, but I'm not gonna go there). I have these rights because blacks had support from a plethora of other groups. I would almost feel like a hypocrtical ingrate if I didn't do my part to help others fight for what they deserve.
An observation
Because of the traditional power dynamic -- that's why
Straight men into "lesbian porn" want images of traditional porn females -- not genuine lesbians. The theory is that for them it's a kind of fantasy three-way. Their observation of two women "going lesbian" leaves room for themselves as a participant-observer. Such men wouldn't know what to do, or even say, to a real lesbian. It's all about THEM -- not anyone's civil rights.
This is a good time to bring a phenom that hasn't been discussed here (or very many other palces) up to now -- Lesbian-Hags.
That is to say gay men who have close lesbian friends and love to hang with lesbians socially. The most famous Lesbian-Hag of the them all was Marcel Proust.
It is a very common mistake to see Proust's women as "men in disguise." That's not the case at all. There are tons of gay and bisexual men in a la recherche du temps perdu. And there are plenty of lesbians as well. "Albertine" may have been partialliy inspired by Albert Agostino -- the straight chauffeur with whom Marcel was besotted -- but she is also modelled after several of the women that he knew who were, like "Albertine," lesbians. For Proust, lesbians are part of the polymorphous-perverse panorama he saw in French society of the bel epoque that he turned into a general rule about human behavior. IOW, sexually we're all over the map, and to claim that heteorseuxality is in any way exclusive or dominant is folly.
One of the greatest loves of my life (now long, long gone alas) was a Lesbian-Hag. I'm writing about him in my memoir-in-progress Raised By Hand Puppets
This is a complex, multi-faceted and I dare say controversial issue so I appeal to gay male readers of After Elton who know what I'm talking about to weigh in.
For me Queer as Folk
was the first time I saw two men having sex. Before that, I never thought I could be turned on by that but I was - VERY, lol. Another thing about that show is that it portrayed Gay men as reagular people with loves, dreams, emtions, life dilemas, pains, disappointments and difficulties just like everybody else. That TV series did a great service to gays, imo. What also helped was that the characters were distinct, fully developed and consistent. The cast was great and the actors likable which helped a lot.
I'm a bisexual girl and my
I'm a bisexual girl and my interest in queer men (gay or bisexual), m/m slash &etc, is best explained by these reasons:
1. It's hot. It's so hot. I love the feeling of it being kinky and I admit I sort of associate it with repressed desire and conflicting sadomasochistic undercurrents, but in a healthy, very human, way.
2. I like the equality in an m/m relationship. M/F relationships are often so empty, with the man being all domineering and the woman just being boring. What I love about m/m is the way that the men are sort of "emasculating" themselves (I hate that word, but it sort of expresses what I mean). I feel like with an m/m relationship, the men are exposing themselves, being vulnerable, in a really mutual way, which is much hotter to me than the typical straight man who's not interested in a mutually frightening, giving/recieving thing. (I'm being very generalising here about straight men, obviously many are not like that).
3. I guess the idea of the somewhat emotionally broken queer man, but who still has a core of self-worth and equality with his partners, really chimes with how I view my sexual self, and I kind of feel like I can relate to it.
4. Queer men, partly because they've let go of their male dominance and let themselves be vulnerable, are sometimes more complex, open, and emotionally truthful than men who are still locked in heterosexual mores. This makes them more attractive partners.
5. I've always liked some aspects of the way that male friends interact, teasing each other and being comfortable and equal with each other, secure in a certain amount of self-worth. As a young girl, I had a friend who I sort of had that with, but since puberty, it's hard to get men to relate to me so openly and equally. Having a relationship with a man that began like that has always appealed to me.
6. I guess in truth the crux of it is: I feel men in general have more power and freedom in the bedroom, and that's something I sometimes find hard to envisage women having in an m/f relationship. M/M relationships are attractive to me because they can show men sharing power and being vulnerable in the way that a woman sometimes is; and they let me imagine myself having that power and freedom. I can put myself in a man's place and imagine an m/m relationship where I am with a man in a equal way. Even though I might identify with a submissive in an m/m relationship, it feels like I've done that because it's what I want, and I still have a core of self-respect, whereas imaging myself as a woman with a man can make me feel compromised and second-class from the beginning, like it's been just applied to me and I have no say in the situation. Also, it's harder to imagine myself at all dominant in an m/f relationship, whereas if I imagine an m/m relationship, there's much more a feeling of mutual desire and fear and all that good sexy stuff.
I hope that's interesting to your survey and not too rambling.
AS IF!
"I like the equality in an m/m relationship."
Really? Never experienced that in all my 62 years and zillion and a half men.
"M/F relationships are often so empty, with the man being all domineering and the woman just being boring."
And this doesn't happen with M/M? LOL!
"What I love about m/m is the way that the men are sort of "emasculating" themselves (I hate that word, but it sort of expresses what I mean)."
That's what it may look like from a distance. Up close is a whole 'nother story dear.
talking about real life or fantasy?
maybe arneneithel should clarify if she means m/m relationships in real life or m/m relationships as displayed/fantasized about in slash/fiction/yaoi etc
edit: and to clarify that: see m/m fiction as a sort of porn. Those stories are as much realistic about m/m relationships as porn is realistic in terms of how the average man's cocksize is.
Most - not all of course- but most - will be aware of that
Good point. To clarify, I
Equality
For me, "equality in m/m relationships" is certainly one of the draws, at least when it comes to the fantasy - reading the stories, the slash, as opposed to my attraction to real gay men and GLBT issues. But I'm perfectly aware that no relationship is truly "equal"; rather, I think Lily-of-the-valley expressed precisely what the appeal is to me (and of course I can't speak for arneneithel here), in her comment here: http://www.afterelton.com/people/2009/11/survey-women-and-gay-men?page=1,3#comment-99729 .
To summarize: it's not literal equality, it's that what "non-equality" there is in a m/m relationship doesn't come from the gender of the participants and the roles they're expected to play/fill because of that gender, but rather from their individual personal characteristics and the dynamics of that particular relationship. In a m/f relationship, it's often assumed that the woman will take a particular role solely because she is a woman; even if the man and woman are progressive, liberated, etc., we all carry certain expectations and assumptions about gender roles that are deeply rooted in our society, and probably in our subconscious, even if we consciously reject them.
This is not so in a m/m relationship (which is, possibly, or at least I have always thought, one of the reasons m/m relationships are so threatening to many straight men: the challenge they present to traditional gender roles...but that's a topic for another day! :) ) And the idea of a relationship that is totally free of those assumptions and expectations, in which the power dynamics come from some other source (even though of course the end result can be something equally...unequal), are defined in some other way, can be very appealing when you're someone whose role in your relationship is unavoidably partly - or sometimes largely - defined by your sex.
A different way
Actually, I think there is a greater level of equality in male-male relationships than there are in female-female relationships. But I'm only talking about this at extreme levels.
From my observation of same-sex domestic abuse situations, even if one of the male partners is petrified out of his wits about the abuse being visited on his head, he will still have friends who have no problem squaring up to the abuser. The thing about being male is that physical confrontation is always a possibility. I don't know whether this is good or bad, but the support mechanisms for gay men - in my experience - will always involve a friend who is prepared to play bad and nasty. It's not that the two men in the relationship are equal, rather it's a case that other men will step in to make it more equal once they know what's happening.
In lesbian relationships, it seems that the women all around that relationship need to discuss what is happening emotionally before the friends step in and interfere. Again, this is a generality, but it's based on observation.
Yes, it's just from my experience, but I think men (irrespective of sexuality) prefer to see a level playing field and will act if they see their friend treated unfairly. Women seem to want to understand the emotional geography first and are more willing to ascribe value judgements to power relationships.
Clearly, I've not posted this without knowing that there will be a lot of people who will shoot me down in flames, but I thought it should be said out loud.
I completely agree. Thank
to clarify
I should have clarified, sorry, I'm obviously talking about why I like TV shows / fictional stories with gay men. Obviously I know that there's often inequality between men in relationships, but as Jessica said very well (please read her excellent comment), that inequality comes from other sources than gender differences. I don't mean to generalise about male relationships as I know many may be very unequal, and of course each is unique, and I hope you weren't upset by my comment; but perhaps you can understand that as a woman, I sometimes long to be looked at by men without that "alien female" filter on. Even the inequalities in an m/m relationship are different to those in an f/m relationship, and sometimes, in fantasy at least, a change is as good as a rest.
An EXPECTATION of equality
Frankly, this is also why gay relationships turn ME on. I remember before I realized I was gay, thinking, "How in the world am I going to find a wife who is completely independent? Because that's what I want -- not a marriage like all the heterosexual ones I've ever seen, where the female is sort of subservient to the man." From a very, very young age, the idea of a woman taking her husband's last name creeped me out, and I NEVER wanted to be with a woman who would do that (not trying to be judgmental of others' choices -- it's just how I felt as an 11 year-old). By the same token, gay men who wanted to sort of fulfil the "wife" role never appealed to me either.Check out my new fantasy website: TheTorchOnline.com. It's like AfterElton.com for fantasy geeks! And I Twitter
Thank you :) It sounds like
I agree with this. This is a
I agree with this. This is a slight tangent from the issue whether m/m relationships are more "equal," but...I think one of the (many) appeals for me of spending time with gay men is the feeling - or hope, or maybe sometimes just illusion?? - that they somehow have some better empathy or understanding of a little bit of what it's like to be a woman, in the sense of understanding what it's like to be on a lower rung on the power ladder in our patriarchal society - below the straight men who are at the top of the power structure (even if you're a smart, strong, accomplished woman lucky enough to know liberal, enlightened straight men - that power structure is still deeply entrenched in our society).
Of course gay men *are* still men, and any individual gay man can be just as sexist and...patriarchal?...as a straight man in his attitudes toward women. But as one woman commented earlier, sexism and homophobia are inextricably linked; hatred of things gay often goes hand in hand with hatred, or perhaps more accurately, devaluing, of things female, and many gay men seem to understand this, consciously or not (and arguably, as that earlier commenter said, it makes, or should make, us natural allies). Maybe it's because of this, maybe it's because gender roles are so much less relevant to gay men, maybe both, but when I'm with my gay friends I generally feel much less of that "what it feels like to be a woman in this patriarchal world" feeling, which is really...nice. Freeing.
Oh and, with a gay male
More like me
I am closer to forty than thirty, didn't know another girl my age until I was five, and didn't have a close female friend until I was in college. I tend to think of myself as anatomically female, mentally/emotionally androgynous, and sexually straight.
By mentally/emotionally androgynous, I mean that my thoughts and reactions on many topics are not typical of my female friends my age. For example, my two best friends in college and I celebrate our birthdays within six months of each other. When the topic comes up in conversation, they worry about their biological clocks, I think about my 401k.
In relationships with other people, I am much more direct than other women I know. When I want something, I say so. When you've made me angry, I tell you what you did and why it upset me. When I like a guy, I tell him and ask if the feeling is mutual. I like to joke that I would be the perfect date for most guys because I'd rather watch 'Die Hard' than 'Sleepless in Seattle' and I'd sooner have pizza and a beer than coq au vin.
I'm also extremely independent and self-sufficient. When my car dies, my first thought is to pop the hood not flip open my cell phone to call the auto club. When I thought I had an intruder in my apartment, rather than calling the police, I went from room to room carrying a baseball bat as I checked the locks and closed the drapes. (Stupid, I know, and while I don't mean to insult the intelligence of men, it's certainly the kind of thing one would be more likely to expect from a [straight] man).
I don't mean to say that a feminine woman can't be like me or that I don't like to be very feminine once in a while. It's just that I tend to think and act in ways that society has taught us are 'masculine' and I don't ususally 'feel girly.'
All of this is just a very long way of explaining that, at least in the male/male relationships I like to see and read about, the behavior and emotions portrayed reflect the way I would feel and act more accurately. I don't care for relationships in any kind of fiction where one character is more dependent/needy/flighty/naive/etc. than the other. Whether it's a homosexual or heterosexual relationship, I prefer to see two characters on fairly equal footing, each of them needing certain things the other can provide and offering things the other needs. I guess I like to see the kinds of relationships I try to live.
When it comes to the gay men and couples I know personally and love/like, I find the attraction, be it friendship or on one occasion a school-girl crush many years after I was out of school, it comes down to the same things that attract me to my female and straight male friends: common interests and values, intelligence, sense of humor, compassion, empathy, wit, and humanity.
For me, i think it's about
For me, i think it's about mirrorming real-life more accurately.
Because of the obsession with women's appearance, a LOT of women feel self-conscious and inadequate. But the nerdy girl on TV always ends up being stunningly beuatiful and getting the perfect guy. That's jiust not real life for most people. and TV/films are a lot harsher on their same-sex couples. They are judged and treated awfully for something that doesn't or at least shouldn't matter and women can understand that, Also, if a woman is sexually overt she is called a slut. If a gay man is, it's used as proof that all gay men are sexually perverse. there are a lot of parallels between how gay men and women are treated and we can relate to it.
Also, I find the stories told about gay couples to be so heart-breackingly honest. and generally so pain-filled. I'm personally a big fan of angst-ridden stories, I quite often lose interests once the couples are established and out of their will they wont they phase. Again, for me at least that's very-much the stage I'm at in my life and so I find these stories more acurately mirror my own relationships. maybe a few years down the line I'll prefer the happy couples.
To more accurately answer...
For most of your questions either my answer wasn't there or more than one applied, and
the fill-in fields wouldn't work for me. So I'll answer here.
I'm a bisexual woman in my mid 40s.
I've been surrounded by and drawn to gay men my whole life: in part because one of my main interests is in a field wherein the majority of the men are gay, in part because I usually have a lot of common interests with gay men, and in part because they have been more accepting of me and my bisexuality than virtually anyone else (including most lesbians).
But it is primarily because in general, as compared to the majority of other people, especially straight men, I find the majority of gay men more open-minded, more accepting (in general and of me in particular), more sexually aware and confident, more self-aware in general, more fun, more vivacious, less misogynistic, less homophobic, less uptight, less right-wing, less threatened by confident and successful women, and more likely to appreciate and form a relationship with a woman for who she actually is (rather than seeing her as little more than the life-support system for a pussy and a pair of tits). And yes, they usually take better care of themselves than straight men do, too.
Painful as it has sometimes been -- I lost dozens of close friends, acquaintances, and colleagues to AIDS-related illnesses -- I wouldn't trade those relationships for the world.
The sexual side of things is a whole separate issue. Yes, many gay men are very attractive to me (as are people of any gender and orientation who are attractive both inside and out). And gay sex is attractive to me -- there is simply a different dynamic (and different mechanics and different amount of freedom) between men that is unique, hot, and wonderful.
But do I want to have sex with gay men? No, not as things stand since I am a woman, and that doesn't compute. Bisexual men who are truly interested, sure; I'm up for that in what ever combination interests them (a completely bi m/m/f/f fourway is my ideal). And though I love being a woman, should we ever be afforded subsequent lives, it would be interesting to experience life and sex (with both men and women) and the gay community with a cock and a prostate, and from a male perspective.
On to the specifics of your survey:
Which TV couple is your favorite?
I love all of these:
Kevin and Scotty, Brothers & Sisters
Captain Jack and Ianto Jones, Torchwood; Captain Jack and the first Captain Jack, Torchwood
Other: Brian and Justin, Queer as Folk; Emmett and George, Queer as Folk
What did you think about Adam Lambert's Details photo shoot?
I thought several of the images were artistically beautiful, especially the near-kiss photo because of the arrangement of all of their angles.
But I understand why some people found this shoot offensive, and with most people other than Adam in this specific context, I'd have thought the same thing.
In this case though, I really doubt that Adam felt forced into doing this shoot or felt put upon by doing it. I wasn't the least bit surprised that he did it either, because from what I've seen of him, he IS extremely comfortable with who he is, and that seems to be a gay man who is occasionally mildly intrigued by women ( though clearly not bi, a Kinsey 5.5 perhaps -- after all, not everyone's a 6 a 3 or a 0) and clearly enjoys challenging perceptions, pushing boundaries, getting people talking, being attractive to both men and women, and being quite revealing of many different aspects of his life and personality.
And I think it's great that this country (at least large portions of it), in part thanks to Adam and his frequently-stated opinion that "sexy is sexy" irrespective of gender and sexuality, is finally accepting that an openly gay man can be a full-on star and sex symbol to all.
Given all that, and that the article was entitled "Why Does Every Woman in America Want to Sleep with Adam Lambert?" so the subject matter made sense in that context, the shoot didn't give me the same feeling it would have in a different context, or out of context if all I knew was that this was a photoshoot with a gay male singer.
Of course, I hope (and fully expect) that at some point he'll do an equally lovely shoot with a man or men when the opportunity arises.
On the flip side, some people are upset because they feel that the shoot objectified the woman. I wasn't particularly, because despite her nudity, the way it was shot he wasn't treating her like a prop, she seemed comfortable, and the shots were staged in a fairly equitable fashion with each of them taking a slightly more dominant role in some photos.
That's my perception of the situation, but of course there's no way for any of us to know for sure how either of them truly felt about it.
Recently Esquire posited the theory that vampires are in such high demand because women want to have sex with gay men. What do you think?
I find this theory completely absurd given what I know of the reactions to both vampires and gay men of myself and other women I know.
I adore gay men (in general) and I often find myself attracted to them, because of the beautiful wonderful people that they are as I described above, but I have no delusions about actually bedding or engaging in romantic relationships with them.
Conversely, I have very little inherent attraction to vampires at all.
When it comes to male/male pairings in movies, TV and books do you usually enjoy them...
... better than heterosexual pairings?
... less than heterosexual pairings?
... about the same.
It entirely depends on the chemistry of the couple and the quality and type of material.
I much prefer gay porn (and true lesbian porn, what little of it there is) to straight porn, because not only are the actors generally much better looking, but the acting is generally far superior. I just can't deal with the bottle-blond bimbos with the enormous fake breasts and claws and even faker moans and screams and the misogynistic attitudes of many of the male actors and directors. I have no problems watching straight porn when it's well made, but it's just so damned hard to find. I have similar feelings about gay/lesbian vs straight erotica and romantic fiction as well.
In regular TV, movies, and books, it's all about the same to me, straight or gay (barring any misogynistic tendencies in the portrayal of straight women or offensively stereotyped portrayals of LBGT people) -- it's more about the quality of the material and the chemistry of the couple.
That said, I do often find it more believable and comfortable seeing same-sex couples together than straight ones, because I find men tend to understand other men, and women other women, much better than either gets the other, both physically and emotionally.
Why do you think that you enjoy male/male pairings?
Yes, two hot guys together is hot. So is two hot women. So is a hot straight couple. Each has its unique dynamic and energy, but I enjoy any hot couple with great chemistry together.
And romantically love is wonderful regardless of who is involved. But I must say I particularly enjoy seeing gay and lesbian romantic relationships finally being represented fairly in the media more and more.
On that whole "unattainable is hot" idea -- unattainable does not equal attractive to me. Neither does forbidden or taboo.
M/M isn't hot to me because it's unattainable or taboo; it's hot because it's hot.
What is the main reason you enjoy news/stories/TV shows/movies about gay men/characters/couples?
It's a combination of several factors:
- I love gay men (they are more my type of people than most in the ways I mentioned above).
- It makes me happy to see gay men, characters, and couples being represented more and more appropriately in the media.
- I'm a bi woman and I like to be in the know about my queer brothers.
- I think gay men/couples/characters are sexy.
I'm a straight married woman
I'm a straight married woman and I've pretty much always been turned on by two gay men together. I realised it when I was about 17 and a gay couple was introduced on an Irish soap. The sight of the two men about to kiss just completely did it for me. This was confirmed a couple of years later when the original Queer as Folk was aired.
Some women have mentioned that they like watching two men together as that way they are not watching a woman who they compare themselves to negatively. I can see why some may feel like that, but that isn't me. I'm completely comfortable with who I am and what I look like. I can be turned on by heterosexual sex scenes, lesbian sex scenes or a great big orgy if they are done well. It's the lust, passion or tenderness conveyed that strikes a cord with me.
The main factor I enjoy when watching two men is that it's incredibly manly and I like men. A big manly guy who is all over another big manly guy is just manliness squared, you can almost see the testosterone. I don't want to be in the middle of that, but I like to watch. In the same way that when Buffy and Spike were having hate sex that first time I enjoyed watching it, but I didn't want to be either of them. Maybe it's not the same for all of us, but as far as I'm concerned women can recieve visual stimulation in the same way as men do.
well, especially when it
well, especially when it comes to porn...
Some women have mentioned that they like watching two men together as that way they are not watching a woman who they compare themselves to negatively
...it's quite the other way round for me. I can't identify with the women because I definitely do Not want to look like them in any way ever ;-)
(am only slightly exaggerating here :D )
I know I've said this before...